Israel/Lebanon/Hezbollah Crisis Thread was the "Is Israel right" thread

Bookee

metrovelvet wrote:

but there is no "official" confirmation as of yet.

I couldn't look at the link, but the giveaway for me was when the IDF merely stated that all their weapons complied - ie, wouldn't deny the use of Phos.

Bookee

That's one hell of an ugly forum

I registered, probably just wanted to stir it up a little for them. But can't be bothered now, as the views and comments are SO malicious. And THEY say the Arabs are "animals"....
I have alot of experience with Jews, from Elderly to kids, and haven't met any that I've liked, yet.
They make themselves out to be SO religious, but that Forum is truly sinful !
Obviously, just my opionion only !

Sgt. Sensible

The Saint wrote:

http://www.israelforum.com/

Try this. Be warned though. Most posters here are very right wing, bordering on racist, and not terribly open to dissenting views. Most people and the worst here are American Jews also with Israelis and some Europeans. I just got frustrated any time I tried to participate on this board so I don't ever bother anymore.

Not a very good idea to start board wars imo.

Bookee

Bookee wrote:

I have alot of experience with Jews, from Elderly to kids, and haven't met any that I've liked, yet.

Maybe the nice ones don't dig hanging around with you?

Anyway, rest assured, there are plenty of nice Jews. Any suggestion otherwise is just plain old anti-semitism, no matter what way it's dressed up in terms of concern for the Palestinians. There are also plenty of nice Arabs and a few who would happily cut your throat. However if I only found I was meeting the latter I would worry about the company I keep, and certainly wouldn't draw any conclusions from it.

And though the views on other sites may of course be disturbing, I think a boards war is not a pleasant prospect.

Bookee

Deleted User wrote:

Maybe the nice ones don't dig hanging around with you?

From my experience the nice ones/not so nice ones don't dig hanging around with anyone, who's not 'in the club'........ Suits me JUST fine! I've plenty of multicultural friends who do "dig"..... !
Just my own personal opinion, as I believe I previously mentioned; anyway let's not dwell on ME.....

Sgt. Sensible

There are more photos here, mainly for the benefit of those who support this sort of thing.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12011945@N00/sets/72157594202020048/

Manic Moran

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

There are more photos here, mainly for the benefit of those who support this sort of thing.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12011945@N00/sets/72157594202020048/

Some people seem to be enjoying it...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12011945@N00/194174137/in/set-72157594202020048/

NTM

Hobbes

Manic Moran wrote:

Some people seem to be enjoying it...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12011945@N00/194174137/in/set-72157594202020048/

NTM

I'm wondering if that picture is fake? There is no context to determine if it is an evacuation ship.

spanner

the average Israeli doesnt seem to strike me as facist or Nazi, they dont seem to have the superiority complex which Germans had before the war. I think they belive that their nation is under attack and they will support their troops and government in what they see as defending themselves. I think the actions of their government are completely wrong and needs to stop to find another solution but I do think that the average Israeli wants to live in peace in their own homeland, I dont think they think they are a master race that will rule arab people

Sgt. Sensible

Hobbes wrote:

I'm wondering if that picture is fake? There is no context to determine if it is an evacuation ship.

Nevertheless, it's an odd one to single out and make an asinine comment on.

sovtek

Hobbes wrote:

I'm wondering if that picture is fake? There is no context to determine if it is an evacuation ship.

I read that the US evacuation of Lebanon is a complete disaster...people have to agree that they will pay for the cruise ships that were dispatched to evacuate.
A few days ago Condi, out of the goodness of her heart, changed this policy.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0718-09.htm

Sgt. Sensible

Israel is using cluster bombs.

Cluster bombs are a notoriously indiscriminate form of ordinance. What was that about not deliberately targetting civilians?

Bookee

Yea, just read that too on Al Jazeera...! Probably more "dirty" arms on the way from the US

banaman

Its important to note that it is not only non-Jews who are horrified and deeply critical of Israeli policy, as usual or biased, compliant and lazy media only take the stories as handed to them.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0724-21.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0724-20.htm

redspider

The Saint wrote:

http://www.israelforum.com/
Try this. Be warned though. Most posters here are very right wing, bordering on racist, and not terribly open to dissenting views.

Thanks for that link. But as you say, its probably a waste of time to try to 'convert' or discuss rationally in these forums if people are 'biased' or 'blind'. After a quik browse, not everyone is. There are several people who are new trial members on the site.

Anyway, thinking aloud, trying to convince people through boards is a slow process, and one that wont work in terms of a solution, but its an interesting debate to have nonetheless. A lot of perseverance though is needed.


Here is an interesting item to listen to, the former head of Mossad:
http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/2160013.smil

He calls it as it is, callous perhaps to some extent, but his analysis is realistic from the Israeli side.

Redspider

redspider

banaman wrote:

Its important to note that it is not only non-Jews who are horrified and deeply critical of Israeli policy, as usual or biased, compliant and lazy media only take the stories as handed to them.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0724-21.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0724-20.htm

Whilst there are some interesting points to his article(s), I think his prediction that "once Iran is hit with bunker-busting limited nuclear weapons, that China and Russia will be forced to give up theirs" is unlikely to happen. This is a huge stretch of the imagination and the Prof, whilst perhaps being a brain at Physics may not be the best geo-politcal analyst the world has ever seen.

Its true that the US and Iran "dont get on", but the key to this is Oil and the US interest in controlling the supply of a key resource. Ironically, the way things are working out in Iraq with the lack of a quick and succesful solution there has resulted in the Oil price raising to an elevated level and staying there. The supply is also not guaranteed although the US can clearly control it to some degree in Iraq.

Redspider

Bookee

redspider wrote:

Oil
Redspider

Keyword "OIL", and Lebanon don't have any ... ! Do they George ?:rolleyes:

Hobbes

redspider wrote:

Whilst there are some interesting points to his article(s), I think his prediction that "once Iran is hit with bunker-busting limited nuclear weapons, that China and Russia will be forced to give up theirs" is unlikely to happen.

Dropping nukes on a country to stop it building nukes. I can see how that will go down well.

Manic Moran

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

Nevertheless, it's an odd one to single out and make an asinine comment on.

Well, I could have made asinine comments on the other ones, but I personally think it would have been in bad taste.

NTM

Sgt. Sensible

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

Cluster bombs are a notoriously indiscriminate form of ordinance. What was that about not deliberately targetting civilians?

Didn't buy that one either. If they are trying to avoid civilians they must be terrible shots. On the other hand, they are dealing with an enemy that targets civilians and will fire rockets into cities without even going through the pretence that they were trying to specify targets - in fact I understand some Hezbollah rockets landed in the Arab areas of Haifa.

A Dub in Glasgo

The slaughter continues and the world does nothing. The Israelis had this planned for months, now they are occupying another country.

Manic Moran

Maybe they ran out of precision weapons, and are waiting for the next delivery?

NTM

Has anyone seen any confirmations that Hezbollah are stopping civilians from leaving areas that the Israeli's have anounced they're going to attack, or are currently attacking? I've read alot about it in the Israeli Blogs, but haven't found any media reports to support it.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The slaughter continues and the world does nothing. The Israelis had this planned for months, now they are occupying another country.

I wasn't aware that they had occupied the country. You mean to say they've conquered the whole region already? /sarcasm.

Can't see why they would want to occupy Lebanon, considering it provides nothing for them, and increases the area that their military has to cover, decreasing their ability to defend Israel itself. I also can't see how actually occupying Lebanon satisfies the cost to their economy to keep this war going... Wars are costly after all. :rolleyes:

You've made quite a leap from their first few step to destroy Hezbollah to this.

Carry

Deleted User wrote:

I wasn't aware that they had occupied the country. You mean to say they've conquered the whole region already? /sarcasm.

Can't see why they would want to occupy Lebanon, considering it provides nothing for them, and increases the area that their military has to cover, decreasing their ability to defend Israel itself. I also can't see how actually occupying Lebanon satisfies the cost to their economy to keep this war going... Wars are costly after all. :rolleyes:

You've made quite a leap from their first few step to destroy Hezbollah to this.

They don't want to occupy the whole country of Lebanon - so far. But they do want to create a puffer zone, a kind of no-go-area which is easier to control than a definite border, at the cost of Lebanon, of course. Not that they considered to create a puffer zone on the area of Israel.
And it's not alone about Hezbollah.
Hezbollah - whatever their intention might be and whatever opinion anyone has about their actions and not to be confused with the country of Lebanon - is just the scapegoat, the excuse to extend the actual border of Israel.

And remember, the state of Israel doesn't consider the costs of a war. They live and work for it since their foundation. There was never the question if any occupation or war is costly. They get loads of money from the US and Germany, and who knows from, to get on with their expansion war.

Actually, thinking about it, maybe Israel is just the puffer zone of the western world? The spearhead of the economic that is OIL interests (towards Iran) of the US and it's European satellites?
Just a thought.

Sgt. Sensible

Deleted User wrote:

Didn't buy that one either. If they are trying to avoid civilians they must be terrible shots.

Well if you want to bring it down to bodycounts, they've killed a hell of a lot more people than Hizbollah have.

Anyway, looks like they're at war with the UN now. How will the apologists spin this one?

Four United Nations peacekeepers have been killed in an Israeli air strike on an observation post in southern Lebanon, the UN has said.

A bomb struck the post occupied by the peacekeepers of the Unifil force in the Khiam area, it said.

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said he was "shocked" at the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the post.

Israeli bomb kills UN observers.

gurramok

And a rescue team was shelled when they were trying to rescue the UN observers!
What Israel is doing is criminal and worse than what Hezbollah are doing and Israel are supposed to be the 'right-thinking' side!

Frederico

But what Israel is doing is not "terrorism", it's not actually terror.. its a justified war.. so its okay.. of course if they kill UN observers, it has to be a mistake, wonder how fox will spin this one

Manic Moran

Frederico wrote:

But what Israel is doing is not "terrorism", it's not actually terror.. its a justified war.. so its okay.. of course if they kill UN observers, it has to be a mistake, wonder how fox will spin this one

I strongly doubt it was a mistake. I'm very curious to know if there will be an investigation. My guess is that it will be investigated to the same extent as the USS Liberty attack.

NTM

nuttz

Deleted User wrote:

I wasn't aware that they had occupied the country. You mean to say they've conquered the whole region already? /sarcasm.

Can't see why they would want to occupy Lebanon,

Why not, they are currently occupying lands that was ethnically cleansed for them!