Villa Signings and General Rumours Thread

Savman

mike65 wrote: »

If MON wants 20 milliion for Barry then Rafa should buy Van Der Vaart and sell one extra player!

hehe, y'know what, you're dead right.

And that in itself epitomises the screwed up logic that perpetuates this silly money transfer business. Ain't no way Gareth Barry is worth £15m in the real world, let alone £20m or anything like it.
Ronaldo cost ManU £12m
Ronaldinho cost Barca £21m
Torres cost Pool around £20m
Henry cost Arsenal £10.5m

They were all world class players and when you compare the transfer fee to someone as ordinary as Gareth Barry you really have to wonder what the hell is going on in the PL, clubs seem to have more money than sense.

Barry is actually worth about £7-8m max, no point pretending otherwise. The only reason he's going for more than that is because of the open market selling price on English players. That'll have to stop sooner or later because it's not really sustainable in the long term...being British isn't exactly a rare commodity. I think it's just the recent influx of the TV deal millions causing a lot of silly sums to be quoted for slightly above average players a la Barry, Crouch, Carson, Pennant etc.

Bounty Hunter

surprised this hasnt been entioned thus far (if it has sorry)

Aston Villa have made an approach for Wolves's £6m-rated keeper Wayne Hennessey. (Daily Mirror)

I really rate Hennessey and after aybe Hart think he is the best young Goalie playing in england atm and would be very happy should we sign him.

invincibleirish

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

surprised this hasnt been entioned thus far (if it has sorry)

Aston Villa have made an approach for Wolves's £6m-rated keeper Wayne Hennessey. (Daily Mirror)

I really rate Hennessey and after aybe Hart think he is the best young Goalie playing in england atm and would be very happy should we sign him.

Boaz Myhill would do the job also, but of course i doubt he would come back to Villa after they turfed him out a long long time ago.

Carson is still viable once the Barry saga is put to bed

How about Cudicini? he must be getting sick of that Chelsea bench

And what word on Guzan? in the same vein how about Brad Friedel on a shortened contract now Hughes is gone?

Neil3030

Wasn't Hennessey a done deal earlier in the week for Arsenal? Or did I dream that?

Arda Turan - There's a player with some serious potential that I'd dearly love MON to make a punt for.

invincibleirish

there is nothing on his wiki suggesting he has gone to Arsenal, and if we're scouting for Euro 2008 talent, MON buy J. Moutinho! he's only 20 and looks class.

IrishMike

invincibleirish wrote: »

there is nothing on his wiki suggesting he has gone to Arsenal, and if we're scouting for Euro 2008 talent, MON buy J. Moutinho! he's only 20 and looks class.

Would cost too much and wouldnt move to a club outside the CL.
He is one of the most wanted players in Europe.
Would take a lot of money (in wages) to tempt big names to clubs who
dont have CL football, Villa so far dont seem to be willing to do that so
that will seriously curtail their targets.
It will be a case of MON trying to find rough diamonds rather than quality
well known players as long as the wage structure is adhedered to.

invincibleirish

Savman wrote: »

hehe, y'know what, you're dead right.

And that in itself epitomises the screwed up logic that perpetuates this silly money transfer business. Ain't no way Gareth Barry is worth £15m in the real world, let alone £20m or anything like it.
Ronaldo cost ManU £12m
Ronaldinho cost Barca £21m
Torres cost Pool around £20m
Henry cost Arsenal £10.5m

They were all world class players and when you compare the transfer fee to someone as ordinary as Gareth Barry you really have to wonder what the hell is going on in the PL, clubs seem to have more money than sense.

Barry is actually worth about £7-8m max, no point pretending otherwise. The only reason he's going for more than that is because of the open market selling price on English players. That'll have to stop sooner or later because it's not really sustainable in the long term...being British isn't exactly a rare commodity. I think it's just the recent influx of the TV deal millions causing a lot of silly sums to be quoted for slightly above average players a la Barry, Crouch, Carson, Pennant etc.

In fairness Henry,Torres etc were not world class when they were signed in the transfers above.

Im mystified as to why people think Barry is worth less then 10m, transfer fees are not subject to any kind of logic other then how much one club has and how much another club is willing to sell for.A players worth is only determined by how much a club wants to pay for him.

I take my hat off to Villa & MON for digging in on this transfer. Liverpool tried to soften up the club with hawarden kites in the media implying a cut price deal + Liverpool reserves would be suitable, this was done i guess in the assumption that Villa would just roll over and acept the transfer.

£20m+ is an acceptable price for unsettling Villas captain and conducting the transfer through the media. Remember Villa do not need the money, dont want to lose the player and are in competition with Liverpool for the CL spots. If MON is feeling cheeky then perhaps 20m + Carson?

invincibleirish

IrishMike wrote: »

Would cost too much and wouldnt move to a club outside the CL.
He is one of the most wanted players in Europe.
Would take a lot of money (in wages) to tempt big names to clubs who
dont have CL football, Villa so far dont seem to be willing to do that so
that will seriously curtail their targets.
It will be a case of MON trying to find rough diamonds rather than quality
well known players as long as the wage structure is adhedered to.

Thanks for that J. Moutinhos agent:pac:

DSB

invincibleirish wrote: »

In fairness Henry,Torres etc were not world class when they were signed in the transfers above.

Im mystified as to why people think Barry is worth less then 10m, transfer fees are not subject to any kind of logic other then how much one club has and how much another club is willing to sell for.

I take my hat off to Villa & MON for digging in on this transfer. Liverpool tried to soften up the club with hawarden kites in the media implying a cut price deal + Liverpool reserves would bu suitable.

£20m+ is an acceptable price for unsettling Villas captain and conducting the transfer through the media. Remember Villa do not need the money, dont want to lose the player and are in competition with Liverpool for the CL spots. If MON is feeling cheeky then perhaps 20m + Carson?

Agreed. Villa should definitely be holding out for inflated prices considering we've no actual desire to sell.

Savman

invincibleirish wrote: »

A players worth is only determined by how much a club wants to pay for him.

That's kinda my point actually. If Liverpool want to take him for £15m, then that represents great business for AVFC because
a) ain't no way he'd be worth anywhere near that normally
b) he'll never be worth that amount again so his value decreases from here on in

It's not like there are a host of clubs in a bidding war for Barry, it basically seems to be Liverpool and nobody else. I'll still boo the defecting whore, but I can't deny this is a great payday for the club.

JPA

Maybe in terms of footballing ability he is not worth £15 million but he is also the captain and a 10 year veteran of the team so how much money is that worth?

They are intangible elements but at this time they have monetary values.

invincibleirish

Savman wrote: »

That's kinda my point actually. If Liverpool want to take him for £15m, then that represents great business for AVFC because
a) ain't no way he'd be worth anywhere near that normally
b) he'll never be worth that amount again so his value decreases from here on in

It's not like there are a host of clubs in a bidding war for Barry, it basically seems to be Liverpool and nobody else. I'll still boo the defecting whore, but I can't deny this is a great payday for the club.

Well the scenario is, if he goes it will be for 15-20m plus possibly a decent player that MON wants not who Rafa wants to get rid of. Thats a result

If Liverpool wont (cant) pay Villa what they want, Maybe Barry ought to consider choosing his friends and legal representative more carefully.

After all i've no doubt all those voices in Barrys ear reassured him that Villa would roll over. Lets see how much Stevie G and Rafa really want him to come to Anfield now Villa are asking for big money.


If he stays, much has been made of his supposed professionalism(:rolleyes:), if he starts next season surely he'll play well, as he will be effectively in the shop window looking for a buyer.

I hope he goes, otherwise things might turn ugly, no doubt those scouse tinged whispers in his ear will tell him to get uppity.

Savman

JPA wrote: »

Maybe in terms of footballing ability he is not worth £15 million but he is also the captain and a 10 year veteran of the team so how much money is that worth?

They are intangible elements but at this time they have monetary values.

Absolutely, I'm not ignoring the key factors, just an observation on the transfer market in general. Ordinarily a player of Barry's ability would not be commanding such a huge transfer fee. It's probably worked against Liverpool that they made it public knowledge they "desperately" wanted him. Silly move.
"Oh, you're desperate? Oh well in that case add £5m.":pac:

invincibleirish

Savman wrote: »

"Oh, you're desperate? Oh well in that case add £5m.":pac:

+1 Yossi Benayoun to go please.

invincibleirish

So who is going to be captian once Gaz Baz goes? surely its Laursen or NRC, is there really any other candidates?

Bounty Hunter

is Barry going somewhere? first ive heard about it

id agree though and expect Reo-Coker with Laursen as VC if Barry departs.

invincibleirish

To start the white washing of GB from Villa history, isnt NRC captain unofficially anyway. GB got the captaincy by virtue of being at VP longer then any of the players, manager or owner!.

But GB is soft spoken so was it not NRC who did all the talking so to speak?

Bounty Hunter

Yeah NRC used to always led the huddles etc he was the vocal leader while Barry was the lead by example type, good combo tbh. NRC was Wimbeldon, West Ham & England U-21 captain previously despite only just turning 24 (sometimes it helps to have a gob on ya). he willbe the Next Villa captain if Barry goes for def

~Rebel~

If Barry doesn't go, surely he cant remain captain anyway.

How would people feel about Laursen as captain? imo the perfect choice.

invincibleirish

I always forget he was at Wimbledon, the crazy gang seem like they've been gone years. Wonder if he was in the team when Villa condemned them to Relegation years ago in a 2-2 draw.

Bounty Hunter

~Rebel~ wrote: »

If Barry doesn't go, surely he cant remain captain anyway.

How would people feel about Laursen as captain? imo the perfect choice.

well its a toss up between him and NRC tbh and i dont think any Villa fan would mind either although his vocal leadership and his previous captaining experience which i outlined above inc with the other former england youth players at Villa id guess it would be Nige with Laursen as VC.

~Rebel~

Is NRC guaranteed to be a regular starter for, say, the next 2 or 3 years though? Eg if Barry stays and Sidwell gets brought in...

invincibleirish

Actually a point i forget to make was the role of Petrov, now he must be a man willing Barry to leave so he can slot in next to NRC in midfield.

tomred1

Was Curtis Davies captain at West Brom? I would like him or Laursen. Nrc is the only other real candidate.

invincibleirish

well Curtis Davies is out til Sept at the earliest, maybe Vice-Captain?

DSB

invincibleirish wrote: »

Actually a point i forget to make was the role of Petrov, now he must be a man willing Barry to leave so he can slot in next to NRC in midfield.

I'm sure if Barry leaves we'll sign someone else who will also be better than Petrov.

invincibleirish

You never know with MON. I think he should be given a run in the centre no matter who Villa sign, there's a half decent player somewhere in Petrovs body.Wasnt he bought anyway to replace GB in 2006 when our beloved captain was eyeing up Portsmouth & Spurs?

DSB

invincibleirish wrote: »

You never know with MON. I think he should be given a run in the centre no matter who Villa sign, there's a half decent player somewhere in Petrovs body.Wasnt he bought anyway to replace GB in 2006 when our beloved captain was eyeing up Portsmouth & Spurs?

I think hes crap. Centre mid is one of those players we'll need someone of Barry's quality in if we're to keep challenging for Europe. No signing we should make should be a highly-rated youngster here, we need someone who oozes class.

Helix

id expect it to be nrc with laursen as vc, same as everyone else, but what about big john as an outsider

~Rebel~

Helix wrote: »

id expect it to be nrc with laursen as vc, same as everyone else, but what about big john as an outsider

not a fan of strikers as captains, unless they epitomize the club like Raul.

Bounty Hunter

from the same article quoting Doug Ellis in the Barry thread another Portugese RB has now been linked to Villa

With Napoli completing the signing yesterday of Christian Maggio for a reported fee of £6 million, O’Neill is thought to be considering granting Pascal Chimbonda’s wish of completing a £2million deal whilst up-and-coming Sporting Braga right-back Joao Pereira has now come to his attention.

The 24-year-old Portuguese defender has been linked to FC Porto following the departure of former Villa target Jose Bosingwa to Chelsea.

thats him on the left

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruiDXeVuEFc

DSB

Whoever we're signing can we not just ****in do it before all our targets find other clubs.

zing

~Rebel~ wrote: »

If Barry doesn't go, surely he cant remain captain anyway.

Why can't he ? Gerrard did and while the circumstances aren't the exact same there isn't a world of a difference between them.

Besides if Barry does stay I fully expect the story to be spun (in a good way) that it's his decision and is down to his love for the club & his desire to stay with them.

Mr Alan

zing wrote: »

Why can't he ? Gerrard did and while the circumstances aren't the exact same there isn't a world of a difference between them.

Massive difference, Gerrard decided he was making the wrong decision and wanted to stay for the club, he also actually offered up the captains armband but Rafa, Carragher and Hypia said that he was their captain.

Whereas Barry wants to leave, he has told oneill this, if he doesnt now, it'll be because a fee cant be agreed.

world of difference tbh

Villain

Barry could do the exact same Mr Alan, I don't think he will but he could

zing

Is there really that much of a difference ? Because from where we are now with Barry I can't see that much of one. Gerrard had told the club he wanted to leave and the club had even issued a press statement to that affect. Barry has also told his club he wants to leave. I don't recall whether or not LFC had officially received any bids for him at the time but it would have just been a matter of time until he had his change of heart.

If it turns out he's staying - be that through a change of heart or the clubs not agreeing a fee - then who knows - maybe he'll offer up the armband as Gerrard did ? But we'll have to wait and see what happens in the next few days/weeks.

Bounty Hunter

why is there Barry/transfer/tapping up/him and his bum chum StevieG/etc... discussion here still?

~Rebel~

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

why is there Barry/transfer/tapping up/him and his bum chum StevieG/etc... discussion here still?

its not really, its about who'll be next captain. I said a few hours ago that obv there would prob need to be a new captain anyway as it would be very hard to keep someone on as captain who had asked to leave. Didn't really think it was a very controversial thing to say really, figured it would be the normal result of circumstances like this, like Gerrard offering up his captaincy, Lucas Neil losing his captaincy of Blackburn when he did the same thing etc. Just wouldn't make sense, you cant be represented by someone the fans feel aggreived by and who's fellow players know had actively tried to leave only to be blocked by something outside his control.

I really dont think NRC is gonna play enough over the coming years to be made captain now. I like him as a player but i can see Villa strengthening enough to where he'd be a rotated/squad player. Still play plenty im sure but you need an ever present imo as captain. Were Sidwell to come in, I wouldn't be shocked to see him be made captain immediately, would be a good choice imo. A leader in the middle of the pitch is ideal. I suggested Laursen earlier, but at the same time with his previous injuries you just never know...

Zing, <edit>A bid of 32million was rejected, then later that evening Gerrard told Parry he wanted to leave. a day and a half or so after, he made the big U-turn</edit> A lot of fans actually did want it stripped from him and given to Carra, but Carra, Hypia and Rafa all said they wanted him to keep it.

Esse85

The Portsmouth fans have it so easy with Harry Redknapp being in charge. In the past 12 months they've signed quality players like Jonnson, Defoe and Diarra while Harry is openly honest about players he wants to sign e.g Crouch, Dunne and Gudjohnson.

I think Villa can cope with the loss of Barry this season, its the message his departure is sending out to the rest of the players like Young, Agbonlahor and Davies that worries me. What must they be thinking, that their captain believes the club arent good enough to play in the champions league for the next few years. Well if those 3 players i mentioned have a good season im 08/09 then i just hope we wont have to face this situation again next summer.

I honestly feel like Doug Ellis is in charge of the club now, its like we're counting the pennies again, headlines such as MON refuses to pay over the odds, or Villa refuse to break wage structure. We needed an awful lot of reinforcements before we knew GB wanted to leave, we need a mountainous amount of players now, not up and coming youngsters who have potential but ready made quality. We cant afford to just search England for talent as seems the case or we'll find ourselves left behind.

~Rebel~

Esse85 wrote: »

I think Villa can cope with the loss of Barry this season, its the message his departure is sending out to the rest of the players like Young, Agbonlahor and Davies that worries me. What must they be thinking, that their captain believes the club arent good enough to play in the champions league for the next few years. Well if those 3 players i mentioned have a good season im 08/09 then i just hope we wont have to face this situation again next summer.

I really think Villa need to break out that Lerner money and make, say, 3 big bids for star players. Even if you dont get them, its the message it sends out thats important. It will also help with attracting the next level down from very top if they see efforts like that. Take Man City, the world now knows they're in seriously for Ronaldinho, they mean business, they're trying to start something big. Same With Spurs bringing in two of the best young talents around in Modric and Dos Santos.

Villa apparantly don't need the money, so should really spend whatever they get from Liverpool, and more on a top top level midfielder, like VDV, De Rossi etc. Also something like a 40mill double bid for Villa and Silva. Doubt would be accepted but again, it sends a message, it shakes off the penny pinching, happy with mid table image. Its whats needed to be done for Villa to really push for that top 4. Now's the chance with Liverpool in financial crisis

Esse85

^^^^

Couldnt agree more.

invincibleirish

Its hardly ground breaking stuff, bring a big money/big name player to appease the fans, its a common tactic which always works in assuaging nervy fans fears the world over.

Why even our Pool supporting chums in this thread can testify to that, they've been an awful lot quieter about H&G now Torres is on fire.

But i dont think a clutch of 20m signings is necessarily a good thing, we already have a wunderkid in Young, i'd like to see a continuation of the policy that signed Young, Davies & Carew and finally filling that elusive RB slot, Im guessing MON & Lerner have a policy of evolution not revolution, whilst it can be frustrating as Villa fans, ultimately we have to give MON & Lerner the benefit of the doubt in them persuing success this way rather then the Man City/Spurs way.

~Rebel~

invincibleirish wrote: »

Why even our Pool supporting chums in this thread can testify to that, they've been an awful lot quieter about H&G now Torres is on fire.

Dunno about that..its since Torres arrived that most of the fan movements have really gone to war with H+G. allowing us to spend 20mill of tv money doesn't quite make up for the 300million debt on the club minus a stadium.

I know what you mean with the slow and steady approach, but as i said bids that you don't necessarily see succeeding will do the good of raising the clubs profile without the bad of having primadonnas. Also would help in attracting the more good but not world class players.

invincibleirish

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Dunno about that..its since Torres arrived that most of the fan movements have really gone to war with H+G. allowing us to spend 20mill of tv money doesn't quite make up for the 300million debt on the club minus a stadium.

I know what you mean with the slow and steady approach, but as i said bids that you don't necessarily see succeeding will do the good of raising the clubs profile without the bad of having primadonnas. Also would help in attracting the more good but not world class players

Well what will happen to H&G if they sell Torres to Chelsea? exactly fan anger. Liverpool did no better then in 07/08 with Torres then the season prior before Torres, but his signing has given Liverpool & thier supporters a renewed confidence.(im sure GB will match that:pac:).

To bring this back to Villa(we dont need more LFC musings on this thread;)), a Marquee signing ala JPA but sexier could do wonders like Torres but even though MON has mused in the past he is prepared to spend big, the likelihood this will only be in the persuit of potential like Young & Davies rather then try for a Ronaldinho or an Eto'o(who Villa would have to pay over the odds for anyway to persuade those players to even consider VP).

I like MONs transfer policy for the most part i just wish he would do it more often.

Besides the PL is littered with Big name signings who failed at their clubs, the name Collymore looms large when i say this for both Villa & Pool fans (and which MON experienced himself at leicester with Stanley), big names equal big egos. Villa have taken stabs at the big spending approach over the years be it, Milosevic, Collymore,JPA etc., now its time for MONs approach.

Neil3030

A few big-name signings (or even attempts thereof) in crucial areas won't necessarily derail MON's committment to developing young British talent. If we sign a cultured midfielder and a proven goalscorer it will boost the team's performance, while also setting the bar for the current crop of players at the club. I don't think anyone wants to go down the Chelsea styled route of cash slinging (not that we actually could), or turn into a Crystal Palace styled feeder club. I think a balance of the two strategies is the best approach.

~Rebel~

Neil3030 wrote: »

A few big-name signings (or even attempts thereof) in crucial areas won't necessarily derail MON's committment to developing young British talent. If we sign a cultured midfielder and a proven goalscorer it will boost the team's performance, while also setting the bar for the current crop of players at the club. I don't think anyone wants to go down the Chelsea styled route of cash slinging (not that we actually could), or turn into a Crystal Palace styled feeder club. I think a balance of the two strategies is the best approach.

+1 thats more what i was getting at. As ye've said yerselves, seeing Barry potentially leave will be a bit disenchanting for the players who have joined like Ashly Young. Seeing some ambition from the club with a bid for Van Der Vaart might cause the all important mental swing to think of Villa as a viable alternative even if the big clubs are also interested, and make a difference in keeping the likes of young if they see targets like this, even if you dont get him.

Neil3030

+1 thats more what i was getting at. As ye've said yerselves, seeing Barry potentially leave will be a bit disenchanting for the players who have joined like Ashly Young. Seeing some ambition from the club with a bid for Van Der Vaart might cause the all important mental swing to think of Villa as a viable alternative even if the big clubs are also interested, and make a difference in keeping the likes of young if they see targets like this, even if you dont get him.

Very true. I would be concerned though, as I feel MON is, that too many rejected bids or too much rejection from big named players could only further the perception of mediocrity...

invincibleirish

Neil3030 wrote: »

A few big-name signings (or even attempts thereof) in crucial areas won't necessarily derail MON's committment to developing young British talent. If we sign a cultured midfielder and a proven goalscorer it will boost the team's performance, while also setting the bar for the current crop of players at the club. I don't think anyone wants to go down the Chelsea styled route of cash slinging (not that we actually could), or turn into a Crystal Palace styled feeder club. I think a balance of the two strategies is the best approach.

I dont mind if MON does go for a big name signing, id love to see a modric type signing for instance, and i believe if the opportunity present itself Villa would sign such a player, but i guess it would be on Villas terms. I'd love to see Ronaldinho, but 200k a week? thats unsustainable.

~Rebel~

Ronaldinho obviously will be rediculous money for any none tip top team, but Mordic should have been a serious Villa target. I doubt his wages would need to be gigantic, he's still very young, and as usual the first contract would be a reasonable amount, with the second improved extension contract being the bigger one 2 years later, if he was doing well.

Dos Santos as well would have been absolutely ideal for Villa, just as he would have been for pool (and im pissed we didnt go for him). Extremely low price and wouldn't be demanding sky high wages either. Id take him over Milner in a heartbeat for instance.

Mr Alan

invincibleirish wrote: »

i believe if the opportunity present itself Villa would sign such a player

Emmmmmm..... were Villa in for Modric? Surely that was an opportunity there.