Shooting Cats?

Arcadian

Is there something seriously wrong with these people?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=51839095

As someone who has adopted a cat that was previously used for target practice and still bears the scars i know what i'd like to shoot:mad:

Ruu_Old

I don't know, one of the users claims they are or were diseased animals that claimed the life of a child.

muckwarrior

They're talking about diseased vermain, no different than rats. Not somebody's pet!

junkyard

I really can't see what pleasure there is to be had by going out killing animals tbh. I'd be the first to admit that I don't particularly like cats as they them selves are killers but I wouldn't go around killing them. I'd say anyone who enjoys killing animals for sport or pleasure must have a very cruel streak in them.

golden

Although not really a cat lover, dont like to see any cruelty to any animals. how do people know that the feral cats (which at one stage where domesticated) have so called diseases, surely to clarify things you have to capture the animal and do a blood test to see whether or not the cat has infections. Perhaps the only way to try and alleviate the feral problem is to capture feral cats and neuture them and release when they are ready to go back. All owners of any cats/dogs who are not going to breed should really get the job done both on the male and female animals.

RandomOne

Arcadian wrote:

Is there something seriously wrong with these people?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=51839095

As someone who has adopted a cat that was previously used for target practice and still bears the scars i know what i'd like to shoot:mad:

It's quite clear they're shooting on a farm to clear vermin. Whilst I have a problem with using the wrong ammo and being a crap shot causing suffering (not aimed at original thread poster, general issue) whether it's rats, rabbits, foxes or wild cats, if they're causing a problem to the farm, it's a time-old (traditional) pest control thing.

Just because we see them as cutesy creatures who (possibly) could be domesticated, doesn't mean the farmer does, especially whenhis livelihood's at stake. Someone who's a good shot, shoots to kill, vermin and diseased creatures is a far preferable control method than setting traps or poison IMO. They have as much right to protect their animals/livelihood as we do to object.

Arcadian

Yes they do have the right to protect their livestock, we all know that a 3 or 4 kilo feral cat can easily bring down your average heifer:rolleyes:

muckwarrior

Arcadian wrote:

Yes they do have the right to protect their livestock, we all know that a 3 or 4 kilo feral cat can easily bring down your average heifer:rolleyes:

Well done on such a strong arguement there. I'm sure nobody will be able to pick a single hole in it :rolleyes:

grimloch

Arcadian wrote:

Yes they do have the right to protect their livestock, we all know that a 3 or 4 kilo feral cat can easily bring down your average heifer:rolleyes:

Possibly true, but the thread, which I assume you didn't read in full, states that the cats have been eating his rabbits.

Jotter

yeah but if it wasnt the cats eating the rabbits it would be a fox and if it wasnt a fox it would be a dog etc so I think hed be better off making sure his rabbits are in a safer area than trying to shoot every animal that comes on his farm.

junkyard

He's probably going to shoot the rabbits anyway.:(

nando

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadian
Yes they do have the right to protect their livestock, we all know that a 3 or 4 kilo feral cat can easily bring down your average heifer

Maybe not, buy cat faeces is the primary source of Toxoplasma gondii (toxoplasmosis) infection to sheep in Ireland.

EDIT: Not that I'm necessarily advocating shooting feral cats! Just recognising that cats can in fact pose a health risk to livestock in Ireland despite their small stature.

TempestSabre

I'm curious what other (cost effective) methods would people who have a problem with shooting, suggest in dealing with feral cats. Trapping them and lethal injection?

newby.204

Not that im sure it matters to you "far more intelligent than i". I had a rabbit, have a cat, used to have about 10 and i own a dog, who came to me because he was killing a farmers chickens and the farmer didn want to kill him/have him put down.

I also own a shotgun and a rifle(ill keep it simple for the uneducated folk) and it has NOTHING to do with killing.NOTHING TO DO WITH KILLING.

With regards to my "cruel streak" i shoot and hunt as a sport and the enjoyment comes from the SKILL involved to perfrom the shot.

The post you refer to is for the purposes of animal control(vermin) that includes wild cats, crows, foxes and other such threats to a mans livelyhood, if a restaraunt ownner had rats you wouldnt care about rat poison now would you!!

Ill leave it at that as im sure you will have so sefl-righteous rant that pulls my simple explanation apart, as all you PC crowd do!!

Garth

http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/whatistnr.htm

TempestSabre

Garth wrote:

http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/whatistnr.htm

How expensive is that compared to shooting the cat?

Riamfada

[Angerandrage]I read that thread yesterday and I was sickened at the types of people there are out there. The Op in that thread was more concerned with the pleasure in taking a life as he dosnt seem like a farmer.(hes prob already killed all the bunnies) I hope somday Mr Barretta gets turned on him .

Report me , ban me .. whatever but Sick Piece of ****

in their thread they call people who object to their sadistic practises "Trolls" . I guess somone with mental issues never know they have mental issues . [/Angerandrage]

I have had my cat for two years. Saved him when he was only 5 weeks old .

junkyard

You don't need any SKILL to kill something with a shotgun ffs.:mad:

TempestSabre

Its a bit gung ho alright. Doesn't seem as clinical as you'd expect for pest control. Or maybe hes just a dire shot. (no offense) Personally I don't have a problem with shooting, or shooting as a form of pest control, if its done properly. But its not the most effective as some searching on the net shows. It also indicate that feral cats are "primarily the result of pet owners' abandonment or failure to spay and neuter their animals". I do have a problem with people buying "pets" in urban areas, failing to manage them, and everyone else suffers, including the animal.

http://www.irishanimals.com/cats/21.html
http://www.feralcat.com/
http://messybeast.com/feralkit.htm

I was of the perhaps misunderstanding that stray animals that get caught, if not rehomed are usually put down eventually as the centers do not have the resources to house them indefinately.

...U.S. animal shelters are forced to kill an estimated 15 million homeless cats and dogs annually. The alternative to humane euthanasia for almost every stray is a violent end or slow, painful death. Many "throwaways" die mercilessly outdoors from starvation, disease, abuse --- or as food to a predator...

TempestSabre

junkyard wrote:

You don't need any SKILL to kill something with a shotgun ffs.:mad:

I would have thought a scoped rifle of some kind would be more effective. I assume...You'd be more likely to wound or maim with a shotgun.

junkyard

I'd be more inclined to trap them and get them put down humanely if there was a real problem or else secure your own animals. Even though I own a shotgun myself the last thing I would do is kill an animal no matter what type of gun I had.

Garth

TempestSabre wrote:

How expensive is that compared to shooting the cat?

Well, more expensive but given that "feral cat control" via killing has been proven in country after country after country to be completely ineffective (cats are incredibly efficient breeders), chosing a method that actually works (but doesn't make people feel powerful or big) might be wiser.

TempestSabre

Garth wrote:

Well, more expensive but given that "feral cat control" via killing has been proven in country after country after country to be completely ineffective (cats are incredibly efficient breeders), chosing a method that actually works (but doesn't make people feel powerful or big) might be wiser.

Funny, thats the impression I get from the link I posted....:)

grimloch

Garth wrote:

Well, more expensive but given that "feral cat control" via killing has been proven in country after country after country to be completely ineffective (cats are incredibly efficient breeders), chosing a method that actually works (but doesn't make people feel powerful or big) might be wiser.

I don't think it's entirely fair to compare the two like that. Unless we employee dedicated cat shooters it's not the same thing.

With the way animal shelters are at the moment, sans government funding for example, does the TNR method have any chance of success? I wouldn't think so. At least not for the time being. Now not that I actually pay tax or anything, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to paying an extra euro or two a year to get this project off the ground if it's actually been proven to work.

Kazu

ive shot at least 25 cats which where wild and no one pets with a shotgun

An organism called chlamydia,. causes abortion during the last month of pregnancy, ... The organism is a coccidium of cats spread to sheep

You don't need any SKILL to kill something with a shotgun ffs.

yes you do there not stupid :rolleyes:

nando

Kazu wrote:

An organism called chlamydia,. causes abortion during the last month of pregnancy, ... The organism is a coccidium of cats spread to sheep

Just to keep the facts straight:

Chlamydia is not a coccidium, it is a bacterium.
Chlamydia felis that commonly infects cats is not linked to abortion in sheep.
Chlamydophila abortus is the chlamydial species that causes abortion in sheep.

Toxoplasma gondii is a coccidium of cats that can cause abortion in sheep.

FranknFurter

The idea of shooting cats is ridiculous.
Cats are not native to this country, we, us humans intriduced them. It is our mess and we have a responsibility to fix it humanely.

Shooting is not humane, at the best, you are dependant on how good the shot is, where it hits and cats are quite amazing, they can often carry on with horrific painfull injuries for days before death.

The only humane method is to have them caught in a humane trap and brought to a rescue, or at worst, euthanised properly by a vet if there is absolutely no other option.

(By the way, does a gun licience give permission for the shooting of domestic pets owned by somone? Because unless you can prove 1000% an animal is "feral" you would be breaking the terms of your licence surely? Its rarely possible to be 100% positive of anything).

b

Umiq88

How is it people can argue so much about something they know so little about.

Some seem to be under the impression that there are lunitics with guns rampaging around the country killing defencless little kittens for amusment.

We're talking about wild cats here which have been wild for 1 or 2 generations who are damaging a farmers property and possesion by what ever means taking his hens and the like. Do you not think the farmer has the right to dipose of the vermin. Shooting is a cheap humane effect way of killing vermin. Obviously the farmer has an obligation to be competant with the gun and be able to hit what he's aiming at.

Some people seem to be ender the impression that a shotgun is not a very accurate or dangerous gun. This just goes to show some of the naiveness of the posters here there are lots off different loads for a shotgun and chokes a thight choked shotgun with a heavy load of bb's is extremely lethal even at ranges of 100yards and more than sufficent for killing feral cats.

The fact that cats are not naitve to this country further supports the idea that they have to be controlled. Deer can be used as an example. Deer are not native to this country have no natural predators and roam the country side if they were not kept in there numbers by hunters (who i might add need to have licences and permits its not just any old joe smoe who can aquire a rifle licence) they would cause awful grief and damage to the country in the US there are hundreds of accidents with deers hitting cars and they do awful damage to crops and trees

You bring up the note that you cant be 100% sure if an animal is feral. Well we had a dog who we had as a pet who was a family dog and played with us as kids. The dog attacked some neighbours sheep and killed one or two the farmer went out with the shotgun and put the dog down. This wasnt a wild dog but was causing the farmer grief who had ever right to put the animal down


And as for other methods poison is hardly humane or safe for that matter we put down rat poisin at home. Once our dog got at it and ate some. The dog was howling all night long and died in the morning hardly humane. A single shot with a rifle or shotgun does the job much better wtih little or no pain to the animal.

The fact of the matter is that vermin need to be diposed of and shooting is a simple cost effective humane ay of doing it

FFS Why dont you go port your anger somewhere usful try ring up the american military and inform them of the TNR (trap neuter release) system maybe they can try it on the iraqis

Some people have completely lost touch with realitiy.

FranknFurter

psittacosis wrote:

How is it people can argue so much about something they know so little about.

You know this about people how? Just because people don't agree with you does not mean they know nothing of which they speak.

psittacosis wrote:

Some seem to be under the impression that there are lunitics with guns rampaging around the country killing defencless little kittens for amusment.

Show me where anyone has said that?

psittacosis wrote:

We're talking about wild cats here which have been wild for 1 or 2 generations who are damaging a farmers property and possesion by what ever means taking his hens and the like. Do you not think the farmer has the right to dipose of the vermin. Shooting is a cheap humane effect way of killing vermin. Obviously the farmer has an obligation to be competant with the gun and be able to hit what he's aiming at.

You are assuming a lot here. You are assuming a farmer will wait till his property is damaged before shooting, most won't.
You are assuming each cat is feral. Again, thats being assumed. The cat he shoots "just in case" could be the much loved pet of jane or johnny down the road.
You are assuming the farmer's idea of being "competant with a gun" is actually right. I might be "Competant" at swimming in my eyes, to a professional I'm certainly not. Or maybe I *was* at one time but my eyesight has got bad and I've not noticed. "ooops, me old eyes aint as good as they used to be haha" = some injured animal wandering in agony for god knows how long.

psittacosis wrote:

Some people seem to be ender the impression that a shotgun is not a very accurate or dangerous gun. This just goes to show some of the naiveness of the posters here there are lots off different loads for a shotgun and chokes a thight choked shotgun with a heavy load of bb's is extremely lethal even at ranges of 100yards and more than sufficent for killing feral cats.

Who cares frankly? A gun is a gun as far as the cat is concerned when it is shot or injured with one.

psittacosis wrote:

The fact that cats are not naitve to this country further supports the idea that they have to be controlled. Deer can be used as an example. Deer are not native to this country have no natural predators and roam the country side if they were not kept in there numbers by hunters (who i might add need to have licences and permits its not just any old joe smoe who can aquire a rifle licence) they would cause awful grief and damage to the country in the US there are hundreds of accidents with deers hitting cars and they do awful damage to crops and trees.

The subject is cats not deer. Where in the licence does it state that potential pets can be killed in case they may some day kill a chicken?

psittacosis wrote:

You bring up the note that you cant be 100% sure if an animal is feral. Well we had a dog who we had as a pet who was a family dog and played with us as kids. The dog attacked some neighbours sheep and killed one or two the farmer went out with the shotgun and put the dog down. This wasnt a wild dog but was causing the farmer grief who had ever right to put the animal down

In your opinion. Mine would have been to discuss the issue with the farmer, compensate him for his loss, and then be a responsible pet owner and decide upon the fate of the dog in question. Anyone, farmer or not, taking the law into his / her own hands is wrong.

psittacosis wrote:

And as for other methods poison is hardly humane or safe for that matter we put down rat poisin at home. Once our dog got at it and ate some. The dog was howling all night long and died in the morning hardly humane. A single shot with a rifle or shotgun does the job much better wtih little or no pain to the animal.

See above. And again, the issue is the shooting of cats.

psittacosis wrote:

The fact of the matter is that vermin need to be diposed of and shooting is a simple cost effective humane ay of doing it.

Cats are not considered "vermin" by the majority of people in this country or by law, you may want to look that up.
As for "a single shot with a rifle does the job quicker etc etc"... again, see above.

psittacosis wrote:

FFS Why dont you go port your anger somewhere usful try ring up the american military and inform them of the TNR (trap neuter release) system maybe they can try it on the iraqis.

:rolleyes: Why does that remark not surprise me?

psittacosis wrote:

Some people have completely lost touch with realitiy.

We agree there.

B

Umiq88

Go over to the thread in question and read the op's reply to the matter

Im not going to bother arguing with you as its not going to go anywhere

You keep sayin that im assuming alot well if your looking at it like that you have assumed as i have i was giving the op the benifit of the doubt

And yes we were talking about cats and not deer but the principal still applies cats are not native and introduced as pets if they become wild there is nothing to stop them breeding out of control

And yes the farmer has right to take action with the dog. The dog took two sheep he took one dog i think its more we should be compensating him he took a pet "we" took part of his income and if the dog was not stopped he would continue doing it.

With anything there is going to be a certain chance for error and yes there can be miss hits but any competant shooter will follow up with a second shot and kill the animal. Whats that you say what if he's not competant everywhere you go no matter what you do theres always someone like that. Take driving how many people die on the roads how many people are not competant to drive how many accidents and hit and runs are there what are we supposed to do there are new measures coming in to try and prevent this. But a certain amount of responsability lies on ther person using the gun driving the car doing whatever.

FranknFurter

psittacosis wrote:

Go over to the thread in question and read the op's reply to the matter

I have done, I dont see your point being made.

psittacosis wrote:

Im not going to bother arguing with you as its not going to go anywhere

Errm, ok, I assume you mean after your argument below?
(BTW, I'm seeing this as a "discussion" thread, not an "argument" thread. Sorry if you're not)

psittacosis wrote:

You keep sayin that im assuming alot well if your looking at it like that you have assumed as i have i was giving the op the benifit of the doubt

I was responding to your post that I quoted specifically.

psittacosis wrote:

And yes we were talking about cats and not deer but the principal still applies cats are not native and introduced as pets if they become wild there is nothing to stop them breeding out of control

I never said they were *not* breeding out of control. Everybody knows the cat population is out of control and somthing needs to be done about. I said, it is impossible to know which cat as feral and which is not. And that (IMO) regular citzens upping and shooting them is not the responsible action, and is not even legal.
IMO, much more defined gun laws need to be introduced if for no other reason than to inform certain farmers that having a gun is not a right to shoot whatever the hell they want instead of taking the proper responsible legal action the rest of the world has to. Why should a farmer be above the regular laws for such problems? How do they think the rest of the world copes? If we all shot everything that caused us problems the country would be in chaos.

Deer are rarely kept as pets btw, and usually are on land for a reason.

psittacosis wrote:

And yes the farmer has right to take action with the dog. The dog took two sheep he took one dog i think its more we should be compensating him he took a pet "we" took part of his income and if the dog was not stopped he would continue doing it.

I already said that part of the responsible action would be for you to compensate him for his loss, (maybe you should re-read), wheres your "argument"? All I said was that in my opinion the decision on the fate of the dog should have come down to the owners. If their decision was inappropriate then there are legal ways to take care of that.
A responsible owner of any animal will try their best to do the right thing, an irresponsible owner lets others sort out their mess for them.
I'm fed up with people thinking that the answer to a behavioural problem in an animal is for it to be PTS, that should be the exception when all other avenues have been explored and eliminated.

psittacosis wrote:

With anything there is going to be a certain chance for error and yes there can be miss hits but any competant shooter will follow up with a second shot and kill the animal. Whats that you say what if he's not competant everywhere you go no matter what you do theres always someone like that. Take driving how many people die on the roads how many people are not competant to drive how many accidents and hit and runs are there what are we supposed to do there are new measures coming in to try and prevent this. But a certain amount of responsability lies on ther person using the gun driving the car doing whatever.

Are you seriously comparing a (albiet bad or incompetant) driver having an accident (ie: not going out with the intent to kill or maim),... to a farmer purposefully opening a gun cabinet, cleaning and inspecting a gun, loading a gun, going out and actively seeking an animal to kill or maim?

The responsible action would be to inform the authorities and while the proper legal actions are being taken I would take measures to insure my chickens were properly secured against such an attack.
Not the "easy way out", certainly not as "easy" as going out and shooting what you think might be the right cat, but the responsible, legal way, yes definitely.

You are entitled to your opinions, just as I am entitled to my opinions.
I am entitled to post my opinions for discussion, just as you are entitled to post your opinions for discussion, this is a discussion board after all is'nt it?

I'm not saying that feral cats shouldnt be removed and controlled, Im saying there are better and more responsible and effective ways other than shooting them.

b