Villa Signings and General Rumours Thread

DSB

O'Neill previously had our league position as the positive to the negative of his terrible performance in the transfer market. If we lose our top 7 position what does he have to defend himself on? We had an excellent season up to February, but if we throw it all away now that counts for nothing as far as I'm concerned. The league is judged over 38 games not 25. Now I'm NOT advocating sacking O'Neill as thats a really rash measure, but I still have to question whether he is actually the right person for the job.

11th place finish last season was below par, 8th or under this season wouldn't really be enough considering the chance we had to actually achieve something. With really strong players in the first 11 with 1 or 2 weak areas, (I don't think fans of any club would dispute this) its really Martin O'Neill's job to ensure we can push on from this by bringing in players to offer us more. This season can be written off as a process of building (even though I think thats rubbish considering how much more we could have achieved, given a proper January's spending), but if we haven't pushed on, bought 6/7 good players. and gotten top 5/6 next season we need someone who has the ability to do so. Next season is really make or break. And its upsetting to be almost writing this season off already.

But in my opinion, this season is a write off. When we have to play Zat Knight in defence, and play the same 11 players every week without rest, I can't be inspired with confidence that we'll win any games.

invincibleirish

Helix wrote: »

i dunno if you can really blame the players THAT much

its more that theres nobody to step in and give players rests/change our gameplan during games

i disagree about the players needing rest, they had a 10 day break, some chill time in Marbella. now at home against Boro & away against Pompey they pick up 1pt and play poorly, seems to me some of the Villa players are believing their own(and us the dreaming fans) hype. when was last time Gabby played a blinder? he has had about 30 odd games in 7 months to play, how many has C. Ronaldo played in the same period? IMO his lack of fitness is really cover for just out of form, he is young remember.

invincibleirish

DSB wrote: »

But in my opinion, this season is a write off..

QFT

Helix

invincibleirish wrote: »

i disagree about the players needing rest, they had a 10 day break, some chill time in Marbella. now at home against Boro & away against Pompey they pick up 1pt and play poorly, seems to me some of the Villa players are believing their own(and us the dreaming fans) hype. when was last time Gabby played a blinder? he has had about 30 odd games in 7 months to play, how many has C. Ronaldo played in the same period? IMO his lack of fitness is really cover for just out of form, he is young remember.

rest isnt to do with fitness tho, players need resting when theyre out of form or their confidence just keeps getting knocked

we dont have the ability to take any of our first 11 out of the starting lineup for the best part, and thats all down to the manager

ive been absolutely crucified on here for saying it time and time and time again since mon took over. blind faith in the bloke because "hes martin o'neill" is just accepting that we've pretty much thrown the best chance we've had in a long while of doing something away because of his shortcomings

he does the business for us on the pitch with a full, mentally fresh, and fit starting xi, but thats really about it. im not saying sack him, im saying he simply has to perform in the transfer market next season or lerner really needs to look at alternatives. with mons transfer policy, the fact is that if he decides to walk and take a bigger job, the new manager coming in has an obscenely small squad to work with, at least if we give mon til the end of next year and see what happens, we can let him go on our terms and not be left in the lurch

that said, im not expecting him to prick round in the transfer market this year, randy seems to have gotten as pissed off as the fans with his "value for money" stance that wouldve worked when he was at leicester in the 90s. i just get the feeling randy has told him to bloody well buy a player if he needs him, and not be cribbing because he costs £1m more than his valuation

Helix

DSB wrote: »

This season can be written off as a process of building

see, the unfortunate thing with that is that this summer we need a massive influx of players, whichll mean writing off next season as a process of building too, whereas mon shouldve brought in a couple more players this term even if it cost him a few extra million, coz it means they couldve bedded down before the other new guys come in

i cant see us doing better than 8th or 9th next season regardless of what we manage this time round purely because we need so many new faces

DSB

Helix wrote: »

see, the unfortunate thing with that is that this summer we need a massive influx of players, whichll mean writing off next season as a process of building too, whereas mon shouldve brought in a couple more players this term even if it cost him a few extra million, coz it means they couldve bedded down before the other new guys come in

i cant see us doing better than 8th or 9th next season regardless of what we manage this time round purely because we need so many new faces

If that ends up being the case, he should be shipped out and someone brought in with a full idea of what he wants, and the conviction to follow that through. Either way whoever manages the squad has a very talented bunch to work with as a foundation.

One Cold Hand

I'm away globetrotting at the minute, so haven't seen too many matches recently, so comments are based on reports, posts etc...

Seems the team are very stale at the minute, and a few of the players could do with a rest. Invincableirish, this is a mental thing more than a physical thing. Gabby seems desperately short on confidence. Seems like Barry and NRC have been completely missing for the last few games. They're probably too comfortable knowing there's no one to take their place or give them a rest for a game or two. Petrov is obviously under performing, as is Knight. Sounds like even Laursen is off the boil a bit. The size of the squad is obviously to blame for this and MON has failed desperately in this regard. I think this summer will be his last chance in many peoples opinions.

As a side issue, did Carson have a howler against Pompey? That would be another one to add to the list...

DSB

One Cold Hand wrote: »

I'm away globetrotting at the minute, so haven't seen too many matches recently, so comments are based on reports, posts etc...

Seems the team are very stale at the minute, and a few of the players could do with a rest. Invincableirish, this is a mental thing more than a physical thing. Gabby seems desperately short on confidence. Seems like Barry and NRC have been completely missing for the last few games. They're probably too comfortable knowing there's no one to take their place or give them a rest for a game or two. Petrov is obviously under performing, as is Knight. Sounds like even Laursen is off the boil a bit. The size of the squad is obviously to blame for this and MON has failed desperately in this regard. I think this summer will be his last chance in many peoples opinions.

As a side issue, did Carson have a howler against Pompey? That would be another one to add to the list...

Knight isnt simply underperforming, hes just crap. Petrov has also never really set a performance standard with us from which someone could say he has slipped. The bulk of your point is correct though I reckon.

Helix

One Cold Hand wrote: »

As a side issue, did Carson have a howler against Pompey? That would be another one to add to the list...

both goals were his fault by all reports

cant see us keeping him now

itll most likely be guzan after a work permit appeal (that is if mon doesnt leave it til ****ing transfer deadline day again to apply for it)

Helix

harewood simply must start instad of gabby against sunderland imo

never thought id say that

Bounty Hunter

Just wondering how did you guys think Villa would do before the season started?

iirc most people thought we would have a top half finish but probably not qualify for europe and nobody even considerd Villa making top4. Personally i predicted seventh (convenienth eh) but atm I still think Villla will make Europe although it will be via the intertoto.

PHB

Both goals were Carsons fault. Was a harsh result on Villa.

Helix

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Just wondering how did you guys think Villa would do before the season started?

iirc most people thought we would have a top half finish but probably not qualify for europe and nobody even considerd Villa making top4. Personally i predicted seventh (convenienth eh) but atm I still think Villla will make Europe although it will be via the intertoto.

7-9th place for me

One Cold Hand

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Just wondering how did you guys think Villa would do before the season started?

iirc most people thought we would have a top half finish but probably not qualify for europe and nobody even considerd Villa making top4. Personally i predicted seventh (convenienth eh) but atm I still think Villla will make Europe although it will be via the intertoto.

Think I said 7th or 8th being realistic, 5th optimistic.

I agree that Gabby needs a rest, and I think Sunderland would be the perfect team to do it against. Let Marlon start, throw his weight around for 65/70 minutes then throw Gabby in as an impact sub.

Helix

id consider not having gabby at all

jc and marlon martin to start with fonzy on the bench, no better team for him to make his debut against

Bounty Hunter

7th-9th and 7/8th realistically eh this show to me that Villa are progressing like we would have thought or even slightly better than expected despite our signings not being what we would have expected prior to the season (which im sure you all factored into your predictions).

I would agree that prehaps Gabby could do with a spell (1game most likely) on the sidelines. Not due to tiredness but prehaps to instill more huner as he is dropable especially if super-sub Marlon is on form. Harewood too needs to know his super-sub exploits will not go unrewarded and if such a swap is made it should be his positive performances getting the spot that should be highlighted not a Gabby losing his place.

I missed all but a minute of highlghts of yesterdays match so can anyone say how Salifou did ? as i noticed he finally made an appearance

Helix

didnt hear, he only got 20 mins anyway

a whopping 35 mins in total this season lol

id like to see him given a start v sunderland as well tbh, just to see how he manages coz hes been doing well for the reserves

Neil3030

We were seriously let off the hook with that Fulham Everton result. And with City 1-0 down at half-time, this weekend is looking like finishing with some moderate consolation for Villa fans.

invincibleirish

I would have been happy with a top 10 finish at start of the season.

Maybe it is time questions are asked about MON, i am one of the people who have a lot of faith in the man, in fairness his work at Celtic,Leicester City & Wycombe was great but the common theme with those 3 clubs was working against adversity, at those 3 clubs really what he had to do was:

1) Finish above/beat Rangers
2)keep Leicester in the PL
3) keep Wycombe in the Football League & get them promoted

All of which he did successfully, but the job at Villa is different, he is essentially rebuilding a team whilst Lerner rebuilds the club. we keep hearing about a 5 year plan so ultimately we will have to judge on that.

Last season all MON had to was keep us away from the relegation zone, he did. this season we got off to a flyer, but remember 98/99? Villa led the league until Xmas, but even after spending millions on Dion Dublin, Villa still limped home behind West Ham out of the European places.

Next year is year 3 of the 5 year plan. next season, MON & the players should be talking about doing well from the start of the season, Maybe in the summer time millions will be spent, no one knows but MON, But this season looks like petering out into nothing bar the Intertoto, we've had a taste of the big time and we like it!.

We must remember we are talking about trying to break the top 4, Spurs are trying, Everton are trying, Portsmouth are trying, so are West Ham, i wouldnt swap MON (yet) or Randy Lerner with any of their managers or owners, keep the faith!.

Neil3030

What say ye men on the subject of relegation poachings - what players Villa could purchase from relegated clubs.

Assuming Tottenham and up are safe I'd welcome as either squad or first team bolsterings:

Wigan - Kirkland, Melchiot.
Middlesbrough - Scwarzer, Young, Downing, Wheater
Reading - Doyle
Newcastle - Given, Duff, Milner, Martins, Viduka, N'Zogbia
Sunderland - Jones, Gordon
Birmingham - Forssell, McFadden
Bolton - Nolan, Jääskeläinen
Fulham - Keller, McBride
Derby - Barnes

Snapping up Given if Toon go down should be top priority. After that Young and Downing from Middlesbrough, Jääskeläinen from Bolton, Barnes from Derby or McFadden from Birmingham would be my top picks.

Helix

i dunno about given to be honest, we need a long term solution between the sticks not a keeper whos arguably had his best days already and is turning into a crock

id take bullard from fulham, milner and martins from newcastle and nolan from bolton if we could get him

~Rebel~

I think N'Zogbia would suit Villa actually, him left with Young switched to right. Pretty much anyone's right back's wouldn't go amiss either!

Neil3030

As long as he can get over his recent injury concerns, Given will remain one of the top 5 keepers in the Premiership for at least another 2-3 years. That'd do me.

---

Given

---

---

L Young--Davies--Laursen--Bouma

---

A Young---Reo C--Barry--N'Zogbia

---

---

Agbonlahor----Martins

---

Fancy some of that so I would...

Helix

youngs better on the left, so we should be looking for a right winger instead of upsetting what we already have

Neil3030

Ah yeah well there are obviously better options out there for the right wing, but out of the relegation contenders I reckon taking N'Zogbia to play on the left and switching Young over is the best option.

Esse85

Id rather we concentrated on trying to sign players who arent fighting relegation. O'leary brought in McCann and Sorenson when Sunderland were relegated, Phillips came in from Southampton, these hardly set the world alight.

I dont think any Birmingham City player would be welcome at VP.

Some poor players there from that list, Kirkland is too injury prone, Melchiot apart from being ex Birmingham is not the type of player we should be after.

Schwartzer is getting on, MON didnt fancy Young when he was available this summer.

Doyle this season has been poor, is he being found out in the PL?

Given, Duff, Martins, Viduka. First 2 are injury prone, next 2 have poor attitude, im surprised you havent mentioned Owen in here!

Keller, McBride. Seriously like are you joking?

Savman

Esse85 wrote: »

Doyle this season has been poor, is he being found out in the PL?

In a very poor Reading side. I went to the Villa V Reading game at VP, and Doyle really looked impressive, great workrate, superb off the ball movement and a very decent touch on him too. I knew that day that he would flourish in a good team, which Reading are not.

Helix

doyle would most likely cost a good deal less than he wouldve 12 months ago, so i dont see why we shouldnt test the water with a low bid, see what happens

wouldnt pay a cent more than £5.5m for him tho, and thatd be VERY grudgingly

One Cold Hand

Pretty please, with a cherry on top, don't start talking about transfers in March! It's far too early...

Neil3030

Esse85 wrote: »

Id rather we concentrated on trying to sign players who arent fighting relegation. O'leary brought in McCann and Sorenson when Sunderland were relegated, Phillips came in from Southampton, these hardly set the world alight.

I dont think any Birmingham City player would be welcome at VP.

Some poor players there from that list, Kirkland is too injury prone, Melchiot apart from being ex Birmingham is not the type of player we should be after.

Schwartzer is getting on, MON didnt fancy Young when he was available this summer.

Doyle this season has been poor, is he being found out in the PL?

Given, Duff, Martins, Viduka. First 2 are injury prone, next 2 have poor attitude, im surprised you havent mentioned Owen in here!

Keller, McBride. Seriously like are you joking?

As I already said, I'd welcome each of the above players as either squad or first team bolsterings, your meandering definition of poor player notwithstanding.

Esse85

The majority of players you mentioned are not much better than the one's we've got already.
There's no point in bringing in average players just to increase the quantity of players.
I feel that's why MON didnt bring in anyone apart from Routledge during the January window, HE obviously felt that if certain quality players were not available then why bother bringing in lesser players.

If you "welcome each of the above players" you mentioned then your not a very ambitious supporter, if these players were all so good then their respective teams wouldnt be all fighting relegation.

I know its a team game but what has Forssell, Viduka, Doyle, McBride and Martins done this season, how many goals have they scored?? Have their goals kept their teams away from the relegation zone, clearly not.

If MON really wanted Young and Gordon then im sure they would of joined us instead of joining Boro and Sunderland.

Melchiot and McFadden, again i stress my point, Melchiot especially would have no business coming to VP, he's age-ing and lacks the quality we need, McFadden can score a few wonder goals but we can do better.

You suggest snapping up Given and Jääskeläinen, neither of these are gonna be happy on the bench.

P.S why would you move Ashley Young over to the right when he's been playing consistently well there all season, so well in fact that he made his England debut there and has been tauted as being a future starter in LM for years to come.

Neil3030

Come on, get real mate. Do you only consider lusting after such fantastical signings as Torres or Ronaldo as a characteristic of an “ambitious supporter”? Villa, like it or not, will definitely be having a look at the few decent players from the relegated teams come the Summer window. Were you peeved when we signed Ashley Young from relegation-doomed Watford?

It’s a case of acquiring components that will strengthen the Villa team, not dismissing players because their current teams are muck. Anyone out of L Young, Downing, Doyle, Given, Duff, Milner, Martins, N'Zogbia, Jones, Forssell, McFadden, Nolan or Jääskeläinen would walk into the current first-team at VP, fitness pending. Barnes, probably would in time, and the rest of the players I mentioned would make decent subs, granted, if they were happy in that role.

Savman

One Cold Hand wrote: »

Pretty please, with a cherry on top, don't start talking about transfers in March! It's far too early...

FWIW I'm with you on this, enough is enough.

Neil3030

Early bird catches the worm

PHB

The type of players MON needs to get in are young English players with potential and something to prove. Ashley Young, Reo-Coker etc.
The ones who to an extent see this as a stepping stone to the top 4 if possible.

Then he needs to get in the foreign unknown imports, which is much more difficult. Players like Petrov, Berbatov

He's never gona get the Ronaldos or Torres, but he might get a Torres if he got them very young, like 18.

Esse85

Great Post PHB, i fully agree with you.

Raekwon

Neil3030 wrote: »

Wigan - Kirkland, Melchiot.
Middlesbrough - Scwarzer, Young, Downing, Wheater
Reading - Doyle
Newcastle - Given, Duff, Milner, Martins, Viduka, N'Zogbia
Sunderland - Jones, Gordon
Birmingham - Forssell, McFadden
Bolton - Nolan, Jääskeläinen
Fulham - Keller, McBride
Derby - Barnes

I would only take Doyle, Milner, Barnes & Downing from that list. Also what's the story with all the veteran goalkeepers in your list (Keller 38, Jääskeläinen 32, Given 31)? We have 3 decent goal keepers on our books and were strongly linked with US International keeper Brad Guzman so that position shouldn't really be a priority.

Anyway, I agree with the others, its way to early to be talking about transfers. But if MON doesn’t get a few decent players in to cover nearly every position during the summer, then the sh*t is going to hit the fan. I’m sure he knows what he's doing and it won’t get to that stage (well I hope so anyway).

Helix

Raekwon wrote: »

We have 3 decent goal keepers on our books and were strongly linked with US International keeper Brad Guzman so that position shouldn't really be a priority.

well considering that on july 1st we'll only have 1, it kinda is

Raekwon

Helix wrote: »

well considering that on july 1st we'll only have 1, it kinda is

I think getting a new goalkeeper will be the least of our worries during the summer. Sorensen will definatley leave but I think Carson really wants to stay at Villa Park rather then go back to Anfield and play second fiddle to Pepe Reina, although Liverpool would need to be realistic about his fee if that was to happen. That leaves Taylor, who is a decent keeper and I can't really see him leaving unless he is pushed plus rumour has it that Villa are giving Rotherham's highly rated 17 year old keeper Mark Oxley a trial. No real panic there tbh.

One Cold Hand

Neil3030 wrote: »

Early bird catches the worm

Yes, but in this case your so early mate that there's no worms around - we can't actually buy a player til the summer.

Anyway, the only players I'd consider are Milner (for his proven quality) and Barnes (for his potential).

invincibleirish

Neil3030 wrote: »

What say ye men on the subject of relegation poachings - what players Villa could purchase from relegated clubs.

Assuming Tottenham and up are safe I'd welcome as either squad or first team bolsterings:

Wigan - Kirkland, Melchiot.
Middlesbrough - Scwarzer, Young, Downing, Wheater
Reading - Doyle
Newcastle - Given, Duff, Milner, Martins, Viduka, N'Zogbia
Sunderland - Jones, Gordon
Birmingham - Forssell, McFadden
Bolton - Nolan, Jääskeläinen
Fulham - Keller, McBride
Derby - Barnes

Snapping up Given if Toon go down should be top priority. After that Young and Downing from Middlesbrough, Jääskeläinen from Bolton, Barnes from Derby or McFadden from Birmingham would be my top picks.

Barnes, Doyle, Downing, Wheater & Milner would be the only players i would like Villa to have an interest in. They are young and have potential.

The rest?, they are either generally a bunch of PL journeymen who were never top notch (Nolan, Jaaskelainen, Shwarzer Melchiot, Forssell) or have almost certainly played their best football in years gone by (Given, Duff, Viduka(who sulked out of Celtic When MON arrived), Keller, Martins).

Of course the only people who should be thinking about Villa transfer targets at this stage should be MON and his staff, there is still 8 games to go.

Helix

Raekwon wrote: »

I think getting a new goalkeeper will be the least of our worries during the summer. Sorensen will definatley leave but I think Carson really wants to stay at Villa Park rather then go back to Anfield and play second fiddle to Pepe Reina, although Liverpool would need to be realistic about his fee if that was to happen. That leaves Taylor, who is a decent keeper and I can't really see him leaving unless he is pushed plus rumour has it that Villa are giving Rotherham's highly rated 17 year old keeper Mark Oxley a trial. No real panic there tbh.

tbh i cant see us keeping carson, itll be guzin imo

Raekwon

Helix wrote: »

tbh i cant see us keeping carson, itll be guzin imo

I think Carson is a decent prospect but I think that Liverpool's valuation of him is crazy. If MON can get him for £4m (ontop of the £2m loan fee already paid) during the summer then he should consider it, but if Liverpool stick with there £8m+ valuation then they can have him back. Guzman would only cost around £2.5m but he is unknown and could be another Peter Enckelman. But as we all know, with MON you are never sure what is going to happen, so only time will tell.

Helix

hes won keeper of the year in the states the last few years, and if yanks are solid in one position, its nets

Tomthepost

invincibleirish wrote: »

Barnes, Doyle, Downing, Wheater & Milner would be the only players i would like Villa to have an interest in. They are young and have potential.

The rest?, they are either generally a bunch of PL journeymen who were never top notch (Nolan, Jaaskelainen, Shwarzer Melchiot, Forssell) or have almost certainly played their best football in years gone by (Given, Duff, Viduka(who sulked out of Celtic When MON arrived), Keller, Martins).

Of course the only people who should be thinking about Villa transfer targets at this stage should be MON and his staff, there is still 8 games to go.

Agree completely with everything you are saying. Maybe would take Shwarzer also however

Tomthepost

If Gardner is out on Sat what will we do at right back???
Osbourne????

shoutman

Maybe Petrov?

~Rebel~

I have a feeling it'll be Barry at rb, with I guess Petrov and Reo-Coker in midfield

Tomthepost

Pity O'Halloran messed up his knee. Would have potentially been a chance for him.
Wouldn't mind seeing Reo Coker tried there. With Petrov back for a final chance to impress in midfield. Petrov would be a disaster at RB.
I have a feeling he will try Osbourne there.
Why oh why did we sell Cahill??????

Villain

I'd imagine Osbourne will play right back but I'd like to someone like Danny Earls, Erik Lund or Shane Lowry get a chance.

Bardsley would have been a nice option!