Who was Jesus? On the Lighter side!

Medina

Scofflaw wrote:

I'm not suggesting that Jesus would have had to use such humour - aside from anything else, He was the message, rather than a mere human passing the message on. There's not that much point in basing your preaching style on Jesus', because you aren't Jesus. What He did not have to "stoop to" others may have to.

People may well find a sense of fulfillment, harmony, and love in religion - but not if they're put off the message by the messenger.

regards,
Scofflaw

Messengers should follow the example of the source of their message.
So in Christianity it would be Jesus. I think Jesus' lived by principles of love for fellow man, and respect for all. He was an exemplary example of kindness and tolerance.

If you don't think so I'd recommend you go to your parish priest and tell him he's doing it all wrong and a night at the international comedy club would be more productive.

Then let's see what happens to the poor guy

Scofflaw

Medina wrote:

Messengers should follow the example of the source of their message.
So in Christianity it would be Jesus. I think Jesus' lived by principles of love for fellow man, and respect for all. He was an exemplary example of kindness and tolerance.

If you don't think so I'd recommend you go to your parish priest and tell him he's doing it all wrong and a night at the international comedy club would be more productive.

Then let's see what happens to the poor guy

Well, you're annoyed at the moment, but I would still expect you to recognise a difference between making a couple of jokes (which any PP worth his salt is already doing) and "a night at the international comedy club". If you can't see that, I take it you're so annoyed that there's no point in actually discussing the question.

In the long run, I fear the laugh will be on you, although I appreciate your sincerity. Still, no matter, but I hope you're not putting anyone else off salvation through your outraged condemnation of Brians' rather harmless jokes.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Medina

Scofflaw wrote:

Well, you're annoyed at the moment, but I would still expect you to recognise a difference between making a couple of jokes (which any PP worth his salt is already doing) and "a night at the international comedy club". If you can't see that, I take it you're so annoyed that there's no point in actually discussing the question.

In the long run, I fear the laugh will be on you, although I appreciate your sincerity. Still, no matter, but I hope you're not putting anyone else off salvation through your outraged condemnation of Brians' rather harmless jokes.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I'm actually not annoyed Scofflaw but you're posts have been pretty ridiculous up to this point.
Anyone can make a joke, its who and what their laughing at that matters. I've never heard a priest ridiculing the Lord.

I can't put anyone off salvation, Jesus provides it and denies it, it don't come from me.
If you mean put them off the message, then I would say this: they never really had it to begin with.

Peoples relationship with Jesus is between themselves and Him. A 23 year old Irish girl isn't really going to have much of an effect on someone who loves their Lord.

T-1111111111111

Looking at all this mess now - it gives me a feeling of disgust. People laugh, let them laugh - they aint gona laugh forever. People dont care, let them dont care - they aint gona live forever. People insult, let them insult - they aint gona insult forever. To some, its all about laugh. There are people who want to have a good laugh, but they know what is it that they can laugh about. There's something nobody should laugh about.

Personally, to me and approx 1.5 billion people, Jesus was God's Prophet and His Messenger, pbuh, but I dont think ONE OF 1.5 BILLION PEOPLE WOULD MAKE A JOKE ABOUT HIM, we rather say: May God's Peace and Mercy be upon Him, every time we mention his name.

Now, u can compare that to what u can read from some posters here. Democracy? Is it? Freedom of speech? What if somebody said, listen, ur mum slept with a donkey, and u are the outcome?
(Just to make it clear: Im not referring to anybody here, I just wana make a point)

So those who make these jokes, I ask them now - would u feel even a bit offended, if somebody used "the mum-donkey question" for instance on you? Would you? If u dont know, maybe u shud ask your mum what is her opinion?

And BTW, the donkey question is far smaller that the "joke" that Brian originally posted.

Now, u can be offended as much as u want, u can ban me, but it seems that there's nothing that one will say that will make u think about what u said.

Im sticking with the fact that 1.5 BILLION people would never even think to say such a nasty "joke" about any of God's prophets.

And to all those who joke about this matter - how good Christians u really are? Now Im not ur judge, but if I was of the same belief, I would wana see u again in my life until u repented.

Goodnite.

Puck

I think where the sides differ here is that one side thinks that Jesus is the butt of the joke and another doesn't think so. I mean I don't think anyone here is trying to say that it's good to make fun of Jesus.

Personally I think the joke is about our perceptions of Jesus and how anyone anywhere can relate to Him. I don't think Jesus was all serious all the time (neither was He a comic). I mean, He didn't sit down and write a book of rules and philosophies. He went out and spent time with people. He went to meals and parties and hung out at people's houses. There's much evidence I think that Jesus was a people person and got on well with folk. I don't think that's possible without a sense of humour.

Scofflaw

Medina wrote:

I'm actually not annoyed Scofflaw but you're posts have been pretty ridiculous up to this point.
Anyone can make a joke, its who and what their laughing at that matters. I've never heard a priest ridiculing the Lord.

I can't put anyone off salvation, Jesus provides it and denies it, it don't come from me.
If you mean put them off the message, then I would say this: they never really had it to begin with.

Peoples relationship with Jesus is between themselves and Him. A 23 year old Irish girl isn't really going to have much of an effect on someone who loves their Lord.

And neither will a joke. I have specifically heard the "Jesus was an Irishman" joke from at least two priests - in public (at a wedding mass, and at a christening). I have also heard other "Jesus" jokes from other priests and ministers at various times, although they're all pretty much as un-racy as Brians'. None made Christ the butt of the joke - and neither does Brians' - the joke there is on the Irish (or whatever).

As to "if you mean put them off the message, then I would say this: they never really had it to begin with" - well, who are you to judge?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Medina

Puck wrote:

Personally I think the joke is about our perceptions of Jesus and how anyone anywhere can relate to him. I don't think Jesus was all serious all the time (neither was He a comic). I mean, He didn't sit down and write a book of rules and philosophies. He went out and spent time with people. He went to meals and parties and hung out at people's houses. There's much evidence I think that Jesus was a people person and got on well with folk. I don't think that's possible without a sense of humour.

I agree that a sense of humour is important, but I don't recall Jesus making fun of God or Himself just to get on the good side of people.

The joke gave out negative signals to non-Christians, many of whom post on this forum, and implies that we can 'take the piss out of religion'.. Just look at the people who posted on my Feedback forum, many thought it was openday for nasty jokes and pictures about Jesus. It's dangerous to cross the line with regard to what constitutes 'tasteful' humour, thats why in such places as the Christian forum, its safer not to do it at all. If one rereads the posts in the Feedback forum, many agreed this forum was not the right place for the joke. I also received PM's from people supporting my point of view, but who maybe didn't want to openly say it..probably because of the personal backlash.

Brian's intentions were good, I know he just intended to unite people with laughter, but making Jesus the centre of the joke is not really a productive way of doing it and undermines the sincerity of many Christians and also of Brian himself as a Moderator in my view.

Asiaprod

Puck wrote:

There's much evidence I think that Jesus was a people person and got on well with folk. I don't think that's possible without a sense of humour.

I would say "impossible" to get on with people without a sense of humor.

Medina

Scofflaw wrote:

And neither will a joke. I have specifically heard the "Jesus was an Irishman" joke from at least two priests - in public (at a wedding mass, and at a christening). I have also heard other "Jesus" jokes from other priests and ministers at various times, although they're all pretty much as un-racy as Brians'. None made Christ the butt of the joke - and neither does Brians' - the joke there is on the Irish (or whatever).

As to "if you mean put them off the message, then I would say this: they never really had it to begin with" - well, who are you to judge?

cordially,
Scofflaw

You're not getting it. I never said the joke would put them off God or salvation, I said I think it is disrespectful to Jesus and also that it makes people think we Christians think its ok to take the piss out of our religion so everyone else can too. Don't you think if Brian now tried to ban someone for a nasty Jesus joke that he would look like a hypocrite?

Jesus is the source of the joke. Comparing him to nationalities of people may be funny, but at the end of it, we're still thinking of Jesus as normal as the rest of us. Well he wasn't the same as the rest of us, he was sinless and the Son of God and a teacher to all.

Matthew 27 (New International Version)
27Then the governor's soldiers took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole company of soldiers around him. 28They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, 29and then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on his head. They put a staff in his right hand and knelt in front of him and mocked him. "Hail, king of the Jews!" they said. 30They spit on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again. 31After they had mocked him, they took off the robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him.

I doubt He found this very funny

p.s. I'm nobody's judge. I said me finding this offensive is doubtful to put anyone off the message of Christ, and if I did, they couldn't really have had a deep faith now to be put off Christ by me.

Puck

Medina wrote:

I agree that a sense of humour is important, but I don't recall Jesus making fun of God or Himself just to get on the good side of people.

The joke gave out negative signals to non-Christians, many of whom post on this forum, and implies that we can 'take the piss out of religion'.. Just look at the people who posted on my Feedback forum, many thought it was openday for nasty jokes and pictures about Jesus. It's dangerous to cross the line with regard to what constitutes 'tasteful' humour, thats why in such places as the Christian forum, its safer not to do it at all. If one rereads the posts in the Feedback forum, many agreed this forum was not the right place for the joke. I also received PM's from people supporting my point of view, but who maybe didn't want to openly say it..probably because of the personal backlash.

Brian's intentions were good, I know he just intended to unite people with laughter, but making Jesus the centre of the joke is not really a productive way of doing it and undermines the sincerity of many Christians and also of Brian himself as a Moderator in my view.

Well this is where I'll respectfully have to disagree with you; I do not think that Jesus was the butt of the joke. I'm fine with your views and I think I can see how you came to them. I think it's a shame that some people felt they couldn't post their own views on here.

By the way I think that sometimes it is healthy to make fun (in a friendly way if you know what I mean) of organised religion - that is to say the rules and traditions (not who or what the people believe in) that can often alienate people from the church. I feel that often it is the case that religion can be one of the great obstacles that get in the way of people making a genuine connection with God and having a close relationship with him. I know that before I was a Christian I looked at the church and saw only rules and regulations and strange customs that meant nothing to me, never once had I had the Grace of God explained to me.

Of course we must know where the lines are in order not to cross them, so it is a tricky area to venture into and often humour is not the best way to handle it.

I guess humour can be dangerous in certain subjects. When a joke is told some people see it as pointing and laughing, others simply see it as laughing.

Medina

Puck wrote:

.

By the way I think that sometimes it is healthy to make fun (in a friendly way if you know what I mean) of organised religion - that is to say the rules and traditions (not who or what the people believe in) that can often alienate people from the church.

I would agree with you here.

bmoferrall

Puck wrote:

I think where the sides differ here is that one side thinks that Jesus is the butt of the joke and another doesn't think so. I mean I don't think anyone here is trying to say that it's good to make fun of Jesus.

Personally I think the joke is about our perceptions of Jesus and how anyone anywhere can relate to Him. I don't think Jesus was all serious all the time (neither was He a comic). I mean, He didn't sit down and write a book of rules and philosophies. He went out and spent time with people. He went to meals and parties and hung out at people's houses. There's much evidence I think that Jesus was a people person and got on well with folk. I don't think that's possible without a sense of humour.

Sums it up well.

Mercifully, when we become Christian we're not required to abandon our individuality or gifts.
The gifted comic can become Christian and continue to charm us with their humour.

God protect us from the well-intentioned but misguided Christian, long of face and furrowed of brow, armed with cake cutter and seeking to stamp us out in their image, 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers'-style.

Victor

Medina, do you think your humourless behavior brings people to Christianity or sends them away?

Medina wrote:

Well he wasn't the same as the rest of us, he was sinless and the Son of God and a teacher to all.

Was he sinless? Did he not get angry with the money changers? I realise its not the greatest of sins, but still.

Matthew 21:12 wrote:

Jesus entered into the temple of God, and drove out all of those who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the money changers' tables and the seats of those who sold the doves.

I doubt He found this very funny

Quite the opposite in fact, he greatly feared the pain (proving he was human) that he expected, but its a little off-topic.

Scofflaw

Medina wrote:

p.s. I'm nobody's judge. I said me finding this offensive is doubtful to put anyone off the message of Christ, and if I did, they couldn't really have had a deep faith now to be put off Christ by me.

This is a public forum, on which you, no less than Brian, are a representative for Christianity. You've made very clear your outrage - on this thread and on another that you specifically started for the purpose. If Brians' actions allow others to think that "Christians can take the piss out of their faith", your actions carry just the same weight - and they allow others to think that Christians can't take a joke.

While many of us on this board are quite sure of our faith, there are plenty who read and post here specifically because they are unsure. Brians' jokes aren't going to upset anyone who isn't a Christian (nor will the less tasteful jokes that you feel it may lead to) - but your rather hysterical outrage may well put off someone who is a Christian, but is unsure, reinforcing their doubts rather than their faith - particularly those younger than you.

Not only that, but as far as I can see, you are mostly concerned lest the impression that "Christians can take the piss out of their faith" be created in those who are not Christians. If you are more concerned by the opinion that non-Christians hold of your religion than for the doubts of those who are Christian, then your priorities are muddled - you are treating Christianity as part of your self-image to be defended lest it lower others' esteem for your faith, and by extension, yourself.

cordially,
Scofflaw

UU

Look, I'm sorry for being rude and arrogant. It's just that I'm in such a nerve wrecking mood because I've just got my Leaving Cert results and my CAO offers for college are coming out tomorrow and I'm really stressed out and I'm in a really weird mood. So don't take me too seriously, once I calm down and get my offers, I'll be back to "normal". Geesh, I need some valium! :rolleyes:

Anyway, please accept my humble apologies and forgive me because I'm truly sorry and I'm such an idiot sometimes. Lets shake hands, okay. No grudges please!

Now where is that whiskey? Lol

Dades

Good luck UU.
In case you don't get what you want, remember when one door shuts - another opens.

UU

The Atheist wrote:

Good luck UU.
In case you don't get what you want, remember when one door shuts - another opens.

Oh geesh, that was an enlightening thing to say! But it's true. Exams are so stressful.

Dades

UU wrote:

Oh geesh, that was an enlightening thing to say! But it's true. Exams are so stressful.

Still have nightmares where I'm dreaming I have to sit exams I never studied for.
I feel your pain, man!

Scofflaw

The Atheist wrote:

Still have nightmares where I'm dreaming I have to sit exams I never studied for.
I feel your pain, man!

It wears off....at this stage I can barely remember my Finals. My A-Levels...I can only remember the Physics repeat, and that's because I was so stoned I had an out of body experience during it.

agedly,
Scofflaw

I had horrific nightmares before my finals last year, aye.
Good luck, UU

Asiaprod

UU wrote:

Look, I'm sorry for being rude and arrogant. It's just that I'm in such a nerve wrecking mood because I've just got my Leaving Cert results and my CAO offers for college are coming out tomorrow and I'm really stressed out and I'm in a really weird mood. So don't take me too seriously, once I calm down and get my offers, I'll be back to "normal". Geesh, I need some valium! :rolleyes:

Good Luck UU, will be thinking of you:)
Sod the Vallium, Stick with whiskey, a Spayside Double malt in large doses should do the trick.

Medina

UU wrote:

Look, I'm sorry for being rude and arrogant. It's just that I'm in such a nerve wrecking mood because I've just got my Leaving Cert results and my CAO offers for college are coming out tomorrow and I'm really stressed out and I'm in a really weird mood. So don't take me too seriously, once I calm down and get my offers, I'll be back to "normal". Geesh, I need some valium! :rolleyes:

Anyway, please accept my humble apologies and forgive me because I'm truly sorry and I'm such an idiot sometimes. Lets shake hands, okay. No grudges please!

Now where is that whiskey? Lol

Hey, I hope God gives you what you truly wish for.

I'm sorry for being sarky with you too. Big handshake and big hug - I wish you all the best.

Medina

Scofflaw wrote:

This is a public forum, on which you, no less than Brian, are a representative for Christianity. You've made very clear your outrage - on this thread and on another that you specifically started for the purpose. If Brians' actions allow others to think that "Christians can take the piss out of their faith", your actions carry just the same weight - and they allow others to think that Christians can't take a joke.

Wrong, its just that many of us find jokes about God offensive and in bad taste. This wasn't the worst I've heard but it's still not really necessary. I've actually got a great sense of humour

Scofflaw wrote:

While many of us on this board are quite sure of our faith, there are plenty who read and post here specifically because they are unsure. Brians' jokes aren't going to upset anyone who isn't a Christian (nor will the less tasteful jokes that you feel it may lead to) - but your rather hysterical outrage may well put off someone who is a Christian, but is unsure, reinforcing their doubts rather than their faith - particularly those younger than you. .

Well Scofflaw its just as well we have jokes like this and defenders of it like you then isn't it?

p.s. 'hysterical' is rather exaggerated isn't it? No? Well that depends on how you read my messages. If you were sitting beside me, you'd know I'm far from hysterical, but rather quite sad and disappointed that a) the joke was posted here at all and b) there are those who would stoop to personal insults to defend it and c) now you're accusing me of putting people off Christianity and d) you can't see the negative impression it gives out that we ourselves condone these kind of jokes therefore its fine for everyone else to make them with a kind of 'sure aren't they doing it themselves' attitude. I thought that since no one else was going to speak from the other side, I would do it myself.

Scofflaw wrote:

Not only that, but as far as I can see, you are mostly concerned lest the impression that "Christians can take the piss out of their faith" be created in those who are not Christians. If you are more concerned by the opinion that non-Christians hold of your religion than for the doubts of those who are Christian, then your priorities are muddled - you are treating Christianity as part of your self-image to be defended lest it lower others' esteem for your faith, and by extension, yourself.

Its not opinions on our religion that I'm worried about, but that at least it deserves some respect. Like any other religion. And also because if I turned away from this and said nothing I would feel like Peter who denied Christ..I'd be denying Christ in my own way also.

Gordon

Medina, are there parts of the bible that you think are extremely funny?

Personally I find the story of David presenting 200 foreskins to King Saul quite humerous. Just to imagine him counting the little ringlets in little piles of ten gives me a chuckle.

Ayla

From a slightly different angle -

If you look at the OP and read each individual characteristic for what it actually is, I'm not sure you could argue that any of them falsely represent Jesus. Jesus, in his human form was (or did) each of those characteristics/actions.

Humour or humour-less aside, I think the OP shows that each person, regardless of their culture, sex or nationality, has something in common with Jesus. And I personally don't think that'd be a message that Jesus would mind getting out.

UU

Medina wrote:

Hey, I hope God gives you what you truly wish for.

I'm sorry for being sarky with you too. Big handshake and big hug - I wish you all the best.

Thanks you very much Medina. I think god or whatever has given me what I wanted because I got offered a place in Trinity College this morning (yes, i was up at 6.00am to find out ) so I am truly delighted. French and Russian here I go.

aidan24326

Medina wrote:

Wrong, its just that many of us find jokes about God offensive and in bad taste. This wasn't the worst I've heard but it's still not really necessary. I've actually got a great sense of humour

You are too easily offended. Haven't you better things to be concerned about than a silly joke? The world that this God of yours supposedly created is full of war, crueltry, hatred and suffering. Maybe you could ponder on that for a while instead of nit-picking harmless jokes?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Medina wrote:

No. 1 - My Conscience
No. 2 - My respect for religion - any religion - and their leaders

If your respect for religion is holding a gun to your head, I say stand up and stop holding yourself hostage.

Asiaprod

UU wrote:

Thanks you very much Medina. I think god or whatever has given me what I wanted because I got offered a place in Trinity College this morning (yes, i was up at 6.00am to find out ) so I am truly delighted. French and Russian here I go.

Way-to-Go UU. Warmest congratulations.

Schuhart

I think the thread was harmless – but it seems to have raised an amount of interest if we’re still posting about it. I think the issue was not so much about the jokes, and more about the openness of the Forum that allows so much to go on.

From my own perspective, which is Athiest (or Buddhist, according to the Belief-O-Matic!) I find the openness of the Christianity Forum genuinely inviting. It really is the case that you browse here initially, frankly, to scoff, and then find yourself sticking around and even posting because many of the threads are actually interesting. Where else would I be found actually defending the theoretical credibility of the Trinity?

I’d take it the intention is the more people are encouraged to discuss Christianity the better to spread the word. But, even knowing that, the confidence and openness is impressive. A faith that’s willing to be subject to discussion, and that isn’t afraid of a joke, is impressive. A faith that guards itself in the pretence of respect, on the other hand, looks as if it has something to hide.

Gordon wrote:

Personally I find the story of David presenting 200 foreskins to King Saul quite humerous. Just to imagine him counting the little ringlets in little piles of ten gives me a chuckle.

Joseph Heller’s ‘God Knows’ retells the biblical story of King David with a great deal of humour, while at the same time writing a compelling story about a man estranged from his God. While its clearly a work of fiction, I think his book leaves you with that realisation that behind the Bible stories were real people with real feelings – love, hate, jealously and, indeed, humour.

On the foreskin issue, without giving too much away, he falls to discussing how exactly they’re going to circumcise 200 struggling Philistines.

maitri

The priest says to the rabbi and the mullah, "You guys can't tell me
you've never eaten pork."
"Never," intones the rabbi.
"Absolutely not!" insists the mullah.
But the priest is sceptical. "Come on, not even once? Maybe in a fit of
rebellion when you were younger?"
"Okay," confesses the rabbi. "When I was young, I once nibbeled bacon."
"I admit it," says the mullah, laughing. "In a fit of youthful
arroganse I sampeled a pork chop..."
Then the conversation turns to the priest's religious observances.
"You can't tell me you've never had sex," says the mullah.
"Of course not!" the priest protests. "I took a vow of chastity."
The mullah and the rabbi roll their eyes. "Maybe after a few drinks?" the
rabbi teases.
"Perhaps, in a moment of temptation, your faith waned?" the mullah
wonders.
"Okay," the priest confesses. "Once, when I was drunk in seminary
school, I had sexual relations with a woman."

"Beats pork, huh?" say the rabbi and the mullah.

BrianCalgary

I think this thread has run it's course. I'm locking it.