[Article] Morris Tribunal reports

Villain

From Breakingnews.ie

Garda plagued by indiscipline, says Morris report
17/08/2006 - 15:23:07



An Garda Siochana has been plagued by mass insubordination and discipline has been severely eroded, a major corruption inquiry revealed today.

The latest reports from the Morris Tribunal found there had been a fatal blurring between indiscipline and industrial relations in the force.

Former President of the High Court Mr Justice Frederick Morris identified specific misbehaviour by a number of individual officers in Donegal throughout the mid-1990s.

But he also said it was not limited to the county.

The judge concluded that proper discipline has been lost in the force and the cumbersome machinery used to deal with complaints against officers is overly and unnecessarily complex.

Mr Justice Morris called for firm but fair measures to combat abuse of the system and restore morale.


Michael McDowell, Justice Minister, said the findings were a matter of grave concern.

“The finding by the tribunal that discipline has been severely eroded is a very grave finding,” the minister said.

“The gross abuses of powers and fabrication of evidence that are identified in these reports are completely unacceptable and deplorable.

“I want to assure the public and those upstanding members of the Service that there will be no toleration of such appalling behaviour.”

Mr McDowell outlined new draft discipline regulations designed to deal with complaints against officers and allegations of corruption in the future.

At least McDowell is recognising the issues at hand, I wonder will Mr Conroy do the same or will he just defend his force like he did after the Barr tribunal's report.

The findings do seem show there is real issues within the gardai and these reports will only damage the reputation of the Gardai further.

mike65

The sh1ts going to be hitting the fan on this story for a long time to come.

The most eye-catching thing so far is the assertion by Morris that Det Sgt John White was guilty of a crime for which he was aquitted only a few weeks back.

Mike.

ircoha

No doubt we will hear that the force has moved on, has taken on board, and all the crap we heard after abbeylara and the earlier barr reports.

Villain

Well I don't want to go over old ground here especially seen as how the last thread ended up after the Barr tribunal, but I do honestly believe the reputation of the Garda Force has been seriously damaged by the findings of these tribunal's.

It will be interesting to hear Noel Conroy's reply.

BendiBus

mike65 wrote:

The most eye-catching thing so far is the assertion by Morris that Det Sgt John White was guilty of a crime for which he was aquitted only a few weeks back.

That troubles me greatly. And now McDowell also says he thinks DS White is guilty.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0818/morris.html

While Morris & McDowell might be correct, is it legally, constitutionally or morally right for a justice minister to basically accuse someone of a crime after they've been found not guilty?

I do agree that the Gardai are taking a pasting recently and that sadly they've earned much of it

Villain

Well the burden of proof required for a tribunal is the same as that in a Civil case, i.e. based on the probability of someone been guilty rather than our criminal Justice system which requires some to be guilty beyond all resonable doubt.

Villain

Ummm Mr Conroy is cutting his holiday short:

From BreakingNews.ie:

Garda Commissioner to speak about Morris report
19/08/2006 - 08:42:33



The Garda Commissioner Noel Conroy is cutting short his summer holidays to return to Dublin immediately to address the fall-out from the latest Morris Tribunal reports.

It is understood the commissioner will also consider a statement made by the Garda Representative Association in support of Detective Sergeant John White, who was central to the tribunal's reports.

The commissioner will have to consider the dismissal of Mr White, who yesterday protested his innocence and is seeking to retire immediately on a full pension.

If successful, he would be entitled to a yearly pension of about €25,000, plus a gratuity payment of about €85,000.

Mr White has been paid an estimated €200,000 since he was suspended from the force in 2001.

Cork

Reform is needed in any organisation.

The PSNI was reformed so too reform is needed for the Gardai.

But what was worrying is that reform is long over due.

There is no excuses for what went on.

Such activity will cost the taxpayers millions.

But safegaurds are needed that such activities never happen again.

lostexpectation

why shouldn't we sack those in charge at the time, not pension off but sack...
there is plenty of peopel to replace them.

it is interesting that this is happening in summer

mcdowell is fraudster, he is doing the least reform he can... still not external independent commission or ombudsperson.


look where are all the threads on this great controversy. police are still going to able to lie in court and get away with it.

mike65

The lack of interest in this topic is illuminating I think. Just proves its much easier to write opinion about the nasty Isrealis/middle east etc then consider the implications of the domestic police force which is badly policed and trained.

Mike.

Villain

I agree Mike, my thread on the Barr tribunal received very little interest apart from Rock Climber debating with me that the Gardai don't have a bad rep.

I have witnessed the gardai's worst side at first hand when I was a member of a jury last year, I sat through cross examination of several Gardai imo and the opinion of the rest of the Jury all bar one lied on the stand.

I believe people just don't question their actions because they reckon there is nothing we can do about it and that is mostly true.

Do people here think the gardai have a good reputation?

InFront

Yes I'd agree this is something that doesn't interest many of us - mainly because of how detatched we all are from it. Because we don't have a government minister with direct authority over the force, it is seen as an issue moreso for Commissioner Conroy than somebody who is answerable to us. An internal management problem of an organisation headed by an unelected citizen is not something we can easily control.
In that regard it is more like the ESB that the Dept. of Health, for example.

Personally, I know some guards and trainee guards (as friends, I mean:) ) and I've also had some dealings with the guards when I lost my bike, and small things like that. I would only have good things to say about them all, and I believe many people would have similar views, so these experiences regularly dont match such reports. Besides, guard-bashing is a particularly annoying national pastime (not that it happens in this thread, or even in Politics btw)

As the third uncomplimentary government report on the Gardai this year, I agree that this topic ought to be receiving more attention, and I hope it's a rude awakening to those in charge of the force. But it really is an issue for Garda Management

oscarBravo

I know lots of Garda members personally. I've met many more over the course of the past 20-odd years. My experience has been, broadly speaking, that they are courteous, polite, broadly honest, and dedicated to doing an extremely difficult job to the best of their ability in the face of overwhelming obstacles.

I've also had bad experiences with individual members, although never particularly bad. I recognise that there are isolated cases of extreme misbehaviour, and that - as evidenced by the Donegal situation - clusters of these can form and become endemic.

By and large, I think we have an excellent police force, and I suspect most people are quite satisfied with them.

Villain

I think these reports highlight the issues within the Gardai as a force though, we all know the majority of Gardai are excellent people who give this state great service however there is always going to be some bad members however thats not really the problem here imo.

The problem is the structures within the Gardai which allow a small majority to go largely unpunished and those structures don't do anything to deter future members from repeating the past.

Reform has been too slow, far too slow and the managment structures have failed time and time again.

LostinBlanch

Agree with Irish about the structural problems and the lack of reform. But this entails a recognition of the fact that there is a problem by the guards themselves. I'm talking about both management and GRA, AGSI levels. Saying it's just a few rotten apples, and sure it'll be allright doesn't cut it anymore. BTW if it was just a few rotten apples how come senior Garda Management didn't spot it and take action? I mean there were enough communications from the victims i.e. McBreartys and others.

Another indication of the unwillingness to accept change is the fact that not all stations have video recordings of interviews AFAIK. This is after a pilot scheme run 10 years ago.

The Gardai don't appear to want any oversight at all. I mean does anyone have anything good to say about the Garda Complaints Board? I think that if reform is good enough for the PSNI then it should be introduced here along the same lines i.e. an ombudsman with full powers not McDowells watered down version.

McDowell wants to huff and puff and appear to introduce reform while introducing little actual reform, especially in the year prior to an election. Mind you Sam Smyth will probably get an exclusive interview or two, so I suppose it's an ill wind etc :rolleyes:

lostexpectation

oscarBravo wrote:

I know lots of Garda members personally. I've met many more over the course of the past 20-odd years. My experience has been, broadly speaking, that they are courteous, polite, broadly honest, and dedicated to doing an extremely difficult job to the best of their ability in the face of overwhelming obstacles.

this is exactly the problem is, all these 'decent gardai' who won't do anything about the ones that do do wrong, they let them away with it and say nothing, cos ah sure they do such a hard job blaa blaa blaa ...its like the priest getting shifted around the country sack them for god sake, sack them. The good gardai are as much to blame if they don't do anything about the bads ones, if they continue to indulge in the system that allows misconduct without discipline.

Conroy was number 2 when was happening he should be sacked too.

constitutionus

lostexpectation wrote:

this is exactly the problem is, all these 'decent gardai' who won't do anything about the ones that do do wrong, they let them away with it and say nothing, cos ah sure they do such a hard job blaa blaa blaa ...its like the priest getting shifted around the country sack them for god sake, sack them. The good gardai are as much to blame if they don't do anything about the bads ones, if they continue to indulge in the system that allows misconduct without discipline.

Conroy was number 2 when was happening he should be sacked too.

but the problem with that is it come back to the structures in place again. and its not just isolated to the gardai. what we need (besides the aforementioned ombudsman with the power to swoop in and inspect) is a propper whistlblowers charter. to my knowledge any gardai that has stuck his head above the paraphets usually gets transfered to the aran islands as a "thank you" from the people he just embarrased. look at the DR Neary affair, it important to point out it WASNT an irish nurse that blew the whistle on him. it was a girl from norhtern ireland and as far as i know she aint working in ireland anymore. hardly encourages an enviroment of self policing does it.

i agree that its stunnig how little comment has been put forward on this on these boards and elsewhere in general , usually you cant get people to shut up with the most assinine views on certain subject . yet on this nothing?

makes you wonder do people really not care, or are they worried what an investigation into their own sectors will turn up? after all we just had a scandal about solicitors stealing money from their clients yet no convictions and the law society? " sure we're the best to sort this out, no need to have an independant body investigating us". and the same with the medical sector, christ 3 consultants BACKED neary in what he did . giving him the all clear despite all the evidence,yet no ones asking for their resignations.

put simply the lack of coverage and action on this can be put into a simple sentance. establlishment ireland is pulling up the drawbridge. us little pesants can just feck off and leave things the way they are i.e whats suits us in power

Ohyeah

I was surprised how little there was in the Sunday papers about the Morris report, Michael Clifford had a good piece in the Trib, and there was some in the Indo. But really considering how shocking these findings are I thought there would be much more of an outcry. There is stuff on the issues that arise out of the report for relations between the guards and travellers in the news section of www.dailyireland.com .

Personally I think this whole thing shows you that the PSNI, despite its faults,:eek: is set up better than the guards presently .

Especially the position of Nuala Loan, something like that is needed down here. I think the majority of guards are good, but the clubish, almost sect like band of brothers feel to the force is so worrying . Maybe they should not all be trained in Tipp together, maybe they should be spread out amoung the NUI Universities amoung the general student population.

It is not going to make a huge change but it might be a start?

constitutionus

lets not forget the sudden disappearence of ALL the papers security correspondants. funny how the implication of the people they rely on for stories resulted in a mass application for holidays. it says something about ireland that when the gardai are under investigation we have to rely on RELIGIOUS correspondants to write the articiles :rolleyes: this is definently not healthty for the press

mike65

Its August - when the media fecks off!

Mike.

lostexpectation

I think the impression given by the the gardai argueing with mcdowell over various things, gives the impression that mcdowell is doing something significant about the corruption in the form of the force, while he only doing the barest reform.

constitutionus

too true. its worrying that we're not hearing much from the opposition, if ever there was an opportunity to push through an ombudsman with the same powers as the one in the north then the publication of theses reports are it. yet nowt is heard. depressing to say the least. we can only infer from this the lads in the dail ,from whatever side, are happy with things the way they are

Villain

Well Mr Conroy has spoken, from rte.ie:

The Garda Commissioner, Noel Conroy, has said the findings of the Morris Tribunal have hurt the standing of the gardaí in the eyes of the public.

However, he said discipline in the force was working well and the problems outlined by the tribunal in relation to garda management had been addressed.

Commissioner Conroy was giving his first public reaction to the latest reports from the tribunal into alleged garda corruption in Co Donegal.

Umm so it looks like Mr Conroy agrees me i.e. the Reputation of the Gardai has been damaged and if the Tribunals weren't bad enough we today got the report of the Commission of Investigation into the case of Dean Lyons which found that Garda written records of the case were incomplete and potentially misleading and concludes that Dean Lyons was asked inappropriate questions.

This is a disgrace and its a pitty posters don't seem to care, I mean I used to post a lot here in the past about a certain party and I would have reply posts flooding in, however when it comes to our Gardai and Justice system people don't care???

Villain

The Morris tribunal is currently sitting in Donegal and yesteday Mr McBrearty Jnr walked out of the tribunal refusing to be cross examined by Barristors acting on behalf of Gardai. He said he would not be cross examined until he was awarded legal aid as the Gardai had been. He said he was willing to go to jail if that was the case but he would not be cross examined until the Minisiter awarded his family legal aid.

He went on to say he could afford to go to the high court and that all his assests were outside the state so could not be frozen by the court.

Vincent Browne's show on RTE1 last night re-inacted the events at the tribunal and Morning Ireland replayed part of it.

His father Mr McBrearty Snr is also due to give evidence.

It is an absolute disgrace that the McBrearty family have not been awarded legal aid after everything that they have been through, the Minister is refusing to do so!


Article from breakingnews.iol.ie:

McBrearty walks out of Morris Tribunal
25/10/2006 - 17:50:37

A Donegal publican who says he was framed by gardaí for murder today walked out of the Morris Tribunal.

Frank McBrearty Jnr refused to submit to cross examination by legal representatives for An Garda Siochana during the tribunal’s hearings in Donegal Town.

Mr Justice Morris has vowed to go to the High Court in Dublin to compel him to give evidence but the witness said he was prepared to go to jail rather than testify without full legal aid.

The tribunal has found that Mr McBrearty was among 12 people wrongly arrested for the October 1996 death of cattle dealer Richie Barron who was the victim of a hit-and-run accident.

“I am prepared to take whatever consequences there are … I am prepared to take my case to the High Court, to the Supreme Court … and, if they don’t listen to me in the Supreme Court then I am prepared to go to Europe,” he said.

“I am not prepared to be cross examined before my family is given legal aid.

“I am prepared to stay in jail for however long as it takes to get justice.”

Mr McBrearty has been giving evidence about a catalogue of alleged abuse at the hands of gardaí based in Letterkenny and Dublin including being punched, slapped around the ears, kicked and told he was going to prison for 20 years for the murder of Mr Barron.

Last month he was awarded a record €1.5m in damages and granted an apology by the Government.

Mr Justice Morris said he had no option but to apply to the High Court to ask that Mr McBrearty be returned to complete his evidence.

“It is the law that I can’t evaluate evidence unless it has been subjected to cross examination.

“If you want me to entertain your evidence then you must subject yourself to cross examination.”

Referring to Mr McBrearty’s claims that he was threatened and abused during a 12-hour grilling at Letterkenny Garda Station on December 4, 1996, Mr Justice Morris said: “You have made serious criminal allegations against a number of people and you have spoken on a number of occasions about your constitutional rights. I must tell you that they have the constitutional right to confront their accuser and challenge his version of the events if that’s what they want to do.”

He warned that a High Court battle could be costly, that if Mr McBrearty ignored a High Court order then he could be found in contempt and thrown in prison and that the authority could sequester his financial assets.

Mr McBrearty has claimed he was the subject of a campaign of abuse which culminated in his arrest on February 4 1997 in connection with an assault on Edward Moss, separate from the death of Mr Barron.

The tribunal was shown garda footage of the witness being dragged around Letterkenny police station on his back after he lay down and refused to answer questions.

Detectives continued to question him, asking him whether he broke Mr Moss’s leg. At one point, Mr McBrearty alleges, they turned him over and poured water on him, although that is not caught on video.

“I was verbally and physically abused, I was in a hysterical state, and the bottom line is you don’t have to be a genius to know that I had some sort of breakdown in the station,” he added.

“I should not have been in that station, I should have been in a psychiatric ward.”

He alleged gardaí fabricated evidence against him to make the arrest despite knowing he had a “100% alibi”.

At one stage, he said, he punched himself four times in the face to escape questioning.

The accused, aged 37, was later cleared of the charges.

The father-of-four said his entire family had been subjected to police abuse.

His father, also Frank, is due to give evidence to the tribunal.

Isnt legal aid means tested?

Surely that kind of legal aid is not the same as the state paying for legal aid for themselves,the Gardaí are the state.

That said,I think the government should be paying all the costs for the main parties in a tribunal of investigation.
Not to do so is preposterous.

Villain

I'm not sure Tristrame, I think its different for the Tribunal, I agree 100% it is preposterous, especially considering the Gardai have already apologised to the McBrearty family, I mean its not as if the state is contesting that the McBrearty's was victims here.

constitutionus

but typical of the state though, who ever is in government at the time. modus operandi is to crush the individual concerned and threaten them with bankruptcy and pauperisation while looking after the "lads". pick any scandal over the last 20yrs.:(

Villain

Frank McBrearty Snr has started giving evidence to the tribunal and its sickening to read what he went through. The gardai involved should be locked up, not given their pension and told off, and those that were in managment at the time should also be sacked.

From BreakingNews.ie

A publican wrongly arrested during a botched murder inquiry today claimed he was unable to visit his mother’s grave because of the shame gardaí had brought on his family.

Frank McBrearty Snr’s home in Raphoe, Co Donegal, was raided by 14 Garda officers 10 years ago during an investigation into the death of cattle dealer Richie Barron.

Mr McBrearty’s son and nephew were the prime suspects in the murder case, but it was later ruled that Mr Barron died in a hit-and-run collision and that they had nothing to do with his death.

The Garda cover-up following the wrongful arrests of 12 people during the probe ultimately led to the Morris Tribunal and the unravelling of a web of corruption within the force.

Mr McBrearty Snr told the hearing his family was almost destroyed because gardaí were trying to frame them for Mr Barron’s death.

“In a small town of 1,400 people we were shamed out of this world,” he said. “We were spat on. We couldn’t go to the graveyard to my mother’s grave.

“We couldn’t go to Mass. We were attacked, assaulted.

“You have to live in this situation to know what’s going on here, what these guards was up to along with their informers.

“Not one of these people has been charged for anything. They haven’t been charged. They haven’t lost anything.

“I have lost nearly all my life’s savings, banks and everything, to try and fight for the truth.”

Mr McBrearty Snr told the tribunal he was arrested on December 5, 1996, on the word of criminal informers.

“I shouldn’t even have been arrested,” he said. None of us (should have). We were all innocent people. We were arrested by the word of criminals.

“There was no proper feedback about what these people were up to, the guards - (Garda) John O’Dowd and the team and the criminals they used, the informers they used.”

Officers laughed and sniggered throughout the search and called his family “the Mafia”, he claimed.

A personal photograph of him at a party was taken and later put up at Letterkenny Garda Station with the words “The Don” written on it, the tribunal heard.

A few hours into his interrogation, Mr McBrearty Snr was admitted to Letterkenny General Hospital on the advice of a doctor, who suspected he was in danger of having a heart attack or stroke.

He said he was down on his hands and knees in the garda station protesting his innocence and was crying during interrogation before being taken into medical care.

Inspector John McGinley, in the presence of Superintendent John Fitzgerald, asked him to sign a blank sheet of paper, he alleged.

“(Inspector McGinley) said sign that, you’ll have no more bother … he was the main man trying to frame me and my family, him and the four Dublin boys (detectives from the National Bureau of Criminal Investigation),” said Mr McBrearty Snr.

“I said: ‘No way, I’m not signing anything’.”

Mr McBrearty said: “I tried to reason with them that we were all innocent people. They wouldn’t listen to us.

“They were banging on the table saying: ‘You’re a hard man, you’re not so hard a man down here. Give us the information that we need and you’ll be released shortly’.”

He said Detective Garda Martin Anderson was peering into the interrogation room through the fan light over the door and smiling.

During his time in hospital Mr McBrearty Snr said he was under constant watch by two gardaí who restricted his visitation rights.

Both Detective Garda Anderson and Detective Garda James Frain prevented his son and nephews from seeing him, he claimed.

After being released from hospital on the afternoon of December 12 he was immediately taken back into garda custody for further interrogation.

Mr McBrearty Snr will continue to give evidence tomorrow.