muslim boyfriend

GreenDoor

If my sister started to date a muslim the family would have nothing to do with her anymore.

This is a clash of cultures more than anything else. Part of Muslim culture is to force others to become Muslims by brainwashing people or by force.

What I bet won't happen is the muslim boyfriend will become a christian!

Rev Hellfire

The simple fact is there will always be others who attempt to force their opinions on others, this is true of christian's just as much as any other beliefs.
It is unfortunate that the image of Islam has been hijacked by a more fundamentalist ideology, but that does not mean the majority share that view.

Caryatnid

C_Breeze wrote:

heres a crazy suggestion, how about he convertes from that delightful religion instead of you having to convert. And if children are gonna be raised in a roman ctaholic country they should be raised as catholics.

I don't agree with the last sentence, but I do agree with the first (albeit phrased distastefully).

Mantrouble - from reading your post, I got the impression that your religion is more important to you than your boyfriend's religion is to him. Therefore, I would imagine, that he may be more likely to compromise, particularly if his family aren't religious. As far as I am aware, both Islam and Catholism have the same basic 'rule' (not sure if that's the correct term) when it comes to raising your children - you can marry someone of another faith, but must raise the children as your religion.

So on face-value, surely the argument to raise the kids as Catholics instead of Muslims is equal. Have you spoken to your boyfriend about this? You may be pleasantly surprised, and find that a compromise/solution can be easily reached. Inter-faith marriages aren't that unusual, and if both people are willing, they can work.

Good luck.

Wibbs

de lioncourt wrote:

sorry i wasnt quite clear, what i meant by that statement was that people expect each and every muslim person to be religious and 'extremist'.... BUT muslims are PEOPLE! they might be of stronger beliefs but doesnt mean all are the same. just like all 10 of your fingers & thumbs are different from eachother, each indivisual is different from another, let them be muslims.

Agreed each persons situation is different regardless.

i was in india on vacation as a kid and came to know about a very sad fact that some women are burnt to death because of dowry, will it be fair to say that ‘Indians burn women because they don’t bring stuff from their homes when getting married’?

No it would not be fair to say that all Indians are wife burners. It would be equally unfair to say that this doesn't go on with a minority and not speak of it. A balance is needed. Same thing with "islamic" honour killings. It goes on, it's not Islamic at all and needs to be rooted out.

I’ve never heard a single case of discrimination or ‘wife beating’ in my entire life in KSA! Their government is according to Islamic laws therefore they take really quick and satisfying actions when it comes to women.

No discrimination? This is where we differ in opinion. SA has a sometimes appalling record when it comes to various human rights. Discrimination against women (even when taking the Islamic view of women which would differ in many ways from the wests). Even the right to education of women came after that of men(which is against Islam). Slightly more women graduate from University there yet less than 5% of women work. A woman can't even start a business in their own name, they can't drive a car, they can't vote or even be directly involved in politics, they can't travel or go out in public without a male chaperone(family or husband) or written permission of same. The segregation of the sexes is very strong. All the while the "religious" police make sure such conditions are upheld. Now they have made some progress of late and with hopefully more to come. Their own ID cards for a start as opposed to being listed anonymously on their husbands or fathers(though she still needs the permission of a male guardian to get one). "Quick and satisfying actions" indeed.
Now I'm not surprised you haven't heard of wife beating. Wife beating occurs everywhere regardless of faith or culture, but any culture where the women are as restricted or as invisble as in SA this abuse is far more likely to go unnoticed. Put it another way, in this more open society, how many wife beaters do you know presonally? Pretty few I'd warrant, but we know it goes on. It used to go on far more when women had less of a voice here.

the_new_mr

Yes, there is a lot of discrimination against women in Saudi Arabia. It sucks the way that women are oppressed in some countries and it's wrongfully done in the name of Islam. Hopefully, the progress that has been happening will continue and continue fast God willing.

Schuhart

de lioncourt wrote:

a good girl friend of mine was a muslim and she married a non-muslim guy.
infact, it is much more common these days for muslim women to marry a non-muslim guys than we can imagine.

I sure that women raised as Muslims do marry outside the faith, and I don't doubt, like in most things, the average practitioner of the faith is miles ahead of its religious establishment in dealing with the reality of life.

But I thought that a Muslim woman was specifically barred from marrying outside the faith. Does this mean that the women you refer have left the Islamic faith, or how is this reconciled?

The extract below from a post on Islamonline.net gives some background on this.

A Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman .... There is nothing wrong, from Islam's perspective, if a woman prays, fasts, and carries her religious rituals in front of her Muslim husband. This is simply because the Muslim must show respect to other faiths.

This situation is different when it comes to the Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man. Marriage would be considered invalid in Islam between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man. This would result in living in sin according to Islam since it is outside the sphere of halal (permissible) marriage.

Schuhart

Wibbs wrote:

Put it another way, in this more open society, how many wife beaters do you know presonally? Pretty few I'd warrant, but we know it goes on. It used to go on far more when women had less of a voice here.

I think you are right to stress that wife beating happens everywhere, and in secret. There’s no reason to demonise either men in general or any particular section of society for something that happens at every level in every society.

But, there has to be a but. That’s the old question of Islam establishing within marriage a power relationship that includes a husband chastising a wife.

Fine, so some sources say the wife should only be hit with a miswak or toothstick. What if hubby is buying his miswak from this guy? Can I mildly suggest people regarding a belt from one of them as symbolic are most likely people who don’t expect to be on the receiving end?

I’m not comfortable with the ready acceptance by some that because there’s a Hadith saying don’t give her a dig in the face where the neighbours will see it’s not an issue. If people really think marital violence so easy excused, and so no reason to query the power relationship it represents, all I can say is Goodbye Earl.

aman

UU wrote:

To be honest, I don't think a "moderate Muslim" really exists for very long in an inter-faith marriage especially when power, children, sex, dress, food, etc. become involved and two very different cultures finally clash.

I have been with my husband for 20 years & married to him for 18 - I know at least 5 Irish women married to Muslim men who have stayed Christian, some have Muslim children, some don't but they have all been happily married for from 6 years to over 25 years in two cases. As other posters have said generalisations are not much help to anyone & nobody on this thread knows the OP's partner except her. Compromise is definitely the key (as it is in most marriages regardless of religion).

MeditationMom

on this forum there is no 'the truth'

Love is Truth.

Love and Truth can overcome all that is not Love and Truth - like religions and ideologies, like nagging in-laws, like oppressive husbands or quarrelsome wives. Children are our teachers of Love andTruth.

How does that translate into day to day life of, for example, marrying a Muslim man if you are a western woman?

Study and practice Islam with all your heart and mind for at least five years and talk to as many Muslim women and non-Muslim women about their marriages, before you commit to a marriage of this level of challenge or your future children to a religion you don't understand. This you do out of love, not for the man or his family, but out of love for your future children. Parents need to provide a home of union, love and peace for their children, not one of discord and fighting. Mother and Father both need to be held in equal and high esteem.

Of course this could also be reversed, with the Muslim man studying intensely whatever religion you belong to. Whoever is the wiser one of the two parents will teach love, peace and kindness above all misguided religious concepts to the children, in secret. (Or you can both give up your religions and become Buddhists, Sufis, Jews, Taoists...;) )

Above all, do not underestimate your own ignorance about the level of difficulty you sign up for if marrying, leave alone marrying someone who is, or may become strong and passionate about their religion, no matter which one, but especially, if it is other than yours. Also remember you are not just marrying a man or women, but their families and cultures.

Even Atheists become zealous about "NOT" having a religion when their children start asking the questions: "Who made everything? Is there a God?What does God look like? Where do we go when we die? Where do I come from? Why are there wars? What happens if you kill someone by accident or on purpose? etc, etc." When your children ask these questions they are very serious about having a sincere conversation with you, and they would be well served if you had thought about these things and, preferably somewhat agreed with your answers as parents. These questions can break a marriage or relationship, so start asking them now. With your boyfriend you may be amazed at your level of agreement, or disagreement.
His wisdom, his ignorance or his stupidity, will help you decide. Don't ask yourself "Will I be happy or unhappy?" or "How much of this discrepancy in our upbringing can I handle?" but what will this marriage/home feel like and be like, for my children? When you start thinking as a parent you are starting to grow up enough to make a decision about marrying and who.

MeditationMom

about marrying, and whom to marry , sorry for my bad english-

IT Loser

T-1111111111111 wrote:

Why is that exactly?!
They should be raised as Muslims. Period.
Can I say that the pope should also become a Muslim?
Is that allowed to say?
I mean, if posts like the above one can be tolerated that I see no problems with my post and nobody else should.

And just because I'm curious - how do you define a roman catholic country?
Just because the majority are either cahtolics (or maybe not, maybe the majority are atheists, I don't have the stats) they you are free to say that?

BTW, the country law is not the catholic law at the same time, so this is simply not a catholic country. Another period.

I know a man from Mosul, a "Muslim" his name is Walid, he always laughs and makes fun of the fanatics, He returned to Mosul before GWII and told the people there that he had married an Irish woman and they had a family.


Their first question?

How are the children? NO

How many boys? NO

How many girls? NO

How many children? NO

How is your wife? NO


WHAT RELIGION ARE THE CHILDREN: YES.

He told them they are Christians., he was called all sorts of names, a Gafoor, etc.

IT Loser

the_new_mr wrote:

Yes, there is a lot of discrimination against women in Saudi Arabia. It sucks the way that women are oppressed in some countries and it's wrongfully done in the name of Islam. Hopefully, the progress that has been happening will continue and continue fast God willing.

Did you know that up to one fifth of the Saudi state is Roman Catholic?

That there are some 4-5 millin Christians there?

That there are 5 times as many Christians in Egypt as Muslims in Britain?

Islam tries to conceal this...but Christianity is the fastest growing religion in Egypt and Saudi!

the_new_mr

Hi IT Loser, I don't mean any offence but what are your sources for these statistics? I think you'll find that they are quite wrong.

Anyway, even though your numbers are incorrect, it doesn't really matter. Religion is not supposed to be a numbers game.

I fail to see the relevance of your last post to this thread by the way.

IT Loser

Flying wrote:

You think Quoting the Koran will make a difference, why is it Muslims are so hell bent on converting people to Islam, weither it be by force or other non-subtle means.

Why should a woman change her religion weither practising or Not.
Why should she change her life, her dress,be oppressed in a Christian Society by a Muslim(s) who are in the minority.

There is no such thing as a non practicing Muslim but in chrisitian a person has the choice to do so.

Muslims think it is fine to force there opinions and way of life down peoples throat, well its not and my advice to any woman is to steer clear for the sake of their own sanity and their Life.

"I am The Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me." (Exodus 20:2-3 RSV)

One of the Commandments [the 1st, in fact]...Muslims are hell bent on coversion because the female converts are the anvil from which the next generation of little Muslims will be hammered out.

Obviously, from a strictly religious viewpoint, anybody who directly disobeys the Word of God, instructed as it was unto Abraham {as Muslims keep telling you, they recognise Abraham} isn't worth a toss to any religion at all.


Conversion is a social tool. Those who convert are LOST forever, and plainly, in a religious sense, are bereft of conviction to begin with. If Abraham is an agent of Allah, and Abrahams instructions ignored, then the convert is, in the strict religious sense, useless to Islam.

Of course, conversion has nothing to do with religion anyways. It is about demographics.

IT Loser

the_new_mr wrote:

Hi IT Loser, I don't mean any offence but what are your sources for these statistics? I think you'll find that they are quite wrong.

Anyway, even though your numbers are incorrect, it doesn't really matter. Religion is not supposed to be a numbers game.

I fail to see the relevance of your last post to this thread by the way.

CIA, Roman Catholic Church, Orthodoxy of Greece, Kiev, Moscow

The Patriarch of Constantinople

The last Egyptian Census

etc etc etc

My point is as follows: people over here are fretting that we might be stepping on the toes of Islam...while Christian Churches burn in Cairo, and Christian nuns are stabbed in Constantinople.

So, whats your point?

IT Loser

the_new_mr wrote:

Hi IT Loser, I don't mean any offence but what are your sources for these statistics? I think you'll find that they are quite wrong.

Anyway, even though your numbers are incorrect, it doesn't really matter. Religion is not supposed to be a numbers game.

I fail to see the relevance of your last post to this thread by the way.

In saying that my Stats are wrong you are validating my point: Islam is terrified that it will lose the battle of Demographics. The repetitively bleated claim that islam is the "fastest growing" etc is used to weaken the resolve of Christian subjects everywhere.

The Muslims in Nigeria REFUSE a Census...because they KNOW that, for the first time, they are no longer in the majority.

Why do you dispute it: there are millions of Catholic filipinos in Saudi, who are forbidden to carry the Bible, and who have no Rights under the Wahhabi regime?

Do you dare challenge me on this? I would relish the opportunity to smash the fallacy.

stevenmu

IT Loser this thread is about the practicalities of marriage between Muslims and Christians, it's not about who's winning the numbers, and certainly not about dares, challenges or smashing fallacies. Please stick to the topic at hand.

IT Loser

Very well, I will.