Israel/Lebanon/Hezbollah Crisis Thread was the "Is Israel right" thread

marcsignal

kaiser1 wrote:

I have alot of respect for Isreal...they know thier own mind and is a country that will not under any circumstances be intimidated or terrorised into accecpting suituations that will endanger its people and its standard of living.

How pissed up on vodka and red bull were you when you started this thread ??

since when did being a victim in the past make anyone morally superior to anyone else ??

bet your mother is proud of you.........

Manic Moran

You can afford it with all that US taxpayer's money, Abrams tanks and F16's.

I know I've said it before, but the only non-Americans with Abrams tanks in the Middle-East are Arabs. Just thought I'd mention it, given the evident fact that only Zionist-Imperial-American-Running-Dog-Lackeys use American equipment. Israelis build their own tanks. Quite good ones, too.

think of how many innocent Palestinians and Arabs that have died under Israeli attacks. My bet would be that it's a way bigger figure than Israeli deaths.

So it's a numbers game? It only matters how many people are killed? An equal exchange rate would make it all better? Is a Hisbullah rocket into Northern Israel that happens to kill one woman less bad than an Israeli bomb into Lebanon that happens to kill two? Ridiculous argument. Acts are justified or they are not, in and of themselves.

Israel has attacked every country it borders

This is true. But every country that borders Israel has attacked it. And for good measure, countries that don't border Israel have attacked it too. Even Morocco sent three brigades to fight the 1973 war, and they're hardly close by, and it was a short war.

NTM

marcsignal

Manic Moran wrote:

every country that borders Israel has attacked it. And for good measure, countries that don't border Israel have attacked it too. Even Morocco sent three brigades to fight the 1973 war, and they're hardly close by.
NTM

i wonder why ?? perhaps you can enlighten us ??

sceptre

marcsignal wrote:

How pissed up on vodka and red bull were you when you started this thread ??

since when did being a victim in the past make anyone morally superior to anyone else ??

bet your mother is proud of you.........

Let's call it a month's ban for going in for a second helping at the end. Not constructive, not a contribution to the discussion and insulting another poster is specifically prohibited by the rules for good reason.

joebhoy1916

lisaloo wrote:

would soon be begging for help from uk army

LOL.

Seen George Bush saying every country has a right to defend itself.

So if a Palestinian guy went into a bar and blew it up that would be ok because after all Israeli is firing rockets at them?

Would just like to get yer views on that?

Amazing a solider get kidnapped and the typical American's blame Iran!

Id say the UN will call upon the country's to condemn the killing's of innocent civialians no doubt the American's will use there veto!

New_Departure06

Apparently Israeli goods in our shops have the barcode number 7 29 at the start. http://www.petitiononline.com/plo2002/petition.html Well then, those of us opposed to Israeli aggression in the Palestinian territories and Lebannon should put our money where our mouth is and boycott the 729 goods. Remember, look for this:

Manic Moran

marcsignal wrote:

i wonder why ?? perhaps you can enlighten us ??

Damned if I know. Three brigades is the current size of the entire Irish Army, so it's not so much a token force. I'm far more interested in military strategy, tactics and equipment than politics. It just seemed to be a sort of "It's the duty of all good Muslim countries to beat up on Israel" deal, even if the support was either logistical or token military involvement. For example Iraq sent a full army division, and a bunch of combat aircraft, whilst Saudi satisfied itself with sending only a brigade for show, but a lot of money. Kuwait took a similar path to Saudi, with only token troops. Unfortunately, my main reference books are in Dublin so I can't check them: The Internet is pretty vague as to which countries provided troops which saw action against Israel: For example Algeria sent a tank brigade, but they may not have crossed the Suez. (The three Air force squadrons would have seen action though) Similar for Tunisia's 2,000 men and Sudan, and its 3,500 troops. The Pakistani pilots got there just after the war ended, so missed the fun. (Which is odd, since they were involved in the shorter 1967 war). Uganda claims its army was involved, and of course that history went on with Entebbe.

Just for Ss and Gs, I guess, Cuba sent an armoured brigade, but obviously as the war only lasted two weeks, the Cubans missed it too. That was presumably just a Soviet Bloc/US Bloc deal though. Supposedly they ended up deploying in the Golan area in 1974 to protect Syria as it recovered from the mauling.

NTM

redspider

The situation with Israel always dissapoints me.

It is clear to one and all, and even the US who select to be blind in these situations, that Israel's use of force is both excessive, and most likely under UN and Human Rights charters, illegal. It is leading to deaths and injuries of innocent people. If Israel considered the taking of their soldiers as an 'act of war', their response was more so.

What is more perplexing in all of this is that, like the Palestine situation and their attempts to put pressure on Palestinian groups to be terrorist free, they are punishing all and they are doing the exact same with Hezbollah. They are punishing all the women and children and people of Lebanon.

Imagine a comparative example. Lets say that the IRA had kidnapped a couple of British soldiers, taking them in England. Then England's response is to bomb Dublin airport and blow up bridges and power stations, etc, in Ireland. It is obvious, as the saying goes, to a blindman that this is unjust and just pure wrong.

Israel have a new leader, but judging by his stance and the party and the interaction with the army, this is to put it mildly a 'hawkish' leadership.

It reminds me of a schoolyard bully, who gets hit in his back with a stone. He then goes around the playground and proceeds to beat-up every single child in the place. The response and actions are completely inapproriate. In this case, one of the Class teachers, the US, is sitting watching and doing nothing. They have groomed this child for many decades now and in their eyes it can literally do no wrong.

I am saddened from responses by the normal everyday population in Israel as well. It is a very military-oriented country, and over the years the people have become ensconced in their position in the world and what they believe is their right to 'protect'. Many acts that they do are what decent people and countries would consider as wrong and illegal. They have been getting away with it with backing friom the US. And one problem is that the vast majority of the Israel people think that what they are doing is ok.

The situation of the Palestinian people, essentially a group of people which are used as slaves economically, is unbelieveable. Most see the situation as ok.

I have discussed this with people from Israel. But it is like talking to people that refuse to listen to facts. You outline something, a train of thought, where 1+1 = 2, and they refuse to see it. Its a case of bringing a horse to water but being unable to make him drink.

The 'evolution' of Israeli attitudes since 1948 also manifests itself in other areas as well. I have personally come up against several Israeli people who in business terms have been corrupt. They were trying to siphon off money and arrange illegal payments. That was bad in itself, but what was more galling was that they took this as 'normal'. Ireland and other countries have it as well. But it is endemic in Israel in terms of 'cheating' in business terms. You really have to watch your back. In fact other Israeli's, those of a more caring nature told me its a stab in your back world.

I have had friends that have gone to Israel to live and work. They have returned home. It is a nice place visually and steeped with history, but alas no-one stays for the pleasantness of the people. It is common for people to 'stab others in the back' not only in business but personally. Not all of course, but it only takes people a couple of times to be 'stung' to have a bad feeling about the whole place. Ireland is no paradise either. But Israel and the nature of its people is certainly not the land of 1000 welcomes.

The current situation has escalated the ongoing problems. Some small good news is that the Israel army have withdrawn from Gaza. But this is more tactical rather than out of good-will.

Only the Israeli people can solve their problems with their neighbours. But like a 'sick person', they need help in doing so. But at the moment when the 'sick person' is running amok with a dagger in their hand, it is very difficult to do so. And no-one is in a position to stop them.

I dont have any answers alas ....

redspider

redspider

By the way:

These quotes must have been selected by Fox on purpose. I know that Fox is 'hawkish' by nature as is most of the US media, but not all of the people think this way, surely not:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,203357,00.html

"The U.S needs to start minding its own business. We have to stop getting into the world's business. We should try to sit one out for a change." — Tom (Atlanta, GA)

"We should stay back and let the Israelis handle this. They are completely capable of defending themselves and taking care of their own safety." — Wayne (Boston, MA)

"Nothing! Continue to endorse Israel’s right to defend itself. If Hezbollah wants to kidnap Israeli soldiers, then they must suffer the consequences." — Brian (Phoenix, AZ)

"We should not get involved, at least not yet. It will be interesting though to see if any other countries, such as Syria or Iran, get into this. Realistically, it should last as long as the first Gulf War. If it drags out and others get involved, watch out." — Rocky

"The U.S. can do more for the Middle Eastern peace process than ever before by staying out of Israel's way. We should do nothing unless nations like Iran and Syria try to intercede." — K (Albuquerque, NM)

"The U.S. needs to stand by Israel in the fight against terrorism. There is no difference between Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah or any other radical group." — Elana

"The U.S. should take a pre-emptive strike against Iran’s nukes and stand with Israel against Syria. The U.S. should send more troops to Iraq and put them at the borders of Syria and Iran." — Joyce (California)

redspider

New_Departure06

redspider wrote:

By the way:

These quotes must have been selected by Fox on purpose. I know that Fox is 'hawkish' by nature as is most of the US media, but not all of the people think this way, surely not:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,203357,00.html



redspider

Redspider it shows how brainwashed many Americans are, or else how indoctrinated they are with Jewish extremism and Christian Zionism.

bonkey

Slainte70 wrote:

For those of you who have said "it's just two soldiers…such a severe response …", Let me remind you that army service is compulsory in Israel.

That reminder has nothing to do with anything.

I asked another poster already, and unsurprisingly didn't get an answer. Let me ask you:

Where are the limits in how a nation is entitled to protect itself?

Please note - any answer to this is applicable to both sides in a conflict. If Israel has the right to do an un-defined "whatever it takes" then so does anyone on the other side. If massive disproportionate aggression is a suitable response, then it is a suitable response for both sides. If targetting civilian infrastructure is acceptable, then it is acceptable for both sides.

Therefore every Israeli has a son, a daughter, a brother, a sister, a father, a friend, a neighbour or a grandson serving in the IDF. To kidnap these two soldiers is like kidnapping one of their own family members.

Looked at a different way, it also means there are no civilian targets as everyone is an active, reserve, future or previous member of the IDF.

The Israeli loyalty to one's countrymen may be difficult for many of you to comprehend, as it is not every country which will go to the end of the world to bring their fellow countrymen home.

Seems to me that Israel is reacting to two other groups who have decided to risk initiating war to bring their fellow countrymen home.

Cuts both ways. Either its legitimate to do whatever it takes to bring your countrymen home, or there are limits. Would you care to define those limits? Will you criticise Israel if and when it then breaks those limits in the future?

Lebanon (which has Hizbollah members sitting in their government) will pay a high price for allowing Hizbollah terrorists to flourish in their country.

If revenge is your aim, then thats a perfectly reasonable stance to take. Actually seeking to find a way to get them to deal with the terrorists might be a better option if peace, rather than revenge, is what you seek. God knows that if nothing else, the unending cycle of violence should be an indication that revenge-oriented tactics are failing for both sides.

Nazralleh and Hizbollah know this only too well yet they continue with this provocation, entering Israel, killing eight soldiers and kidnapping two soldiers.

Israel has had no problem invading foreign territory (including Palestine) and assassinating (or carrying out targetted killings, or whatever euphemism you care to use) people in the past. Its reason for killing them without trial was that capture was deemed impractical, suggesting that Israel would have no compunction to remove foreign nationals from foreign soil in order to further its own aims.

So again...if Israel has this alleged right under the "whatever it takes" line of reasoning we hear time and time again, then there is no question but the other players must have exactly the same rights.

So either both sides are doing nothing wrong, or both are. I tend to the latter but you seem to be arguing that both sides shouldn't be held to the same standards.

Israel pulled out of Lebanon in September 2006…there was absolutely no legitimate reason for Hizbollah to commit this act of war.
...
This provocation together with the 1000 quassam rockets which have hit the Israeli town Sderot is unacceptable.

They're doing whatever it takes to get their countrymen home. Sound familiar yet?

Or will you accept yet that whatever it takes is not, in fact, a reasonable or valid stance to take?

Just because you are "out of the bubble" does not necessarily mean your view is clearer or more accurate than those who live in the region.

Not necessarily - just highly probably.

Enjoy your coffee! I'm off to the bomb shelter…

Best of luck. Hope you get through this ok.

fly_agaric

Sand wrote:

That also imply that it is not the first provocation Israel has received since the pull out, wouldnt it? I understand rocket attacks launched over the border on Israeli towns have been a regular occurence since the Gaza pull out. The IDF was no longer in place to patrol the Gaza side of the border, and the Palestinians either were unable to prevent attacks, or just as likely were carrying them out themselves.

Yes - Hamas have fired rockets into Israel from Gaza and that is a provocation.
I was just pointing out that it wasn't as though Israel has lain back and taken it like a poor lil' victim (bless) since their "bold move for peace" while Hamas attack mercilessly.

They have retaliated very strongly with assasination strikes in Gaza and border closures each time Hamas lauched rockets into Israel.

The IDF have carried on their policy of attempting to assasinate their targets over the border (and of course killing and injuring Palestinians) any time they got a good opportunity to strike - regardless of whether Hamas or others had actually attacked or not.

Sand wrote:

I keep seeing this. Its the stupidest most brainless inane fence sitting phrase I've ever heard of, and people keep on spouting it like it means something profound.

It is a cliche, but it doesn't make it any less true as far as it goes.

Sand wrote:

How can you criticise the IDF or Israeli policy if you actually believe in that phrase? After all, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Since that is true, the IDF cant be criticised because theyre somebodys freedom fighter.

The phrase doesn't make a judgement on the "freedom fighters".

Even if people are viewed by some as "freedom fighters" and even if there are actually good arguments for the use of violence to gain freedom from an oppressor in a given case it doesn't act as a catch-all excuse to say - oh, well, they can now do whatever they like and its ok becuase they are "fighting for freedom"TM.

Even if you view the IDF as fighters battling for Israels' security (on which it's freedom depends) you can still criticise their actions.
Even if you think the Palestinians have the right to use violence to try to gain an independent state you can still criticise Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PLO of old etc for their methods.

Sand wrote:

Another silly analogy that is repeatedly trotted out.

You make it sound so durty...

Sand wrote:

Hizbollah are in the Lebanese government...terrorist groups operating in Palestinian areas and along Israeli borders are either part of the local administrations, are sponsored by regional governments and powers, or have reached a "dont bother us and we wont bother you" understanding with the local dictator.

Hizbollah have more support in Lebanon (and crucially, from ouside) than the 'Ra and SF ever dreamed of having here (or ever got from ousiders) but they are not synonymous with "Lebanon" or "the Lebanese people".

They certainly represent both much less than Hamas, which runs the PA, can be said to represent Palestinians or Gazans in particular.

This is why the Irish Terrorism analogy is a better fit here and why the Israel should not be committing these acts of war against Lebanon and it's people.

Slainte70 wrote:

It must be extremely comfortable and convenient for you to pass judgement, while sipping your coffee in Killiney, Killarney or wherever you may be. Just because you are "out of the bubble" does not necessarily mean your view is clearer or more accurate than those who live in the region. Enjoy your coffee! I'm off to the bomb shelter...

The view of a outsider should be more accurate than someone with close ties to one side or another because they are not emotionally involved.

I dunno - maybe I'd be cheering on Hamas "martyrs" if the IDF had bulldozed the house of someone I knew in a terrorist pig-hunt, or in revenge because one of the kids living there had been a suicide bomber.

Maybe I'd be waxing lyrical about drowning all the Jews in the sea if one of my relatives, or just someone I knew had been a regrettable collateral damage casualty stat. in an Israeli targetted killing.

Or if I'd been born in Gaza, with a dead-end life of no job, no money, no prospects stretching in front of me unless I could get out, and having listened from birth to how it was all Israel's fault and seeing the random daily cruelties dispensed from on high by the IDF as they "secure" the Israeli people and their settlers - maybe I'd root for the terrorists too, or even join up.

Or what if someone I knew had been blown to bits by a Palestinian Bus-bomber? I might be more inclined to the opinion that the Arabs still living in the outer territories of Eretz Israel by the benvolent dispensation of the Israeli govt. were all a pack of ungrateful and inhuman vermin who should really be either wiped out or pushed into Egypt and Jordan where they belong in the name of Israels' security.

After all, you said that "every Israeli has a son, a daughter, a brother, a sister, a father, a friend, a neighbour or a grandson serving in the IDF. To kidnap these two soldiers is like kidnapping one of their own family members" didn't you?

Many people would move heaven and earth - or maybe even wage war on another country if they could - to get a member of their family back safe, but it still wouldn't make it right.

Anyway, if you are in Israel, keep well.

fly_agaric

New_Departure06 wrote:

Redspider it shows how brainwashed many Americans are, or else how indoctrinated they are with Jewish extremism and Christian Zionism.

Well, it shows how blinkered the subset of Americans who
(i)read FOX's website
(ii)care enough to post on it
(iii)and get their comments selected
are, and how some people like that will send us all to hell if they ever get their fingers on the big red buttons (the ones saying the US should bomb Lebanon, Syria, Iran, etc etc).

Manic Moran wrote:

Israelis build their own tanks.

Yes, but they get alot of money from the US and preferential access to alot of the newest US technology.

The US has no problems with this - unless of course the Israeli's try to double their money by flogging their advanced weaponry developed with US assistance to 3rd parties that the US distrust.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/830609.stm

Bookee

Let's get Palestine 'armed and ready' just as the Israelis are, then perhaps the things might be fair in Love and War. Of course the US are happy to sit back and let Israel take care of themselves; because they know how well armed they are compared to Palestinians.

bonkey

Bookee wrote:

Let's get Palestine 'armed and ready' just as the Israelis are,

Yes. Escalating the situation is a really clever idea. Thats why everyone encourages Israel when it does so.

Bookee

Israel 'escalated' the situation. I just feel Palestine should be better equipped to defend itself, but Israel aren't going to want a level playing field now, are they?

bonkey

Bookee wrote:

Israel 'escalated' the situation.

Well, yes. I miore-or-less said as much.

I just feel Palestine should be better equipped to defend itself,

You think this would stop the Israeli's moving heaven and earth to get their people back? You think their care for the wellbring of their soldiers is only relative to the fact that they have superior firepower?

If not, then giving the other side more weapons only serves to escalate further. I fail to see how encouraging further escalation is a smart idea.

but Israel aren't going to want a level playing field now, are they?

OK. I give up. You apparently just want to blame Israel. Go for it.

jc

Zambrotta

Kaiser no offence if ur not but u sound like a Yank. No other country would get away with what they are doing now. It is like the UK invading Ireland because the IRA bombs some where in London. Isreal are milking the experiences of Jews in WW2 to exploit a people who have no power.

dathi1

Yes. Escalating the situation is a really clever idea. Thats why everyone encourages Israel when it does so.

Although an over simplification maybe he has a point. What if the Persians had the nuclear deterrent today? Would Israel be caring out its Iraqi Style bombardment?

Bookee

Good comparison Zambrotta; but thankfully Ireland has Military Force to attempt defending itself.

Manic Moran

Not that would last for much over a couple of days against the UK if it really decided it objected to Irish existence.

I think it's all a big Arab/Persian plot. Instability in the MidEast results in really high oil prices. $75 a barrel or so, right now, all going into the coffers of those countries which export oil. Iran wants more money for its oil, it just nudges Hisbullah or Hamas a little bit to provoke Israel, who then beats up on other countries while Iran sits back laughing and counting its winnings. Feel free to replace 'Iran' with any mid-eastern oil-exporting nation.

NTM

(OK. I don't really think it's all a big Arab/Persian plot, but I'll lay money they've thought about it..)

LegacyUser

Havent been on for a few days but it seems that the thread I started has lost its original intetion of discussing the response Israel should meat out to Islamic terrorists in Gaza.

In the last week things have changed dramatically.

Let me start by thanking Sceptre for banning that member who posted a comment that was bang out of order.

My opinion is exactly how the Israeli General in charge of the I.D.F engaged in operations in Southern Lebanon said that the Israeli response to Hezbollah attacks into Northern Israel would be "restrained...but very very very painfull".

This is the only sort of response terrorists understand. And here is another thing...how all of a sudden has Hezbollah the ability to hit cities in Israel as far south as Haifa??...If you ask me I smell a rat and the rat here smells like either Syria or Iran!!

And if people think the punishment being dished out to Lebanon is tough ,if there is any connection made between Syria,Iran and Hezbollah(i.e the arming of Hezbollah) I shudder to think the repracussions for the region.

I totally support the actions of Israel....thier country is being attacked...and with regard to Hezbollah the attack into Northern Israel was totally unprovoked.

It has always been the way....Islamic Jihadists attack Israel...Israel counterattacks with a massive response...and the world condems Israel.

Bookee

The world isn't 'allowed' (really) to 'condemn' israel with the Backers(U.S.) vetoing any suggestion of possible resolution from the U.N.


OOps: said attack, instead of condemn.....!

tallus

Bookee wrote:

The world isn't 'allowed' (really) to 'attack' israel with the Backers(U.S.) vetoing any suggestion of possible resolution from the U.N.

I agree with that post, the U.S. has constantly used it's power of veto to protect Israel from U.N. resolutions
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html

dathi1

It has always been the way....Islamic Jihadists attack Israel...Israel counterattacks with a massive response...and the world condems Israel.

You mean the world condemns the massive slaughter of civilians and infrastructure. I think the world has had enough of this artificial statelet founded on terrorism with hagganah and the stern gang. Enough is enough we've had to much crap from this region. Israel has cost the world peak oil economy collapse time after time. It is directly responsible for the formation of Hamas and Hezbollah. It is directly responsible for the formation of al quida. It will also be directly responsible for whatever crappy Islamisist group which emerges from the ashes of this escapade. Time and time again since 1947 we've had this cra.p. We've had enough of the bull.****..return to UN resolution 242, get behind the 67 borders and let the world deal with whoever causes problems after that. On a side note it looks like the IDF is failing to divide the Lebanese along ethnic lines circa the 80s. BBC newsnight showed Christian Druze and Marinites supporting Hezbollah tonight.

Manic Moran

dathi1 wrote:

On a side note it looks like the IDF is failing to divide the Lebanese along ethnic lines circa the 80s. BBC newsnight showed Christian Druze and Marinites supporting Hezbollah tonight.

I don't think the Israelis care at this point. They're seriously pissed and not really thinking along Machiavellan lines.

There are quite a few Lebanese who are equally unhappy with Hezbullah though. I've been bouncing around the Lebanese blogs (There are a fair few of them), and a lot of them are condemning Israel with one breath for their excessive actions, and Hezbullah/Nasrallah on the other for disturbing the nice, quiet, profitable peace (right in tourist season, too) by picking a fight with the Israelis. From the BBC Website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5178572.stm

"But many other Lebanese are aghast at the prospect of open-ended hostility, destruction and impoverishment that now looms.

"Hezbollah was all very well when the Israelis were occupying South Lebanon and had to be driven out," said one Shia from Baalbek in the eastern Bekaa Valley.

"But they left in 2000. So why give them the pretext to come back and destroy everything and ruin our lives again?"

All this adds up to huge pressure on the Beirut government. "

NTM

Slainte70

dathi1 wrote:

It is directly responsible for the formation of al quida.

How exactly? Would you care to explain because I am completely baffled by your statement..

dathi1 wrote:

On a side note it looks like the IDF is failing to divide the Lebanese along ethnic lines circa the 80s. BBC newsnight showed Christian Druze and Marinites supporting Hezbollah tonight.

The following two links quoting people who live in the region give a completely different picture to the one you are trying to paint. But hey if someone from "outside the bubble" says it then it must be right because you indeed hold (cough) an objective view (cough).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5179734.stm

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150886002616&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Manic Moran

Although I found the article quite well-balanced considering the source, I'm not convinced that I would think the Jerusalem Post is really the most unbiased paper to be quoting when referring to Lebanese opinion on boards. You're better off hitting the blogs.

If I had to put money on an outcome, in about a week the bodies of the two captured soldiers will show up, the Israelis will pull back to their side of the border, and the Lebanese will be left going "WTF, over? We'd better not let that happen again, it really messes up our tourist season...."

NTM

Slainte70

Manic Moran, I would not usually use Jerusalem Post as a reference exactly for the reason that you have suggested. However, please note that under the heading, the article was written by Associated Press...

bonkey wrote:

Best of luck. Hope you get through this ok.

fly_agaric wrote:

Anyway, if you are in Israel, keep well.

Thank you both for your kind wishes. It's been a rough few days and does not look like it is going to end anytime soon now that Syria is lending its support to Hizbollah. I would like to add that I hope that innocent civilians in Lebanon will come to no harm, as it is not Israel's intention to do so.

philologos

Best of luck Lebanon, if the Israelis continue to be excessive let Lebanon and other Arab nations be excessive. It's time that Israel got a jolly good hiding as they need to be stepped down a notch with their eye for an eye policy. No other country would get away with this and Israel shouldn't either.

*best of luck to the people of Beirut, and the people of Palestine