Pork / Ham

Deer

Hi - I just have a question about something that has been bothering me. My daughters friend was at the house when I was serving dinner the other day - turkey and ham. I asked her to ask her dad if she could have dinner with us and when she returned I had made up a little plate for her with the turkey on the ham and gravy on top etc. She told me that she wasn't allowed eat ham or pork because she was Muslim so I panicked and threw the whole plate out because of the fact that the ham had been on it and gave her a whole new plate of food. Was that right?

Sorry now but if she's going to be coming up to me for dinner in future as kids tend to I need to know if I can or can't serve her food when I've been cooking with pork etc... I suppose what I'm trying to ask really is there a contamination issue going on?

Wibbs

AFAIR All products of the pig are harram or bad and contamination is part of it. There was an debate in both the Muslim and Jewish community in the UK over processed chicken, as it was found to contain pig DNA and pig fat to make the chcken look and taste better(God know how, but there you go). There was a big stink over that for a while. I also remember when some Muslim and Jewish leaders were trying to sort out the problems with administering insulin to diabetics of both faiths as some insulin products are derived from pigs. Apparently it was sorted out. A good example of interfaith cooperation as well. Over the years I've known a few lapsed Muslims, but the one thing they never did was touch pork.


I do remember a devout Muslim bloke I knew who although he didn't risk it, reckoned that modern processed Bacon fries were probably ok though as there was absolutely no pig in them at all. Typical Once in his house he plonked down in front of me a bottle of alcohol free beer and a packet of the above to make me feel welcome. Which was nice.

Deer

Thanks for that Wibbs. I'm glad I gave her a new plate altogether now. I don't want to be inadvertently offending her parents by giving her something that she's not supposed to have. Sure god love her though - it was her first time ever tasting irish mashed potatoes - she grew up on rice and she loved them!!

Medina

Hi Deer,
My family are Catholic and my fiancee is is Muslim.

He won't eat anything thats touched pork either, nor even meat that was cooked in the same pot and hasn't been washed since.

At the family barbecue this summer my dad bought a separate disposable charcoal barbecue for the spare ribs and used separate tongs so that nothing pork touched the chicken or other stuff.

Sounds like you were the most hospitable host

p.s. also watch out for sauces with alcohol in the ingredients like white wine sauce, teriyaki sauce etc..or chocolates with rum etc. These are all out too.
Basically check the labels of everything.

T-1111111111111

Medina wrote:

Hi Deer,
My family are Catholic and my fiancee is is Muslim.

He won't eat anything thats touched pork either, nor even meat that was cooked in the same pot and hasn't been washed since.

At the family barbecue this summer my dad bought a separate disposable charcoal barbecue for the spare ribs and used separate tongs so that nothing pork touched the chicken or other stuff.

Sounds like you were the most hospitable host

p.s. also watch out for sauces with alcohol in the ingredients like white wine sauce, teriyaki sauce etc..or chocolates with rum etc. These are all out too.
Basically check the labels of everything.

Sounds a lot of "work", but in the end - it might pay off?

the_new_mr

Hard to beat the auld mashed potatoes... mmmmmmmm.... wouldn't mind some right now actually

You did the right thing Deer. I wish that all non-Muslims were as accomodating as you

Tha Gopher

Out of curiousirty why is pork considered such an absoloute no go? Id a mate who was Muslim (deceased now RIP). Raised in Ireland, we worked in a takeaway a few years ago. Like everyone else, he drank, chased birds, ate non halal meat, did everything all the lads did, I think his parents were religious but he never really mentioned it. But despite flouting the drink etc rules he absoloutely abhorred pig food. If we were in the back area cooking and someone ordered a buger with bacon thrown on top he would always get one of the other lads to throw the bacon on for him. So do alot of non religious Muslims think that this is simply a rule not to be broken no matter what? More important than all the other rules? Kind of like the way I am born Catholic, but because my parents were never hugely religious neither was I but at the same time theres things I wouldnt do like, I dunno, watching porn with the actresses dressed as nuns (it exists, sorry for such a low brow example but I couldnt think of any other rule I wouldnt flout ) . I generally dont support abortion either, though thats got feck all to do with the church thinking and more to do with the fact I think killing kids for financial or social reasons is just plain murder.

Medina- from what I read the alcohol ban is mostly to do with preventing what often happens when too much of it is drank i.e. promiscuity and violence/stupid behaviour. Is consumption of very minor amounts for medicinal or flavour enhancing reasons also barred, even if its a negligible amount?

Slightly related, can you be regarded as a good Muslim if you sell products that you yourself dont use because your reliigion bans them e.g. working in Burger King selling non halal meat, working in a nightclub or offy selling alcohol etc.

Deer

I know if i was told all my life that something was unclean it certainly would put me off eating it. I remember when I was in Dubai last March we were staying in an apartment block. My dad was cooking rashers or something like that and I remember being uncomfortable about the situation as obviously you know Dubai is a Muslim country. I just didn't feel it was right to be cooking something that smelled as strongly as bacon. I thought it might put the people in the neighbouring apartment off their food or something like that.

As for me being accomadating I suppose if a vegetarian came to my house I would do anything in my power also to make sure that not a scrap of meat or meat product crossed their lips!

Islam is something that fascinates me and I'm going to try and learn more about it. I wouldnt be into joining in but there is a certain beauty about the religion and a certain devotion that I find christianity is lacking. But that's just my own personal opinion.

the_new_mr

Tha Gopher wrote:

Out of curiousirty why is pork considered such an absoloute no go?

Well, actually it's not considered any worse to eat it than to drink alcohol or gambling or anything. Actually, I'd say that alcohol and gambling are worse. I know what you mean about some people breaking other rules but not breaking the no-pork rule. Don't know why personally. I guess you'd have to ask one of them I suppose

Deer wrote:

I know if i was told all my life that something was unclean it certainly would put me off eating it

Strictly speaking, there's no mention in the Quran of why we should not eat pork. It's very clear on the fact that we shouldn't but the reason is not given. There are some things that we follow and are given the reason for it and there are some thing that we are just supposed to say "We hear and we obey" in a kind of show of complete obedience to God.

Al-Ma'ida:3
"Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah. that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

Tha Gopher wrote:

from what I read the alcohol ban is mostly to do with preventing what often happens when too much of it is drank i.e. promiscuity and violence/stupid behaviour. Is consumption of very minor amounts for medicinal or flavour enhancing reasons also barred, even if its a negligible amount?

I think that it's also because it's damaging to the human body as well as the inevitable detrimental effect it has on society as whole.

Very small amounts is certainly allowed for medicinal reasons. As for flavouring, I understand there is a difference of opinion amongst some scholars on this. Personally speaking, I'd rather not have anything that had any alcohol in it.

Tha Gopher wrote:

Slightly related, can you be regarded as a good Muslim if you sell products that you yourself dont use because your reliigion bans them e.g. working in Burger King selling non halal meat, working in a nightclub or offy selling alcohol etc.

If you're completely and utterly stuck, I believe it's permissable to sell tobacco, alcohol, work in a bar or whatever if you just can't find any other kind of work but you should leave that job as soon as you get the opportunity of another one doing something else which is permissable.

As for selling non-halal meat, I'm not 100% and since I'm not a scholar my opinion doesn't stand for much but I don't think there's any harm in selling non-halal meat since you're not eating the meat itself. This is different to selling alcohol where you are effectively taking part in the act of getting someone drunk/damaging their body etc.

Also, the meat of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) is okay for Muslims to eat (apart from pork obviously). Still, I think this situation might change if there is a halal butcher in town any maybe also depends on the method of slaughter (as in most places to electrucution now instead). Must remember to find out more about that some time. Thanks for reminding me.

Have to say Deer, you're a very considerate person worrying about the smell and stuff. If everyone was as considerate as you then the world would be a much better place

Anyway, glad you'd like to find out a bit about Islam. Here's a good place to start.
http://islamonline.net/English/Discover_Islam/index.shtml

On the point of devotion, Islam literally means submission and a Muslim is someone who is submitting themselves to God.