Villa Signings and General Rumours Thread

Neil3030

So Spurs have a Uefa spot for the Carling Cup? What would happen if they go on and win the Uefa Cup? Would their Carling Cup Uefa spot be given to Chelsea as losing finalists? But if Chelsea finish in the top 4/win the league/win the Champions League, they will receive a spot in the CL for next year and not need it. What would happen to Spurs' extra Uefa spot in that case? Would they technically take their Carling spot, giving the losing Uefa finalists the place for next year to avoid confusion?

Savman

Beaten Carling Cup finalists defo don't get a place in any eventuality IIRC, but trying to figure the whole thing out is a total mind melt. But if anyone wants to try, knock yerself out

invincibleirish

Its all to play for,its a three way tie between Liverpool, Everton & Villa for the 4th CL spot/5th UEFA spot/Intertoto, at the moment Villa are the underdogs, were 5pts behind the Merseysiders.

But Villa have done the hard part, weve went to Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs & Liverpool and come away with something, our run compromises teams in the lower reaches barring Everton & United (both away), we can beat most of the teams left to play, the formbook says we can, this a time to judge how great MON is.

It will be a success if Villa take the CL spot although i think the consensus is we wont, but we'll surely get some form of European football barring a complete collapse in form, thats been a successful season, we can moan missed oppurtunities but at the start of the season im certain we all would have been happy with a top 10 finish, Villa have done better then i thought they would, so next season we can consider Villa contenders for 4th spot starting the season if MON & Randy have a decent summer transfer window.

One Cold Hand

invincibleirish wrote: »

if MON & Randy have a decent summer transfer window.

Ha! You're funny!

Seroiusly tho, I think if we finish 6th it'll be a very good season, better than I expected. I don't think we can catch Everton or Liverpool, too much of gap and they're playing too well. Will be pleasantly surprised if we do of course.

Hopefully the lads can just forget about all the european possibilities and concentrate on winning each game.

Savman

One Cold Hand wrote: »

Hopefully the lads can just forget about all the european possibilities and concentrate on winning each game.

Agreed, aim for 5th if Everton lose form or slip up badly but right now the odds are stacked firmly against us. That shouldn't take anything away from MON & the team's achievements this season.

Magic Pips

Am i right in saying that even if an English team wins the champions league, the extra place doesnt go the the league? i fear i may well be talkin poop

Tomthepost

I might be wrong but as far as I know lads if an English team win either UEFA or the Champions League 6th will get us Europe.
If an English team win both 7th will do.

Raekwon

Savman wrote: »

but trying to figure the whole thing out is a total mind melt

+1. It really is mind boggling I blame Chelsea

I'm actually really glad that MON had the hindsight to enter us into the Intertoto Cup now because it looks like anything outside of a top 5 finish will be useless for European qualification.

Neil3030

Let's get to the bottom of this so. UEFA's current rule is that if the CL winners fail to finish in one of its national league's qualifying positions, it will take the place of the lowest placed team in its league. So 5th place doesn't appear to be a route to the CL for Villa, regardless of who wins it, so we can forget about that.

As for the Uefa cup, am I right in saying England get 3 spots, one for 5th place in the league and one for each of the FA and Carling Cup?

This means the 5th place team, Spurs and either Pompey/Championship team will take the other.

Now it gets confusing.

We have Everton, Spurs and Bolton left in the Uefa Cup. According to the Wiki on the Uefa Cup, if a team qualifies for the UEFA Cup through both winning a cup and league placing, the "spare" UEFA Cup place will go to either the cup runners-up or the highest placed league team which has not already qualified for European competition, depending on the rules of the national association.

But this doesn't clear up what happens to a club who wins the UEFA Cup, if they've already qualified through a domestic league or cup competition. Is this "spare" place passed on, or just forfeited like in the Champion's League?

The way I see it Villa only have two scenarios that might give us a place in UEFA outside of finishing 5th.

• Everton win the Uefa Cup
• Spurs win the Uefa Cup

But this would depend on UEFA automatically granting the UEFA cup winners re-entry to the tournament, and then the FA granting the "spare" place (if there is one) in accordance with league position.

So..... Intertoto looks our best shout at the moment....

Magic Pips

But what happens if Utd/Arsenal win the CL... they qualify through being winners, do the top 4 (excluding winners, ie 5th place) then get CL football???

JPA

We cannot get UEFA cup qualification by finishing 6th.
No matter who wins what cup.
I am 90% sure of this.
6th is Intertoto, 5th is UEFA, 4th is Champions League.

Helix

Magic Pips wrote: »

But what happens if Utd/Arsenal win the CL... they qualify through being winners, do the top 4 (excluding winners, ie 5th place) then get CL football???

no

4 teams max in the cl based on top 4 in the league, or if a club wins it and finishes outside the top 4, then top 3 plus the holders

for the uefa cup holders DONT qualify the next season, unless they qualify via their FAs guidelines

as for the wiki page that lists how clubs qualify for different competitions, theyre just guidelines, its up to each countrys FA to nominate their representatives at the end of the season, so theoretically the english fa could turn around and say "right, no we're gonna put villa in instead of everton because we feel like it", and theyd be well within their rights to do so

obviously thered be uproar tho, so the rules are set out at the beginning of each season in the interest of fairness

remember a while back ajax didnt finish in the cl qualification spots in holland, so the dutch fa changed their qualification rules to put ajax in a playoff for the spot with the team who DID finish there? well thats an example of what can be done

Helix

Magic Pips wrote: »

Am i right in saying that even if an English team wins the champions league, the extra place doesnt go the the league?

there is no extra place if an english team wins it. england gets 4 qualifiers, full stop, regardless of whether of them is the cl holder or not. no more, this was all covered after the fiasco in 05

Helix

if, and its a big if btw, IF carfiff win the fa cup, the fa wont put them forward to the uefa cup as english representatives coz theyre under the welsh fas jurisdiction

JPA

Helix wrote: »

if, and its a big if btw, IF carfiff win the fa cup, the fa wont put them forward to the uefa cup as english representatives coz theyre under the welsh fas jurisdiction

And even then the runner up would get the place.

Neil3030

Maybe MON wangled Celtic's CL spot as part of the £7m deal for Petrov....

Helix

JPA wrote: »

And even then the runner up would get the place.

no, they changed that a few years back

if the fa cup winner is already in europe (or in this case ineligible), the place goes to the league

invincibleirish

Predictions for Boro or are they a few pages back? although this has banana skin written all over it, Boro have had some good results recently, i still see Villa to win comfortably, 3-1 win to Villa?why not, Marlon & Gabby to get goals.

Helix

ill go with a handy 4-0 for us

laursen, carew 2, harewood

Neil3030

No sign of the match being televised anywhere. Are there any sites you can get it on?

Raekwon

3 - 0 to Villa.

Carew, Young & Barry (peno) to score.

invincibleirish

Neil3030 wrote: »

No sign of the match being televised anywhere. Are there any sites you can get it on?

Sopcast is your friend

JPA

Helix wrote: »

no, they changed that a few years back

if the fa cup winner is already in europe (or in this case ineligible), the place goes to the league

Do you have a link or source for this?

DSB

I can barely watch Villa with this ridiculously **** excuse for a player Zat Knight in the team. If he plays for the rest of the season we can pretty much say goodbye to even getting the Intertoto spot.

chilli_pepper

their passing is very poor tonight...

DSB

Gutless first half performance. No1 out there even looked like they wanted to be there. Hopefully O'Neill lets loose at halftime and they come out hungry for it, and minus Zat Knight. It'd be wrong to single him out solely for this performance though. They've all been ****. Only difference with him is hes always been ****. But I've faith we can get back in this and win it.

chilli_pepper

yes thats the spirit - A good b0llicking in the dressing room to get them into the right frame of mind...we'll see what happens...and yes Zat is a pile of poo

Villain

Maloney and Gardener off Harewood and Mellberg on, if we can't beat Boro at home I don't need to worry whether 6th will get Europe or not. Joke

Villain

Only one team in this and its not Villa, Boro should defo be 2 nil up if not 3. Awful awful performance

chilli_pepper

yeah its hard to watch but chin up mate something is going to happen down the Holt end

Raekwon

1 - 1! Barry (peno)

DSB

Ah lovely. Really gotten out of jail here.

Villain

Yep good call by ref defo handball now come on!

Helix

JPA wrote: »

Do you have a link or source for this?

nope, but iirc they changed it after millwall qualified for europe that time

im 99% sure that it was reported widely

chilli_pepper

DSB wrote: »

Ah lovely. Really gotten out of jail here.

Yes we did - very lucky to get that

Helix

Villain wrote: »

Yep good call by ref defo handball now come on!

ahah youre the only person ive seen say it was a pen, everyone else on any villa site im using says it was never

Villain

at first angle no but his arm was behind him it defo hit his elbow

chilli_pepper

it was never deliberate

Villain

Doesn't have to be

Villain

I think our sub bench shows our problem, no attacking option other than harewood

DSB

We definitely haven't deserved a win here anyway.

chilli_pepper

Villain wrote: »

Doesn't have to be

its a shady area in fairness :

"In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".":rolleyes:

Villain

Well we didn't even deserve a point. Martin O'Neills lack of signings are showing. Watching Everton in the Uefa cup and in fairness they are a far far better team than us.

DSB

Yup. I just hope we don't lose determination and drop down a good few places in the table now.

Raekwon

Apparently Luke Young got a second yellow card after the full time whistle for complaining to referee Steve Bennett about the peno that he conceded.

Villa very lucky tonight even though we should have stuffed a team like Boro.

Neil3030

Dear oh dear that was pitiful. How we even got a point is unbelievable. The last 15 mins of the game just kept pinging the ball up for Huth and Wheater to clear. No creativity whatsoever.

Villain

Apart from the Arsenal game I haven't seen Villa play well since we beat Reading 3-1 at home

Esse85

Pompey at the weekend will be tough.

Nobody should be surprised, we all said with a few injury's and suspensions, that we'd struggle.
Once Laursen's purple patch dried up, we've nobody to score, Gabby needs a rest, he's jaded.
Maloney cant do it in the PL.

Where was Routledge, i taught someone said he's in the squad. The sooner this season ends the better.

chilli_pepper

we got a point....thank fcuk.....lets move on Portsmouth on Sat - hopefully we will play alot better

Raekwon

Villain wrote: »

Watching Everton in the Uefa cup and in fairness they are a far far better team than us.

Agreed. IMO we have very similar *defensive and attack players as Everton but our midfield is weak compared to theirs.

Everton Midfield:

Thomas Gravesen
Anderson De Silva
Tim Cahill
Phil Neville
Steven Pienaar
Leon Osman
Lee Carsley
Manuel Fernandes
Dan Gosling
Bjarni Vidarsson
Mikel Arteta
Andy van der Meyde

Villa Midfield:

Moustapha Salifou
Stiliyan Petrov
Nigel Reo-Coker
Wayne Routledge
Patrik Berger
Zoltan Stieber
Craig Gardner
Isaiah Osbourne
Shaun Maloney
Gareth Barry

*Before Curtis Davis got injured.