'Plot to blow up planes' foiled

Tchocky

Tyrone wrote:

Flukey, did anyone inform you that it isn't just the west that has been struck by these Muslim radicals? Several countries outside the west that have never even fired a shot have been struck. So there goes your argument.

Today's particular threat has affected the airports of the UK - hence flukey's post about the west.

The fact that other regions have suffered from terrorism in no way degrades from flukey's argument

sovtek

Earthman wrote:

I'd place more faith in democracy than I would in the lunacy of Alqueda to be frank with you.I'd agree that some loonies do get elected but at least we can turf them out.
As regards Islamic extremists,I'd be of the view that they're loving it[the mistakes of the supposed war on terror] as they get fuel for their world view that the whole world should be ran like the taliban used run Afghanistan.

I guessed you've missed all the somewhat recent attempts by the loonies to decrease democracy and implement radical changes to laws that protect our rights. Do you not think that it very well might be in an attempt to keep them from getting turfed out?

Have you also missed where Bin Laden and other known terrorists voice opposition to western foreign policy and its effects on their part of the world, namely using war as a means to the west own ends in the Middle East?

sovtek

Tyrone wrote:

Flukey, did anyone inform you that it isn't just the west that has been struck by these Muslim radicals? Several countries outside the west that have never even fired a shot have been struck. So there goes your argument.

I'm not sure what incidents you are referring to but if I'd guess it would be places like Bali and Turkey...or maybe Egypt?
If that is what you are referring to do you remember the intended targets in those incidents? They were western in nature.

Heyes

im quite suprised at the cynical responces from people through out this thread. I suppose i expected most to be thinking that this is a job well done where by the possibilities was prevented, however it comes across that most appear to believe that there is a sense of sharade about whether this in fact was an actual threat or whether it was a sense of making the public aware of possibilities and make the public also believe that yes the government is always watching potential threats.

Although im suprised i suppose its a route i never thought about thinking, there is always the possibilities that the information we are provided with is not nessessarily actually fact but more so information that we are just been told and it is accepted that we believe.

However when it comes to incidents like this i am more inclined to believe what i see and read on the news, tbh its better to be on our toes than be all relaxed about potential threats. So either way i do believe it to be a job well done by the british / us governments.

Tchocky

Much sig conflict there Heyes?

Heyes

Tchocky wrote:

Much sig conflict there Heyes?

Not really,just mentioning potential aspects, but end result is just how i see it - a job well done in prevention of potential threat

Tchocky

Heyes wrote:

Not really,just mentioning potential aspects, but end result is just how i see it - a job well done in prevention of potential threat

I think we'll have to wait a while, until all the details (within reason) are known.

Then it's a pat on the back

Dirk Gently

Heyes wrote:

most appear to believe that there is a sense of sharade about whether this in fact was an actual threat or whether it was a sense of making the public aware of possibilities

Based on past actions by both the Middle Eastern terrorist groups and also by the western intelligence services both are possible and neither possibility would surprise me. Some of us are just keeping an open mind but others in the thread want to attack those of us with an open mind by calling us stupid, or asking are we being funny or saying we all live off student grants and don't know what we're talking about.

Flukey

Tyrone wrote:

Flukey, did anyone inform you that it isn't just the west that has been struck by these Muslim radicals? Several countries outside the west that have never even fired a shot have been struck. So there goes your argument.

No it doesn't and yes I do know plenty about this. We need to address the underlying problems, that is what has to be done. We can keep trying to bomb them out of existence. You may have noticed, but that doesn't work. It makes things worse, increases recruits and increases attacks. Is that what you want? It has indeed extended to countries beyond the so-called west, but is that not an indication of an increasing problem? the Mullahs are been given loads of propaganda ammunition to strike out. They have their agendas and they are being given plenty of excuses to push it forward with support from oridinary people. That is what we have to cut into.

Where do muslim radicals come from, and I don't mean what countries? All terrorism is created by circumstances. There are people that would have you believe it all started on September 11th, as if on the night before the lads were all sitting around wondering what they'd do the next day. They ruled out fishing or a day at the beach and then Muhammed Attah suggested "Hey lads, let's fly a few planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and the Capitol Building."

Looking closer to home, the IRA wasn't always there and didn't pop up out of nowhere for no reason. It then went from strength to strength. Things like Bloody Sunday only swelled their support and brought young men that would not have even dreamed of doing so into terrorism. As they said Ian Paisley and Margaret Thatcher were the greatest recruitment officers that the IRA ever had. There are a number of reasons that it all stopped, but a key one was when the underlying problems were addressed. The west, and others, can be powers of good and influence in the Middle East. That is the best way to tackle it.

People said that 9/11 was the start of the war and called on revenge. The truth is more the case that the war had started decades before that and that was the revenge. We have to look at why it happened and why it continues to happen and why it has got worse (which by pure coincidence might have something to do with war in Iraq and Afghanistan) and when those questions are properly answered and those answers addressed, then things will improve. Or would you prefer to go on and see more of these type of attacks. I don't want any more of them, but until we address the real causes they will. Ask the people in New York, London, Madrid, Bali, Baghdad, Haifa etc. etc. etc. if terrorism is stopping.

We have to deal with the perpatrators of course, but to stop it, we have to deal with the causes. The perpatrators aren't the cause, but just the results.

Heyes

Tchocky wrote:

I think we'll have to wait a while, until all the details (within reason) are known.

Then it's a pat on the back

True I suppose your right there, as your correctly said its early days.. so will wait and see

Tyrone

I am telling you this is a big conspiracy between the British, Isreal and America.

There is no threat what so ever!

Hop on that unprotected flight to any place that pleases you. Get on that train
or subway with no protection what so ever. Go where you want to go. You will never have a problem because there are no threats!

When you gambel long enough the odds are in your favor.....LOL

See Ya on the Other Side!

metrovelvet

I have to fly to California next week! ahhhhh......

Thank you Manhattan! Thank you Long Island! for throwing all that money at Isreal and putting our lives at risk.

Heyes

clown bag wrote:

Based on past actions by both the Middle Eastern terrorist groups and also by the western intelligence services both are possible and neither possibility would surprise me. Some of us are just keeping an open mind but others in the thread want to attack those of us with an open mind by calling us stupid, or asking are we being funny or saying we all live off student grants and don't know what we're talking about.

I think its probable better to keep an open mind on things, as for calling you stupid, i think its a lack of knowledge that leads to some people saying things like that. I for one dont have a lot of knowledge so i wont stand here and start mouthing off on things, however i believe everyone is entitled to there opinion no matter what information is put in front of them. Sure if everyone thought the same on everything in life then the world would be a very boring place to live.

Tchocky

Tyrone wrote:

I am telling you this is a big conspiracy between the British, Isreal and America.

There is no threat what so ever!

Hop on that unprotected flight to any place that pleases you. Get on that train
or subway with no protection what so ever. Go where you want to go. You will never have a problem because there are no threats!

When you gambel long enough the odds are in your favor.....LOL

See Ya on the Other Side!

Ah yeah, freedom of travel. Filthy liberal rubbish

billy the squid

Has the Bush administration had an embarrasement recently?

These foiled terror plots tend to pop up not long after the White house has been made look stupid or gotten caught up in some sort of scandal.

Their stance on the Lebanon/Israel thing might have triggered it.

Evil_Bilbo

Just a quick question:

if the muslims are attacking because they are "nutters" and "loonies" who hate everything and everyone that is not muslim, why are they only attacking countries who are currently involved in "bringing freedom" to their countries (i.e. us/uk/spain etc)

if they're just anti-christian, why dont they attack some countries that would be an easier target? (e.g. italy/ireland/greece?)

They are attacking uk and us for a reason - be it revenge for bombing them, or taking over their country or just some other wierd reason that nobody has copped yet - its not because they are all "MAD".

All you hear is "loonie/nutter/brainwashed/insane/unhinged" when referencing these extremists - instead of trying to find the reason they are doing these attacks. I'm sure they have a "cause" (whatever it may be), just like the IRA had.

I'm obviously not supportin them, but in fairness they must have a half decent cause if there's so many people willing to give their lives for it (and dont give me any sh!t about "40 virgins waiting for them and their families in heaven"). This cause needs to be addressed and rectified if the situation is ever to improve.

The reason this has not been addressed is that governments are happier when they are at war. (go read 1984 - it makes sense).

To address the original issue here though - I honestly dont mind whether any hard evidence comes up - as long as its not a total scam on behalf of the government I'm glad to think that they would be ready to act fast like this if I'm in heathrow the next time this happens.

Flukey

Of course we need to be vigilant and aware. Security, increased so in recent years, is needed. We need to deal with the problem too and reduce the actual threat.

Tyrone

metrovelvet wrote:

I have to fly to California next week! ahhhhh......

Thank you Manhattan! Thank you Long Island! for throwing all that money at Isreal and putting our lives at risk.

Metrovelvet, you could always take a slow boat to China!

As long as your going to California, why not Surf your way over there?

Nothing but Sharks to worry about then.

Have a Great trip my friend.

sovtek

sovtek wrote:

I guessed you've missed all the somewhat recent attempts by the loonies to decrease democracy and implement radical changes to laws that protect our rights. Do you not think that it very well might be in an attempt to keep them from getting turfed out?

I think,theres no democratic obstacle stopping your fellow country men exchanging a far right neo con with a more liberal democrat...

Have you also missed where Bin Laden and other known terrorists voice opposition to western foreign policy and its effects on their part of the world, namely using war as a means to the west own ends in the Middle East?

Dont care what they say to be honest,they are of little worth in my opinion,I've made my mind up on the drivers of Alqueda.
speaking to moderates is the way to go.

billy the squid

billy the squid wrote:

Has the Bush administration had an embarrasement recently?

These foiled terror plots tend to pop up not long after the White house has been made look stupid or gotten caught up in some sort of scandal.

Their stance on the Lebanon/Israel thing might have triggered it.

I doubt it Billy.
If that were true,we'd have today every other day.It's been a while since we've had a today and iirc the last one did result in death and distruction.

Flukey

While security is needed, things are getting ridiculous. No liquids would include duty free I suppose. If you really go the full way, what can't be used as a weapon? Any piece of clothing could be. You could strangle anyone with such items. You could stab someone with a key, apparently still allowed.

The naturists may like it but eventually we will all have to be totally naked going on flights. Even then, you could have something dangerous stuck up your arse, or for some people, even breaking wind would be dangerous. Maybe they will develop something like that. You eat or drink something before heading to the airport. Within a few hours it builds up a toxic substance in your arse. Then, in mid-air, one fart and disaster. You will then have to have your arse amputated to get on a plane. Of course it will save the need for seats so Ryanair will be able to cut costs and put even more people on a plane!:rolleyes:

dathi1

mid-July 2006 - Israel bombards Lebanon; Bush + Blair refuse to condemn the action, after all it's all part of the "war on terror"

late-July 2006 - Court of Appeal rejects HM Govt's latest "anti-terrorist" proposals (again)

August 1 2006 - HM Govt reorganises and makes public for the first time the level of the "terrorist threat" to Britain.

August 6 2006 - Home secretary John Reid is widely quoted railing against immigrants and immigration - "the biggest threat western govts face"

August 7 2006 - press tipped off about imminent speech by Reid about terrorist threat to Britain

August 8 2006 - ceasefire talks over Israel-Lebanon all but break down at the UN

August 9 2006 - Reid makes said speech, effectively telling everyone who disagrees with the govt's stance on "terrorism" as "f***ing stupid"

August 10 2006 - major terrorist alert at Heathrow and other airports, inconveniencing thousands upon thousands, arrests made across the south, recently-made-public terrorist alert announced as being in highest state: "critical".

August 11 2006 - ?

I agree......Sky News has just announced that Reid and co knew about this for the last couple of weeks. The plot may be for real but the timing is suspicious. I expected a backbench leadership challenge whilst Blair was away especially since the MOD MP resignation last night. He also said more where to follow. Cue today.

fly_agaric

Evil_Bilbo wrote:

They are attacking uk and us for a reason - be it revenge for bombing them, or taking over their country or just some other wierd reason that nobody has copped yet - its not because they are all "MAD"..

Oh they are "MAD" alright. Completely nuts (from a normal person's perspective).
But actions of the US/UK/Israel are feeding the sickness, making more people listen to them...

Flukey wrote:

eat or drink something before heading to the airport. Within a few hours it builds up a toxic substance in your arse.

Hate to be flip, but those kinds of biological/chemical weapons are old hat. Used em myself to clean out a room at times.


BTW - I'm surprised at the level of cynicism about this terror alert.
If all its just a tool to keep people afraid - its a very, very expensive and inconvenient way of doing so.

Whatever the reasons behind the phenomenon, the IslamoLoons do actually exist, and they do have a track-record and thirst for blood unmatched by any other crowd of non-state actors/terrorists I can think of.

Flukey

There can be terror alerts like that to ratchet up the tension and support for governments or as diversions from other issues, but it is not always the case. Having said that, America has always had a hate figure that they used as a way of justifying policies such as the cold war and arms race. Over the years we had any Russian leader and people like Castro. Of course Osama Bin Laden is one of the modern ones.

Of course there was that sleight of hand in January 2002. From September 2001 until then, Osama was public enemy number 1. Then, in the State of the Union speech, suddenly it became Saddam Hussein, and Osama was almost forgotten. Of course a war against Iraq was long planned, going back to daddy's time. September 11th gave an ideal opportunity and reason to further justify it, but it was always going to happen.

clown bag

clown bag wrote:

Earthman do me a favour and take your own advice and go and re read my posts.




You are either deliberately misinterpreting my posts to suit your response or else you are not reading carefully enough.

Well the quote you've just repeated was not in the post I quoted from you and on top of that,my entire reply to that post was in the context of that post.Thank you for directing me to your more reasonable request though.

I also go by actions, that’s how I judge things too. This is why I don't believe everything British and American intelligence say because they have knowingly lied in the past to hype up a threat.

There is absolutely no comparison whatsoever to the war in Iraq in what is going on today in Britain.
Why? Simply because from last years bombing and Madrid we have definite proof that AlQueda are planning these atrocities as well as their modus operandi and who they are using etc.
Comparing that to the lead up to the Iraq war and the subsequent revelations regarding poor inteligence is absurd.

The simplistic view that every act of terrorism inflicted on the west was un provoked and carried out by a Muslim nutter for no other reason except that we are not Muslims is the same narrow mindset terrorists have about the wests intentions towards their innocent civillians.

This

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>could be a genuine terror threat<

---

or it could be hyping up a terror threat like they have done in the past or it could be bad intelligence like they are prone to also.

Well I dont recall the london metropolitan police and their counterparts being involved in the debacle that was the WMD claims...If they are as bad as that,I'd suggest people in the Uk may stay in at night and rarely go out at daytime because well the wrong people 100% of them are in prison...

I just want to find out which before I start calling for increased action in the war on terror which is actually counter productive in wanting to cull the number of terrorists anyway.

Well the only increased action I've heard called for so far is clear plastic bags for your wallet and passport and no hand luggage.I for one support that,it should have been done long ago.
I'd be hoping that due process rather than Guantanamoesque process is applied to the 20 or so arrested this morning.We shall see.

Ciaran500

Earthman wrote:

you're being funny now right? Who has championed madrid,London and 911? thats right AlQueda.

Al Queda didn't plan the madrid bombings

Flukey

**********COMEDY ALERT*******************
George Bush is shortly due to speak on today's events.
****************************************

Ciaran500

Earthman wrote:

Well the only increased action I've heard called for so far is clear plastic bags for your wallet and passport and no hand luggage.I for one support that,it should have been done long ago.
I'd be hoping that due process rather than Guantanamoesque process is applied to the 20 or so arrested this morning.We shall see.

You think we shouldn't be able to bring laptops, Ipod's, PSP's, DS's, magazines, news papers, our own water onto a plane?

Trode

Flukey wrote:

Where do muslim radicals come from, and I don't mean what countries? All terrorism is created by circumstances. There are people that would have you believe it all started on September 11th, as if on the night before the lads were all sitting around wondering what they'd do the next day. They ruled out fishing or a day at the beach and then Muhammed Attah suggested "Hey lads, let's fly a few planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and the Capitol Building."

We have to deal with the perpatrators of course, but to stop it, we have to deal with the causes. The perpatrators aren't the cause, but just the results.

Saying that all muslim terrorists are just wronged innocents reacting in anger is just as naive and simplistic as saying they are all evil and hate us. The fact is that many of these groups do have a ideological motives, and consider western society an affront to their beliefs that must be eradicated. Remember, the average suicude bomber isn't a poor man who's lost everything to an American bomb, he's a relatively affluent college student brought to the cause by by like-minded peers. Look into Sayid Qutb, one of the founding thinkers of modern radical Islam. Know what great American evil drove him to his hatred of the west? Teenagers having sex. The fact is,more often than not these are not the kind of people who can be bought off, and not the kind of people we should be seeking a compromise with.

For all of you out there who don't think Governments use terror alerts to mould public opinion then please watch this very enlightening BBC documentary

The Power of Nightmares < click to watch

This documentary argues that during the 20th Century politicians lost the power to inspire the masses, and that the optimistic visions and ideologies they had offered were perceived to have failed. The film asserts that politicians consequently sought a new role that would restore their power and authority. Writer Adam Curtis, who also narrates the series, declares in the film's introduction that “Instead of delivering dreams, politicians now promise to protect us: from nightmares”. To illustrate this Curtis compares the rise of the American neoconservatives and radical Islamists, believing that both are closely connected; that some popular beliefs about these groups are inaccurate; and that both movements have benefited from exaggerating the scale of the terrorist threat.