Villa Signings and General Rumours Thread

Mr Alan

invincibleirish wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

yes i'm sure.

if gerrard wanted to leave Liverpool, and Real were the only club interested in him.

we would have to deal with them.

similar situation with Barry,Villa and Liverpool.

if the barry wants to leave and Liverpool are the only genuine club interested, they will be forced to deal with us.

DSB

Mr Alan wrote: »

yes i'm sure.

if gerrard wanted to leave Liverpool, and Real were the only club interested in him.

we would have to deal with them.

similar situation with Barry,Villa and Liverpool.

Not really, it'd be a silly club that gos and dives for a player's demands instead of waiting until they get the offer that suits the club. If his contract was up next summer, maybe. But at present, Villa have time to wait.

Mr Alan

would they do that to such a loyal servant to your club? keep him against his will?

i wouldnt have thought so.

Helix

Mr Alan wrote: »

would they do that to such a loyal servant to your club? keep him against his will?

i wouldnt have thought so.

if he was that loyal he wouldnt be demanding a move for less than his market value, hed bide his time til an appropriate offer came in

invincibleirish

Maybe he might announce he'll quit Villa but after a change of heart and some passionate "fans" burning shirts with his name on it and swearing death upon him he'll change his mind?;)

Mr Alan

invincibleirish wrote: »

Maybe he might announce he'll quit Villa but after a change of heart and some passionate "fans" burning shirts with his name on it and swearing death upon him he'll change his mind?;)

maybe you should improve the quality of newspaper you read?

Helix

Mr Alan wrote: »

maybe you should improve the quality of newspaper you read?

oh, so that never happened?

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

maybe you should improve the quality of newspaper you read?

You can keep the Liverpool Echo and i'll stick to the The Grauniad thank you.

Mr Alan

Gerrard never recieved death threats, not as far as i'm aware.

and the guy buring his jersey was nothing to do with him changing his mind.

Helix

excellent, thanks for clearing that up

could you also put an end to the story that liverpool fans attempted to storm the turnstiles at the champions league final last year? oh, and that they were involved in throwing glass bottles and chairs into milan fans who were watching the game outside on the big screen

just to put my mind at ease

invincibleirish

Get outta the Villa thread Mr.Alan! no one here takes seriously your attempts to justify Liverpools actions, We can see the wood for the trees.

Mr Alan

Helix wrote: »

excellent, thanks for clearing that up

could you also put an end to the story that liverpool fans attempted to storm the turnstiles at the champions league final last year? oh, and that they were involved in throwing glass bottles and chairs into milan fans who were watching the game outside on the big screen

just to put my mind at ease

No problem. common misconception, but he put the record straight himself.

As for the CL final, unfortunately you are correct, some Liverpool fans who were locked out of the stadium did try and get into the stadium.

You turnstiles thing is incorrect, one of the reasons it was difficult to police was because there was no turnstiles at the stadium.

and yes, AC and Liverpool fans threw cans,chairs and bottles at each other. that kind of thing is shocking and has no place in football but unfortunately is common place on most European away trips for all clubs, large groups of people very often lead to trouble unfortunately

therecklessone

invincibleirish wrote: »

Example of Liverpool arrogance #394934

he has 2 years on his contract

Villa have plenty of money & dont need to sell

Randy Learner is a rich businessman, he didn't get to that position by making rash business decisions.

In simple terms:

1. If Barry wants to leave there is little you can do.
2. If he does want to leave he will not extend his contract.
3. Barry will be 28 at the end of next season, with only one year left on his contract. Following the Andy Webster ruling by the Court of Arbitration of Sport, Barry would be entitled to leave Villa next summer simply by buying out the remainder of his contract. At the reported salary of £40k a week, that works out a £2m plus change.

Business decision to be made:

Sell Barry now for in excess of £10m or wait a year and get £2m.

There is only one side in the EPL who can say they do not need to sell, and that is only as long as Roman stays at Stamford Bridge. Every other side needs to consider the value of the assets (yes, players are assets) when other sides come sniffing.

You're not desperate to sell, but you won't cut off your nose to spite your face...

invincibleirish

Just as well MON is in charge of transfer policy then isnt it and not the businessmen. this aint Spurs you know where everyone from the chairman to the tea lady has an 'input' on transfer policy.

MON will take the decision that best suits Villa on the footballing side of things.He has money whether he sells Barry or not.

Barry is an asset and a great player, but not indispensable. if he leaves this summer it will be on MONs terms, not Barrys & certainly not Liverpools.Understand that.

Barry rejected Spurs a few seasons ago i recall? im sure if they come with their chequebook then MON might be more amenable. after all Spurs seem willing to spend £20m CASH! not a few million and some deadwood, understand that Rafa/Hicks/Gillette/Parry/Gerrard/Royal Bank Of Scotland/DIC!

therecklessone

invincibleirish wrote: »

Just as well MON is in charge of transfer policy then isnt it and not the businessmen. this aint Spurs you know where everyone from the chairman to the tea lady has an 'input' on transfer policy.

MON will take the decision that best suits Villa on the footballing side of things.He has money whether he sells Barry or not.

Barry is an asset and a great player, but not indispensable. if he leaves this summer it will be on MONs terms, not Barrys & certainly not Liverpools.Understand that.

My my you are a testy wee chap aren't you?

Mr Alan

ok, so if Barry wanted to leave, and Liverpool didnt meet Villas asking price, but made a substancial offer, say 12-14 million, you think MON would hang onto him for another year, and let him go for 2 million next year?

ps:like the way you added in Royal Bank Scotland there

and invincibleirish;spurs arent in the CL. pretty sure that would be an issue for Gareth Barry.

invincibleirish

therecklessone wrote: »

My my you are a testy wee chap aren't you?

Apoligies for the Spurs digs, one of my good friends is a Spurs fan, i have to put up with an awful lot of Spurs nonsense.

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

ok, so if Barry wanted to leave, and Liverpool didnt meet Villas asking price, but made a substancial offer, say 12-14 million, you think MON would hang onto him for another year, and let him go for 2 million next year?

ps:like the way you added in Royal Bank Scotland there

and invincibleirish;spurs arent in the CL. pretty sure that would be an issue for Gareth Barry.

1.If MON hasnt anyone lined up to replace Barry then i can see him keeping him for the season and let him go on the cheap, just look at the Mellberg situation. Barrys 'professionalism' is always highlighted, he can certainly stay one year if he really wants a dream move to Liverpool.

2. RBS are a key stakeholder in LFCs transfer policy no?

3. i can see Spurs trying to tempt him. if Barry goes all Dwight Yorke
on Villa and really burns his bridges then its open season really, whoever bids biggest wins.

Savman

Bye Bye Europe, Bye Bye Gareth.

Mr Alan

invincibleirish wrote: »

2. RBS are a key stakeholder in LFCs transfer policy no?

3. i can see Spurs trying to tempt him. if Barry goes all Dwight Yorke
on Villa and really burns his bridges then its open season really, whoever bids biggest wins.

2. no more so than the Glazers and watever financial institution they borrowed from. Or most other football clubs for that matter. Possibly even Villa?

3. Barry really doesnt strike me as that kind of player. And Villa dont strike me as that kind of club. If Barry moves, it'll be for CL football, otherwise he may as well stay where he is.

and isnt Sidwell already lined up to replace Barry?

Helix

invincibleirish wrote: »

1.If MON hasnt anyone lined up to replace Barry then i can see him keeping him for the season and let him go on the cheap, just look at the Mellberg situation. Barrys 'professionalism' is always highlighted, he can certainly stay one year if he really wants a dream move to Liverpool.

this is exactly whatll happen imo

if we dont get the right bid, mon will explain it to barry, let him stay the extra season and then let him buy out his contract if he wants to

the fact of the matter, and the way im sure mon is looking at it, is that if we dont get a bid that matches our valuation of the player, keeping him for an extra season while running the risk of losing him on the cheap might in fact be more financially beneficial to the club than letting him go for less than hes worth right now

PHB

In terms of how will things go,

Villa may look at the potential net loss of 8 million. But what if they see Liverpool as the team they can knock out to get the CL spot? Not improving them as a team then might be worth way more.

Barry ultimately is under contract. Even if Liverpool are the only place he'll go to, if Liverpool only offer 5 million, MON will tell them to **** off. 10 million might be the price that sells him, but if thats the price, lots of other clubs will be looking at him for that price, Spurs being a great example.

If thats the case, and Spurs are willing to say buy him for 15 million, Villa might just give him the choice of Spurs or stay for a year (while he sees out the peak of his career) and leave on a free. Barry's position isn't as strong as some people are saying, he is nearing the end of his career.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

Villa may look at the potential net loss of 8 million. But what if they see Liverpool as the team they can knock out to get the CL spot?

Martin O'Neill is not an idiot.
If everything were to go to plan for MON and Villa, i'd imagine even they dont expect to be challenging for the CL for another 2-4 seasons, which will mean that Barry will be more than likely finished.

invincibleirish

Villa, Spurs, Everton, Portsmouth, West Ham, Man City, Blackburn and maybe a few more are gunning for 4th spot, some one will get it sooner or later. Especially with the money being spent.Liverpool, who continously are cast adrift of the Title challenging teams seem to be best placed to be taken down.

The point i am repeatedly making is if it comes down to Money, Villa arent going to sell on the cheap to Liverpool, and i seriously doubt Liverpool have the means to match Villas valuation AND spend big on other players. Certainly with the patronising deal they are reported to have offered they better get serious or get lost.

This saga is probably going to play out over the next while. But its Villa who are in the position of strength.

PHB

Mr Alan wrote: »

Martin O'Neill is not an idiot.

Hey, personally I don't think anyone can break into the top 4 bar maybe Spurs, but Spurs considered this exact logic when they were deciding whether or not to sell Carrick to United. Shocking I know, but that's how they are planning I'd assume.

Mr Alan

ah poor petal, ya really think i am attacking Villa and yourselves here, when i really amnt.

Liverpool have finsihed 3rd last two seasons and closed the gap at the top from last year.

i amnt worried tbh. if any of the chasing clubs were gonna catch us, this was the year to do it, we were in turmoil on the pitch for about 6 weeks, and in turmoil in the boardroom all year, yet no one could capitialise.

the gap between the top 4 and clubs below em is substantial. gareth barry knows this.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

I don't think anyone can break into the top 4 bar maybe Bolton

you wat?!:eek:

PHB

Sorry Spurs, was wathcing Bolton

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

the gap between the top 4 and clubs below em is substantial. gareth barry knows this.

I disagree, Liverpool occupy their own space, essentially its the top 3(those who can sustain a PL challenge) then Liverpool, then the challengers. As Everton & Spurs have proven its eminently possible to usurp or come close to getting 4th.

Be honest do you think Arsenal, Man Utd or Chelsea would even think about buying Barry? if they did then would you really think they would put together some two bit deadwood players + cash deal? no they would just flash the chequebook.

Mr Alan

We've finished ahead of Arsenal the last 2 seasons? wat are you talking about? Arsenal rarely/never, flash the cheque book! also looks like they're losing flamini and hleb this season, whereas we are strenghtening.

and another thing,

you should probably stop refering to your keeper all year as nameless/deadwood player! cant imagine MON refering to him as that yesterday did his confidence much good for today!

PHB

also looks like they're losing flamini and hleb this season, whereas we are strenghtening.

Whereas Arsenal won't? Are you still clinging to this dream that you and Arsenal have had similar seasons?

Carson is an average keeper, he's not good enough for Villa and MON knows this.

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

We've finished ahead of Arsenal the last 2 seasons? wat are you talking about? Arsenal rarely/never, flash the cheque book! also looks like they're losing flamini and hleb this season, whereas we are strenghtening.

and another thing,

you should probably stop refering to your keeper all year as nameless/deadwood player! cant imagine MON refering to him as that yesterday did his confidence much good for today!

look no offence but your club is suffering a degree of turmoil, Hicks/Gillette and its repercussions are only going to continue, who knows when the next spat will occur. The manner in which they are trying to capture Barry is, whether successful or not, almost embarrassing. If Arsenal, Chelsea or Man Utd wanted Barry they could have him.

I would reason clubs who are aiming to break top 4 next season will be focusing on Liverpool and not the other 3.

*edit* Carson aint great, if Villa are to keep him it will be for a let less then the £12m Liverpool are wanting, now who is setting unrealistic prices:D

Mr Alan

No i am clinging to the FACT that in the last 2 years we have finished ahead of Arsenal. Thats all i really said. And i think Hleb and Flamini will be massive losses for em next year if they go.

We have closed the gap in a big way on the league leaders this year. you yourself were taken aback by the stat that we've picked up 44 points against opposition outside the top 4, and Utd have picked up 46.

funny that even though i think we are getting closer to the title, opposition fans think we are weakening

and invincibleirish; i agree that G&H are making our club worse than Brookside, and it is embarrasing being honest. But i dont expect them to be there next year tbh.

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

No i am clinging to the FACT that in the last 2 years we have finished ahead of Arsenal. Thats all i really said. And i think Hleb and Flamini will be massive losses for em next year if they go.

We have closed the gap in a big way on the league leaders this year. you yourself were taken aback by the stat that we've picked up 44 points against opposition outside the top 4, and Utd have picked up 46.

funny that even though i think we are getting closer to the title, opposition fans think we are weakening

I'll just say i disagree with your view but we're bringing this off topic, this a Villa thread.

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

and invincibleirish; i agree that G&H are making our club worse than Brookside, and it is embarrasing being honest. But i dont expect them to be there next year tbh.

Then at least we can agree on something. Hopefully your prediction is proven right.

Mr Alan

invincibleirish wrote: »

I'll just say i disagree with your view but we're bringing this off topic, this a Villa thread.

fair enough.

Villain

I thought this was the Villa thread? not the Liverpool or Arenal thread.

Anyway todays result is shocking and once again proves we need a proven goal scoring striker and creative midfield player.

As for Barry if he wants to leave then sell him but not to our rivals, despite what Liverpool fans might think while Rafa is in charge they will never challenge for the PL title, Chelsea, Arsenal and Utd will improve big time over the summer and tbh if Liverpool want to challenge them I think buying Barry would not help them, is he better than Gerrard or Alonso or Mascherano?? imo no and thats why imo it would be a bad move for Barry and Liverpool.

Barry won't get a regular place in his best position (CM) he'll prob end up wide left and be a sub a lot, he's coming to the end of his career and while he might like to win trophies I think more so he will want to play regulary and have a chance of playing for England in the World Cup Qualifiers and if he goes to Liverpool I don't see that helping at all. I think we can get a CM to replace Barry the only thing we will really miss if he leaves is his left foot for dead ball's but a good Left Winger might be able to step in there.

You know in one way missing out on Uefa could be a blessing in diguise, I'm not saying I don't want us to get Uefa spot because obviously playing in Europe is good for many reasons, but I think a Uefa cup run next season might be a season too early, take Everton for example they were pushing Liverpool hard for 4th but I think the European run hit their small squad and ended up in their bad run in the league, for the same reason I think the Intertoto cup is a bad move, I mean unless MON is going to buy 10 players who can come straight into the squad and fight for a place in the 16 every week we are still going to have a small squad so I'd rather we build on this year and challenged for 4th spot and champions league for the following season than have a Uefa cup and struggle to get a Uefa cup spot again next season. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Bounty Hunter

TBH I agree with Mr Alan, Liverpool had turmoil off the pitch and on it at times this year and nobody capitalised. Unless that was to happen again next year and Villa were to heavily improve the squad and once more thanks to O'Neils guidance overachieve (ie MON seems to make players preform better than they would otherwise) Villa wont make 4th for atleast a few seasons and neither will any other club with the possible exception of Spurs. However Villa are heading in the right direction and heading that way in a much more likeable fashion than some other clubs trying to make the same transition (Man City, Newcastle etc). Villa are very unlucky with the way the FA cup went and would usually have Uefa cup football anyway.

PHB

I do agree with the idea that sometimes you can get a Europe spot too early, but its important to build up your coefficient so that when you do get into the CL some year, you'll actually be able to qualify for it!!

Also UEFA Cup is important to lots of players, people want to play in Europe, and if Villa were in the UEFA Cup next year, they'd have a decent chance of winning it.

invincibleirish

Today gave plenty food for thought, talks of an overhaul over the summer are legitimate as too often Villa this season have been tepid in fixtures like these. Villa needed a big performance today but Wigan were the better team. we may qualify for the UEFA Cup we may finish 8th, but really thoughts should be turned to next season and what improvements are needed. All this Barry speculation reinforces this.

Helix

Mr Alan wrote: »

Arsenal rarely/never, flash the cheque book! also looks like they're losing flamini and hleb this season

barry would be the ideal replacement for flamini and im sure wenger knows that

and im fairly sure its just rumours and conjecture that helb is going anywhere, no offers confirmed, just your usual foreign paper talk

Mr Alan

actually a lot of arsenal fans think that both club and player have already agreed a deal with Inter Milan.

Barry would be a decent replacement, but do you think Wenger will pay 20 million, or watever you feel he is worth?

i'd imagine Liverpool would offer more than Arsenal. I'm sure the reason Rafa offered a couple of players is because your squad is very thin, and yous will more than likely have an interest in a couple of our players in the summer anyway, pennant,carson,riise,finnan,crouch

Bounty Hunter

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'd imagine Liverpool would offer more than Arsenal. I'm sure the reason Rafa offered a couple of players is because your squad is very thin, and yous will more than likely have an interest in a couple of our players in the summer anyway, pennant,carson,riise,finnan,crouch

personally I would only like Finnan out of those players and he is no spring chicken. Pennant would be alright but I wouldent chase him. I prefer Carew to Crouch and doubt Crouch would want to return to VP to sit on the bench as Carew backup, similarily I wouldent mind Riise as a squad player but doubt hed wanna swap being a squad player at Pool to be one at VP and Carson umm... dont dislike the guy but dont have confidence in him and tbh i dont think he has too much confidence in himself since his Engand escapade and it has shown through his lack of clean sheets.

Would prefer to get Jussi for free than Carson atm

therecklessone

PHB wrote: »

Barry's position isn't as strong as some people are saying, he is nearing the end of his career.

Just to provide context, of the England senior squad named for the fixture against France in March, Gareth Barry was older than only 7 of the 23 man squad.

John Terry
Rio Ferdinand
Ashley Cole
Frank Lampard
Steven Gerrard
Peter Crouch

All older than him, none of whom would be described as nearing the end of their careers.

PHB

In terms of their next contract, yes they are. Ferdinand has signed his last contract just last week.

He's 28 now. If he's 30 at his next contract he'll make nowhere near as much money, and he'll have missed 2 years of his peak. He is nearing the end of his career, as is Ferdinand. He is in a footballing sense 2 contracts older than say Ronaldo. If he wants to play at the highest levels, he has only one contract left. If he's willing to play at a lower level (like mid-table to relegation) he's got 2.

therecklessone

PHB wrote: »

In terms of their next contract, yes they are. Ferdinand has signed his last contract just last week.

He's 28 now. If he's 30 at his next contract he'll make nowhere near as much money, and he'll have missed 2 years of his peak. He is nearing the end of his career, as is Ferdinand. He is in a footballing sense 2 contracts older than say Ronaldo. If he wants to play at the highest levels, he has only one contract left. If he's willing to play at a lower level (like mid-table to relegation) he's got 2.

He's 27. Born Feb 1981.

In the new post-Webster transfer world he could be renegotiating another contract in 2 years time at 29.

Forget 4 year contract terms once a player reached 28.

Esse85

I agree with others when they say Europe would of been too early for us this season. Qualification would of ment at least 8 new signings, and this number is too much for a team to sign in a transfer window.

I can bet by the end of the end of August we'll still have a relatively small squad. I know we need numbers badly but the more players brought in, the longer the team will take to gel.

Realistic targets i think we should identify are:

Jussi at Bolton
Miguel at Valencia
SWP at Chelsea
Sidwell at Chelsea
Huddlestone at Spurs
N'Zogbia at Newcastle
Ben Haim at Chelsea
Doyle at Reading

Id put 4 of these straight into the first team.
On to today's game, i thought Carson was too far off his line for the first goal, that may seem harsh.
The second goal wasnt helped with having a CM playing as a RB.

Helix

my ideal list would be

jaskeliinen
guzman
hoyte
nelson
sidwell
swp
shorey
ben haim
huddlestone
and a bash at huntelaar

5 out of those and id be a happy man

JPA

Helix wrote: »

my ideal list would be

jaskeliinen
guzman
hoyte
nelson
sidwell
swp
shorey
ben haim
huddlestone
and a bash at huntelaar

5 out of those and id be a happy man

Seriously?

jaskeliinen - Good but gone downhil
guzan - unknown
hoyte - not good enough
nelson - unknown but good pedigree
sidwell - average
swp - average but MON could get the best from him
shorey - average
ben haim - average
huddlestone - decent
huntelaar - unrealistic but I think you're joking

I think we'll sign a much higher calibre of player than most of them.

Esse85

Like who so??