Israel/Lebanon/Hezbollah Crisis Thread was the "Is Israel right" thread

sovtek

Deleted User wrote:

But even in recent years as Israel withdrew from the Lebanon, pulled settlements out of Gaza etc. Hizbollah fired their rockets away, the Iranians were talking about wiping Israel off the map, Syria was going around assasinating activists and a former Lebanese prime minister who wanted to reduce their influence over Israel's neighbour etc. My take is that Israel will never have a peaceful existence as a nation unless and until it deals with Syria and the Hezbollah.

Israel still occupies part of Lebanon and still holds thousands of Lebanese.
Israel withdrew from Gaza but still imposes it's stranglehold over who/what goes in and out.
IIRC the UN investigation into the assasination of Hariri cleared the Syrian government of involvement .
Israel will never have a peaceful existance until it stops attacking its neighbors and stops trying to expand its terroritory. Eventually they will learn what the South Africans already know.

Jimboo_Jones

I think the withdrawal from Gaza was more to do with Isreal being scared that they might have had to absorb Gaza along with it inhabitants than any push for peace.

lostexpectation

Deleted User wrote:

But even in recent years as Israel withdrew from the Lebanon, pulled settlements out of Gaza etc. Hizbollah fired their rockets away, the Iranians were talking about wiping Israel off the map, Syria was going around assasinating activists and a former Lebanese prime minister who wanted to reduce their influence over Israel's neighbour etc. My take is that Israel will never have a peaceful existence as a nation unless and until it deals with Syria and the Hezbollah.

54 pages in conor74 still doens't know that hez has only fired 10 rockets (killing one injuring others) since 2000?????

sovtek

Deleted User wrote:

Unless you're talking about the Golan heights which were siezed during the 6 day war when Syria was at war with Israel. Either way, hardly stolen.

And there is a UNSC (242) resolution stating that it is stolen and for Israel to give it back.

New_Departure06

Jimboo_Jones wrote:

I think the withdrawal from Gaza was more to do with Isreal being scared that they might have had to absorb Gaza along with it inhabitants than any push for peace.

Agreed. Remember that they continued shelling and bombing Gaza after the withdrawl, causing the deaths of the 19 civilians on a beach. The neocon supporters of Israel conveniently forget this of course in order to present events as "Israel withdrew and look what happened to it". :rolleyes:

Unless you're talking about the Golan heights which were siezed during the 6 day war when Syria was at war with Israel. Either way, hardly stolen.

Well that was 39 years ago I think it can now be considered stolen, especially considering UN Resolution 242 on the return of Israel to its 1967 borders, and the colonisation of Golan with 35,000 Jewish settlers in violation of Geneva Convention 49 which forbids colonisation of occupied land.

mike65

Uk Foreign secretary has just said US and France have agreed a policy.

Mike.

Hobbes

mike65 wrote:

Uk Foreign secretary has just said US and France have agreed a policy.

Mike.

Was part of that agreement to rename freedom fries back to French fries?

Dirk Gently

Hobbes wrote:

Was part of that agreement to rename freedom fries back to French fries?

I think they changed them back to french fries a couple of weeks ago.
Maybe they promised that they wouldn't make fun of politicians if they looked a bit french.

anyway, on topic it looks like Israeli jets have taken out two power stations in the city of Tyre knocking out all the electricty.

lostexpectation

lostexpectation wrote:

54 pages in conor74 still doens't know that hez has only fired 10 rockets (killing one injuring others) since 2000?????

Oh is that all. That's fine then. I think the Geneva Convention and the UN write off the first 5 missiles and couple of civilian deaths in any year as being 'grand', so Hezbollah are way within their quota. Keep up the work lads...

Incidentally, your post completely ignores incidents such as the killing of six civilians by sniper fire, or the repeated attacks on IDF forces.

http://www.ict.org.il/spotlight/det.cfm?id=750

The Israelis details the following incidents involving Hezbollah between 2000 and 12th July 2006-

27 May 2006 - An IDF soldier was wounded when Katyushas were fired at an army base at Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.

27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6
Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.

21 Nov 2005 - An attempt to kidnap an IDF soldier was foiled when paratroopers patrolling near Rajar village discerned a Hizbullah unit approaching. Private David Markovitz opened fire, killing all four. In a heavy attack of mortars and Katyusha rockets that ensued, nine soldiers and and two civilians were injured.

29 June 2005 - More than 20 mortars were fired from across the border. Cpl. Uzi Peretz of the Golani Brigade was killed and four soldiers wounded, including the unit's doctor. Fire was
exchanged and helicopters and planes attacked five Hizbullah outposts in the Reches Ramim area.

7 Apr 2005 - Two Israeli Arabs from the village of Rajar on the Israel-Lebanon border were kidnapped by Hizbullah operatives and held in captivity for four days in an attempt to obtain information on Israel.

9 Jan 2005 - An explosive device was detonated against an IDF patrol at Nahal Sion. One Israeli soldier was killed, and a UN officer was killed.

20 July 2004 - Hizbullah sniper fired at an IDF
post in the western sector of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Two IDF soldiers were killed.

7 May 2004 - Fire in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF
soldier Dennis Leminov was killed, and two other soldiers were severely wounded. The IDF returned fire.

19 Jan 2004 - An anti-tank missile was fired at
IDF D9 while neutralizing explosive charges near Zari’t. An IDF soldier, Yan Rotzenski, was killed and another soldier was severely wounded.

6 Oct 2003 - Staff Sgt. David Solomonov was killed when Hizbullah fired at an IDF force south of theFatma Gate in the eastern sector. In addition, the Hizbullah fired missiles and rockets at an IDF post in the Reches Ramim area.

10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was
struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hizbullah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded.

20 Jul 2003 - Hizbullah snipers fired on an
Israeli outpost near Shtula, killing two Israeli
soldiers.

7 May 2003 - Hizbullah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack.

29 Aug 2002 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Ofer Misali was killed, and two other soldiers were lightly wounded.

12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack
on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis
civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt.
German Rojkov.

14 Apr 2001 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Elad Litvak was killed.

16 Feb 2001- Fire at an IDF convoy on Mt. Dov. IDF soldier Elad Shneor was killed, and three other soldiers were wounded.

26 Nov 2000 - A charge was detonated near an IDF convoy. IDF soldier Khalil Taher was killed and two other soldiers were wounded.

7 Oct 2000 - Kidnapping: Three IDF soldiers: Adi Avitan, Omer Soued and Binyamin Avraham were kidnapped by the Hizballah from the Mt. Dov sector.

Hobbes

your list is interesting in that the majority of the targets are IDF. They are not civilians. Do you have a similar list for Lebanon?

Also noticed on TV just now that Hezbollah have agreed to the UN resolution and will follow the ceasefire deadline while Israel have said they will take it under consideration.

Also you can see the state of Beruit here..
http://www.geoeye.com/gallery/zoomviewer.asp?zoomifyImagePath=http://www.geoeye.com/gallery/zoomify/beirut_ov3_31_july_2006_pan/&zoomifyX=0&zoomifyY=0&zoomifyZoom=-1&zoomifyToolbar=1&zoomifyNavWin=1&location=Beirut,%20Lebanon%20:%20OrbView-3

After looking at the bomb damage the attacks where clearly at disabling Lebanon and not stopping missile attacks from Beruit (which there were none, but thats the excuse used).

gurramok

Please list the 300 odd names of Lebanese children butchered by Israel in the last month as well if you manage to notice their gruesome deaths.
Listing Israeli casualties which look like mostly soldiers is one-sided.

Considering that vast majority of Lebanese casualties are civilian and the vast majority of Israeli casualties are soldiers makes one think about their Israeli bombing everyone from the air instead of confronting hezbollah straight-on with their military strength and not the odd incursion.
Due to the wholesale slaughter of civilians by 10-1, Israel's govt has emerged as a coward from this conflict.

Conar

gurramok wrote:

Please list the 300 odd names of Lebanese children butchered by Israel in the last month as well if you manage to notice their gruesome deaths.
Listing Israeli casualties which look like mostly soldiers is one-sided.

Considering that vast majority of Lebanese casualties are civilian and the vast majority of Israeli casualties are soldiers makes one think about their Israeli bombing everyone from the air instead of confronting hezbollah straight-on with their military strength and not the odd incursion.
Due to the wholesale slaughter of civilians by 10-1, Israel's govt has emerged as a coward from this conflict.

I couldn't agree more.
I think Israels disregard for civillian life can only further destabalise the area.
I did notice on the BBC website though that support for the continued assaault is waining slightly.

New_Departure06

Deleted User wrote:

Oh is that all. That's fine then. I think the Geneva Convention and the UN write off the first 5 missiles and couple of civilian deaths in any year as being 'grand', so Hezbollah are way within their quota. Keep up the work lads...

Incidentally, your post completely ignores incidents such as the killing of six civilians by sniper fire, or the repeated attacks on IDF forces.

http://www.ict.org.il/spotlight/det.cfm?id=750

The Israelis details the following incidents involving Hezbollah between 2000 and 12th July 2006-

27 May 2006 - An IDF soldier was wounded when Katyushas were fired at an army base at Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.

27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6
Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.

21 Nov 2005 - An attempt to kidnap an IDF soldier was foiled when paratroopers patrolling near Rajar village discerned a Hizbullah unit approaching. Private David Markovitz opened fire, killing all four. In a heavy attack of mortars and Katyusha rockets that ensued, nine soldiers and and two civilians were injured.

29 June 2005 - More than 20 mortars were fired from across the border. Cpl. Uzi Peretz of the Golani Brigade was killed and four soldiers wounded, including the unit's doctor. Fire was
exchanged and helicopters and planes attacked five Hizbullah outposts in the Reches Ramim area.

7 Apr 2005 - Two Israeli Arabs from the village of Rajar on the Israel-Lebanon border were kidnapped by Hizbullah operatives and held in captivity for four days in an attempt to obtain information on Israel.

9 Jan 2005 - An explosive device was detonated against an IDF patrol at Nahal Sion. One Israeli soldier was killed, and a UN officer was killed.

20 July 2004 - Hizbullah sniper fired at an IDF
post in the western sector of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Two IDF soldiers were killed.

7 May 2004 - Fire in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF
soldier Dennis Leminov was killed, and two other soldiers were severely wounded. The IDF returned fire.

19 Jan 2004 - An anti-tank missile was fired at
IDF D9 while neutralizing explosive charges near Zari’t. An IDF soldier, Yan Rotzenski, was killed and another soldier was severely wounded.

6 Oct 2003 - Staff Sgt. David Solomonov was killed when Hizbullah fired at an IDF force south of theFatma Gate in the eastern sector. In addition, the Hizbullah fired missiles and rockets at an IDF post in the Reches Ramim area.

10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was
struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hizbullah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded.

20 Jul 2003 - Hizbullah snipers fired on an
Israeli outpost near Shtula, killing two Israeli
soldiers.

7 May 2003 - Hizbullah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack.

29 Aug 2002 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Ofer Misali was killed, and two other soldiers were lightly wounded.

12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack
on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis
civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt.
German Rojkov.

14 Apr 2001 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Elad Litvak was killed.

16 Feb 2001- Fire at an IDF convoy on Mt. Dov. IDF soldier Elad Shneor was killed, and three other soldiers were wounded.

26 Nov 2000 - A charge was detonated near an IDF convoy. IDF soldier Khalil Taher was killed and two other soldiers were wounded.

7 Oct 2000 - Kidnapping: Three IDF soldiers: Adi Avitan, Omer Soued and Binyamin Avraham were kidnapped by the Hizballah from the Mt. Dov sector.

Well they were occupying Lebanese territory (Sheeba Farms) even before this recent conflict. They know what they have to do.

Ping Chow Chi

Conor74 has done a good job in pointing out that most of Hezbullah's targets where on the IDF. It's just a shame that the IDF appears to target civilians more than the terrorists that they are after.

I appreciate they are soldiers. I guess the 80 plus Irish guys who died for UNIFIL would be given similarly short shrift here because apparently some posters regard a soldier as expendable life. On the other hand I don't think the family of some teenage reservist in Israel blown apart by terrorsists would be so glib.

Hobbes

Deleted User wrote:

I appreciate they are soldiers. I guess the 80 plus Irish guys who died for UNIFIL would be given similarly short shrift here because apparently some posters regard a soldier as expendable life. On the other hand I don't think the family of some teenage reservist in Israel blown apart by terrorsists would be so glib.

However in a war if your in the army you should expect to get shot at, while civilians generally should be left alone and at the least not be indiscrimatly targetted.

Or are you purposely ignoring all the civilains dead so far? I'm sure thier families wouldn't be so glib either.

Hobbes

Hobbes wrote:

Or are you purposely ignoring all the civilains dead so far?

No. If you go back throught he posts you will see that I was responding to the suggestion that Hezbollah had 'only' killed one civilian since 2000 by pointing out that the innuendo that they had done little wrong was wide of the mark. They have killed more than one civilian and also killed many soldiers. I don't know where you draw the inference that that means I ignore Lebanese civilian deaths. The Israelis certainly have killed many multiples of their number of deaths in this war, and have clearly sunk to the level of terrorists. But let's not pretend Hezbollah are some harmless entity.

dlofnep

Israel is a terrorist state.. Their inaccurate attacks on civilians, disregard for human life and disregard for UN warnings is proof of that. If this was Iran attacking Lebenon, I'd pretty damn sure the US & Britain would be in there like flys on dog-sh*t.

Israel have killed and continue to kill innocent people - while the rest of the world argues over semantics. It's absolutely stupid. Something needs to be done about Israel - They are a bunch of terrorists.

Hobbes

Deleted User wrote:

But let's not pretend Hezbollah are some harmless entity.

Indeed and thanks for filling in the context.

Ping Chow Chi

Deleted User wrote:

I appreciate they are soldiers. I guess the 80 plus Irish guys who died for UNIFIL would be given similarly short shrift here because apparently some posters regard a soldier as expendable life. On the other hand I don't think the family of some teenage reservist in Israel blown apart by terrorsists would be so glib.

If you look at the post, I called Hezbullah terrorists, as that is what I believe that they are. I also believe that the IDF are acting like terrorist, the big difference is though that the IDF are better equiped and also appear to have the backing of our polictical leaders. And also seem to be much more effecient at killing civilians than the terrorist that they are after.

And yes I do believe that killing of soldiers is more 'acceptable' than the killing of a civilian, just as I believe that the killing of a terrorist is also more acceptable than killin civilians.

Frederico

Deleted User wrote:

Oh is that all. That's fine then. I think the Geneva Convention and the UN write off the first 5 missiles and couple of civilian deaths in any year as being 'grand', so Hezbollah are way within their quota. Keep up the work lads...

Incidentally, your post completely ignores incidents such as the killing of six civilians by sniper fire, or the repeated attacks on IDF forces.

http://www.ict.org.il/spotlight/det.cfm?id=750

The Israelis details the following incidents involving Hezbollah between 2000 and 12th July 2006-

27 May 2006 - An IDF soldier was wounded when Katyushas were fired at an army base at Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.

27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6
Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.

21 Nov 2005 - An attempt to kidnap an IDF soldier was foiled when paratroopers patrolling near Rajar village discerned a Hizbullah unit approaching. Private David Markovitz opened fire, killing all four. In a heavy attack of mortars and Katyusha rockets that ensued, nine soldiers and and two civilians were injured.

29 June 2005 - More than 20 mortars were fired from across the border. Cpl. Uzi Peretz of the Golani Brigade was killed and four soldiers wounded, including the unit's doctor. Fire was
exchanged and helicopters and planes attacked five Hizbullah outposts in the Reches Ramim area.

7 Apr 2005 - Two Israeli Arabs from the village of Rajar on the Israel-Lebanon border were kidnapped by Hizbullah operatives and held in captivity for four days in an attempt to obtain information on Israel.

9 Jan 2005 - An explosive device was detonated against an IDF patrol at Nahal Sion. One Israeli soldier was killed, and a UN officer was killed.

20 July 2004 - Hizbullah sniper fired at an IDF
post in the western sector of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Two IDF soldiers were killed.

7 May 2004 - Fire in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF
soldier Dennis Leminov was killed, and two other soldiers were severely wounded. The IDF returned fire.

19 Jan 2004 - An anti-tank missile was fired at
IDF D9 while neutralizing explosive charges near Zari’t. An IDF soldier, Yan Rotzenski, was killed and another soldier was severely wounded.

6 Oct 2003 - Staff Sgt. David Solomonov was killed when Hizbullah fired at an IDF force south of theFatma Gate in the eastern sector. In addition, the Hizbullah fired missiles and rockets at an IDF post in the Reches Ramim area.

10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was
struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hizbullah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded.

20 Jul 2003 - Hizbullah snipers fired on an
Israeli outpost near Shtula, killing two Israeli
soldiers.

7 May 2003 - Hizbullah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack.

29 Aug 2002 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Ofer Misali was killed, and two other soldiers were lightly wounded.

12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack
on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis
civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt.
German Rojkov.

14 Apr 2001 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Elad Litvak was killed.

16 Feb 2001- Fire at an IDF convoy on Mt. Dov. IDF soldier Elad Shneor was killed, and three other soldiers were wounded.

26 Nov 2000 - A charge was detonated near an IDF convoy. IDF soldier Khalil Taher was killed and two other soldiers were wounded.

7 Oct 2000 - Kidnapping: Three IDF soldiers: Adi Avitan, Omer Soued and Binyamin Avraham were kidnapped by the Hizballah from the Mt. Dov sector.

In reply to above I'd be interested to know how many Lebanese civilians, militia and Hezbollah have been killed and abducted by the IDF and Mossad in that time.

I doubt many people would bother to record such things.



Anyway... Its become quite obvious, that during this conflict; 1 Israeli life = 10 Lebanese or prehaps 60 dead Sri Lankan Children = 1 captured Israeli (Western media)

Did the Israeli's get their men back? no
Did they stop the rockets coming in? no
Did they annihilate Hezbollah? no

The world is now starting to see the damage they have done to south Lebanon, villages and towns raised to the ground.

Hobbes

Latest news coming from the US is that the US where informed of the attack on Lebabnon well in advance of the soliders being kidnapped. Also mentioned they (Israeli government) asked for Cheneys approval on it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4792961.stm

After that report (validity to be proven) and news this morning it really looks like Bush is going to be pushing the US into a war with Iran.

The_Scary_Man

Link to the original piece in The New Yorker

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact

Frederico

A group of guerillas held off one of the most advanced armies in the world in a place the size of Cork..

I think Bush looks very weak standing up and claiming some sort of victory against terror, when no such thing has happened, actually quite the opposite.

Frederico

Frederico wrote:

In reply to above I'd be interested to know how many Lebanese civilians, militia and Hezbollah have been killed and abducted by the IDF and Mossad in that time.

At the risk of repeating myself, I would point out that the list was put up in response to the suggestion that Hezbollah were kinda fairly harmless.

I would imagine the answer to your question is (i) fairly easily googled and (ii) a lot.

Hobbes

Hobbes wrote:

Latest news coming from the US is that the US where informed of the attack on Lebabnon well in advance of the soliders being kidnapped. Also mentioned they (Israeli government) asked for Cheneys approval on it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4792961.stm

After that report (validity to be proven) and news this morning it really looks like Bush is going to be pushing the US into a war with Iran.

For the moment, its just another conspiracy theory. Although I do believe that israel and the US worked on plans for an attack on lebanon at one stage, I don't believe they set this conflict up.

Morlar

Deleted User wrote:

For the moment, its just another conspiracy theory. Although I do believe that israel and the US worked on plans for an attack on lebanon at one stage, I don't believe they set this conflict up.

I dont think it can be that casually dismissed - the author of that piece is a fairly prominent & experienced journalist - hardly one to put his name to 'just another conspiracy theory'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4792961.stm
"Seymour Hersh is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, whose past work includes exposing the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and Vietnam's My Lai massacre."

This was exactly what a lot of people had been saying to begin with - it seems finally the evidence of it is starting to come to light.

Jimboo_Jones

Jimboo_Jones wrote:

ahh it seems that the Syrian goverment has said plenty of times that the farms are a part of lebanon, but will not provide the relivent documentation, probably for the reasons that you said, it gives Hezbollah an excuse to wage war.... So why wont Isreal give it back to Lebanon? Get rid of the excuse of Hezbollah.

You don't get it, do you? It is Syrian land, or was, so why does Hezbollah get a valid reason (approved by a number of posters here) to continue its war with Israel?

As for giving the land to lebanon, why do so when Lebanon have been unable to control Hezbollah as it is. The land in question is considered Syrian land, and yet Hezbollah continue their war. What's to say that Hezbollah won't continue after the land is returned, but taking the stance that Israel itself is Lebanese land. I'm sure they could produce a map to "prove" it....

Well land taken in war is still stolen. I am pretty sure that is how most of the old British empire felt....

I must admit I can never understand this mentality. Its only really since after WW2 that people started to consider conquest causing ownership as being wrong, and yet people try to apply it everwhere now.

sovtek wrote:

And there is a UNSC (242) resolution stating that it is stolen and for Israel to give it back.

Really? Because per Resolution 242, Israel is only in fault if you acknowledge this land to be Syrian............ . You can't have it both ways, you know.

The Security Council itself confirmed in June 2000 that Israel had withdrawn from southern Lebanon in compliance with UN Security Council resolutions 425 and 426. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheba_Farms

I wonder why its ok that Hezbollah didn't disband per the original agreement for Israel to leave Lebanese territory, along with the other militia's?

New_Departure06 wrote:

Agreed. Remember that they continued shelling and bombing Gaza after the withdrawl, causing the deaths of the 19 civilians on a beach. The neocon supporters of Israel conveniently forget this of course in order to present events as "Israel withdrew and look what happened to it". :rolleyes:

Well that was 39 years ago I think it can now be considered stolen, especially considering UN Resolution 242 on the return of Israel to its 1967 borders, and the colonisation of Golan with 35,000 Jewish settlers in violation of Geneva Convention 49 which forbids colonisation of occupied land.

Fair enough. Only if you call the land Syrian, and that neither Lebanon nor Hezbollah have any claim on the land of the Sheeba Farms area.....

I really have no problems with Resolution 242 except that it doesn't provide enough details on how it should be applied to all parties.

Morlar

Morlar wrote:

I dont think it can be that casually dismissed - the author of that piece is a fairly prominent & experienced journalist - hardly one to put his name to 'just another conspiracy theory'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4792961.stm
"Seymour Hersh is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, whose past work includes exposing the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and Vietnam's My Lai massacre."

This was exactly what a lot of people had been saying to begin with - it seems finally the evidence of it is starting to come to light.

Well, I'm going to wait for some evidence before I start believing it. The article is supposition, without anything to back it up. Yet. I'm not saying it isn't possible. It is possible. I'd just like to see something a little more tangible before everyone starts believing it as fact.

New_Departure06

New_Departure06 wrote:

Agreed. Remember that they continued shelling and bombing Gaza after the withdrawl, causing the deaths of the 19 civilians on a beach. The neocon supporters of Israel conveniently forget this of course in order to present events as "Israel withdrew and look what happened to it". :rolleyes:

This jumped out at me, while rereading your post. I thought it was 7 dead on the beach? (I'm not disputing that the IDF were involved, or that it wasn't an artillery shell that caused the deaths) Just wondering if there was another incident you were refering to.