'Plot to blow up planes' foiled

Dirk Gently

The_Scary_Man wrote:

He also hinted at new anti-terror laws that would require the public to "modify some of our own freedoms in the short term in order to prevent their misuse and abuse by those who oppose our fundamental values and would destroy all of our freedoms in the modern world"

Speaking of modifying freedoms to prevent misuse by the enemy it seems that applies to legal defense teams too. Just slipped under the news Radar recently but Judges will now have increased powers when dismissing defense teams in terror trials if they feel the defense is slowing the process down. The judge can dismiss the defense team and get a whole new team in. Very dangerous move IMO. If it’s hard to prove someones guilt and the trial is dragging out the Judge can just dismiss your legal team and get in a less stubborn defense team.

Innocent until we can find someone too incompetent to defend you?

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote:

clown bag and co i would wonder if you would all be so sceptical if you had to spend the next 5 days in London city as opposed to speculating in front of a computer screen

No doubt I would feel very different if I was caught up in the middle of it all but I think that’s the whole point. I don't feel under threat so I ask questions. If I felt in danger I would be more likely to support drastic measures. I would probably be of the opinion that we should go after the "terrorists" and get them at all costs because they are attacking me. The reason I'm sceptical is because of all the other dramatic false alerts at just the right time to swing public opinion and also because we know deception is part and parcel of the "war on terror". Dodgy dossiers, false intelligence........ I just want to actually see solid intelligence to back up the reasons for all these dramatic security scares which do so much to change public opinion.

Flukey

Well, it proves yet again that the so-called "war on terror" does not exist, but the "war for terror" goes from strength to strength. What I mean is that the activities going on are provoking more terrorism rather than stopping it. Ask the people in London, Madrid and Bali, amongst other places, if the "war on terror" is working. Things are getting worse, not better and the terrorists are being given more reasons, from their perspective, to attack and more propaganda to use to gain recruits.

As we have seen in many places, including Ireland, the way to tackle terrorism is to address the causes, not the perpatrators. Until that is done, nothing will improve. Dropping food parcels in places like Iraq and Afghanistan would do far more damage to Al Q'aida and co than bombs, which are like manna from heaven for them. Every bombed dropped is yet another propaganda victory for them, as another chance to say "look at what they are doing to us, let's get them back."

Helping the ordinary people over there would eliminate that propaganda and begin to hack into the support for the terrorists. Iraqis and Afghanastanis were never going to welcome the allies as liberators when their people are being killed and their homes being destroyed and they are turned into refugees and ripe for terrorist recruitment people. I want all this to stop, but until the underlying causes are tackled, like they were in Ireland and South Africa and other places, nothing will improve.

The plan was to blow up planes in mid-flight using liquid-based explosives. Of course we will now get the usual, "this proves why we should be in Iraq and other places" from the usual suspects on this board, where in reality it proves what being there is doing and how it is increasing the threats that people are under. Will they ever learn? Probably not. Fortunately nothing has happened today and I hope that nothing else does in the future.

Sponge Bob

The securocrats found a 'recipe' for a chemical bomb which is mixed up on the plane itself .

In order for it to be effective 3 chemicals need to be mixed a la James Bonds standard martini order .

They then found some characters in possession of or in suspected possession of or allegedly searching for one of these chemicals (the unusual one in the mix )

There will be no flying with hand baggage between uk- ireland and uk anywhere in europe for a week or so while they put detection systems and procedures in place or so it seems. They only have enough people to search baggage for long hauls until they get a full handle on this 'threat' or alleged 'threat' .

Its also possible that there will be a complete shutdown of Ireland-EU routes by tonight or that hand baggage screening will move outside the terminal in Dublin for capacity reasons. They have to make their minds up before the busy weekend.

It is additionally possible that all UK-Ireland and UK-EU car ferrys will also be affected , stay tuned.

Sgt. Sensible

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

Strange kind of fellow is Reid. Do our fundamental values include hobnobbing with war criminals?

Your point caller?
I highly doubt that Reid would have been aware of Radovans murder fetish back then...
Many UK politicians or those who would become politicians may have crossed paths with undesirables or even feted them at one point or another.Mugabe being one example.

So have people in general,its normal.I've known people who have been sent to jail for crimes,I wouldnt have put them down as capable of,(and I've subsequently changed my opinion of them) ,however by your logic,I'm a strange sort of fellow...

If you want to continue this discussion take it to another thread-this ones for the discussion of a terrorist plot.

MiniMetro

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote:

clown bag and co i would wonder if you would all be so sceptical if you had to spend the next 5 days in London city as opposed to speculating in front of a computer screen

Couldn't agree more. The way some of them are going on you'd swear there hasn't been any terrorist attacks for years. It's all part of the supposedly "lefty"(sceptical about police protecting innocent lives) attitude going around at the moment. "Lefty":"Yeah man I'm so against the war on terror, it's just so not right" Reasonable voice: " So you think that police should have left these 18 or so "loveable rogues" to their own devices?" "Lefty": "Well man I'm just so sceptical myself, people have rights ye know man, ye know"

The islamic extremists will not stop when "the war on terror" has stopped. They have made it clear that they disagree with everything that the West stands for and all our ideals and practices.

metrovelvet

This makes me want to get on a transatlantic just to be defiant.

Look at all the things you cant bring with you now. You cant even bring water on board now.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060810/ts_nm/transport_ba_dc;_ylt=AtFG5Zxu8JJTZkVAZ5ROMiFbbBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3NmxuamZjBHNlYwNyaGw-

coffee_cake

MiniMetro wrote:

Couldn't agree more. The way some of them are going on you'd swear there hasn't been any terrorist attacks for years. It's all part of the supposedly "lefty"(sceptical about police protecting innocent lives) attitude going around at the moment. "Lefty":"Yeah man I'm so against the war on terror, it's just so not right" Reasonable voice: " So you think that police should have left these 18 or so "loveable rogues" to their own devices?" "Lefty": "Well man I'm just so sceptical myself, people have rights ye know man, ye know"

The islamic extremists will not stop when "the war on terror" has stopped. They have made it clear that they disagree with everything that the West stands for and all our ideals and practices.

I for one do acknowledge the need for a lot of security, I just don't think that the recent attacks mean that the police etc can do what they like under the excuse of anti-terrorism if it's not backed up. I don't see what the fuss is - if they had evidence for it and reasonable cause to arrest them then we've said we'd be happy with it. If they don't have evidence and decided to do this as a ploy, then there's an issue. That's all. I'm assuming they must have something since some massive conspiracy on this scale does seem a little pointless, it's just a question of what the evidence was, I guess.

I agree with whoever said they should possibly drop aid instead of bombs since more violence is hardly going to show fundies that violence is wrong. It just gives them more of a cause. At some point it's probably going to turn into a game of who can bomb who the most effectively.

solskjaer20

Small point.....

I always though the BBC didn't use the word "terrorist".

Or did they do away with that?

Trotter

Just wondering.. Im due to fly into Edinburgh from Dublin on saturday. I presume I'll have to check in my phone and a few bits and pieces. Its an Aer lingus flight.

Would ye think the flight will go ahead, and will we be charged full whack for checking the bags in?

To be honest I dont mind putting up with the security procedures. Its necessary.

Dirk Gently

bluewolf wrote:

I'm assuming they must have something since some massive conspiracy on this scale does seem a little pointless, it's just a question of what the evidence was, I guess.

The point of a manufactured threat would be to get public support for the war on perceived terror. Nothing like a good reminder that there are bad guys out there to get the public on side. Alerts like this lead to attitudes like....... "These terrorists hate our way of life, we must get them before they get us" and any calls for restraint are dismissed as "hippy left wing liberal nonsense".

If people are cynical it's only because of so many flimsy and bogus terror alerts in recent years and they always seem to happen when the U.S. or U.K. governments are under pressure. It's up to the Governments to convince us skeptics because they are guilty of crying wolf once to often and have demonstrated that they don't mind knowingly misleading the public when it comes to hyping up the terrorist threat.

If I seen convincing justification for all these dramatic opinion swinging alerts I would be less cynical. Expect hatred for anyone labeled a terrorist by the Governments to increase and expect those calling for more restraint to be ridiculed as lefty hippy conspiracy theorists.

It's a bit early to expect the intelligence services to justify this latest security alert but I hope in the coming days they are more convincing than they have been in the past. It could well turn out to be justified but I just want to see that Justification as it has been lacking in past dramatic scares.

Flukey

MiniMetro wrote:

The islamic extremists will not stop when "the war on terror" has stopped. They have made it clear that they disagree with everything that the West stands for and all our ideals and practices.

Yes, but they might stop when a war on terror starts. As I said above it has not yet done so. From where they are sitting, with bombs raining down on innocent people who have nothing to do with any terrorism, the West stands for that kind of destruction. Until that changes, and real problems are dealt with, of course they are going to attack. Deal with the causes of terrorism, not the perpatrators. 25 years was spent trying to tackle the IRA, with no real success, and with each attempt just getting more recruits for them. It was only when they started talking and dealing with the underlying issues that things began to improve. It is not peaceful yet, but we are a lot better off than in the 70s and 80s and early 90s. Things have improved in South Africa since apartheid was addressed.

Nothing justifies what any terrorist ever does, but it does happen and they feel justified. It is not our freedoms that they are against or anything like that. Most wouldn't know where the west is or much about it. They can see things going on in their own countries though, which the godfathers of terrorism can then use as recruitment excuses. If you were an average Iraqi, would you welcome your house being bombed? If you were in the Lebanon now and your house was levelled, would you, on seeing Israeli troops coming in, go through the rubble of your house, find a kettle, light a fire to boil water and make them some tea? I doubt it. You might however feel like getting back at them. It isn't justified, but that is what is happening. Some former peace-loving people, having seen their homes destroyed and familes and friends killed, will turn to terrorism. It has happened all over the world, including Northern Ireland.

We have to change the perception that people have of the west, by addressing the issues that they have. That is not pampering to terrorism. As has been proved the world over, it is the best way to tackle it. It is not easy and it is a simplistic idea, but until the perception of the west changes, nothing will change, except to get worse. There is no excuse for terrorism, but if we can remove the things that people use as excuses, we will do far more damage to terrorism than any bomb can ever do. If we can address the day to day issues that people have in the middle-east and be seen as a positive influence, then it will make it far more difficult for terrorists to recruit. When that begins to be done, we will have finally fired the opening shots in the war on terror.

metrovelvet

Do you know how much money airlines and businesses lose when this happens? Do you honestly think authorities make this **** up? When are you going to accept that these dicks want US and British citizens to die?

clown bag

clown bag wrote:

If I seen convincing justification

The bombs in London last year werent enough for you? Or the details of who the bombers were ala the new breed of home grown loonie?

for all these dramatic opinion swinging alerts I would be less cynical.

Personally I've never swung my opinion on Alqueda,its always been the same.

Cardinal

Skeptics are very quick to assume that every "foiled terrorist plot" is some attempt and garnering support for a reduction in civil liberties. What do ye think is the governments motive in wanting to reduce civil liberties? How is it of benefit to the government?

The_Scary_Man

MiniMetro wrote:

Couldn't agree more. The way some of them are going on you'd swear there hasn't been any terrorist attacks for years. It's all part of the supposedly "lefty"(sceptical about police protecting innocent lives) attitude going around at the moment. "Lefty":"Yeah man I'm so against the war on terror, it's just so not right" Reasonable voice: " So you think that police should have left these 18 or so "loveable rogues" to their own devices?" "Lefty": "Well man I'm just so sceptical myself, people have rights ye know man, ye know"

I love the way the "Lefty" says "ye know" and "yeah man" a lot and he's debating with the "Reasonable Voice"

Look I haven't seen anyone here saying that we should allow potential terrorists to roam free. For my part I am asking the question "Are the US and UK governments using the threat of terrorist attacks to further their own agendas?"

This has happened before, I remember having this same debate with some friends after Forest Gate. I realise that I'm not privy to all the information but who is?

The islamic extremists will not stop when "the war on terror" has stopped. They have made it clear that they disagree with everything that the West stands for and all our ideals and practices.

This is just paranoid bull****, you do realise that there are christian fundamentalists in influential positions in the US government who advocate invading sovereign states, overthrowing their governments and replacing them with US style democracies? They don't mind how many die along the way because they disagree with everything that Islam stands for and all its ideals and practices. So how is one extremism and the other is discussed as government policy?

There are extremists on both sides of this conflict and thankfully they are in the minority. Its the reponsibility of the rest of us to try to push for a viable alternative solution to this conflict.

gandalf

I am glad that this plot has been uncovered and foiled. What I am saying is they should release proper details about it so people will not get cynical and believe the conspiracy theories that all this is being done to propagate a feeling of fear.

What this should do is hopefully aid the demise of Blair, confirming that his lapdoggery has made the UK an even bigger target than it was before.

Flukey has hit the nail on the head, until you address the issues that create the support for these extremists you cannot win the "War on Terror". The fact these extremists have forced the authorities hands and have them changing laws means they are winning the "War on Terror".

All the current misadventures are doing is making sure the next generation of extremist nutters have plenty of support for their actions.

Flukey

Flukey wrote:

25 years was spent trying to tackle the IRA, with no real success, and with each attempt just getting more recruits for them. It was only when they started talking and dealing with the underlying issues that things began to improve.

I'll agree with the talking to them point but as regards the IRA stopping their bombing,I'll say that was entirely due to the fact that (a) it didnt suit Sinn Féins political ambitions and (b) the clamp down in the U.S on terrorism was going to bleed the IRA's support there dry.

The_Scary_Man wrote:

This is just paranoid bull****, you do realise that there are christian fundamentalists in influential positions in the US government who advocate invading sovereign states, overthrowing their governments and replacing them with US style democracies? They don't mind how many die along the way because they disagree with everything that Islam stands for and all its ideals and practices. So how is one extremism and the other is discussed as government policy?

There are extremists on both sides of this conflict and thankfully they are in the minority. Its the reponsibility of the rest of us to try to push for a viable alternative solution to this conflict.

I'd like to think,that ultimately in the west and even America that reason overcomes extremism eventually including its influence in government.
Reason ruled for the most part under Clinton.
Today look where Bushes ratings are? They are in the toilet where they should be.Theres always an ultimate sanction towards elected political extremism in a democracy.
Theres none with the likes of Alqueda and thats a very important distinction.

Remember any action I've seen lately from Alqueda especially in the west has been a deliberate visit of death and distruction on civilians,innocent women and children.
Theres no ambiguity whatsoever.They are lead by total lunatics past the point of talking.
Those in the general populus who are sometimes misled by that madness guidance are at least the ones that we should be talking to and thinking about accomadating in my view.

bill_ashmount

clown bag wrote:

If people are cynical it's only because of so many flimsy and bogus terror alerts in recent years and they always seem to happen when the U.S. or U.K. governments are under pressure. It's up to the Governments to convince us skeptics because they are guilty of crying wolf once to often and have demonstrated that they don't mind knowingly misleading the public when it comes to hyping up the terrorist threat.

If I seen convincing justification for all these dramatic opinion swinging alerts I would be less cynical. Expect hatred for anyone labeled a terrorist by the Governments to increase and expect those calling for more restraint to be ridiculed as lefty hippy conspiracy theorists.

Madrid and London bombings???? Or were these made up by the government as well for their own ends....

TheAlmightyArse

"We've got to get these mother****ing hand-luggages off this mother****ing plane!"

With apologies to Mr. Samuel L. Jackson.

daveg

I think they will release details once the dust has settled and they are sure that they have foiled the plot (and plan B is not about to be enacted).

I think it's time for a drastic change to all airline security. Whatever is takes to make flying safe. If that means no hand luggage so biet. Mandetory finger printing on passports.

I was listening to a anti-terrorism expert on the radio today (the guy who is always on sky news). Seems that it is pysically impossible to seach all handluggage. In the USA (he said) ALL checked luggage is hand checked. I found this hard to believe (even though I have winessed it in LAX). Semmingly handluggage is dangerous because the most vunerable part of an aircraft are the windows/fire on board. If that happens on a plane it is going down.

At the end of the day my opinion is they should now take drastic action to ensure flying is as safe as possible.

Dirk Gently

Earthman wrote:

The bombs in London last year werent enough for you? Or the details of who the bombers were ala the new breed of home grown loonie? .

Do the London bombings justify everything without question. This new homegrown loonie might be a reaction to seeing their own people indiscriminetly killed by us in the west and not some un provoked pre planed hatred for western culture. Are they any more loonie than us in the west indiscriminetly bombing innocent people in the middle east or do we just assume they are more loonie because we dont have bombs dropping on us all the time and can't work out why they do it.

Earthman wrote:

Personally I've never swung my opinion on Alqueda,its always been the same.

Yes but when people who thought they were relatively safe and questioned the war on terror think they are under threat from some unknown group then their opinion will change. Support in the UK is dangerously low for the war on terror, security scares will increase that support. All I ask is for is the reasons for each alert to be substantial and made public. Also Al queda seems to have become a by word for every terrorist act committed. Is it not possible that increased terrorism is a direct result of increased State terror carried out by the coalition of the willing? Is it not possible that the actions of western Armies have created a whole new breed of terrorist separate from the simplistic view that Al queda hate the west and are out to get us? Has terrorism increased or decreased as a result of UK and US actions and what is the cause of that increase in terrorism.

We think we are justified in bombing them indiscriminately and expect no retaliation. They think the same about us. Who are the loonies and who is justified in going after the other?

I'm not saying this is a false security scare, I'm saying there have been false scares in the past and deliberate misleading intelligence in order to sway public opinion so I await the intelligence services evidence.

Tyrone

I am glad to see the Brits are staying on top of the game and protecting their people and all of us non combat combatant civilians from these Muslim radicals.

I laugh when I read some of these posts. All these nations have a big conspiracy
going on so they can take away your rights and put you into jail under the guise of the war on terror.

Why would a rational nation spend millions or billions of dollars on airport security, slow their own economy, and make hundereds of thousands of passengers waste hours in an airport just to board.

Do any of you have a clue as to how many lifetimes are wasted each day in airport delays. Take 500,000 people and that is a low number BTW, delay each for 2 hours each day and you now have wasted one million hours. If a person lives to be 74 then he would have 648,240 hours of life. This dose not include the time and expence wasted by airport personal.

Millions of people travel each day via airplane all over the world and many lifetimes and their economic value are lost due to the actions of these Muslim radicals.

We have the apeasers here that want to give them food thinking that will
stop the violence. Ya right. These radicals are taught that any non muslim
is the enemy and below them. All should be killed.

Some of you people better think again. We are talking about Muslim radicals
that have no problem killing men, women or children that are not of their faith. Just how many military personal do you think they are targeting on commerical aircraft. They arn't.

Some of you bi*ch about how we treat prisioners. How do they treat prisioners? They beat them half to death and then wack off their heads.

And you want to give them food in the hope they will stop! Good luck

The only thing I would give them is a bullet in the head.

Smellyirishman

Tyrone wrote:

Muslim radicals.

Has any information been released that would lead you to believe this? Or are you jumping to conclusions, much like the skeptics?

metrovelvet

Tyrone wrote:

I am glad to see the Brits are staying on top of the game and protecting their people and all of us non combat combatant civilians from these Muslim radicals..

Me too.

Tyrone wrote:

I laugh when I read some of these posts. All these nations have a big conspiracy
going on so they can take away your rights and put you into jail under the guise of the war on terror...

Denial is powerful.

Tyrone wrote:

Why would a rational nation spend millions or billions of dollars on airport security, slow their own economy, and make hundereds of thousands of passengers waste hours in an airport just to board. ...

Exactly. Everything in the US is about money and profit. These scares are counterproductive to that. They would not be retarding the growth of business unless it were very seriously plausible that lives were at stake.

Tyrone wrote:

Do any of you have a clue as to how many lifetimes are wasted each day in airport delays. Take 500,000 people and that is a low number BTW, delay each for 2 hours each day and you now have wasted one million hours. If a person lives to be 74 then he would have 648,240 hours of life. This dose not include the time and expence wasted by airport personal. ...

They have no idea because they live off student grants and are too busy figuring out the next excuse for why their essay is going to be late.

Tyrone wrote:

We have the apeasers here that want to give them food thinking that will
stop the violence. Ya right. These radicals are taught that any non muslim
is the enemy and below them. All should be killed....

Yes. If your not going to be Muslim, you're not going to live! Kill the infidel.

Tyrone wrote:

Some of you bi*ch about how we treat prisioners. How do they treat prisioners? They beat them half to death and then wack off their heads.....

Dont you know? Its acceptable when they do it or when they slice off heads and broadcast it on the internet. Oh boo hoo, poor terrorists being victimised by big bad America.

clown bag

clown bag wrote:

Do the London bombings justify everything without question. This new homegrown loonie might be a reaction to seeing their own people indiscriminetly killed by us in the west and not some un provoked pre planed hatred for western culture.

Reread the bit where (and here I elaborate) placing bombs on buses and trains is undeniably and unambigously indiscriminate murder

Are they any more loonie than us in the west indiscriminetly bombing innocent people in the middle east

yes they are more loonie as their approach is to 100% bomb civilians.

or do we just assume they are more loonie because we dont have bombs dropping on us all the time and can't work out why they do it.

I go on their actions,thats how I judge most things.

Yes but when people who thought they were relatively safe and questioned the war on terror think they are under threat from some unknown group then their opinion will change.

It's no different to what the IRA were up to when they bombed in England,the bombers were in cells and unknown individuals for the most part.It's human nature to be fearfull and it is right that the public are told as the public can be vigilant.It's not as if the madrid and the London bombs didnt happen.

All I ask is for is the reasons for each alert to be substantial and made public.

Patience is a virtue,seldom in a woman but rarely in the internet poster it would seem.Did you really expect the police to have a news conference before they arrested the 20 guys explaining what they were up to? Perhaps you would also expect that we all contribute to the get away soon cards and the flowers ?

Also Al queda seems to have become a by word for every terrorist act committed.

you're being funny now right? Who has championed madrid,London and 911? thats right AlQueda.

Is it not possible that increased terrorism is a direct result of increased State terror carried out by the coalition of the willing? Is it not possible that the actions of western Armies have created a whole new breed of terrorist separate from the simplistic view that Al queda hate the west and are out to get us? Has terrorism increased or decreased as a result of UK and US actions and what is the cause of that increase in terrorism.

I'm sure all that is possible and I've addressed a view on that in previous posts( regarding Bushes ratings being in the toilet and our ability to turf out politicians that constantly persue unpopular policies )

We think we are justified in bombing them indiscriminately and expect no retaliation. They think the same about us. Who are the loonies and who is justified in going after the other?

I'd place more faith in democracy than I would in the lunacy of Alqueda to be frank with you.I'd agree that some loonies do get elected but at least we can turf them out.
As regards Islamic extremists,I'd be of the view that they're loving it[the mistakes of the supposed war on terror] as they get fuel for their world view that the whole world should be ran like the taliban used run Afghanistan.

Flukey

Tyrone wrote:

We have the apeasers here that want to give them food thinking that will stop the violence. Ya right. These radicals are taught that any non muslim is the enemy and below them. All should be killed.

Some of you people better think again. We are talking about Muslim radicals that have no problem killing men, women or children that are not of their faith. Just how many military personal do you think they are targeting on commerical aircraft. They arn't.

No one is talking about appeasing them, we are talking about cutting their support from under them. You are right, that they are taught to hate the west and that the west is the enemy, but when the same west is dropping bombs on ordinary people it is very easy to convince people that that is the case.

You are also right that they are targetting civilians, not military people, but then it is mostly civilians that are being killed in their countries too. It is then some of the civilians that survive that support or join the terrorists.

If a bomb dropped on your house today and many friends and relations were killed, what would you do? Write a letter of thank you to those that did it? Think what wonderful people they are? Are the Lebanese people fleeing their homes, stopping to post letters of thank you to Ehud Olmert? Did the young men of Iraq and Afghanistan that survived bombings there get out a pen and write love letters to Condoleeza Rice? I'd hazard a guess that they were more likely to use their pens to sign up to the local terrorist organisation.

We have to stop the terrorists. Attacking them and killing them just adds more reasons for them to attack and swells their numbers. The best way is to undermine their support and remove reasons that they can use to recruit support. Positive actions in the Middle East will do more damage to the terrorists than any military response can ever hope to. Those actions only increase terrorism. Since the military responses in recent years terrorism has increased, not decreased. In other words, it is not working. But then anyone could have told you that, and many did. The so-called war on terrorism is in fact a war for terrorism and it has led to increased attacks, not a decrease. The time for a different approach - which should have been adopted decades ago - should now be adopted. When a war on terrorism does begin, I will support it. The precedents are there, not least in Ireland, so that is what should be done. It is not appeasement.

jrey1981

While I dont doubt the need to put public safety first, you cannot blame people for smelling the whiff of convenient propaganda.

Since the "45 minutes from attack" headlines and the charade of the tanks at heathrow and manchester airports, what do you expect?

Dirk Gently

Earthman do me a favour and take your own advice and go and re read my posts.

me in case you missed it wrote:

It's a bit early to expect the intelligence services to justify this latest security alert but I hope in the coming days they are more convincing than they have been in the past. It could well turn out to be justified but I just want to see that Justification as it has been lacking in past dramatic scares.

You are either deliberately misinterpreting my posts to suit your response or else you are not reading carefully enough.

I also go by actions, that’s how I judge things too. This is why I don't believe everything British and American intelligence say because they have knowingly lied in the past to hype up a threat.

The simplistic view that every act of terrorism inflicted on the west was un provoked and carried out by a Muslim nutter for no other reason except that we are not Muslims is the same narrow mindset terrorists have about the wests intentions towards their innocent civillians.

This

---

>could be a genuine terror threat<

---

or it could be hyping up a terror threat like they have done in the past or it could be bad intelligence like they are prone to also. I just want to find out which before I start calling for increased action in the war on terror which is actually counter productive in wanting to cull the number of terrorists anyway.

LostinBlanch

An interesting timeline of events of the last month. Make of it what you will.

• mid-July 2006 - Israel bombards Lebanon; Bush + Blair refuse to condemn the action, after all it's all part of the "war on terror"
  
• late-July 2006 - Court of Appeal rejects HM Govt's latest "anti-terrorist" proposals (again)
  
• August 1 2006 - HM Govt reorganises and makes public for the first time the level of the "terrorist threat" to Britain.
  
• August 6 2006 - Home secretary John Reid is widely quoted railing against immigrants and immigration - "the biggest threat western govts face"
  
• August 7 2006 - press tipped off about imminent speech by Reid about terrorist threat to Britain
  
• August 8 2006 - ceasefire talks over Israel-Lebanon all but break down at the UN
  
• August 9 2006 - Reid makes said speech, effectively telling everyone who disagrees with the govt's stance on "terrorism" as "f***ing stupid"
  
• August 10 2006 - major terrorist alert at Heathrow and other airports, inconveniencing thousands upon thousands, arrests made across the south, recently-made-public terrorist alert announced as being in highest state: "critical".
  
• August 11 2006 - ?

Like other posters I would like to see that this isn't merely a case of crying wolf in order to deflect attention from HM Govts own troubles. The next few days should tell.

Tyrone

Flukey, did anyone inform you that it isn't just the west that has been struck by these Muslim radicals? Several countries outside the west that have never even fired a shot have been struck. So there goes your argument.