is Individualist Consumerism a philosophy or lifestyle choice?

Sgt. Sensible

DadaKopf wrote:

Where are you living?

Berlin (Germany)

SkepticOne

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

Anyway, there are loads of examples of societies where consumerism and even the notion of private property is/was alien. The Americas for instance. What do you make of the Amish then?

Are you talking about native Americans of the past? Obviously they could not enjoy the consumerist lifestyle unlike, say, modern ones who run casinos and drive SUVs. The Amish are forbidden from being consumerist by their religion.

The example you need is a population of people with excess income and access to consumer goods but who don't bother with material good beyond what they need and don't have an overriding ideology or religion forbidding them from doing so.

Germany? May have a bohemian subculture and there is high unemployment in parts of the country, but I don't think what you say is true of the whole of the country. Again there can be variation due to a variety of reasons. Germany is in a different phase of the business cycle to Ireland, for example and has not experienced a sudden boom after economic hardship recently. They had their boom some time ago. Their economy is more mature.

RedPlanet

SkepticOne wrote:

The example you need is a population of people with excess income and access to consumer goods but who don't bother with material good beyond what they need and don't have an overriding ideology or religion forbidding them from doing so.

Why is it a precondition that they don't have an ideology forbidding them from doing so?
Why can't rejecting consumerism be part and parcel of one's ideology, even tho that ideology is based upon religion?
I also think your generalisation of indigenous Americans is wrong and a bit offensive.
I also don't understand why it's necessary to have a population w/ "excess income" and "access to consumer goods" when there are ample cases of populations of people that just do not aspire to those things in the first place.

DadaKopf

Presumably SkepticOne believes that 'west is best'? Because the kind of development - even the concept of 'development' - we are part of is the 'right one'? Or because we're made to believe that there is only one way to do things because economics 'prove' that there are universal laws to human life?

SkepticOne

RedPlanet wrote:

Why is it a precondition that they don't have an ideology forbidding them from doing so?
Why can't rejecting consumerism be part and parcel of one's ideology, even tho that ideology is based upon religion?

Because it is no good in countering the point I am raising.

I also think your generalisation of indigenous Americans is wrong and a bit offensive.
I also don't understand why it's necessary to have a population w/ "excess income" and "access to consumer goods" when there are ample cases of populations of people that just do not aspire to those things in the first place.

Because there's no point in citing, say, some nomadic tribe in the middle of nowhere. If there's no excess income and no consumer goods to buy then there can't be consumerism.

SkepticOne

DadaKopf wrote:

Presumably SkepticOne believes that 'west is best'? Because the kind of development - even the concept of 'development' - we are part of is the 'right one'? Or because we're made to believe that there is only one way to do things because economics 'prove' that there are universal laws to human life?

I think possibly you don't like the fact that I have a different view of human nature to you. I think perhaps that you believe that people engage in consumerist activities because they have bought into a specific ideology. It seems more likely that when given the opportunity people start consuming and it takes a specifically anti-consumerist ideology to stop them.

Again, this is not to say that consumerism is a good thing (which you seem to incorrectly be implying I'm saying).