Liverpool v Maccabi Haifa. on d'telly tomorrow

The Rooster

zabbo wrote:

The formation needs to be ironed out.

Alonso has to play, as he takes the ball from defence and starts attacks.

Momo is a great battler, and showed last night he can drive forward(last 20mins)

I'd expect Rafa to play 2 up front at home in the future.

I'd hope so, but its going to be difficult to pick what 4 play in midfield. Presumably there'll be plenty of interchange, including each of Stevie, Xabi and Momo taking time on the bench.

TBH, the way Xabi played last night, regularly coming all the way back to Hyypia and Carragher to get the ball off them, we could easily have played Alonso at CB with Bellamy and Crouch up front. I dont think we would have been any worse defensively and we'd have been a lot better going forward. Of course it would never happen as its too risky.

PHB

I was just talking about central midfield, where Chelsea basically have twice the squad of Liverpool.

Ballack and Lampard - Gerrard
Mikel - Alonso
Makelele and Essien - momo

way way better as a group, and better as a top choice.

To suggest that the rest of the midfielders are anywhere near Chelsea's class is a bit of a joke.
Robben, Cole, SWP, Kalou
compared to
Gonzalez, Pennant, Zenden, Garcia

Only one of those would have a shot at getting into the Chelsea team, and that's not based on his performances for Liverpool.

---

So back to the actual game. Is Cyprus gona be a tough test to Liverpool? They do have the away goal which is key, but does anyone think Liverpool aren't gona go through? It seems unlikely

spockety

Seriously, on what possible basis are you comparing Mikel to Alonso?

RE*AC*TOR

PHB wrote:

To suggest that the rest of the midfielders are anywhere near Chelsea's class is a bit of a joke.
Robben, Cole, SWP, Kalou
compared to
Gonzalez, Pennant, Zenden, Garcia

Only one of those would have a shot at getting into the Chelsea team, and that's not based on his performances for Liverpool.

I think that's rich coming from someone who thinks Rossi is the answer to all Manyoo's striking needs.

What has SWP done recently? What has Kalou done?

Zenden was Boro's player of the year before we bought him and then he got injured. Pennant put in more crosses than any other player in the Premiership last season. Gonzalez kept Sociedad in La Liga. Garcia can be frustrating, but he gets important goals and certainly contributes a lot more to Liverpool than SWP does to Chelsea.

I'll grant you that Robben is outstanding. But if you can have faith in Rossi - I certainly can have faith that Gonzalez is going to set the Premiership alight this season.

There isn't a vast difference in quality between the two sets of players, in central midfield or on the flanks. At this stage Liverpool and Chelsea have the most complete squads in the league.

Vokes

PHB, you can't really compare Kalou, he's been signed as a forward - thats where he played for Feyenoord last season, i think. (i know he can play as a winger)

PHB

I think that's rich coming from someone who thinks Rossi is the answer to all Manyoo's striking needs.

Please show me where I said that. I think with Smith Ole and Rossi, we can replace the goals lost by Ruud.

Zenden was Boro's player of the year before we bought him and then he got injured.

ROFL, considering you just said this,

What has SWP done recently?

SWP and Zenden were both out for the year in terms of playing, and the year before, SWP was a far better player than Zenden.

Garcia can be frustrating, but he gets important goals and certainly contributes a lot more to Liverpool than SWP does to Chelsea.

Indeed. Probably cause SWP didn't play much. Maybe compare him to Cole, who you seem to have ignored. Garcia is good for a magic goal, but is nowhere near the consistancy required to win a league.

Simply:

Robben vs. Gonzalez - Robben
Cole vs. Garcia - Cole
Kalou vs. Pennant - I honaslty don't know how good Kalou is
SWP vs. Zenden - SWP

There isn't a vast difference in quality between the two sets of players

There really really is, you'll be hard pressed to find anybody but a liverpool fan to suggest that the wingers Liverpool compare to Chelsea's in any respectable fashion.
Obviously in central midfield, the top midfield trio's of Liverpool and Chelsea are quite close.

PHB

PHB, you can't really compare Kalou, he's been signed as a forward - thats where he played for Feyenoord last season, i think. (i know he can play as a winger)

Yeh, I get the impression he plays as a forward rather than a striker, kinda like C. Ronaldo in terms of position, not quite a winger but not quite a striker.

RE*AC*TOR

PHB wrote:

Please show me where I said that. I think with Smith Ole and Rossi, we can replace the goals lost by Ruud.

"RoRoRo is the future"

PHB wrote:

SWP and Zenden were both out for the year in terms of playing, and the year before, SWP was a far better player than Zenden.

Well if you want to be really pedantic, Zenden played 17 matches for Liverpool before he got injured - and turned in some good performances and important goals. SWP has done feck all.

PHB wrote:

Indeed. Probably cause SWP didn't play much. Maybe compare him to Cole, who you seem to have ignored. Garcia is good for a magic goal, but is nowhere near the consistancy required to win a league.

You're probably right on that. But Garcia doesn't start every game. He's used appropriately by Benitez. In fact if you look at the premiership records for last season Garcia got a goal on average every 248 mins, Cole 311 mins. Garcia started more than half his matches from the bench as well.

PHB wrote:

Simply:

Robben vs. Gonzalez - Robben
Cole vs. Garcia - Cole
Kalou vs. Pennant - I honaslty don't know how good Kalou is
SWP vs. Zenden - SWP

Firstly - Gerrard Played most of last season on the right - so he should probably be considered in this group.

Robben Vs Gerrard - Gerrard
Cole Vs Garcia - the stats don't lie, but I'll give you that one - Cole
Kalou Vs Pennant - Pennant - proven premiership ability - Kalou more of a forward.
SWP Vs Gonzalez - Gonzalez - set La Liga alight, touted as best Chilean player in a generation. SWP hasn't achieved anything since leaving man city.
Zenden Vs No one - Zenden.

PHB wrote:

There really really is, you'll be hard pressed to find anybody but a liverpool fan to suggest that the wingers Liverpool compare to Chelsea's in any respectable fashion.

Without trying to get too silly, I'll give you Robben is the best proven winger between the two teams, but when you get down to the other players, I'd favour liverpool - especially as Duff has flown the coup now.

SWP? Does anyone rate him any more?

PHB wrote:

Obviously in central midfield, the top midfield trio's of Liverpool and Chelsea are quite close.

Yes.

herbieflowers

Er Chelski won't be playing with wingers this season, it'll be Lampard, Makelele, Essien and Ballack - probably. I think Liverpool's midfield is the best in the country (other than Chelski's of course).

I thought Liverpool played some nice stuff last night, Zenden didn't ciut it for me but he's probably just a bit rusty. First competitive match back and a win, not bad. What struck me was their bench: Crouch, Fowler, Garcia, Gonzalez - all very good players!

el rabitos

ok, i'm slow and getting on in age, so let me get this straight.

first you said....

PHB wrote:

I was just talking about central midfield, where Chelsea basically have twice the squad of Liverpool.

Ballack and Lampard - Gerrard
Mikel - Alonso
Makelele and Essien - momo

way way better as a group, and better as a top choice.

then you say this.....

PHB wrote:

Obviously in central midfield, the top midfield trio's of Liverpool and Chelsea are quite close.

so to begin with, chelsea's central midfield is 2 times better than liverpools.

THEN, not too long later the 2 midfields are "quiet close" in terms of ability.

i know u tend to talk alot of rubbish, but just out of interest, how many club games have you seen mikel and ballack and even kalou play?

having said that, theres no way of judging how well mikel (who's been playing in norway) and kalou (who's been playing in france) will do in the premiership, same goes for ballack, theres no way of telling right now if he will be able to impose his game in the premiership.

liverpools midfield is young, and has more experience in the premiership than chelseas, they also have the benifit of playing together before.

PHB

so to begin with, chelsea's central midfield is 2 times better than liverpools.

THEN, not too long later the 2 midfields are "quiet close" in terms of ability.

They aren't mutually exclusive, the 2nd comment was talking about the top trio, while the 1st was talking about the squad as a whole, where Chelsea are way way way better.

how many club games have you seen mikel and ballack and even kalou play?

Kalou none as I've admitted.
Ballack, about 10 times in the league, quite a bit in internationals and CL.
Mikel, I've followed him very closely since United's interest came, watched him in pretty much any game I can get my hands on. What was the term Jose used, 'liquid gold'

theres no way of telling right now if he will be able to impose his game in the premiership.

Much like Gonzalez. Infact, many would argue the move from the German league to the premiership would be alot easier than the move from La Liga, simply because of style of play.

Firstly - Gerrard Played most of last season on the right - so he should probably be considered in this group.

If so, are you going to take him out of the central midfield? In which case, the central midfield of Chelsea is much stronger. Personally I think Gerrard should play right wing, but Rafa seems to have set his stall out with the purchase of Pennant and from pre-season, and Gerrard is going to be a central midfielder this year.

In terms of wide players,
Robben and Cole are better than anything Liverpool have. The rest is open to much debate, but Robben and Cole are better than anything Liverpool have.

event

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Firstly - Gerrard Played most of last season on the right - so he should probably be considered in this group.

Robben Vs Gerrard - Gerrard
Cole Vs Garcia - the stats don't lie, but I'll give you that one - Cole
Kalou Vs Pennant - Pennant - proven premiership ability - Kalou more of a forward.
SWP Vs Gonzalez - Gonzalez - set La Liga alight, touted as best Chilean player in a generation. SWP hasn't achieved anything since leaving man city.
Zenden Vs No one - Zenden.

though you're changing it putting gerrard out there

in that case, chelsea's central midfield wins with lampard/ballack/makelele/essien against momo/alonso

and technically you should compare the same side to each other, leaving out gerrard as he isnt a winger

left wing
robben vs gonzalez - robben wins. And gonzalez played 12 games. he has done well yes, but to say he set it alight?
cole/swp vs garcia/pennant/gerrard - gerrard beats them all, but if you leave him out, id take both of chelsea's

i like the way you compared SWP to gonzalez and kalou to pennant

how about SWP vs pennant - id take SWP. had a bad season last year, even though did well when he played, and pennant had an average one. how many of those 'most crosses into the box' were headed out by the first man? If a striker has the most shots, what does that mean?

and

kalou vs gonzalez - neither proven

Jivin Turkey

So that Macabbi Haifa lot, what does anyone think about them in comparison to Chelsea's midfield?

ButcherOfNog

Jivin Turkey wrote:

So that Macabbi Haifa lot, what does anyone think about them in comparison to Chelsea's midfield?

I think that Chelsea's midfield would be 2 times better that Macabbi, yet also very close in overall ability.........................

Bacchus

PHB wrote:

so to begin with, chelsea's central midfield is 2 times better than liverpools.

THEN, not too long later the 2 midfields are "quiet close" in terms of ability.

They aren't mutually exclusive, the 2nd comment was talking about the top trio, while the 1st was talking about the squad as a whole, where Chelsea are way way way better.

I'm sorry but no. You said in plain balck and white that chelsea's "central midfield" is 2 times better than liverpools.
Here's the quote..

PHB wrote:

I was just talking about central midfield, where Chelsea basically have twice the squad of Liverpool.

Then you said

PHB wrote:

Obviously in central midfield, the top midfield trio's of Liverpool and Chelsea are quite close.

That's a big case of changing your argument and hoping noone notices.
Now you're trying to say that the 2nd comment was about the trio in midfield - fair enough, it was - but the 1st was about the whole squad! Now you're having a laugh. That comment was about the midfield, not the whole squad.

Okay, now I'v that off my chest.... continue...

herbieflowers

liverpools midfield is young, and has more experience in the premiership than chelseas, they also have the benifit of playing together before.

Would you seriously rank it better than Chelsea's?

el rabitos

herbieflowers wrote:

Would you seriously rank it better than Chelsea's?

if your asking would i play any of chelseas midfield in place of sissoko/alonso/gerrard, then the answer is no.

my original post that started this was stating, that imo, the combination of sissoko/alonso/gerrard was possibly the best midfield unit in the premiership. i never mentioned wingers or anything, just those 3.

now in terms of chelsea, kalou, mikel and ballack are nobodys to me. they've dont nothing. tbh, i havent seen much more than 5 bayern matches with ballack playing, and i've never seen kalou or mikel. i highly doubt that anybody here advocating these players is going on much more than hype. i know relatively nothing of ballack other than a few champions league, some internationals and the odd bayern game i've seen, i'll judge how good he is and if he justifies the hype when i see him play a few games.

but basically what i'm saying is, if your talking up how great chelseas midfield is, when in truth most people havent seen any of these players play any great amount of matches, then tbh your talking through ur arse.

if hype and potential were all u needed, spurs would be domintating english football

Jivin Turkey

el rabitos wrote:

if your asking would i play any of chelseas midfield in place of sissoko/alonso/gerrard, then the answer is no.

That is because you can be as bad as PHB sometimes when talking about your own club.

el rabitos wrote:

now in terms of chelsea, kalou, mikel and ballack are nobodys to me. they've dont nothing. tbh, i havent seen much more than 5 bayern matches with ballack playing, and i've never seen kalou or mikel. i highly doubt that anybody here advocating these players is going on much more than hype. i know relatively nothing of ballack other than a few champions league, some internationals and the odd bayern game i've seen, i'll judge how good he is and if he justifies the hype when i see him play a few games.

If you haven't seen Ballack play more than five times then I suggest you shut your mouth. Did you not watch WC2002? Where he pretty much dragged a woeful German side to the final kicking and screaming? Not remember him destroying Liverpool's hopes in the CL back in 2002? He's got a lot more notches on his belt than a few seasons with Bayern.

He's a midfielder who has scored 31 in 70 internationals for Gods sake. He's good in the air, has two immaculate feet, incredible vision and and incredible strike.

Sure I hope Chelsea sign Ronaldinho, I've only seen him a few times he must be no good.

el rabitos

Jivin Turkey wrote:

That is because you can be as bad as PHB sometimes when talking about your own club.


If you haven't seen Ballack play more than five times then I suggest you shut your mouth. Did you not watch WC2002? Where he pretty much dragged a woeful German side to the final kicking and screaming? Not remember him destroying Liverpool's hopes in the CL back in 2002? He's got a lot more notches on his belt than a few seasons with Bayern.

He's a midfielder who has scored 31 in 70 internationals for Gods sake. He's good in the air, has two immaculate feet, incredible vision and and incredible strike.

Sure I hope Chelsea sign Ronaldinho, I've only seen him a few times he must be no good.

if i'm comparable to phb for club support then your comparable to lemlin for ur constant bitching like and oul wan.

i dont care what ballack means to you or if you have a foot fetish for his immaculate feet. to me, i havent seen enough of him to be blown away, i dont need you to roll off his records and all that jazz. and no i didnt see him in the 2002 world cup.

i'm sure he's great on his day and all that, i just havent seen him play for any consistant amount of time, how do you know if he doesnt just dissapear during the less important games? i'm sure he got more time on the ball in germany to express himself than he will in the premiership. i'm reserving judgement until i see him play, you seem to have an issues with that, tough sh!t?

p.pete

Back on topic, did anyone else thing Riise played really crap last night?

el rabitos

p.pete wrote:

Back on topic, did anyone else thing Riise played really crap last night?

yeah he wasnt looking too sharp really, wasnt getting forward much either. just needs a couple of games maybe

p.pete

Aye - the commentators were saying he was getting a tough time from the guy he was marking I think - but in fairness as a player Riise's main attributes is that he's strong and doesn't take too much crap, and is generally fit enough to get up and down the line.

As far as I can remember his position in the team always seems to be under threat at the start of every season, this year the obvious threat being Aurelio. So I hope he's fit enough to start putting some pressure on him soon, having said that, Riise normally makes the position his one or two months into the season.

el rabitos

well there was an interview with riise on either the official site or sky sports, not sure where i read it, and he was saying that rafa told him he see's aurelio as more of a left winger...so, i suppose we'll have to wait and see how that pans out.

p.pete

Maybe - can't say I know the player all that well. Thought he'd been used already in pre-season as leftback? Left midfield Zendon was played last night but apparently he's more seen as a central midfielder. Gonzo was then brought on and he's definitely seen as left winger. Add a fit (possibly ) Kewell into the mix and that's a lot of left midfielders to consider Auelio to not be competing at left back.

el rabitos

aye, i dont see it myself either tbh. aurelio is pretty injury prone himself, so riise might not have much of a battle on his hands. at least aurelio was a free transfer so he's not as much of a disaster as kewell

Lemlin

el rabitos wrote:

if i'm comparable to phb for club support then your comparable to lemlin for ur constant bitching like and oul wan.

Leave me out of this one please. I was just pleased to see Bellamy score. I'd prefer not mention Liverpool or we all know what happens.

The rest of your post was inane drivel so I won't even attempt to answer it. Never seen much of Ballack, you mustn't of watched much of this or the last World Cup, and have missed quite a few Champions League games over the past few years. It's hard to believe but I'm finding myself agreeing with Jivin on this one.