What Irish political party would you like to see disappear and why?

Jackie laughlin

Are SF/IRA homophobic? Yes. Xenophobic? Decidedly. Are they mysogynistic and religious? Yes and YES! Do they believe in the corporatist state? Yes, that would suit them nicely.

More to the point. They have a private army/police force. They love parading around in uniforms and fantasising about having an officer class. They seek to rule. They attempt to organise services parallel to those of the legitimate state. They commemorate fascists. They try to instill fear in opponents. Policy is cynically adjusted to achieve power and collect money. They refuse to repudiate gangsters, murderers and gun runners.

I wasn't whinging about threats. I was merely stating that I had direct experience.

If you managed to infiltrate the police, you'd have nothing but praise for the police. Until then the PSNI and An Garda are rivals to your fascist fantasy army and police.

Hypocrcy is to be condemned. Fascism is to be taken rather more seriously.

FTA69

Are SF/IRA homophobic?

Eh no, we are one of the only parties in Ireland that supports gay marriage and their right to adopt children. We have an LGBT cumann, and the are in fact gay members of the IRA, one called McLaughlin who came out while in Long Kesh.

Yes. Xenophobic? Decidedly

Which is why we have people from 10 different nationalities, including English, blacks, Asians and whites in our party. Do you know what xenophobia means?

Are they mysogynistic and religious?

Misogynistic in the sense we are forever giving out about the lack of women in our party, and have women in many prominent positions. AS for religion, we have had more conflicts with the Church than any other party, and support the absolute seperation of church and state.

love parading around in uniforms and fantasising about having an officer class.

The IRA doesn't have an "officer class", it is largely an egalitarian structure based on equality. By the way the colour parties at our commemorations and rallies dress like that as a form of guard of honour for Republicans who have died, it isn't anything sinister.

They seek to rule.

As opposed to who? Fianna Fáil?

They attempt to organise services parallel to those of the legitimate state.

No we don't, we just participate in community actions which are taken with a view to self-empowerment, a residents association or CRJ project is not fascist, nor is it undermining the state.

They commemorate fascists.

We commemorate IRA Volunteers, most of whom were dedicated Socialists, but then again terminology like that is lost on you because you clearly don't know what they mean.

They refuse to repudiate gangsters, murderers and gun runners.

FG were commemorating Michael Collins, a man who organised robberies, killings and arms shipments. Perhaps you'll whinge at them next?

I wasn't whinging about threats. I was merely stating that I had direct experience.

So some nut rings you at night and suddenly you're on an IRA hitlist is it? :rolleyes:

Out of curiosity can you define fascism?

IrishAirCorps

Sinn Fein get rid of this Scum, no respect for anybody, Dont recognise the State or its Armed Forces be it Army,Air Corps,Navy,Gardai. Support Terrorism and also dont have any remorse not even for Gda Gerry McCabe.......Get rid of those Scumbags.

ScottishDanny

Whoa! The OP really opened a can of worms here!
Here's a few thoughts
Aren't most Irish political parties linked in some way with paramilitarism from their past? FF,FG,SF, Labour, Workers Party - even the PDs McDowell is the grandson of Eoin MacNeill (Wasn't he the head of a 'private army' called the Irish Volunteers?) Other than the Greens I can't think of a political group that doesn't have a connection currently or historically with terrorists/freedom fighters whatever you want to call them. Many Irish political leaders use it as a badge of honour (Fitzgerald/Haughey parentage, Lemass, Dev - even Bertie has talked of his house being raided by SB when he was a boy).
There seems to be a lot of SF bashing going on - you might not like them but they do get a lot of votes (how many is debateable as shown in the thread :rolleyes: ) but it seems fair to say 6 figs north and south? I'm guessing people are not intimidated into voting for them. One of the disadvantages of a democracy I suppose.

The idea wanting parties to 'disappear' sounds a little dare I say it 'fascist', I don't reckon any of the ones named and shamed in the thread are likely to disappear any time soon, do you?

IrishAirCorps

Id go Fine Gael they have a good stance of everything even a good Defence Policy. Sinn Fein should be outed as a group thats supports Terrorists and murderers and Outlawed like what kind of "Political Party" goes around with Stolen Gardai Uniforms in the back of vans......il tell ya who, Anti State Scum.

Diogenes

IrishAirCorps wrote:

Id go Fine Gael they have a good stance of everything even a good Defence Policy. Sinn Fein should be outed as a group thats supports Terrorists and murderers and Outlawed like what kind of "Political Party" goes around with Stolen Gardai Uniforms in the back of vans......il tell ya who, Anti State Scum.

I'll ask the retard'd question your opinion does not represent the irishaircorp despite your name?

Oh and whats FG's defence policy?

oscarBravo

Tone it down, IAC.

FTA69

Sinn Fein should be outed as a group thats supports Terrorists and murderers and Outlawed like what kind of "Political Party" goes around with Stolen Gardai Uniforms in the back of vans......il tell ya who, Anti State Scum.

Kick 'is ass Seabass!

Merciful hour, that's an authoritarian position that would make Franco proud, what with all the references to the military and being "loyal and vigilant".

Gas.

New_Departure06

Labour so as to deny FG a majority in the Dail. Among other reasons such as its backbenchers who are too liberal on immigration and too hostile to the private-sector e.g. privatisation, increased private-role in the health-service which is necessary to fix the trollies problem.

Diogenes

FTA69 wrote:

Kick 'is ass Seabass!

Merciful hour, that's an authoritarian position that would make Franco proud, what with all the references to the military and being "loyal and vigilant".

Gas.

Laugh all you want but when you're finished would you mind explaining what a bunch of IRA men were doing with a load of Garda uniforms, a tazer, some CS gas and a list of names, in a van owned/rented by a party worker of Caoimhín O Caoláin.

Would you care to explain that or would that be another "internal manner" that you "can't comment on"

You can claim SF are a left wing party but the PDs who are as right as you can get in mainstream Irish politics don't equip party workers with CS spray, yet.

Cronus333

ScottishDanny wrote:

Aren't most Irish political parties linked in some way with paramilitarism from their past? FF,FG,SF, Labour, Workers Party - even the PDs McDowell is the grandson of Eoin MacNeill (Wasn't he the head of a 'private army' called the Irish Volunteers?)

Since you don't choose your relatives I wouldn't entirely call that links. Also FF and FG's links are 80 years old and not really relevant anymore. The others on the other hand....

IrishAirCorps

FTA69 wrote:

Kick 'is ass Seabass!

Merciful hour, that's an authoritarian position that would make Franco proud, what with all the references to the military and being "loyal and vigilant".

Gas.

Thats my View. The "Irish Air Corps-Vigilant and loyal" Is the Motto of the Irish Air Corps, not my motto.

References to the Military are about the IRA Scum. Seriously why did those SF B**tards have Gardai Uniforms etc.......... wasnt for a Stag Party was it? Sinn Fein=Destroyed Ireland. People should be ashamed to support them, and the ****ing cheek of them to use the Tricolour as their Party Flag dont make me sick i wont tone down anything this is a FREE Country,Discussion Board and hell il be damned if im gonna lower my disgust at such a Political party who are nothing more than scum.

FTA69

References to the Military are about the IRA Scum

Eh? You realise you've used the word "scum" 5 times on this thread, perhaps you'd be better off expanding your clearly limited vocabulary and then maybe someone will take you seriously colonel.

Diogenes,

Laugh all you want

He is good for a giggle in fairness.

when you're finished would you mind explaining what a bunch of IRA men were doing with a load of Garda uniforms, a tazer, some CS gas and a list of names, in a van owned/rented by a party worker of Caoimhín O Caoláin.

Caoimhín Ó Caoláin is from Monaghan, you possibly might mean Aengus Ó Snódaigh. I haven't a clue what the men were doing, you might want to ask them. However if you examine their convictions you'll find they weren't exactly based on damning evidence, rather the word of a Garda superintendent, possesion of contraband and a list of names the judge said "could well be used for perfectly legal purposes". Now this mightn't mean anything to you, and you are going to believe what you are going to believe, all I am saying is that their convictiosn were as a result of a non-jury trial on flimsy evidence so I'm not going to launch into possible explanations.

You can claim SF are a left wing party but the PDs who are as right as you can get in mainstream Irish politics don't equip party workers with CS spray, yet.

That's really a bad attempt at humour rather an actual analysis of the left-right divide entails.

FTA69

the ****ing cheek of them to use the Tricolour as their Party Flag

And people say we're indoctrinated? Himself here is a prime example of the mentality they drill into people in the state forces, the Tricolour is not our party flag at all mate.

shoegirl

Ibid wrote:

And incidentally, what would be wrong with children of wealthy people supporting socialism? Would it be wrong for a working-class kid to support the PDs?

The problem with wealthy people supporting socialism is that for many students it is a temporary growing up phase which they grow out of. Also many people are suspicious of their empathy with the genuinely disadvantaged because these guys often have no experience of disadvantage themselves. Most of those who I knew as socialists in TCD in the early 90s are now working for corporations or organisations like ISME and IBEC who do a lot to ensure that a large proportion of the public stays poor. The contempt I feel for these people knows no depths.

On the other hand, most of the anarchists have stuck to their guns. I can admire that. A lot of them eschewed big money careers to eke out more humble existences as writers, journalists and the odd activist. Some of them really have made sacrifices to make the world a better place. While I don't agree with their beliefs, I have huge admiration for these people who still have the courage of their convictions.

For me I think FF (even those I despise SF's duplicity) because I think they have fed and developed the neo-nationalist rhetoric that SF is now reaping the rewards of. Because they are duplicitious as SF in their application of policy - playing to the gallery with feel-good giveaways whilst giving the real giveaways to the highest bidders. I grew up in Ray Burke's locality and particularly deplore the way in which democracy has been sold at a price and in which policies which seemingly benefit the poor in fact line the pockets of the already wealthy (the policies on property have to be some of the most notorious in the western world).

At least SF come from a heartland of genuine disadvantage and many of their people are at least people who've experienced harassment. It doesn't justify the violence of their buddies in the PIRA but it makes them slightly less contemptible than your fat-cat FF-luvvie property magnate in the FF tent at the Galway races.

Diogenes

FTA69 wrote:

Caoimhín Ó Caoláin is from Monaghan, you possibly might mean Aengus Ó Snódaigh.

Semantic quibbling

I haven't a clue what the men were doing, you might want to ask them. However if you examine their convictions you'll find they weren't exactly based on damning evidence, rather the word of a Garda superintendent, possesion of contraband and a list of names the judge said "could well be used for perfectly legal purposes".

So you admit four IRA men were found in a Van belonging to a party official with a list of extremely suspect material.

Now this mightn't mean anything to you, and you are going to believe what you are going to believe, all I am saying is that their convictiosn were as a result of a non-jury trial on flimsy evidence so I'm not going to launch into possible explanations.

Not going to or trying to avoid to? It's not flimsy evidence its circumstantial evidence, I imagine the charges would be far more serious if they'd reached their destination.

However it's worth noting that SF haven't bothered giving an explanation for all this.

That's really a bad attempt at humour rather an actual analysis of the left-right divide entails.

Yeah imagine the uproar if a bunch of thugs were found equiped with all this in a PD party work's van. With SF we just roll our eyes and shrug and think "business as usual"

Oh theres a whole post of mine up their that you've chosen to ignore.

FTA69

Semantic quibbling

I was simply being generous enough to clarify the mistake you made.

So you admit four IRA men were found in a Van belonging to a party official with a list of extremely suspect material.

I admit four men were convicted in a non-jury trial of IRA membership on the basis of flimsy evidence and a flawed conviction procss.

It's not flimsy evidence its circumstantial evidence

So being sentenced to 4 years on the basis of circumstantial evidence is fair in your eyes?

Oh theres a whole post of mine up their that you've chosen to ignore.

I didn't ignore anything, I posted a long reply to it the other day only to have it wiped and to lose it all, as you might know this is quite the pain in the ass, I'll reply to it in time.

Diogenes

FTA69 wrote:

I was simply being generous enough to clarify the mistake you made.

Riiiiighhhhtttt

I admit four men were convicted in a non-jury trial of IRA membership on the basis of flimsy evidence and a flawed conviction procss.

Again care to offer an explanation of what they were doing in the van with all those weapons?

So being sentenced to 4 years on the basis of circumstantial evidence is fair in your eyes?

In ordinary circumstances no it's not fair. But let us not forget the special criminal court was set up because the IRA intimitation of jurors, so IRA apologists complaining about the special criminal court, is a bit like pissing in your own cornflakes, and then complaining about the taste.

I didn't ignore anything, I posted a long reply to it the other day only to have it wiped and to lose it all, as you might know this is quite the pain in the ass, I'll reply to it in time.

Uh huh I await with baited breath.

IrishAirCorps

Diogenes we both know any "sane" minded person wont vote for these people who Train terrorists such as Farc, i have huge respect for the old IRA who founded the REAL Oglaigh Na hEireann not you pack of cnuts.

Cronus333

IrishAirCorps wrote:

Thats my View. The "Irish Air Corps-Vigilant and loyal" Is the Motto of the Irish Air Corps, not my motto.

References to the Military are about the IRA Scum. Seriously why did those SF B**tards have Gardai Uniforms etc.......... wasnt for a Stag Party was it? Sinn Fein=Destroyed Ireland. People should be ashamed to support them, and the ****ing cheek of them to use the Tricolour as their Party Flag dont make me sick i wont tone down anything this is a FREE Country,Discussion Board and hell il be damned if im gonna lower my disgust at such a Political party who are nothing more than scum.

That reminds me, weren't you the guy that ransacked LGBT forum for a while?

By the way thats a lot of anger. Calm. Peace. You are Happy. You are Content. Better?
As much as I dislike Sinn Fein(and thats a lot) they are perfectly entitled to use the flag. Just don't vote for them.

IrishAirCorps

**** em.

darkman2

IrishAirCorps wrote:

**** em.

I agree **** Sinn Fein scumbags. Thats all they are.

philologos

I would like Sinn Féin to dissapear, they have done more harm than good over the years in my opinion. SDLP are more likely to provide a solution in Northern Ireland than Sinn Féín are.

oscarBravo

IrishAirCorps wrote:

...i wont tone down anything this is a FREE Country,Discussion Board and hell il be damned if im gonna lower my disgust at such a Political party who are nothing more than scum.

You can be as disgusted as you want, but do it outside this board. For two weeks.

oscarBravo

darkman2 wrote:

I agree **** Sinn Fein scumbags. Thats all they are.

Banned for a week. It should have been perfectly clear that if I wasn't going to tolerate this from IAC, I wasn't going to tolerate it from anyone else.

FTA69

Diogenes we both know any "sane" minded person wont vote for these people who Train terrorists such as Farc, i have huge respect for the old IRA who founded the REAL Oglaigh Na hEireann not you pack of cnuts.

The "real" Óglaigh na hÉireann? Óglaigh na hÉireann actually voted overwhelmingly to reject the Treaty that spawned the Free State Army, the forerunner of the crowd you belong to, but I suppose history doesn't feature on the indoctrination course you obviously went through. As for calling me Cnut, wasn't he a Viking ruler from Denmark?

oscarBravo

You won't be getting a reply, FTA69 - IrishAirCorps is now permanently banned from Politics after a "frank and open exchange of views" by PM.

DublinWriter

oscarBravo wrote:

You can be as disgusted as you want, but do it outside this board. For two weeks.

I fail to see how IAC's calling of Sinn Fein 'a bunch of scumbags' merits a ban.

Other political parties, and especially named individuals within other political parties have been accused of much worse on here.

Again we see another vibrant thread on boards.ie reduced to silence due to the displeasure of a mod being incurred.

Sgt. Sensible

The thread is just an open invitation to slag off the various parties. I think it should have been locked instead of banning people who were just repeating the same sentiments of other posters (including a mod) earlier on.

oscarBravo

DublinWriter wrote:

I fail to see how IAC's calling of Sinn Fein 'a bunch of scumbags' merits a ban.

Other political parties, and especially named individuals within other political parties have been accused of much worse on here.

IAC went off on a rant. He was warned, acknowledged and refused to accept the warning, and went further off on a rant. That's why he was banned - for a week. The ban was extended to a permanent one for personal abuse via PM.

DublinWriter wrote:

Again we see another vibrant thread on boards.ie reduced to silence due to the displeasure of a mod being incurred.

Here's your one and only warning on the subject: don't discuss moderation of this forum on this forum, with limited and sole exception being made in the sticky thread "A discussion on the rules". If you have an issue with my moderation, send me a PM or take it up with the admins.

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

The thread is just an open invitation to slag off the various parties. I think it should have been locked instead of banning people who were just repeating the same sentiments of other posters (including a mod) earlier on.

The same admonition applies.