claiming maintenance from abroad

Trinity

Hi everyone,

new here.

my sons father moved abroad over a year ago. before he left he said the money would always be there.

well he hasnt given me a penny since last august (2005) and i am really struggling at the moment. I never hassled him, said i would wait til he had it etc but now he is ignoring my messages etc so i have gone the legal route.

it is extreme but i do feel he has a legal obligation to contribute to the upbringing of our son (if not a moral obligation). Hes going back to school in september and it is just sooo expensive never mind the general daily upbringing of him, food, clothes, bills etc.

I have been told its a slow process. Anyone had any experience of this?

Thanks

brown*eyed*girl

Hi Trinity,

Fellow single parent here and I get zero at the moment too but not going to persue it (long story) but I read a lot on www.rollercoaster.ie website. There is lots of info on the single parenting section. You could also try www.solo.ie. It is so expensive this time of year isn't it. You'd nearly need a credit union loan to get them back to school. Best of luck.

Trinity

Hey

thanks for the reply! He used to throw me some money voluntarily when he lived here thats why we didnt have a court order

it wasnt much but i guess every little helps and i was grateful for it!

You would need a loan alright and hes only 6 god forbid when he goes into secondary!

I've always gotten loans to get me out of a tight spot but i have maxed everything out and they wont give me anymore!

thats the only reason i am bothering going this route otherwise i wouldnt bother. its a sad sad day when you have to force them to help feed and clothe their children isnt it....:mad:

brown*eyed*girl

Trinity1 wrote:

Hey

thanks for the reply! He used to throw me some money voluntarily when he lived here thats why we didnt have a court order

it wasnt much but i guess every little helps and i was grateful for it!

You would need a loan alright and hes only 6 god forbid when he goes into secondary!

I've always gotten loans to get me out of a tight spot but i have maxed everything out and they wont give me anymore!

thats the only reason i am bothering going this route otherwise i wouldnt bother. its a sad sad day when you have to force them to help feed and clothe their children isnt it....:mad:

Been there done that with the loans, thankfully at long last I'm somewhat financially secure but its been a long road and lots of sacrifices. If you're on lower income check if you're entitled to FIS or you could also be entitled to some of your One Parent Family Allowance. Check out the site www.welfare.ie and you might be entitled to something. The rates went up in June for both FIS and OPFA. I'm over the limit for One Parent Family Allowance but might get some FIS as I have two kids and a mortgage. Think I might get €20 a week if I'm lucky. FIS is also available to couples on lower income and is a great stepping stone until you can get onto a higher income.

Also afaik you can get free legal aid. Check out your local citizens advice bureau or health board as you may be entitled to it. Again I wasn't entitled to it but its worth a try. I was going to go down the court route (wont go into my story way too long) and to see the solicitor is was €60 and before she would send out the letter / summons ?? she wanted €400 or 500. You will need a current address for your son's Dad. I'm not great on all this as I've never properly pursued it but the guys on rollercoaster are brilliant.

As for secondary school - thankfully my daughter who's going into 2nd year get her books on the rental scheme. Last year it cost €60 and this year €20. This is a great help but its all the add on stuff like arts and crafts, school bag, shoes, uniform that add up.

Well I've rambled on but PM me if you want any more advice or info. If I can help you I will.

Nevyn

Have you not looked at the back to school alloances to see if you qualify ?
If the Dad of your child is in the EU I am sure there has to be some way of tracking him down but you will most likely need a solicitor.
I would suggest calling or calling into your local Citizens Advice Bureau may be a good place to start.

Trinity

awh thanks guys the advice is great.

hes in the EU alright and the central authority for recovering maintenance (aegis of dept of justice) has sent out the forms, all i have to do is fill them in and they will hunt him down lol

i dont actually qualify for the back to school. i am working but had to cut down my hours to part time cos the creche was working out too expensive for after school.

i do get other benefits though so i am actually making more money by working less hours! Dont like to scrounge of the government but working fulltime i couldnt afford to eat and was paying 250 a week in rent and 125 on his creche and i only earned 350 per week and was entitled to nothing!!!

go figure huh

frobisher

It's a very tricky situation. I'm in the exact same boat. My child's mother moved abroad and hasn't paid a penny in over a year and has now offered €130 a month :eek: The price of renting his room alone is several times that. I didn't want to go the legal route but the money doesn't appear out of thin air so I might have to do it.

I'd be very interested in sharing our expereinces as we go through this thread, we could possibly be able to give each other advice as we go?

Nevyn

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/S/0141/S.0141.199411160004.html

Section 15 deals with the case of an Irish claimant who wishes to recover maintenance from a person residing in a designated jurisdiction. It provides that such a claimant may give evidence on sworn deposition before the District Court as to the facts of the claim. The [857] court may then certify that the claim sets out facts from which it may be determined that the respondent owes a duty to maintain the claimant.

The object of this provision is to ensure that the most convincing evidence is given on behalf of the Irish claimant to the foreign court or tribunal. If a maintenance order has already been made in Ireland in favour of the claimant, the registrar or clerk of the court will give the claimant a copy of the order and a certificate of other particulars relating to it. A similar provision is not included in Part II of the Bill because it is already covered by section 12 of the 1988 Act. The type of evidence provided for in this section should be of great assistance to Irish claimants in pursuing their applications before foreign courts.

Section 18 empowers the High Court to grant provisional, including protective, measures upon the application of the central authority arising from a request for the recovery of maintenance under Part III. The 1988 Act contains similar provisions which would apply to applications under Part II. Such measures could include an injunction to restrain a defendant from disposing of goods or from removing them out of the jurisdiction with the object of defeating any future maintenance order that might be made.

Part IV of the Bill applies to both reciprocating and designated jurisdictions. Section 20 empowers the central authority to obtain information about a defendant's whereabouts or his or her assets. The Rome Convention imposes this obligation on central authorities.

IT seems that you have to have court ordered maintenace order to pursue a parent who lives out side of the country.

http://www.welfare.ie/foi/liabmainfam.html

frobisher if you have currently sole custody of your child, have you applied for child benifit and single parents allownaces and there may be help advailible for your rent as well.

Trinity

I'd be more than happy to keep you updated! It took several phone calls before i was put onto the right place but they were very helpful and sent the forms out immediately.

i just have to fill them in and send them back enclosing the childs birth cert.

i didnt want to go this road (legal) either but its looking like i have no other choice he doesnt seem to have any intention of paying me. I let it slide for a year, how long does it take to get a job?

There are other issues and he may feel its out of bitterness but its not. I can do no more than i have been doing i need some help and its his responsibility too. He always gave me 50 per week which i thought was fair, i never questioned it. But a friend of mine felt i should be quite insulted, as he put it - i spend more feeding my dog each week!

He promised to resume payment in april. Then he came over end of may, promised to start payments then. He even took my bank accoiunt details but now he wont answer any of my messages. It was our sons 6th Birthday in June and he told my son when he was over here (in May) to watch the post and that he would send his pressie over in the mail.

2 months later my baby is still watching the post, it never arrived. my son text him a couple of weeks ago wondering when his present would arrive and he never replied.

It boggles the mind how people can hurt their own children and just walk away. I could never hurt my son.

If you dont mind me saying it is less heard of for a mother to walk away from her child/children.


edited to add just seen other post - i dont have a court order in ireland but the dept of justice said that was not a problem. If he refuses voluntarily to main his dependant then he will be taken to court in the country he is in and i do not have to attend. I think perhaps it is probably quicker and more efficient IF you already have a court ordered maintenance certificate but i do believe you dont need one.

brown*eyed*girl

Trinity that is so sad. You're poor son. To cut a long story short the main reason I'm not pursueing my ex is because in the two years we split up he has let us down both on access and maintenace sooooooooo many times its unreal. I've let him have access without taking a penny from him as he was out on disability yet I'd see him out drinking - actually he was so drunk he didn't remember seeing me. I could go on and on about it but basically I just said I want it regular i.e. maintenace and access or else you can bring me to court (this was about the 20th chance) but guess he chose to just let it be. He often went 2 months without seeing his son and then expect to have him for the weekend. I'm still worrying that I'm making the wrong decision but if he can let his son down so many times in the last two years it would've gotten worse when he is older and can be hurt like your son. My son hasn't seen his Dad since March. If he did pursue me properly and brought me to court I would be willing to be very reasonable. It is so frustrating when you do 99% of the rearing and financially look after your child and then the other parent comes along when it suits them. Hey sorry I'm rambling but you're story hit a nerve.

Trinity

Hey

I'm sorry to hear that about your son too, isnt it heartbreaking. I'm glad you shared that with me as i dont know anyone else in the same boat.

when he came and visited this may he hadnt seen our son in TWO YEARS! He would come visit and say he would be over the following week and disappear for 6 months. Two years was the longest.

My son adores him, i dont know why. i could probably count the number of times he has met him. Isnt it awful when they are sitting looking out the window waiting on daddy and he never shows. My sons dad has done that more times than he has seen him. He'd say i will be over on wednesday and he wouldnt show and wouldnt answer our calls or texts for months.

Hes not a drinker, had a good job, from a very respectable family etc.

I never wanted to say he couldnt see our son cos everytime he would say i swear it will be regular i would think this time hes telling the truth but.

Hes living abroad since april of last year. He contacted us adn sent some photos via email. I almost died when the photos he sent were of him playing on the beach with two kids. Turns out his girlfriend has two and he lives with them, they actually moved abroad together. It was a shock to me but what hurt more was sending those pics to a 5 year old who naturally wanted to know who they were. guess that was His way of telling us.

sorry i'm the one who is rambling!!

brown*eyed*girl

Trinity1 wrote:

Hey

I'm sorry to hear that about your son too, isnt it heartbreaking. I'm glad you shared that with me as i dont know anyone else in the same boat.

when he came and visited this may he hadnt seen our son in TWO YEARS! He would come visit and say he would be over the following week and disappear for 6 months. Two years was the longest.

My son adores him, i dont know why. i could probably count the number of times he has met him. Isnt it awful when they are sitting looking out the window waiting on daddy and he never shows. My sons dad has done that more times than he has seen him. He'd say i will be over on wednesday and he wouldnt show and wouldnt answer our calls or texts for months.

Hes not a drinker, had a good job, from a very respectable family etc.

I never wanted to say he couldnt see our son cos everytime he would say i swear it will be regular i would think this time hes telling the truth but.

Hes living abroad since april of last year. He contacted us adn sent some photos via email. I almost died when the photos he sent were of him playing on the beach with two kids. Turns out his girlfriend has two and he lives with them, they actually moved abroad together. It was a shock to me but what hurt more was sending those pics to a 5 year old who naturally wanted to know who they were. guess that was His way of telling us.

sorry i'm the one who is rambling!!

Hey I will send you a pm tomorrow as I can only log on in work at the moment and I'm going home now.

But this line struck a cord with me

"I never wanted to say he couldnt see our son cos everytime he would say i swear it will be regular i would think this time hes telling the truth but."

I've been there lots and lots of times and its like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. I never knew my Dad and my Mam reared me on her own. I know someone who had a "irregular" Dad and was let down and that person told me they'd prefer no Dad at all than all the let downs. Thats why I made the decision that before my son gets too old I want it sorted to regular or else nothing at all. Sorry this is a bit rambled as I'm rushing out the door for 5:30. I will pm you tomorrow.

frobisher

Trinity1 wrote:

I'd be more than happy to keep you updated! It took several phone calls before i was put onto the right place but they were very helpful and sent the forms out immediately.

2 months later my baby is still watching the post, it never arrived. my son text him a couple of weeks ago wondering when his present would arrive and he never replied.

It boggles the mind how people can hurt their own children and just walk away. I could never hurt my son.

If you dont mind me saying it is less heard of for a mother to walk away from her child/children..

Great so, hopefully we can learn from each others experiences. I guess even having someone in the same boat to share them with is even a good thing.

I'm really sorry to hear your son had to go through that. I don't want to tell you what to do or sound like I have any answers but I think you should defintiely take something like that in the most serious terms possible. I grew up without my father and I know that it's things like that that make a very big difference. Make sure your son knows that it's not his fault that this is happening but be careful not villify his father either. Kids can quietly assume far more responsibilty for things we wouldn't even think of and as a result their self esteem can become a little tender. That said, they are far more resilient than us adults and once they know they are loved and cared for they can deal with incredible situations. I'd consider writing a letter to your ex (letters carry far more weight than emails or the phone) that is about nothing other than him know how bad doing that was. Don't get angry, it won't help, but make him feel the guilt he deserves for it. Then maybe next time your son won't have to go through that.

I know what you mean by how it's mind boggling that people can hurt their own children. My theory is that these people are actually hurt themselves and are all over the place inside. But then I guess sometimes people are just plain old selfsh too.

You're right that it is odd for a woman to leave her son but every situation is different. He is 13 and we get on extremely well. She wanted to move back to her home country and agreed to let him stay here. At the last moment she changed her mind. If you think it would be difficult to be faced with your partner wanting to take your child from you imagine how it is to also know that your countries legal system is completely against you and there's nothing you can do about. That's what a lot of people in my situation face just because they're men. It's profoundly difficult. In the end it worked out, but only because I played the situation very delicately and swallowed my anger. When he was going to live with her we agreed terms for my maintenance but now she is refusing to give the same to me. I'm still hoping to avoid the legal route for the sake of my son. Fingers crossed!!

Trinity

Sorry to hear about your situation. 13 is a very tender age as well.

for 6 years i have always told my son, daddy loves you and misses you and he would be with you if he could. I never said a bad word about him until the birthday incident.

all said was daddy loves you but some people just find it hard to keep promises. because they get busy or they forget. i told him it was nothing to do with him that he was a great son and a good boy and that it was his daddys problem not his. It killed me to tell him but i felt i had no choice. at least if he doesnt expect anything from his father, he cant be disappointed or hurt and i just want his disappointment to stop.

i have spoken calmly to his father about the impact this is having on our son, and how hurt the child was by his actions, he always say the same thing 'he'll be fine'. this is one man with serious issues. i did mail him recently as i didnt have his address but he never replied.

my son knows i love him madly, would never let him down and would never leave him. I only hope thats enough.

shoegirl

Its worth pursuing in principle, however the court can only order that your ex [ays up, they cannot actually force him to pay it. It could be slow, but worth pursuing so good luck. I have one acquaintance whose ex-husband "disappears" every time they find out even roughly where he is living or working and that is in Ireland, so she's had no luck getting a single penny out of him to support his children, even with all the court orders in the world. They can stop it out of his wages, but if he keeps changing job, or as many fellas do, deliberately go on the dole to evade having to pay up, its really impossible to track.

As for elsewhere, another friend basically didn't bother after her boyfriend and father of child absconded back to the UK before his son was even born. He had such an unsteady income anyway it was unlikely he'd be able to pay up. However if he is in the UK, you might be in luck, I think the courts would probably apply provisions like those of the Child Support Agency (see http://www.csa.gov.uk/new/index.asp).

If he's in the UK this might be relevant:

"If one of the parents lives abroad and does not fall into one of the categories above then the parent with care can apply to the courts for child maintenance. If the parent with care needs help in collecting the money awarded under the court order for maintenance they can contact the Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders section at the Official Solicitor & Public Trustee. Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders - or REMO - is the process by which maintenance orders made by UK courts on behalf of UK residents can be registered and enforced by the courts or other authorities in other countries.

This is a reciprocal arrangement which means that foreign maintenance orders in favour of individuals abroad can be registered and enforced by UK courts against UK residents.

More information on REMO - http://www.csa.gov.uk/new/contact/remo.asp"

It certainly would look as if technically it would be a possibility if the father resides in the EU in a REMO juristriction. A solicitor would help - and don't forget to apply for legal aid.

I personally think there should be a flat rate "absent parent tax" which was automatically charged to the absent parent. In the UK if you don't pay your council tax but live elsewhere you're still liable so I don't see why emigrating should get anybody off the hook for supporting their own children. Its not fair on the child, its mother and everybody who has to either pay taxes or has to arrange all these complicated systems for making these people pay up.

Trinity

Thanks for all that info shoegirl, i'm sure it will come in very handy.

was willing to let it slide, told myself he wasnt worth chasing but last week was sat at the kitchen table looking at all the bills and all the things coming up to pay for and wondering where i am going to get this money from and i thought of him. Living it up in spain and there are days here when i have to borrow money for basics like bread and milk.

it makes the blood boil and more to the point i am doing it on principal. i'll prob lose my other benefits but i'd would rather be getting it off him than the state. I've always worked and paid my taxes but HE should do the RIGHT thing by his son.

Its a pity they have to be forced.

sullivk

I recieve the OPFP of 180 euro each week and my sons father gives me 50 euro. I cant work because im in college full-time.
I have never told the social welfare that my ex is giving me money because they would deduct it from my payments (dishonest I know, but I really need every penny I can get!).
Anyway, my ex earns about 500 a week.
My son is due to start playschool in 2 weeks and I know its going to be a real struggle. Ive asked his father if he could give me an extra 25 a week to pay half the playschool costs but he says he hasnt got the money (he pays 500 euro a month for his brand new '06 car!! ):mad:

I have threatened him with court before but then he threatens me saying he'll tell the social welfare ive been lying to them and then ill be in BIG trouble...
He has no proof that he has been giving me money as hes always given it straight into my hand.
We get on well, I always encourage him to see his son but he'll only take him on a saturday night because hes sooooooooo busy (he finishes work at 2 everyday and lives a 5 minute drive away!)

Money is so tight, should I bring him to court?

Nevyn

sullivk you should still be eligible for FIS
http://www.oasis.gov.ie/employment/pay_and_employment/family_income_supplement.html
Go talk to someone in your local welfare office or http://www.comhairle.ie/citizens/ for your local office or you can ring them an enquire.

Trinity

Hey

sorry i just saw this now.

as far as i know - legal aid told me. If he is giving you money into the hand without a court order it is classed as a gift.

If you bring him to court, you will most likely have to tell social if they dont find out themselves.

Your book will be deducted once you start receiving maintence so why dont you go see citizens advice and find out who to talk to.

financially you may not be any better off cos what he gives you they may take away. I think they disregard the first 25 euro.

best to check these things thoroughtly first though!!

Gillo

It's only when you read a thread like this that you realise that there's a lot of w@&kers out there.

Having been on and off with my daughters mother since she was born, I've always given her maintaince, ok some months it's been hard but I've always made sure that she gets the money.

Unfortunatly, I can't give any advice here, but definetly think you should keep the pressure up. Good luck with it.

hshortt

"Any man can be a father, but it takes someone special to be a daddy."

I am ashamed that this man will not face his responsibilities. I was an unmarried father and I was the one to do the chasing to get the court orders. Thankfully, all worked out well and I see my daughter very regularly and all is above board with her mom too.

With the unmarried fathers association fighting for fathers to have greater access, I can see the battle the face in the posts above. Any man that can walk away from his child deserves to be castrated. There is simply no excuse.

Good luck,
Howard

Trinity

I said i'd give an update and here it is!

Having sent off the forms in August to Dept of Justice I have just this morning received a letter from them saying the SPanish Authorities cannot persue it without his full address and also proof that he is the father of the child or at least proof that he believed that he was the father of the child.

so i am back to square one.

Looks like hes going to get away with it

dame

Hi Trinity1, I've just read this thread and I really feel for all the single parents struggling here. I don't know if you know his family at all but if you do would they be willing to give you his address? I'm sure they know that you and your son exist and have met your son in the past when you were still together. Perhaps a visit to his parents or a quick note, just to remind them that their garndson still exists and that his father has not been paying any maintenance for him. They've probably been wondering how their grand-child is and possibly (hopefully) don't approve of the fact that their son has cut contact and refused maintenance. Maybe they would tell you his address at least, even if they don't want to get involved and speak to their son about the matter. Maybe guilt would get to them and you could convince them to give you his address and assure them that you will never reveal how you got his address. Failing that, do you know any of his siblings or close friends? I know you don't want to go bothering people or turning up with a sob story but if getting his address is what's necessary then maybe you could think of a way to get it?

Trinity

Thanks Dame.

unfortunately it is out of the question. they have no interest in the child either and when he first moved abroad 2 years ago they wouldnt give me his phone number just said they would pass on a message.

God knows what he told them about me probably a load of crap. They are a strange bunch mind you. He didnt lick it off a stone.

But thanks for reply!

Nevyn

If you were not married to him when the birht of your child was registered and if his name is on the birth cert then he would have had to go to the register of births and deaths aclaim the child as his and sign the register to have his name on the birth certs and that certainly is saying he tought the child is his.

Trinity

No he is not on the birth cert. The only things i have are photos of him holding him at the christening a a couple of recent ones.

My son is the spitting image of his Dad.

Anyway i have decided to leave it. He is out of our lives now, we heard nothing over the xmas, not even a text for my son.

I have a new partner now and my son calls him Dad. My son has what he wants to an extent and thats a man in his life he loves and can depend on who is always there for him.

thats something his own dad could/would never do so best leave well enough alone.

Carrigart Exile

Trinity1 wrote:

Hi everyone,

new here.

my sons father moved abroad over a year ago. before he left he said the money would always be there.

well he hasnt given me a penny since last august (2005) and i am really struggling at the moment. I never hassled him, said i would wait til he had it etc but now he is ignoring my messages etc so i have gone the legal route.

it is extreme but i do feel he has a legal obligation to contribute to the upbringing of our son (if not a moral obligation). Hes going back to school in september and it is just sooo expensive never mind the general daily upbringing of him, food, clothes, bills etc.

I have been told its a slow process. Anyone had any experience of this?

Thanks

Just one 'non legal' thought but does he have family in Ireland. If his parents and your child's grandparents knew he had abandoned his child they may be able to bring pressure that no lawyer could (and a lot cheaper).

Oops just read Dame's post, ignore this one.

The Corinthian

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here if I may because it touches upon a wider topic with regard to parenthood. Apologies for kind of hijacking the thread and if the Mods wish to spin this off into another thread, please feel free.

While we don't have a full picture of the OP's situation and their past with the father of the child, it does appear that the father was an involuntary one. Let me put it this way: He's not on the birth cert. By extension it may well be assumed that he has not sought (and/or the OP has given) joint guardianship. It would appear that once the OP was pregnant, the father was presented a fait accompli - he was going to become a father and he was going to have to financially (assist) support the child because the mother had not only chosen to bring the child to term, but also to keep it. The best he can do is grin and bare it and make the best of a situation not of his choosing.

Of course, the above conclusions may be wrong, but I'm really only basing it upon the information in this thread. Additionally I do sympathise with the financial and social situation of the mother now. However, my point actually goes beyond this and asks whether it is right for someone to choose a lifestyle for themselves and then expect another to be responsible for it too, even though they never had a choice in the matter themselves.

Ultimately, it does seem bizarre that one party ultimately has sole rights to choose the future of both parties (all three if you include the child) while still expecting responsibility to be shared. I don't think anyone can be forced to be a parent - either they are ready and willing to do so or they won't be - I don't think anyone will argue with that, but is it just either that someone is forced to pay for another's lifestyle choice?

If it was not his choice to be a father, if ultimately the mother chose to keep and raise the child, then - outside of a traditional assumption that "a father should be responsible no matter what", which is probably from the same school as "a mother should bring a child to term no matter what" - the buck, like the choice, stops with her.

Thoughts?

Carrigart Exile

The Corinthian wrote:

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here if I may because it touches upon a wider topic with regard to parenthood. Apologies for kind of hijacking the thread and if the Mods wish to spin this off into another thread, please feel free.

While we don't have a full picture of the OP's situation and their past with the father of the child, it does appear that the father was an involuntary one. Let me put it this way: He's not on the birth cert. By extension it may well be assumed that he has not sought (and/or the OP has given) joint guardianship. It would appear that once the OP was pregnant, the father was presented a fait accompli - he was going to become a father and he was going to have to financially (assist) support the child because the mother had not only chosen to bring the child to term, but also to keep it. The best he can do is grin and bare it and make the best of a situation not of his choosing.

Of course, the above conclusions may be wrong, but I'm really only basing it upon the information in this thread. Additionally I do sympathise with the financial and social situation of the mother now. However, my point actually goes beyond this and asks whether it is right for someone to choose a lifestyle for themselves and then expect another to be responsible for it too, even though they never had a choice in the matter themselves.

Ultimately, it does seem bizarre that one party ultimately has sole rights to choose the future of both parties (all three if you include the child) while still expecting responsibility to be shared. I don't think anyone can be forced to be a parent - either they are ready and willing to do so or they won't be - I don't think anyone will argue with that, but is it just either that someone is forced to pay for another's lifestyle choice?

If it was not his choice to be a father, if ultimately the mother chose to keep and raise the child, then - outside of a traditional assumption that "a father should be responsible no matter what", which is probably from the same school as "a mother should bring a child to term no matter what" - the buck, like the choice, stops with her.

Thoughts?

Whilst not knowing if this is indeed the OP's situation you do raise a fascinating point regarding equality of treatment. A man has absolutely no say over whether his child can be aborted and absolutely no say over whether he becomes a father.

The Corinthian

Carrigart Exile wrote:

Whilst not knowing if this is indeed the OP's situation you do raise a fascinating point regarding equality of treatment. A man has absolutely no say over whether his child can be aborted and absolutely no say over whether he becomes a father.

Actually it goes beyond that. If a parent chooses that they want to have and keep a child, this is naturally a huge life changing decision. However, as things legally stand it is one that can be made unilaterally by one parent and then in part imposed on the other – even if it is only in the shape of maintenance payments.

The father in the OP’s case appears not to be a willing partner in the mother’s choice to have and keep a child, and even if one accepts that she should be able to unilaterally do so, is it then just that he should then have his own life changed because someone else wanted to change hers?

I’m not suggesting that a mother should terminate her pregnancy or even put the child up for adoption if the father wants nothing to do with it, but it is a little morally questionable that she should choose to keep her child and then look for the father to in part fund something that he got no say in.

I would be curious to know how single mothers in this situation justify it outside of financial need (as this alone is hardly a justification for indenturing another human being).

dame

I'm not a single mother but I would say that the father has had a say in it - it takes two after all and surely if you do the business then you accept that there is always a slight risk of pregnancy (birth control measures are not 100% effective). Knowing the risk of something and doing it anyway means that you should be prepared to deal with the consequences, whether you like the consequences or not.

In the OP's case the father was around and acting as a father for at least a while of his child's life. I personally think that in that case he has acknowled that he is a father and should not now be allowed to opt out completely, just because it doesn't suit him any more. You can leave a partner or wife but you should never leave a child. I'm trying to explain this but doing it badly. Even if you are apart from your child you should never leave your child thinking that you don't care. It would be different if you disappeared before the child was even born and didn't know the child existed but I think that once your child has gotten to know you as "daddy" then you have an obligation to show that child some love, even if it is just a birthday card every year. It will ultimately be damaging for the child to grow up believeing that their father could discard them so easily and go off and live with and support another woman's kids (which aren't his own), as the OP's ex has done.

There are also single mothers out there who don't want to have anything to do with their ex, not even maintenance payments.