Liverpool v Maccabi Haifa. on d'telly tomorrow

Guy:Incognito

Ronan|Raven wrote:

Going to be a very close second half. Gerrard is better back in his usual position imo. One thing is though if Pennant keeps putting in that quaity of cross during the season Lurch should grab a few.

The same guy that cant head a ball on target to save his life?:)

futuredeath

zenden off for garcia??? maybe

futuredeath

nothin wrong with that tackle

Guy:Incognito

Why cant that useless freak ever jump without molesting the defender? He's taller than every defenders he's ever played against yet turns it into a disadvantage.

Atlas_IRL

ah i have liverpool in my accumulater

futuredeath

debut of the century

Atlas_IRL

oh and Rooney's was

byte

Gwan Gonzalez!

Vokes

Basically doing what Zenden was failing to do - attacking the back post. Hope to see lots more of that from him come this season.

Guy:Incognito

Was just thinking giving him 5 mins at the end of a game for a debut was a bit harsh. But hey, what do I know.:D

futuredeath

not a bad result considering

kaimera

and the result was...?

Ronan|Raven

I wish I started putting money on my predictions! Liverpool will be gald of it, not as big as win as they would want but they will take it. Pennant if he can keep that form, hos crossing was amazing. Momo, wish his shot went in at the end I dont know how he gets those legs around the ball.

Broccoli (bocoli) seemed to have actors knee. To see, people give out about the italians, the isreali teams both national and club are the masters.

Vokes

Crap result goals-wise. Lots of players still don't look ready for the new season. Riise, Alonso, Zenden amongst others all looking like they lack match sharpness.

Sissoko looks like he's raring to go this new season. Finnan, Bellamy & Pennant looking decent as well.

Tusky

Ronan|Raven wrote:

Broccoli (bocoli) seemed to have actors knee. To see, people give out about the italians, the isreali teams both national and club are the masters.

I agree, he anoyed the hell out of me. Took Liverpool a long time to get going but once they did they were too much for the Israeli's. Very impressed with Pennant, I didnt realise he was so good, put rake loads of good crosses in the box. Also great to see Gonzalez & Bellamy score on their debuts. Bellamy ran his socks off, put in a lot of effort.

Only thing thats worrying me is the formation. Sissoko/ Alonso in the middle with Gerrard playing off Bellamy didnt really work...theres certainly alot of options available anyway.

mike65

I love Pennant!

I think Zenden is getting a harsh deal, he's not remotely match sharp. Alonso and Riise were the most off-colour given they are not carrying injury and have had plenty of rest in the last month (or two for Riise). Great to see Gonzales come on and score. Do we have the wingers to win the Prem?

Mike.

RE*AC*TOR

interesting night - a few liverpool heads not looking sharp /fit (Alonso, Riise, Finnan). Gerrard didn't seem to take to any of the positions he was played in. Great showing from the debutants though. Pennant was possible MOTM, I'll hold my hand up and say I hadn't seen much of him from Birmingham - but he looks like the business.

I think it will be a chopping and changing of the lineup this year. I still reckon two up front will be more productive, then you have to start dropping midfielders - who goes?

Ronan|Raven

Finnan and Pennant linked up and overlapped well. Zenden looks very rusty.

Vokes

Benitez would prob drop Pennant/Garcia. He won't drop Alonso or Gerrard & he loves Momo.

Tusky

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

I think it will be a chopping and changing of the lineup this year. I still reckon two up front will be more productive, then you have to start dropping midfielders - who goes?

Thats exactly it... Cant justify dropping Sissoko, Alonso or Gerrard. There are two options, playing Gerrard on the right (dropping Pennant) or playing him up front in support of the striker. Neither are to my taste really...

mike65

Can you have too many options? Yes.

---

Riena
Finnan---Carra---Hyypia---Riise
Penant

---

Sissoko----Gonzales

---

Gerrard

---

Crouch---Bellamy

My first choice if all fit and ready. Oh heck wheres Alonso?!

Mike.

Chucky the tree

Risse had a shocker. Always been a the worst of the back 4, looks like that wont change this season either. Sooner Aurielio(sp) gets fit the better.

zing

Crouch should grow a tachie - might have better luck finding the back of the net then

Pennant had a great game - stuck out wide where he was very effective but prob could have done a better job at attacking the back post whenever the ball was coming in from the left. Am delighted he gave so many of those who doubted his signing (myself included) something to think about.. Himself and the ever consistent Finnan linked up very well.

And on the other wing Zenden was fairly poor imo - wasn't just the match fitness thing - he just wasn't doing what Pennant was doing .. he just doesn't seem to stay out wide. If he had it would have stretched their defence out nicely. And from what I can remember of him from last season it was a simailar story then. Again could have done with attacking the back post a bit (like speedy did to bag his goal).

As already said - a whole bunch of players off full match fitness. 3 games to go (I think) before we face them again so hopefully the fitness will have improved by then.

However there a small matter of the clubs 4th trophy under Rafa first.

zing

Chucky the tree wrote:

Sooner Aurielio(sp) gets fit the better.

Don't get your hopes up - from what I hear he's first cousin to Kirkland, Kewell & Redknapp as far as being injury free goes.

Shred

Yeah Riise looked way off the pace tonight but I wonder exactly how much of Aurelio we'll see; he has been a bit injury prone over the last few years.

Very impressed with Pennant and Bellamy and I was delighted for Gonzales as he was a little dissapointing in preseason (as were 85% of the team I s'pose!). Zenden was doing well in preseason but he was playing mainly in the centre and I think this is his best position, but there's a lot of competition in there already and I don't see him being picked ahead of Momo/Alonso/Gerrard. I reckon Kewell when fit will play more in the centre off the striker too and Gonzales/Aurelio (if fit) will play on the left.

Oh and someone please show Crouch how to head a fcuking ball please!

spockety

Can't believe the lashing Zenden is getting, the guy has been out since last year! I thought he was competent enough in those circumstances, and besides which, Rafa has indicated he sees him in a central rather than wide role this season. Kewell, Gonzalez, and Riise will be the choices for the wing, probably in that order.

Pennant had an incredibly impressive debut, lost count of his crosses, and can't wait to see him about 8-10 games into the season. Bellamy looks like he could become a real crowd favourite.

el rabitos

he's getting a lashing because he was piss poor.

no penetration down the wing, granted he sucked at that when he was fit last year, but this time even when he did his usual drifting into midfield he just gave the ball away or else did nothing. i dont know what role he has at the club other than back up if the worst injury crisis occurs.

sissoko was motm imo, he put himself about well and broke up alot of the play. pennant was good too, made alot of space for himself and provided alot of crosses.

i liked bellamy when he actually stayed in the box but he has the baros disease of drifting either left or right and ending up in the corner flag. maybe he'd be better with a partner up front

Lemlin

Only saw the last half hour of the game but was pleased to see Bellamy get a goal on his competitive debut.

eirebhoy

mike65 wrote:

Can you have too many options? Yes.

---

Riena
Finnan---Carra---Hyypia---Riise
Penant

---

Sissoko----Gonzales

---

Gerrard

---

Crouch---Bellamy

My first choice if all fit and ready. Oh heck wheres Alonso?!

Mike.

Do you really think Alonso doesn't fit into Liverpool's best XI? I think Sissoko would be shown up if he hadn't got Alonso beside him. Sissoko seems like a Gattuso type player who gets himself around the pitch and always hassling the opposition. Alonso would be the Pirlo type player that sits in front of the defence spraying passes. Would Sissoko handle playing the holding role as he'd pretty much have to play that role in the above lineup? I think Liverpool would be left short in the middle and Gerrard would have to play in beside him rather than behind the strikers.

Tusky

eirebhoy wrote:

Do you really think Alonso doesn't fit into Liverpool's best XI? I think Sissoko would be shown up if he hadn't got Alonso beside him. Sissoko seems like a Gattuso type player who gets himself around the pitch and always hassling the opposition. Alonso would be the Pirlo type player that sits in front of the defence spraying passes. Would Sissoko handle playing the holding role as he'd pretty much have to play that role in the above lineup? I think Liverpool would be left short in the middle and Gerrard would have to play in beside him rather than behind the strikers.

At the same time, I think Liverpool would miss sissoko as much as they would miss Alonso. He does an awful lot of work for them all around the park. He also impressed me going forward today which is another element to his game.

Kulgan

Yea its hard to see Liverpool playing without Sissoko or Alonso and of course Gerrard can't be dropped so it looks like a lot of games with one striker up front at least when it comes to the more important matches.

el rabitos

it would be stupid to ever drop a fit gerrard, sissoko or alonso for any game, unless its just an easy win, and theres not many easy wins these days.

drop sissoko - lose the guy that get the ball off the opposition and restarts your attack

drop alonso - you lose your playmaker and best passer

drop gerrard - you lose your best attacker, your leader, the link between midfield and the forward(s)

i dont see any of them being dropped to accomodate any player. liverpool probably have the best midfield combination in the league, and their all young.

PHB

liverpool probably have the best midfield combination in the league, and their all young.

That's just silly, Makelele - Essien - Lampard owned them last year. Makelele - Essien - Mikel - Lampard - Ballack, any combination is way way better

Thanx 4 The Fish

I think that this is still pre-season as far as the pool are concerned, there is still a week to go until the season starts proper and I think that there are still a few lads out there who have heavy legs in there.

Pennant looked good mind, as did Bellamy and carragher, gonzalez certainly looks like he has a little bit in his locker too.

Tusky

PHB wrote:

That's just silly, Makelele - Essien - Lampard owned them last year. Makelele - Essien - Mikel - Lampard - Ballack, any combination is way way better

Wouldnt say they are way way better at all.

Gerrard
Alonso
Sissoko
Pennat
Gonzalez
Zenden
Kewell
Luis Garcia

If thats not the best selection of midfield players its certainy up there with Chelsea.

Kulgan

Yeah "way way better" is just a little over the top

astrofool

Gerrard to Lampard, Alonso to Ballack, Sissoko to Makalele? They're the only ones that are close, with Gerrard (imo) being a better player than Lampard, but Ballacj and Makalele right now are far better options to have then Alonso and Sissoko, and thats not forgetting Essien to replace Makalele when they need to.

Beyond that: Pennant -> drink driver, not good enough at Arsenal, has alot to prove

Gonzalez -> unproven so far

Zenden -> pushing on in years and has been injured

Kewell -> aka sits injured getting fat paycheck

Garcia -> frustrating player, who comes good at times

Whereas Chelsea have Robben, probably the best left winger in the world, Joe Cole, who has come of age, Mikel who is unproven (and hopefully flops ), SWP a player who was excellent two seasons ago, but can't even get into the team, and they still have Geremi in reserve.

Liverpool have a good midfield, and ultimately on the pitch its going to come down to tactics, and utilising the players well, and having a strong defence and attack around them, but only the most delusional pool fan would think that they can match Chelsea in the midfield on paper (atm, I don't think any other team in the world could match them).

Draupnir

Only Alonso or Gerrard could get into Chelsea's midfield from the Liverpool selection.

Every single one of Chelseas midfielders would walk into Liverpools team, as they would into every team in the world almost.

The Rooster

Liverpool's biggest problem in midfield is finding the right formation and picking the right players.

Arguably Stevie G is the best centre midfielder in the world, and he can't get a game in that position for Liverpool! I don't see how Frank Lampard would get into the Liverpool team at the moment. I certainly wouldnt pick him if he was added to the Liverpool squad. I wouldnt pick him in the Chelsea midfield either - Makelele, Essien, Ballack would be the best combination.

Makelele is the best in the world at the moment at what he does. But he'll never be as good as say Vieria was when he was at his best. Liverpool's plan is that within 12 months Sissoko will develop into a player similar to Vieria at his best. Sure if you were picking a team tomorrow you'd pick Makelele ahead of Momo, but given the potential future of both men, I'm glad Sissoko is a Red.

Jermaine Pennant will prove very quickly that he's at about the same level as Aaron Lennon. I bet Pennant did enough yesterday to persuade McClaren to pick him in his squad on Friday. Joe Cole has proven he can do it, Pennant is still unproven - but we'll see who has the best season. I've no doubt that Pennant and Lennon are better players than SWP.

zAbbo

Was there a game on, or a debate on who's midfield is better.

the 3 newcomers played well.

The formation needs to be ironed out.

Alonso has to play, as he takes the ball from defence and starts attacks.

Momo is a great battler, and showed last night he can drive forward(last 20mins)

I'd expect Rafa to play 2 up front at home in the future.

Emmo

Its not about who has the best individuals its about who has the best team.

The options Liverpool have in midfield would be enveyed by anyone.

Garcia might not be liked by anyone but he has scored 2 winners against Chelsea.

Alonso is a better passer of the ball than anyone Chelsea, United or Arsenal have.

Gerrard is wanted the world over.

Personnally I would not swap Momo for anyone. I think the improvements he has made in his game over the last 12 months is amazing. Going from destroyer and tackler to someone who pushes the game.

Super player and he was my MOTM last night, he will get another ton of them this season.

Emmo

zing

astrofool wrote:

Beyond that: Pennant -> drink driver

And wtf has that got to do with his ability to play football ?

If you're going comparing footballers then at least try and limit the comparisons to their abilities on the pitch.

event

The Rooster wrote:

I don't see how Frank Lampard would get into the Liverpool team at the moment. I certainly wouldnt pick him if he was added to the Liverpool squad. I wouldnt pick him in the Chelsea midfield either

are you mad?
you wouldnt pick frank lampard in your team, a man that scores nearly 20 goals a season consistently from midfield?

The Rooster wrote:

Makelele is the best in the world at the moment at what he does. But he'll never be as good as say Vieria was when he was at his best. Liverpool's plan is that within 12 months Sissoko will develop into a player similar to Vieria at his best. Sure if you were picking a team tomorrow you'd pick Makelele ahead of Momo, but given the potential future of both men, I'm glad Sissoko is a Red.

true, but i reckon essien will be better than momo

(not a chelsea fan btw)

RE*AC*TOR

I'd agree that I wouldn't pick lampard in the pool team - Makelele - yes - essien - maybe - if he could replicate his world cup form in the uk.

futuredeath

comparisons there are really stupid if your gonna compare ballack and lampard with alonso and gerrard,
you've got a problem,
because alonso is the odd one out as he's a different style of player,
gerrard is in my opinion better than lampard or ballack,
i'm not sure ballack is going to be a huge hit,
at this stage i'd much rather have sissoko than have makalele,
essien would be good cover for the liverpool team but thats all he'd be,
on the wingers front liverpool cant yet say we have anyone who comes close to robben but i'll just say that people should keep on eye on pennant and the other on mark gonszalez.

astrofool

zing wrote:

And wtf has that got to do with his ability to play football ?

If you're going comparing footballers then at least try and limit the comparisons to their abilities on the pitch.

Did your brain explode before you read the "not good enough at Arsenal, has alot to prove" bit? And I think sitting in a jail cell not being able to play football may impact on his ability to play football.

yom 1

astrofool wrote:

..... And I think sitting in a jail cell not being able to play football may impact on his ability to play football.

Dont be so stupid. It would only impact him if he was banged up for a year or two - not 2/3 months especially when it was a year and a half ago. I'm sure he got his touch back since then

Pennant would still be at Arsenal if he wasn't jailed and he would be in the team ahead of Hleb by now too. Pennant was excellant last night and showed exactly why Liverpool bought him and how much Liverpool have missed a right sided winger for the last few seasons.

RE*AC*TOR

astrofool wrote:

And I think sitting in a jail cell not being able to play football may impact on his ability to play football.

It certainly DID effect his ability to play football when he was in the jail cell. Probably not even enough room for a 5 a side.

However, I don't think his time spent in a jail cell in the past is going to effect his performance on the pitch now. Judging by last night's performance I don't see any problems anyway.

But you are right - he does still have a lot to prove.

zing

astrofool wrote:

Did your brain explode before you read the "not good enough at Arsenal, has alot to prove" bit? And I think sitting in a jail cell not being able to play football may impact on his ability to play football.

I completely agree that he has a lot to prove and don't question that at all. However I believe the drink driver reference is totally irrelevant and bringing it up was just a cheap shot. Why couldn't you have just said "not good enough at Arsenal, has alot to prove" ?

Yes Pennant served 30 days in prison and I certainly doubt he got to play much football during that time but a 30 day break is hardly that unusual for a professional footballer (e.g. summer holidays). But one would hope that the guy had enough sense to see the prison sentence as the biggest wake up call he's ever going to get in his life. I've absolutely no time for people who drink & drive but I do believe in giving people a second chance..

Jivin Turkey

Pennant definitely still has a lot to prove, but he looks an exiting prospect.

I also don't think his ability (or lack of) was the principle reason behind his departure from Arsenal. Wenger has never been fond of trouble makers, or young guys that like to hit the town, and has no problem in showing them the door. Look at Anelka for example. I think this was the main reason that he was let go,

Wenger makes few mistakes when signing promising young players, and I hope he struck gold again with Pennant. If he gets his head right he will be a fantastic signing for Liverpool, great going forward and not afraid to track back either.