Villa Signings and General Rumours Thread

DSB

Savman wrote: »

DSB it must get awful lonely sitting there in your sunday best with your party hat and your balloons in anticipation of the wonderful news of MON leaving AVFC. "Rejoice! Hallelujah"" I hear you say.

I'm sure once the alcopops wears off and in the cold light of day you wake up and think to yourself "what now?"

Oh wait, we're covered there right? Martin Jol was it? Or Jose Mourinho? Sorry my memory's not what it once was, who did you say is the league-title winning manager with massive European experience that is waiting, neigh begging, for the coveted Aston Villa hotseat?

*sigh*

Nah I don't drink sorry. And it really isn't my job to appoint the next manager. I don't follow too many leagues outside Ireland and England Premiership so I would only really be in a position to judge 42 managers (22 Irish clubs and the 20 English), but I do follow Villa and I don't think he is doing a good job at all. I'd hope the board can find someone to do a better one. Good job on being ridiculously condescending though with nearly every post.

Savman

http://www.villatalk.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=38456&postdays=0&postorder=asc

Helix

Neil3030 wrote: »

And what makes you so certain it won't?

im not claiming it wont, you on the other hand ARE claiming it will

Helix

Savman wrote: »

DSB it must get awful lonely sitting there in your sunday best with your party hat and your balloons in anticipation of the wonderful news of MON leaving AVFC. "Rejoice! Hallelujah"" I hear you say.

I'm sure once the alcopops wears off and in the cold light of day you wake up and think to yourself "what now?"

Oh wait, we're covered there right? Martin Jol was it? Or Jose Mourinho? Sorry my memory's not what it once was, who did you say is the league-title winning manager with massive European experience that is waiting, neigh begging, for the coveted Aston Villa hotseat?

*sigh*

can you not see the point hes making?

squad wise, we're the weakest we've been for as long as i can remember. are you honestly trying to say that this isnt something that the manager has made a balls of?

whatever your opinion about o'neill, hes not infallible

the bottom line is that he has 2 transfer windows to keep his job, whether you agree with that or not

Savman

Helix wrote: »

the bottom line is that he has 2 transfer windows to keep his job

Says who exactly? You certainly haven't been given that impression by the very same board championing the "five year plan". Quite the contrary actually, they have backed him, and continue to back him, relentlessly.

He's not going anywhere, thankfully.:)

invincibleirish

Helix wrote: »

the bottom line is that he has 2 transfer windows to keep his job, whether you agree with that or not

No one but Randy can set deadlines on MONs exit, MON himself can go if he likes, remember that Rolling contract? this dissent is pitiful but expected, there has been some bad results, the season is all but over, let the summer happen and accentuate the positive, lots of decent young players and *supposed* millions from Randy.

PHB

If you were offered this position at the start of the year, I'd say theres not a single one of you who wouldn't take it. What's changed?

DSB

PHB wrote: »

If you were offered this position at the start of the year, I'd say theres not a single one of you who wouldn't take it. What's changed?

It isn't the league position, I'm fine with that. I just can't see any progression as a team, and any signs that we'll grow in the future. While we're not an old side, we're not a particularly young one either, and I can't help but think that if it wasn't for the O'Leary reign of terror alot of people would be way quicker to judge O'Neill. Personally I amn't of the opinion that a manager should be judged on current results alone.

Raekwon

Villa are still in a transition period and I'm sure MON knows exactly what he is doing. We do need a big summer in the transfer market (and we probably will have one) but MON really needs much more then two seasons to be judged. The bigger picture is that we are moving in the right direction even though it does feel like it right now. Have faith

PHB

You were in the top 4 at Christmas. You're squad wasn't deep enough to maintain that. You've never had a team that can perform that well before. That's progress.

Helix

Savman wrote: »

Says who exactly? You certainly haven't been given that impression by the very same board championing the "five year plan". Quite the contrary actually, they have backed him, and continue to back him, relentlessly.

He's not going anywhere, thankfully.:)

the 5 year plan doesnt necessarily involve mon

if it did hed have had a 5 year contract, not a rolling 12 month one

Helix

PHB wrote: »

You've never had a team that can perform that well before

well, that all depends on how many points we get in the remaining games, but gregory, dol, little and atkinson all finished better than it looks like we're going to this season so that point is utterly ridiculous

Helix

invincibleirish wrote: »

this dissent is pitiful but expected, there has been some bad results, the season is all but over, let the summer happen and accentuate the positive, lots of decent young players and *supposed* millions from Randy.

again, i point to this not being dissent, ive been saying the same things about o'neill since he took over

its become apparent in the last 2 years that he was definitely the man for the job when he took it, and was 100% the man to do what was required to make us a tough team to beat

everyone has their limits tho, and i dont think he has the ability in the transfer market to take us any further than he has done, but i see absolutely no reason not to give him until the end of next season to prove or disprove that

if summer 2009 rolls around and hes ballsed up another 2 windows, the squad is still paper thin, and we're constantly 2 injuries or suspensions away from disaster, then its time to shake his hand, say "thanks martin, youve done brilliantly but its time for us to maybe look at someone with a bit more ambition and nous in the transfer market. we're extremely grateful for the progress youve made with us, and we wish you all the best"

Helix

Raekwon wrote: »

MON really needs much more then two seasons to be judged

absolutely, which is why im saying lets judge him after next season

PHB

Helix wrote: »

well, that all depends on how many points we get in the remaining games, but gregory, dol, little and atkinson all finished better than it looks like we're going to this season so that point is utterly ridiculous

It's not about the end position. It's the fact that Villa were up there with teh limited squad they had, and ultimately they failed because the squad wasn't deep enough. The point was, that they were up there, MON can get that sort of consistancy. If Villa can add depth this summer, they will be able to continue at the heights they were pre-Christmas.

Helix

PHB wrote: »

It's not about the end position. It's the fact that Villa were up there with teh limited squad they had, and ultimately they failed because the squad wasn't deep enough. The point was, that they were up there, MON can get that sort of consistancy. If Villa can add depth this summer, they will be able to continue at the heights they were pre-Christmas.

IF he can do it

hes shown nothing to suggest he has what it takes in the transfer market

a good man manager who continuously buys hoofers will NOT progress a team beyond being tough to beat

PHB

That's true. Its about if. But A. Who'd be better that you could get? [If you are going to say Jol, don't be silly. He couldn't get Spurs there, and also, he didn't control the transfers, so you've no idea how good he would be at it] B. What about all the good singings he has made?
Mourinho won Chelsea two league titles by making them tough to beat, and then have magic men at the front. While Young and Agbanlahour aren't the quality of Robben and Drogba, they aren't half bad.

Helix

PHB wrote: »

That's true. Its about if. But A. Who'd be better that you could get?

we'll have to see come next summer, no point plucking names out of thin air now

PHB wrote: »

B. What about all the good singings he has made?

"all" the good signings? you mean the 1 really good one and the 3 decent ones, while letting 17 players leave the club?

PHB wrote: »

Mourinho won Chelsea two league titles by making them tough to beat, and then have magic men at the front. While Young and Agbanlahour aren't the quality of Robben and Drogba, they aren't half bad.

stop young playing, stop villa playing. or even better, dont give us a corner

Savman

Helix wrote: »

"all" the good signings? you mean the 1 really good one and the 3 decent ones, while letting 17 players leave the club?

Yeah McCann and Samuel have really gone onto greater things. We really miss Djembe Djembe's runs from deep (in the reserves) and boy do we struggle without Milan Baros. :eek:

Helix

Savman wrote: »

Yeah McCann and Samuel have really gone onto greater things. We really miss Djembe Djembe's runs from deep (in the reserves) and boy do we struggle without Milan Baros. :eek:

who would you rather

players with first team premiership experience under their belts or... well, the academy?

theres a time and a place to let players go, and that time is generally after you have signed replacements

Savman

Helix wrote: »

who would you rather

McCann Vs Reo-Coker? Reo-Coker
Moore Vs Agbonlahor? Agbonlahor
Wittingham Vs Ashley Young? Hmm....
Baros Vs Carew? Ha!
JPA Vs Harewood? Marlon's doing the biz
Ridgewell Vs Knight? Too close to call. A draw.
Cahill Vs Davies? Davies for me.
Hendrie Vs Maloney? Shaun by a country mile.
Djembe Djembe Vs Petrov? Stan aint that bad in fairness

Most people only see what their eyes want to see, I guess it boils down to whether you're with or against MON. Polls on fansites would indicate that around 90% of fans still back MON, so you lot in the 10% will be blowing hot steam out your ears for nothing, the man is staying where he is because he is the best person for the job. Take a step back from being a Villa fan and try see the wood from the trees, we got carried away, it happens. 8th is where we deserve to be, fighting it out with Man City who were a similar dark horse this season.

Some of you seem to think that a manager is solely judged on his transfer market activity, that's BS. He steadied a rocky ship, that has been his greatest "achievement" so far. Never mind beating Chelsea and Spurs at home and respectable draws away to Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs/Chelsea again. We also hammered Blackburn away from home and should have beat Man City convincingly at VP. There has been some superb performances this season.

Be honest with yourselves, its not all doom and gloom now is it?

invincibleirish

I think both sides have valid points, and of course MONs transfer activity this summer will be closely analysed, but MON is still being given the benefit of the doubt by Randy and seemingly well supported by the Fans (despite a vocal online minority), thats whats important and seeing the skysports link along with plenty of other articles coming out about how money isnt a problem for Villa, we shall see this summer.

Helix

Savman wrote: »

Be honest with yourselves, its not all doom and gloom now is it?

why do pro mon people keep thinking realists are saying its all doom and gloom?

do you read any of my posts at all like?

nobodys questioning what mon has done to date in terms of what was needed for the club

Savman

Helix wrote: »

do you read any of my posts at all like?

Not really, no. There's nothing new to add to the MON transfer activity argument, and people use it as the only real thing they have on the man even if he's absolutely top notch in other areas of management. Transfers are just one part of it and MON is an easy target for notoriously fickle fans.

DSB

Savman wrote: »

Not really, no. There's nothing new to add to the MON transfer activity argument, and people use it as the only real thing they have on the man even if he's absolutely top notch in other areas of management.

We haven't kept a clean sheet in 20 games though. What do you make of that?

Bounty Hunter

off topic from the whole DSB/Helix vs everyone else MON debate but Villa reserves beat Birmingham Reserves 1-0 tonight

Neil3030

I read your posts Helix and I do take you on your word that you have voiced concerns over MON since the get go, and accept that a lot of pressure will be put on MON (by fans at least) if transfers do not come in over the Summer.

But the reality of the situation is that optimism is justified. An awful lot of the damage to MON's integrity as a manager is a direct result of the perceived failure in light of our arguably fortunate early achievements this season. If you forget that context and look at it the bigger picture, 8th in the league with six matches to play and 49 points is a success for this team, this season.

You accused me a while ago of delusion over what might and will happen, so here is my cause for optimism: The Cleveland Browns. I posted this some time ago that the rebuilding of the Browns since Lerner took over has been gradual and methodical, but after five years they have gone from absolute whipping-boys to serious play-off contenders. I see an identical strategy being employed at Villa.

Also as an aside, while it's obviously naive to mention MON and Sir Alex in the same breath, this is worth noting - Man U finished eleventh in his 3rd season in charge at the club, and didn't win the league until 1993, 7 years after being appointed manager. If some of this vocal anti-MON minority were on the United board circa 1990 Fergie would have been in the dole queue.

DSB

Neil3030 wrote: »

Also as an aside, while it's obviously naive to mention MON and Sir Alex in the same breath, this is worth noting - Man U finished eleventh in his 3rd season in charge at the club, and didn't win the league until 1993, 7 years after being appointed manager. If some of this vocal anti-MON minority were on the United board circa 1990 Fergie would have been in the dole queue.

Not really. I don't have a problem with our current league position (even if were in a few places lower) if I could see where things are likely to improve in future.

Helix

Savman wrote: »

McCann Vs Reo-Coker? Reo-Coker
Moore Vs Agbonlahor? Agbonlahor
Wittingham Vs Ashley Young? Hmm....
Baros Vs Carew? Ha!
JPA Vs Harewood? Marlon's doing the biz
Ridgewell Vs Knight? Too close to call. A draw.
Cahill Vs Davies? Davies for me.
Hendrie Vs Maloney? Shaun by a country mile.
Djembe Djembe Vs Petrov? Stan aint that bad in fairness

whats wrong with mccann AND reo coker
moore AND agbonlahor
wittingham AND young
ridge AND knight
cahill AND davies
hendrie AND maloney?

makes more sense than one or the other with such a small squad, no?

PHB

Because those 5 players are mostly crap, and they don't add to the squad. He's shifted a lot of the deadweight, and now he can continue to add quality to the squad. Wage structures are still an issue ya know.

Savman

Helix wrote: »

whats wrong with mccann
moore
wittingham
ridge
cahill
hendrie

Now you're having a larf. The following is a team made up of players MON has sold (except one who is practically gone anyway).

Sorensen

Hughes - Cahill - Ridgewell - Samuel

Hendrie - McCann - Davies - Wittingham

Moore - Angel

That side would get fooking trounced. Compare that to the current side, I think all becomes clear.

We may not have quantity, but we do have quality. Everyone seems to be able to acknowledge that except for a small number of Villa supporters.

Helix

hughes is a better right back than nigel reo coker

davis/hendrie/mccann/whittingham all better shouts than the black zidane or routledge (at the moment) in the middle

cahill and the ridge are better shouts than knight at the back

theres a thing called cover, that we just dont have. im not for one second saying those players should be in the first team, im saying they shouldnt have been sold until we had replacements for them and enough cover

Helix

PHB wrote: »

Because those 5 players are mostly crap, and they don't add to the squad. He's shifted a lot of the deadweight, and now he can continue to add quality to the squad. Wage structures are still an issue ya know.

if he shifted the deadweight and replaced it with better quality grand, but for the most part he didnt replace it full stop

if youre not going to replace someone, dont get rid of them until you DO have a replacement

Esse85

My gripe with MON is simple but first off at the start of the season i would of accepted 8th position.

However times change rapidly in football and i felt that while we were in 4/5th position around January, i think MON didnt grab the bull by the horns and make a decent attempth to finish 4/5th. The chance was there to seriously challenge a champions league place, we kissed this chance away by not strenghtening the squad. We all knew that the current 11 were playing out of their skin and wouldnt keep it up all season, they needed help, did they get it??? No is the answer. MON took the safe option and lacked ambition i believe.

Its been said that MON wouldnt just sign any old player just for the sake of it, i could understand this if we were signing quality players and i dont mean proven world class players here. But by signing the rubbish (not all) that he has signed, he's sending out a signal to to the fans that this is the the type of player he is after.

I worried he's going to continue signing these type of players in the summer, i hope to God he does nt try sign players from Scotland again, surely the record book suggest these players will not be a success.

Leaving the squad without a RB all season is horriffic and to possess a squad so few in numbers after clearing out about 10 players in the summer and not replacing them entitles fans to question the manager, all in my opinion of course.

Esse85

Id rather have deadwood than nothing.

Savman wrote: »

Now you're having a larf. The following is a team made up of players MON has sold (except one who is practically gone anyway).

Sorensen

Hughes - Cahill - Ridgewell - Samuel

Hendrie - McCann - Davies - Wittingham

Moore - Angel

That side would get fooking trounced. Compare that to the current side, I think all becomes clear.

We may not have quantity, but we do have quality. Everyone seems to be able to acknowledge that except for a small number of Villa supporters.

DSB

Esse85 wrote: »

My gripe with MON is simple but first off at the start of the season i would of accepted 8th position.

However times change rapidly in football and i felt that while we were in 4/5th position around January, i think MON didnt grab the bull by the horns and make a decent attempth to finish 4/5th. The chance was there to seriously challenge a champions league place, we kissed this chance away by not strenghtening the squad. We all knew that the current 11 were playing out of their skin and wouldnt keep it up all season, they needed help, did they get it??? No is the answer. MON took the safe option and lacked ambition i believe.

Its been said that MON wouldnt just sign any old player just for the sake of it, i could understand this if we were signing quality players and i dont mean proven world class players here. But by signing the rubbish (not all) that he has signed, he's sending out a signal to to the fans that this is the the type of player he is after.

I worried he's going to continue signing these type of players in the summer, i hope to God he does nt try sign players from Scotland again, surely the record book suggest these players will not be a success.

Leaving the squad without a RB all season is horriffic and to possess a squad so few in numbers after clearing out about 10 players in the summer and not replacing them entitles fans to question the manager, all in my opinion of course.

This would be almost exactly my point of view of things.

PHB

MON took the safe option and lacked ambition i believe.

What was the other option? Try to buy lots of talented players. It's January! Very few good players move, even less more to Brum, charitably described as a hellhole. Two good players moved in the January window, Defoe and Woodgate. Woodgate was never going to go to Villa, and Defoe apparently wanted to stay close to London, hence Portsmouth.
Ther quality isn't out there in January, it never is. Lots of top managers won't move for people in January, because the players that they can get normally are ****!

If he had done that, he would have bought sub-par players, and then there would be no money in the summer to buy.
He took the safe option, but the safe option was the right option!

anonymous_joe

Not being a Villa fan, I'd be objective here.

That 11 of players sold by O'Neill is very interesting. Those are all the sort of mediocrities you see stuffing the squads of many a Premiership side. Cover is good, but if you're not challenging for anything, and you're not going to get relegated, then Reo-Coker at right back is fine, on the basis that you've shifted a lot of dross.

Presumable, O'Neill has the backing of the chairman, and they've agreed a policy of removing weak and underachieving players, and waiting until the summer so that they can begin the process of securing some new signings, and increasing squad depth, without decreasing quality.

There's definitely reason to hope, there are some young talented players at Villa, even if I can't really see those players ever challenging for the Premiership, it's not inconceivable to mount an assault on the Uefa Cup in the future, and maybe attempt to usurp whoever will be in 4th in a few seasons.

Villain

I have abstained from this discussion on the basis that I don't know what to think of the current form but I want to make it clear in relation to the blog entry that was linked to here, I am of NO DOUBT that Randy Lerner has the best interests of the club at heart and he is not looking to use Villa as a money making excerise I don't see how anyone can look at the way Lerner has acted in the takeover and come to such conclusions.

Lerner applied a loan of 30 million to Aston Villa after he purchased the club he paid the other 30 odd million himself and also injected cash into the club for signings, he recently donated 5million to The National Portrait Gallery in London, which is the biggest donation they've ever received so to post that he is in Aston Villa to make a few million is laughable.

MON imo has a 5 year plan and I actually think that our good run of results early in the season was bad for that 5 year plan in that it raised the fans expectations and made the squad look better than it actually is. Now there is 2 and possibly more ways to look at this imo. MON could have used the good performance to try and push for Europe and use the extra money and incentive to get better players in the summer, however for whatever reason he choose to stay quite in the transfer window and allowed Players like Defoe go elsewhere.

I don't have a major issue with MON not buying players for the sake of buying players but if you look at Zat Knight and Marlon Harewood you would have to question if buying players of that standard and allowing young promising players like Cahill leaving really make sense or this that why MON didn't buy in January because the only players available were of that standard and well Knight hasn't exactly being rock solid and while Harewood's desire can't be questioned his ability to get goals against quality sides can be. Also the signing of his former Celtic pal's Maloney and Petrov haven't really come off, Maloney can be useful as an impact sub but Petrov just isn't up to the Premier League standard imo, he doesn't have the football brain required for the PL, I mean he was put on the right side of midfield but just couldn't play in position he constantly drifted into the middle.

I think the 5 year plan is underway and we have got rid of players that just won't cut it for the push for the top 6 however with the exception of Young and possibly Davies we haven't signed players that will cut it either so in conclusion we have an Owner that imo truly has the club at heart and is willing to support the club with his large wealth, we have a manager that any club would want apart from United (Fergie) and Arsenal (Wenger) imo.

Give him another 2 seasons and judge then

Villa till I die I'm villa till I die I know i am im sure I am

Savman

Esse85 wrote: »

Id rather have deadwood than nothing.

Right. Er, I have absolutely no idea what to say to that.

We don't have "nothing", what part of that don't you understand? We have some excellent players, just not enough of them. Quite clearly the manager has a decision to make, knowing the predicament of the club. Buy more average players or hold out for who we wants/needs? Sure, signing more so-so players will mean you have squad cover, that doesn't mean the "squad cover" will actually survive against the likes of Ronaldo and Torres. So Option B, you try find the players with hunger and ambition to be able to challenge the top teams, only stumbling block (apart from silly transfer fees imposed by chairmen) is that most clubs do not want to sell their best players.

I understand the criticisms of MON in the transfer market, yet not one of the naysayers has been able to pinpoint a single player who would better the squad and be available. Before you go mentioning Diarra or Defoe, it's clear they both wanted guarantees of first team football which is something no proper manager is going to give anybody no matter how good they may be.

So what do you do? You wait, and you build, slowly. Of course you risk the wrath of a few moany fans but if you're a top top manager you will learn to live and die by your decisions. I see that MON is willing to accept that, so more power to him. The board aren't pressurising him into any big money flopstars and 90% of fans are happy with the job he's doing, why would he honestly let the other 10% have their way? Just to keep you quiet? You can't please all the people all of them time and maybe we've been spoiled by the fact he's probably already made the best signings of his entire spell at VP and they all came in his first season. He went and got Young, Carew and Maloney in one transfer window, a clear intent he's willing to move mountains to get the right people. But therein lies the problem, if we hadda paid what Maloney was worth on the open market (£5-6m??) and he performed the way he has done, we'd be moaning that MON has been silly with his spending. Damn if he do and damned if he don't. Some fans still rub it in about Petrov ffs, maybe he's a "wee" bit wiser with Randy's cash, that's not a sackable offense.

Helix

and youll still be saying the same if this time next year its the exact same?

invincibleirish

Savmans 11

Sorensen

Hughes - Cahill - Ridgewell - Samuel

Hendrie - McCann - Davies - Wittingham



Deadwood or valuable squad players, doesnt matter what you call them, JPA aside for the love, that 11 whom MON released inhabit a world full of cliches; like had potential, have a few england caps, had one or two **** hot games etc., but they are crap, Villa are better off without them, id still pick Agbonlahor, Young and the rest of the current squad over that dross til they are dead in the ground from exhaustion!

Neil3030

Just thinking, what would a conservative estimate on the weekly wages these players received while at Villa be? 10k? 15k? That's a saving of over £5m - £9m a year (if you count 11 in total). And then factoring in the transfer fees received for the players, Villa probably netted what, £25m? £30m?.

One Cold Hand

Neil3030 wrote: »

Just thinking, what would a conservative estimate on the weekly wages these players received while at Villa be? 10k? 15k? That's a saving of over £5m - £9m a year (if you count 11 in total). And then factoring in the transfer fees received for the players, Villa probably netted what, £25m? £30m?.

If we want to be successful we have to stop being a selling club. Should we also sell Gabby and Young to net another £25-30mill?
The £5-9mill saving would have been wiped out if we finished a few places higher and qualified for europe.
I said it at the time and I still say it, I can't understand why O'Neill sold those player before signing replacements (or NOT signing replacement as it turned out). He shouldn't have sold Hughes, he should have kept either Cahill or Ridgewell, and should deffo kept Davis, and maybe McCann. Should have argueably kept Moore also.

/Edit Actually, should also have kept Samuel as cover, and Whittingham, partly as cover, and partly as he was a decent young player.

Savman

I think I see now. MON shoulda kept players who weren't good enough, it's irrelevant that they probably woulda cost us more points than they gained us, but at least we'd have a body to put in a shirt.

With the exception of Petrov and Knight, the current squad is head and shoulders above the previous bunch of hopeless under achievers.

I don't agree MON should have kept players he didn't want, completely pointless. Most of those players had stagnated, he got one season out of most of them playing above themselves then shifted them on. Some folks have a very short memory...

PHB

Having crap players also brings down the levels in the squad, and generally makes people worse, especially if they don't have the right personalities.

Savman

PHB wrote: »

Having crap players also brings down the levels in the squad, and generally makes people worse, especially if they don't have the right personalities.

And we've suffered with this for years. Lee Hendrie was a notoriously bad influence on the squad for one, and Sorensen has publicly said some less than flattering things about MON despite the fact he was unchallenged in the Villa goal for far too long. Yet in spite of this some people still actually think MON is wrong to offload him.

Luke Moore was touted as the next big thing, yet despite MON giving him a fairly considerable run in the team he did absolutely nothing, let alone score a goal. I'd prefer to see Delfounso step up from the youth side rather than hold onto half hearted fringe players, none of which, I might add, have actually gone onto better things.

Ridgewell to Birmingham
Cahill, McCann, Samuel to Bolton
Moore to West Brom
Everyone else - lower league opposition

If these players were so good, how come no Top 10 Premiership teams were tripping over each other to sign them? If Cahill was as good as some people believe, how come the only teams interested in him were Birmingham City and Bolton? You can always tell a player's real ability by their demand on the open transfer market.

If Ashley Young handed in a transfer request, there would a Q of top clubs out MON's door.

Helix

Savman wrote: »

I think I see now. MON shoulda kept players who weren't good enough, it's irrelevant that they probably woulda cost us more points than they gained us,

thats such a ridiculous comment i dont know where to start

having some of the players we let go as cover wouldve meant we could have rested the odd player the odd game to keep them fresh. it wouldve meant no playing reo coker at right back when we needed him in the middle of the park

if you actually read posts (youve already said you dont), youd see nobody is saying these blokes would be starting, but theyd be there to give players a chance to rest occasionally so they dont burn out

but maybe youre happy with burning our best players out because it means you dont have to say anything negative about o'neill

Savman

Helix wrote: »

but maybe youre happy with burning our best players out because it means you dont have to say anything negative about o'neill

Wise up will ye. It's not like Reo-Coker has been playing RB all season, 1 or 2 games having players fill in emergency positions is not exactly foundation for your case for keeping 10 players we don't want ordinarily throughout the rest of the season. As already pointed out, it's bad business paying all those wages for average joe's.

You're right on one thing though, I don't like looking for excuses to talk negatively of a manager I'm sure as hell glad we have in the first place. We should thank our lucky stars he chose Villa (yes read that again, he chose us). You're talking about one of the most highly respected managers in the game, a man so highly in demand he has already been touted for most of the top jobs in England including as a potential successor at Anfield and even Old Trafford. If anything, what he's doing at Villa and how he goes about his business in the transfer market has further added to his credibility.

I guess I'm just a little appreciative.

shoutman

It really baffles me that people can wholeheartedly doubt MON and the Villa Park setup.

Yes he is not THE best manager in the world, but I really do not see who would be better at this moment in time.
I also honestly believe that having the deadwood to slot in in times of injury, right back in particular, would have made zero difference to the results. Cahill to centre back and Mellberg on the right, would that have earned us a draw against united?
Not a chance.