Supporting your rivals?

KdjaCL

Heh


I still dont get this, as seen here most EL fans are supporting the El teams in Europe some for their own ends(coefficents) but mostly supporting the EL in Europe as sort of brotherhood.

I for one could never ever ever want teams Pats play against weekly to win tosses let alone matches, now maybe im just a bitter old Pats fan but i have never seen a Man Utd/Celtic/Arsenal fan cheer for Pool/Rangers/Spurs or any fan in any league want their rivals to win for the benefit of the league.

Now sometimes as a football fan you just want certain teams to win in certain games ie Pool/Utd Cl finals and if anyone ever watches a match on TV they always find themselves hoping the underdog wins if their team isnt playing. But can you hope the teams you play every week win? Its just wrong.

Regardless of EL/PL/SPL can you ever really support your rivals? I mean we play Derry away on sunday i was secretly hoping for some key injuries But i am supposed to as Pats fan.

In my opinion El fans supporting each other in Europe is kind off seen as a group of people shouting "see we not ****". As some way to say to the EL naysayers as a 2 fingers up gesture. But thats just my opinion on the subject not actual fact

kdjac

eirebhoy

Surely you don't want to hear people saying that the Eircom league is rubbish, etc?

For example:
http://forum.bettingadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=51599&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

1.90 is fantastic value, the bookies in Britain such as william hill go 1.50 Gretna!

The Irish league is a very poor league and although Derry beat Gothenburg, it was a fluke due to Gothenburgs overconfidence.

Gretna beat Hamilton 6-0 at the weekend and i would be shocked if they aren't good enough to beat Derry City

Gretna @ 1.90 9/10

The best team in Ireland?

So what? Hardly difficult is it considering the opposition.

As soon as I read those comments I couldn't wait to reply after tonights match. Scottish people are the worst. They always slag off the EL, it must be some sort of inferiority complex. The vast majority of Celtic supporters were up for Derry though.

This is a guy from Lithuania replying:

ScottishFitba, Vagus, Delfino and others, I think you learned a new lesson today. I simply cant understand people, who dont refresh their knowledge now and than. Irish teams are improving. End of story.

If a Lithuanian gets a little angry with people underestimating the EL then surely fans of the league are going to be.

KdjaCL

eirebhoy wrote:

Surely you don't want to hear people saying that the Eircom league is rubbish, etc?
If a Lithuanian gets a little angry with people underestimating the EL then surely fans of the league are going to be.

I generally as a rule dismiss anyones opinion of something they have never seen as bollix. Im not an EL fan, im a Pats fan so really dont care what people think of the EL, whether they support it or not.

So EB did you support Rangers in getting your coefficent up to the stage where you get straight into the groups of the CL ?


kdjac

_blank_

We have a very different situation in this country though. The Eircom League is a very poorly supported league among the general population, who would rather support a foreign league, many claim some kind of affinity with a city hundreds of miles away from where they are actually from.

They sit on stools in bars for the most part, cheering at Sky TV and openly mocking, rolling their eyes to heaven and saying some very ignorant things about the league that is happening on their own doorstep (yes on their doorstep, relative to where the matches they watch week in week out are being played). It annoys supporters of the Eircom league, as I'm sure you are aware. I mean, look at some of the comments about the Gretna Derry match these last few days, on here, on other forum sites, the media and by the general non-eL supporting public.

In a way eL supporters are a brotherhood (or sisterhood (or sisterhood)). We should band together to try to educate the ignorant. We should support our own, because god knows, there are plenty out there who immediately write us off with their ill informed views and downright offensive comments.

Yes, we have our rivalries week in week out, it's what keeps us going, they are real, they mean a lot to us, but it's also good to see our rivals do well, especially if it means some of these people will sit up and take notice, maybe even start coming to games and supporting real football.

Some people will never be won round, and I'm happy to leave them wallowing in their ignorance, but those that do take notice, I'd like them to think we are a friendly, welcoming bunch.

Now, I'm sure Einsturzende is having a fricking great night over there, I wish i was there tonight.

A Dub in Glasgo

KdjaC wrote:

So EB did you support Rangers in getting your coefficent up to the stage where you get straight into the groups of the CL ?


kdjac

Don't know about eb, but I certainly did not. Hopefully Hearts will get lumped out of the CL so that all the TV money for Scotland will go to Celtic.

KdjaCL

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Don't know about eb, but I certainly did not. Hopefully Hearts will get lumped out of the CL so that all the TV money for Scotland will go to Celtic.

Thats the spirit


kdjac

eirebhoy

KdjaC wrote:

So EB did you support Rangers in getting your coefficent up to the stage where you get straight into the groups of the CL ?

Certainly not. I'd prefer the Rangers fans to be down in the dumps over anything else. I do care about the perception of the quality of the SPL though and I'd love to see someone like Hibs go far in Europe.

KdjaCL

seansouth wrote:

Yes, we have our rivalries week in week out, it's what keeps us going, they are real, they mean a lot to us, but it's also good to see our rivals do well, especially if it means some of these people will sit up and take notice, maybe even start coming to games and supporting real football.
.

Have to ask, why do you care what these people think or do or say about the EL? Only way you will get people to games is too bring kids or as i have found recently Polish people

We play Derry on sunday, would i be right in saying you wouldnt mind us winning but also would chuckle if we got hammered 5-0 ?


kdjac

Illkillya

I will always support the Irish teams in Europe - nothing to do with Eircom League or coefficients, although that is a bonus, but because they are Irish! When Newcastle are playing I like to see Duff/Carr/Given doing well, and when Derry city are playing I want to see all of them doing well. As much as you try to hype a bitter rivalry among EL teams, aside from maybe the Dublin teams, there is no genuine animosity between most groups of fans, least of all towards Derry City. There is no reason why I would want them to lose in Europe unless they were playing Cork City.

gustavo

Even away from the co-efficients thing and proving that the League is decent pov's I would still support the Irish teams in Europe because they are representing Ireland in a way and I would always support and Irish team in international competition

Edit Illkillya expressed my opinions totally:)

evad_lhorg

im a big man utd fan but i support players and teams i enjoy watching. I supported liverpool and arsenal in their champions league runs because i really like some of their players and Arsenal were a team I knew couldve taken the teams they went up against and I still believe they could have won the final if the red card didnt hapen. ifs and buts.....


When it comes to football I want to be entertained. when i watch match of the day or super sunday i want to be entertained. if liverpool are playing man utd yea ill obviously want Utd to win and give them a good beating but i dont care about other games once im entertained and if me being entertained is Arsenal kicking the crap out of Real madrid or Juventus then so be it. I dont care who wins a competition after man utd are gone. EXCEPT when it involves Chelsea. I just dont like em. yea i know everyone hatedd United when they were always on top but they did it by themselves not with the backing of a billionaire. Chelsea as we all know just buy all the top players as if they are creating a team in a computer game or somethin. I hope it all goes to shít now just like madrid have.

gustavo

yeah those Real Madrid guys must be wondering where it all went wrong when they see Cannavaro , Van Nistelrooy and Emerson run out for them at the start of the season.

PHB

I support one team, and everything revolves around that. That said, I like to see the spirit of that team in other clubs, so I was rooting for Spurs this year to come 4th, rooting for West Ham cause they played nice football, etc. etc.

I will always want Liverpool and City to lose, unless it directly helps United. So if Liverpool are against Chelsea in the premiership, I'll nearly always support Liverpool.

GuanYin

PHB wrote:

so I was rooting for Spurs this year to come 4th.

and not because they were competing directly with Arsenal, who play far superior football :rolleyes:

WhiteWashMan

eirebhoy wrote:

Certainly not. I'd prefer the Rangers fans to be down in the dumps over anything else. I do care about the perception of the quality of the SPL though and I'd love to see someone like Hibs go far in Europe.

hibs?
the only other catholic team about.

are you sure this isnt all about religion with you people?


however, with the topic at hand, ive often beenseen shouting for arsenal, pool and evn utd depending on who they are playing and what the competition is. i have no idea, but maybe its different if youre inthe competition yourself?

would pool fans shout for utd if they didnt get through thte first round proper?
probably not.
me, im a die hard spurs fan, i always have and i always will be. that doesnt mean that i hte every other team out there. what i do like is a good game of football first and foremost when spurs arent involved. and if teams that spurs play against every yer are playing, i like to think if they do well, it refelects on my club for being in the same league.

super_furry

I couldn't support Bohs no matter what was at stake - anyone else I would.

The Rooster

WhiteWashMan wrote:

hibs?
the only other catholic team about.

Funny that probably Hibs most famous fans are the Proclaimers brothers (protestants). Maybe someone should tell them they are a "catholic team". Or maybe thats ancient history you're talking about....

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

WhiteWashMan

The Rooster wrote:

Funny that probably Hibs most famous fans are the Proclaimers brothers (protestants). Maybe someone should tell them they are a "catholic team". Or maybe thats ancient history you're talking about....

dunno, ask the celtic fans.

Töpher

seansouth wrote:

Now, I'm sure Einsturzende is having a fricking great night over there, I wish i was there tonight.

Came away from that with my jaw on the floor and overjoyed, can only begin to imagine how a Derry fan felt. I'm quite sure some of them needed a change of underwear!

Jivin Turkey

Seansouth that post makes me want to vomit.

Particularly

seansouth wrote:

We should band together to try to educate the ignorant.

seansouth wrote:

supporting real football.

seansouth wrote:

I'm happy to leave them wallowing in their ignorance

But to top it all you say

seansouth wrote:

I'd like them to think we are a friendly, welcoming bunch.

you must be able to see America from up there.

_blank_

:rolleyes:

Nice bit of selective editing at the end there.

soma

I always support all EL teams in europe - In particular I've been to many bohs european games (as a shels fan).

The Irish "football fans" who ridicule Irish teams drive me nuts

Töpher

How could you not want to be in the middle of this?!

johnos

super_furry wrote:

I couldn't support Bohs no matter what was at stake - anyone else I would.

Mutual, almost, although its hard to achieve reciprocity on this with a First Division outfit .
Shels also would be a bridge too far for me, as would any team with professional player-breaker Alan Reynolds in it. Otherwise, I'm happy to see national league teams do well, especially when it upsets the script of the 'gulf in class' merchants of gloom.
Great sig by the way. Agree 100%.

Jivin Turkey

seansouth wrote:

:rolleyes:

Nice bit of selective editing at the end there.

There is no selective editing there. You said everything I quoted.

You should be thanking me for trimming your post down and only highlighting small parts of it because if I quoted the whole thing it would only make you look more pompous and arrogant.

Bateman

Don't understand all the eL cheerleading to be honest. Don't really care what Eastern Europeans think of the league. Don't really give a toss for Derry fans either, and all the self-congratulating they go in for, but there's no doubting it's a great result for the league, and Derry become the first team since the Big Club to win successive away fixtures in Europe.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

It's rivalry. I'm a Liverpool fan, so I'll support any English team in Europe bar Man U (no offence, like I said - just rivalry - I'm sure there are Man U fans who think the same in reverse).

EL - No alligance, will cheer all Irish teams equally.

Scotland - Will (would!) gladly cheer Rangers because I don't like the political/religious stance taken by Celtic fans. Was overjoyed Hearts got in, hope they take AEK, but that's more of an underdog thing.

Oh, the psychology!

super_furry

Shels was a tough one actually. I went to their Champions League qualifier with Steaua Bucharest but just couldn't get behind them, the fact that it was a poor game that was there for the taking for them if they had chased it didn't help.

gimmick

I honestly cannot understand Premiership fans shouting down other Premiership teams in Europe. But then, many of these people hate the English national team etc.

When it comes to supporting rivals, well I was particularly dissapointed Drogs got a semi decenmt result last night, as I hate them more than any team I have ever hated in Irish football, and i will be quite happy in seeing their inevitable demise in the next 18 months. Glad for Derry, but wouldn't have had made the journey to see them.

Irish clubs need other Irish clubs to do well, but not so we get the fickle masses through the turnstiles, but so we get to see big European nights more often in Turners Cross, Dalymount etc. I honestly dont really care for the barstooling masses anymore, as for one thing, they just annoy me with glib, superior and concescending attitudes.

Anto McC

We have a common enenmy!

eirebhoy

WhiteWashMan wrote:

hibs?
the only other catholic team about.

are you sure this isnt all about religion with you people?

Maybe it is about religion but that's pretty much a one sided thing. Rangers wouldn't have a minutes silence for the Pope, they boo any Irish player that plays for Celtic and there was even a dozen or so Rangers fans thrown out of the Gretna match last night because they were singing anti-Irish songs towards Derry fans.

The death of non-footballing figures tends to only be marked when they are of national, or international, significance. In the UK this tends to include members of the Royal Family, such as Diana, Princess of Wales, the Queen Mother, and perhaps the occasional politician.

It was the fluidity in these arrangements and protocols which led to Celtic fans observing three separate minute silences to mark the premature death of the immensely talented ex-Rangers player Davie Cooper.

So, with the death of The Pope, it seems a no brainer that a nation which is 25% Roman Catholic, and probably 90% Christian, would have no problems with paying their respects with a minute silence.

After all, if over 4 million people, including 200 world leaders, ranging from the current and two former US Presidents, through all branches of the Christian faith, to the President of such a staunchly Muslim country as Iran, can attend the funeral in person; and nations around the world can hold their own ceremonies, encompassing all faiths, then a Christian nation, which the Pope visited in his prime, should surely embrace the opportunity for a short public display or respect?

The first opportunity came within hours of the death of The Pope. The game: Motherwell versus Rangers. A minute silence? No. Instead the nation was treated to the Rangers fans singing one of their 'football' songs, No Pope Of Rome.

"No no pope of Rome
No chapels to sadden my eyes
No nuns and no priests and no rosary beads
And every day is the twelth of July"

Classy, huh? Since Scotland is in the midst of a long overdue crackdown on bigotry and sectarianism, you'd have expected action. Arrests at the game? Outrage in the newspapers for the next few days at least? Questions in Parliament? Rangers punished by the football authorities?

Not. A. Thing. Nothing. Almost no mention at all. Quite simply, people expected it from Rangers fans, and tolerated it.

more...

Hearts had a minutes silience for the Pope nut you can hardly call it silence when a load of the crowd booed it.
The Queen mother died not so long ago and Celtic had a perfectly good minutes silence for her. You may think I'm being biased but the bigotry in Scotland is mainly one sided. Celtic fans couldn't really care about religion or race. Celtic's most succeful manager, Jock Stein, was protestant. His Celtic playing and managerial career started in the 50s. It wasn't until 1989 that Rangers signed their first Catholic player (that's not just coincedence, they purposely wouldn't sign a player if he was catholic before then). It wasn't until 2006 that they employed their first Catholic manager. Why do we even have to know Le Guen's religion? I couldn't even tell you Strachan's religion and nobody really cares. Obviously there's support for the IRA amongst many fans but that's another story.

Anyway, I could give you so many reason why I hate Rangers and Hearts, I could never cheer them on in Europe. Hibs are Scotland's 4th team which is why I mentioned them. I'd be just as happy to cheer on Aberdeen and Kilmarnock in Europe.

The Rooster

In fairness eirebhoy, the Hearts supporters only booed because they were playing Celtic and knew it would annoy them. Hearts are not a sectarian club. The reaction by the club tells you that. I doubt very much there would have been boos had they been playing Aberdeen or Dundee etc. There has never been an issue with Hearts playing Catholic players, and plenty of players have played with both Celtic and Hearts.

If Celtic had been playing Rangers when there was a minutes silence for the Qmother, I guarantee there would have been boos throughout the Celtic support - again to annoy the Rangers fans rather than abuse the QM.

eirebhoy

Maybe so. I can't stand Hearts though.

Attractive Nun

I don't follow the EL, but I would still watch any televised European match if it was on, and support the Irish team. Maybe it's because I've no particular affinity for one team, but I reckon it's more to do with just liking the teams for various reasons. Although I support Man United, I don't dislike all other teams equally. I supported Liverpool in the Champions' League, and Arsenal up until they played Barca (they are my adopted European team). I supported Middlesborough in the UEFA Cup. I supported West Ham in the FA Cup, up until the middle of the final when I realised Liverpool really deserved it - then I switched.

I will always support United no matter what. But if they're not involved, then you're naturally going to favour one team or another. A lot of people would have supported Sunderland in matches last season because they had so many Irish players and were always underdogs. In the case of European matches, I generally find myself supporting English teams simply because I know, and admire, many of their players. For example, I wanted Fabregas, Touré, Senderos, Flamini, Gilberto and Henry to do well in the Champions' League because I respect them as players.

When EL teams play in Europe, most Irish people will naturally support them simply because they are all (or most of them) Irish players, the media will be supporting them and they may well know them (I know two Bohs players personally, for example). I understand and adhere to many of the rivalries in football. I'll care more about a Manchester Derby or a Liverpool match than most other matches, but I still regard the rivalry as friendly so I've no problem supporting those teams in other circumstances. It's natural.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

A Dub in Glasgo

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Scotland - Will (would!) gladly cheer Rangers because I don't like the political/religious stance taken by Celtic fans.

You cheer Rangers because you do not like the political/religious stance of some Celtic fans?

Does that mean you agree with the political/religious stance of some Rangers fans?

gimmick

Attractive Nun wrote:

When EL teams play in Europe, most Irish people will naturally support them

I wosh that were the case - I worked in a bar until very recently and was told by a few customers that they hoped City would be hammered by Appolon Limassol. Their reasoning for 'hating' Cork City and in turn the eL is because of the crap football played by 'all' of them. Funnily enough, the same príck is a Liverpool fan, but 'hated' when Gerrard played for England. On pointing out his stupidity, he shouted at me telling me I have no right to an opinion because what I watch isn't football.

Similarly, when City won the league, some of these fellas said they really hoped Derry would win it etc.

Pathetic, and so many are like this tosser.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You cheer Rangers because you do not like the political/religious stance of some Celtic fans?

Does that mean you agree with the political/religious stance of some Rangers fans?

I think he means that both sides have majorly bigoted followings (not all).

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You cheer Rangers because you do not like the political/religious stance of some Celtic fans?

Does that mean you agree with the political/religious stance of some Rangers fans?

Yeah, bad choice of words there, I should clarify.

One of my pet hates is anyone using football for political or religious expression. I've been to three Celtic matches, two of which were against English teams and all three were dominated by pro IRA slagging aimed at English fans. This level of ignorance has left a very bitter and angry taste in m mouth.

I accept your point, it probably goes on just as much on the Rangers side, but at least they tend to be Scottish people cheering on a Scottish team with a genuine intererst in Scottish football as oppoised to Irish people cheering on a British team (and yes, they are British) in order to show Anti-British sentiment and no more interest in Scottish football than they do in Ukrianian folk-dancing.

MrJoeSoap

I'll support any Irish club in Europe and have absolutely no problem with doing so. I've been to see almost all the eL sides in Europe over the past few years at this stage, and can't see any problem with it.

We aren't directly competing with each other so whats the problem? If Derry/Cork/Drogheda win it improves our co-efficient and furthers the leagues progress, how can that be a bad thing?

Derry had 3,000 fans at the game last night, maybe Einsturzende can give us a rough estimate as to how many were non-Derry fans from other eL teams? I would have gone over if I had the money, and I'll certainly get to the Drogs-Start game to shout for Drogs.

WhiteWashMan

eirebhoy wrote:

Maybe so. I can't stand Hearts though.

they only have one good man there.

the owner....

or at least when he sacks everyone else and then we really find out he did pick all the teams anyway

A Dub in Glasgo

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

One of my pet hates is anyone using football for political or religious expression

What is your view of Barcelona?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Nice city. Love the architechture.

You're gonna bring up ETA now, I preusme...? Again, what nationality os the team and what nationality are the supporters? And how knowledgeable are they wehn it comes to football?

eirebhoy

I can't believe I missed this:

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Scotland - Will (would!) gladly cheer Rangers because I don't like the political/religious stance taken by Celtic fans.

haha. That has to be one of the most hypocritical posts I've read in a long time.

There's so much wrong with your previous posts that I'm not going into it.

Bateman

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

You're gonna bring up ETA now, I preusme...? Again, what nationality os the team and what nationality are the supporters? And how knowledgeable are they wehn it comes to football?

Go out and play. The adults are talking. :rolleyes:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Did I not clarify that or something?

And didn't you yourself write this

"Celtic fans couldn't really care about religion"

(eh hello... O'Connell St riots with fans wearing Celtic shirts...?)

and

" I could never cheer them [Hearts] on in Europe. Hibs are Scotland's 4th team which is why I mentioned them. I'd be just as happy to cheer on Aberdeen and Kilmarnock in Europe."

(...because....?)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Bateman wrote:

Go out and play. The adults are talking. :rolleyes:

The "adults" appear to be loading guns instead of answering the questions asked.

Benedict XVI

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

I accept your point, it probably goes on just as much on the Rangers side, but at least they tend to be Scottish people cheering on a Scottish team with a genuine intererst in Scottish football as oppoised to Irish people cheering on a British team (and yes, they are British) in order to show Anti-British sentiment and no more interest in Scottish football than they do in Ukrianian folk-dancing.

I’m sure that world wide there are Rangers ‘fans’ because there is the perception that they represent a Loyalist, Protestant, anti-Irish ethos, without any interest in Scottish football
Just like there are Celtic ‘fans’ as you describe above.
The problem is the Republic seems to have a monopoly of the Celtic ‘fans’ and thus we never see the other side and as a result their existence is often forgotten by us.

Myself, I am equally ambivalent to both.

eirebhoy

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Did I not clarify that or something?

And didn't you yourself write this

"Celtic fans couldn't really care about religion"

(eh hello... O'Connell St riots with fans wearing Celtic shirts...?)

haha. This is exactly what I expected you to view as the Celtic fan. The lad that supports the IRA and doesn't know much about Scottish football - do you really consider these people Celtic fans just because they have the jersey?

"I accept your point, it probably goes on just as much on the Rangers side, but at least they tend to be Scottish people cheering on a Scottish team with a genuine intererst in Scottish football as oppoised to Irish people cheering on a British team (and yes, they are British) in order to show Anti-British sentiment and no more interest in Scottish football than they do in Ukrianian folk-dancing."

I'm actually pretty shocked as you seem to think Celtic fans only exist in Ireland. No offence but you haven't got the slightest clue about Celtic.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

eirebhoy wrote:

haha. This is exactly what I expected you to view as the Celtic fan. The lad that supports the IRA and doesn't know much about Scottish football - do you really consider these people Celtic fans just because they have the jersey?

"I accept your point, it probably goes on just as much on the Rangers side, but at least they tend to be Scottish people cheering on a Scottish team with a genuine intererst in Scottish football as oppoised to Irish people cheering on a British team (and yes, they are British) in order to show Anti-British sentiment and no more interest in Scottish football than they do in Ukrianian folk-dancing."

I'm actually pretty shocked as you seem to think Celtic fans only exist in Ireland. No offence but you haven't got the slightest clue about Celtic.

TBH, I couldn't care about Celtic fans. But my experiences with Celtic fans are pretty much all the same: it's a way of expressing republicianism andbeing anti-Brit.

eirebhoy

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

TBH, I couldn't care about Celtic fans. But my experiences with Celtic fans are pretty much all the same: it's a way of expressing republicianism andbeing anti-Brit.

I'll bring you to Celtic Park sometime and you'd realise how wrong you are.