Despairing Man

LegacyUser

I am despairing at the moment & have been for quite some time now over a personal issue. Im looking for anybody to shed some light on my situation.
Here goes, Im a 27 year old man & I have intimacy problems. The problem I have is that while I have lots & lots of great friends, I have always failed at having a romantic relationship with a girl. I have always been shy in general & I don't know what happens but when it comes to being close to a girl I like I tend to freak out inside my head, I start to sweat & I also tend to blush a fair bit. The blushing/sweating etc.. has always been with me, it doesnt just happen with girls only at all, it happens any time I am in a situation which causes me stress.
The strange thing is that I want for nothing more than to be involved with a girl I like but when it comes to it I feel trapped by my shyness/problem.

Ironically on the outside I am considered to be very handsome by all, while on the inside I feel like a lost little boy, afraid, when it comes to this part of my life.
Consequently I've mainly only been with women when drunk & I have never had a proper girlfriend which I find so embarrassing to admit at this stage. I've even contemplated suicide if I never progress from this miserable suffocating existence I lead.
I don't know what im looking for here really anyway, alot of you probably will think this is laughable but its my truth & I hate it.

LegacyUser

Don't despair my friend, lots of us have difficulty with finding a real girlfriend - even those of us who have no shyness whatsoever.

It's best if you start to become involved with more things - you can get over your shyness simply by throwing yourself into lots of social situations. Join clubs, don't drink so much, face your fear! Join a voluntary organisation or charity. You will be in at the deep end, but you will have to swim out. If you keep doing this, you will start to become used to dealing with people, and your fears will start to subside.

Eventually, you may even meet a nice lady along the way. But BEFORE that happens, you have to be happy with yourself - otherwise you are in no ways ready for a deep relationship!!

Be happy my friend, I was once in your boat and didn't have any proper girlfriend since I was 13. Now at 26 I've finally found a proper girlfriend... took me a while, but I don't care

secret_squirrel

You have to take this problem into your own hands and fix it.

Consider joining a dating site or some kind of club where you will get to meet elidgible women, like salsa or similar.

Dont go expecting to pull, but use it as an excuse to ask out a few women.

You will more than likely get a few knock backs but will also get a good few dates out of it.

Keep persevering with the dates and hopefully you will eventually get relaxed and a bit more matter of fact about the whole thing.

And then my friend the world will be your oyster.

Just remember you are going to have to work at it, and it wont happen all at once.

Its a marathon - not a sprint.

The good news is that you have at least a decade left to sort yourself out.

free2fly

Have you considered counseling? Is the problem that you don't know how to talk to girls? Do you have any idea exactly what iit is that brings on the fear? Is there something in particular that triggers it? If you'd like to PM me perhaps I can help you to feel more comfortable talking to a girl online. I am in Boston so it will be a safe situation for you. And then maybe you will be able to jump onto the dating sites. Just an offer OP

Colm_OReilly

Consider joining a dating site or some kind of club where you will get to meet elidgible women, like salsa or similar.

I don't think this is particularly good advice. The problem is not access to women, it's the skills and mentality necessary to communicate and behave around them the OP is lacking in.

OP,
It sounds like you have confidence issues. At some point in your young life you probably became shy to survive in the group you were in - be this school or with friends. This can occur ridiculously early in life. I see 4 year old kids whom I coach shy away in certain situations.

The good news is you don't have to be like this in the future.

And also, your situation is a lot more common than you think (trust me on this, I work in this area).

If you'd like more info on overcoming this PM me and we could chat about it over the phone or on MSN. I'd also recommend you take up fire2fly's offer of PMing her. It's a pretty nice offer.

Hope this helps,
Colm

secret_squirrel

Colm_OReilly wrote:

I don't think this is particularly good advice. The problem is not access to women, it's the skills and mentality necessary to communicate and behave around them the OP is lacking in.

I disagree, part of the problem is accessing women who arent in the 'friends zone', which is exactly what my suggestion will achieve.

If he's needs counselling to make the first step thats ok, but he still needs to develop the tools and behaviours to deal with women on a romantic level.

The kind of venues Im thinking of will allow him to do that.

Trinity

Hey there

This must be very distressing for you. DO you have any female friends? How are you around them, is it just with girls you have a romantic interest in?

Lots of people are shy and self conscious in those situations. I imagine though they are intensified by your 'awareness' that this type of re-action is inclined to happen.

meaning you start to worry about it, your mind starts to wander, you may even try to fight it, lots of negative thoughts running through your head, your inner voice criticizing you telling your you are stupid, to pull yourself together and while all that is going through your head you are bound to put yourself under terrible pressure and how can you feel relaxed and confident with your brain about to explode with all that negativity going around it!!

Ok what i will say is do not get drunk to deal with this probem, that can lead to an even bigger problem of depending on alcohol to get you through sticky situations.

it sounds like you have a lack of confidence. would you consider reading some self help books or doing an assertiveness course? Even do simple exercises at home like writing down your list of good qualities, your skills, what are you proud of, what are you good at. Get really really confident in one area of your life were you know you are really good at what you do. when having a conversation with a girl try to talk about areas of your life that you are confident about and the best thing is to be a good conversationalist you actually dont have to say much at all. People love to talk about themselves and are more impressed with someone who is a good listener, so while they rattle on about themselves that will give you a chnace to think positive thoughts and chase away those negative ones!

how is everything in other areas of your life? i.e. work, home life etc.

Colm_OReilly

secret squirrel,

Anytime I've seen someone throw themselves into situations like this without the necessary inner confidence work has only led to them becoming either socially maladjusted or withdrawn even further.

I didn't mean to imply they were terrible ideas, from a professional point of view on this it's not the optimum strategy. Now if you were working on yourself as well as pushing your boundaries by trying these things out, that's great!

Of course, I'd recommend coaching over counselling, but then again I would say that.

Hope I've made more sense with this,
Colm

Trinity

I was going to suggest that chatting/mailing over a dating site or similar would be beneficial to your conversational skills and allow you get comfortable with someone before meeting them face to face but after giving it some thought i dont feel it will in effect help you deal (long-term) with the situation at hand which is being in someones company - face to face.

and i fear you may get stuck in a rut of 'only' being able to communicate from a distance as it were and still faced with the original problem of interacting with women.

I stick with my original suggestions as above, not as a professional but someone who overcame years shyness, anxiety and panic attacks by arming myself with knowledge and working on my self esteem (still not 100% but i think i can hold my own!!). I hadnt heard of coaching at the time but felt counselling was extreme!

Feel the fear and do it anyway

Colm_OReilly

Hey Trinity1,

Nice work on improving yourself. Also, your so on the money about the rambling thoughts that stop you dead in your tracks!

Hope you get on well with Roper (OT!)

Colm

PS: Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway is an awesome book!

Trinity

Thanks colm, should i be scared meetin roper;)

Hope i'm not banned for going off topic - i hate getting into trouble (another fear yet to be conquered) lol

I'll tell ya OP it aint easy, there is no overnight cure but Please dont contemplate suicide or anything like that because your fear is just a thought.

you gotta take control, be the boss. This may sound silly but put an elastic band on your wrist and everytime you feel a negative thought ping yourself with it and remind yourself of your good qualities. Give your negative inner voice a name, someone you dont like, a school bully or teacher or something.

and everytime you start to think of something negative like 'god dont say something stupid' tell your inner 'john' or whoever to shut the **** up, i'm a good bloke, i know my stuff!

(that may sound ridiculous but it sometimes works!!)

i spent many a night in front of the mirror repeating i am not ugly i am not stupid i am not uninteresting

really though listing your good points is a good way to start.

_patchouli

OP, just from reading your post you come across as incisive, honest, sensitive, articulate, intelligent etc. You've got a lot going for you, ok?

Some good advice has been posted already.

Could I also suggest that you consider some deep breathing and relaxation techniques? Do a google on it and you'll find more info.

Another thing - stop being so hard on yourself! Sometimes situations like this can become self fulfilling. Thinking positive and giving yourself little tasks to overcome is way to do this.
As Colm pointed out do not try to plunge yourself into a situation that you are not ready for.
The whole point of being "intimate" or close to someone is that you are comfortable in their presence. Otherwise it isn't intimacy by definition!
You'll want to begin by being comfortable striking up a conversation with someone that you don't know. And if the conversation isn't going well or you feel yourself getting anxious, then just calmly make an excuse and leave. Bit by bit you'll relax and grow in confidence.

And it may happen that you'll meet and mingle with people who aren't very nice. The key thing to bear in mind is that this is their problem and nothing to do with you - they just aren't very nice people! So you don't fall into the trap of allowing others to reinforce your fear.

Hope this helps a bit.
And feel free to PM me if you'd like someone to talk to in more detail about it.

Húrin

wuhiufvoj wrote:

Ironically on the outside I am considered to be very handsome by all, while on the inside I feel like a lost little boy, afraid, when it comes to this part of my life.
Consequently I've mainly only been with women when drunk & I have never had a proper girlfriend which I find so embarrassing to admit at this stage. I've even contemplated suicide if I never progress from this miserable suffocating existence I lead.
I don't know what im looking for here really anyway, alot of you probably will think this is laughable but its my truth & I hate it.

I'm not good at giving advice because I'm young, but just remember that there are lots of women who would love to be with you... perhaps some who would even kill to be with you.

Evil Phil

Going off topic, soz, but what's the difference between counseling and coaching in this situation? How does coaching work to help the OP get over this?

Cheese Princess

OP, it's a good sign that you're seeking advice to help you overcome your shyness, it's a step in the right direction.
Do you have the same problem communicating with people on a day to day basis? Because I would suggest that it might be better to work on your communication skills with colleagues or friends first to build your confidence.
Maybe you could try striking up conversations with girls at work who you wouldn't normally speak to and aren't necessarily attracted to. Or friends sisters etc..
I don't think a dating agency is the right place for you. I think you need to get comfortable with female friends first and take it from there.
Also, I don't know if you are interested in sports at all but there are a number of organisations you can join who run mixed social sports teams like indoor soccer or basketball or tag rugby. It's a really good way to mix with new people of both sexes and can be very sociable.
You might find that a lot of girls like a shy guy - remember that song a few years ago!!
Best of luck!!

Colm_OReilly

Evil Phil wrote:

Going off topic, soz, but what's the difference between counseling and coaching in this situation? How does coaching work to help the OP get over this?

Most medicine, inc counselling, deals with making people unsick, fixing them, bring them from a negative up to neutral. Coaching is generalling focused on going from neutral to positive.

A counselling relationship is generally focused on the past, and can often be hierarchical. Coaching would focus on the future, what the client wants, and what obstacles are in the way.

To use an analogy. If you broke your leg, you'd see a physical therapist to give you rehabd exercises so you could walk properly again. But if you wanted to leg how to squat 200Kg or run competitively, youd hire a coach or personal trainer.

In this instance a counsellor would probably look into the reasons as to why the OP is shy, and go on fixing them from there. A coach would look into what the client wants to achieve, what his goals are, and what's holding him back. See the difference?

Having experienced both counselling/therapy and coaching I can say coaching was infinitely more beneficial and empowering. A lot of coaches I've worked with and network with are also trained in psychology or counselling.

Hope this helps,
Colm

Black Swan

Is there something you really enjoy doing? Hiking, swimming, sailing, theatre, film, whatever? Join a group that does what you enjoy doing, provided that women also are found to participate in the group. Then pursue this thing you enjoy, sharing it with others in the group, especially the females. Find a girl who shares your interest and is single, invite her to lunch. Lunch does not imply the same thing as dinner or drinks. Low stress for the both of you. Progress from there.

Marksie

Trinity1 wrote:

i spent many a night in front of the mirror repeating i am not ugly i am not stupid i am not uninteresting

Thats a good way to start. I have given friends of mine something similar to do, in a slightly different context, to overcome issues about themselves and it has helped immeasurably

OP: Trinity is giving some good advice that sometimes the best conversationalist is one who listens and make sthe other talk. Free2fly can help you as well i think..... she's a gem
When i was younger i had difficulties in talking in certain situations, and indeed even now in a pub or large situation it I still find it difficult to open a conversation.. shy at an initial approach (though anyone who knows me reading this would scratch their heads) . Once i overcame this though and listened as well as talked it goes ok.

COlm: Coaching great term. I must remember that it has less connotations than counselling.

LegacyUser

Firstly I would like to thank those of you who have offered me some sound advice, you're all very kind.

In response to a few of you, Free2fly, I have considered counselling but if im honest I would be terrified of going & im not sure thats the route I would like to go down. On the friends thing, yes I have some female friends & I have had close friendships with girls over the years (however they usually involved them fancying me or me fancying them which gets messy). So I can talk to girls so thats not my problem, but thank you very much anyway.

I will explain my problem a bit better for you, my sweating/blushing is just a fact for me, im not sure if this is fixable is it? For example if I was walking down the street I would break out into sweat, it happens all the time with me, & it does look unusual for people to see. Basically this occupies my mind alot in social situations with girls. Internally I'd be thinking (if go up to this girl that I really fancy I will most likely talk to her then break out in a sweat/blush, get terribly embarrassed because this is happenening, she thinks im strange so I make my excuses & exit. And believe me this has happened to me a fair few times, its distressing to say the least.

What I have going for me is that I am considered to be very handsome & girls do fancy me & some have fallen for me over the years. Its ironic that I feel I can't capitalise on what I have been given. It took me a long time to think this about myself & I do consider myself lucky in this sense & it just may be what will save me.

So sometimes girls that fancy me will make the aggressive move.
My main problem is with girls that I fancy, I freak out in my head completely exactly like the way Trinty1 described. Trinity1, thanks for your post, you really hit the nail on the head with that. Recently a girl I fancy approached me, we never talked before, i've seen her looking at me in that way, you know sometimes you just know if a girl fancies you right? So she came up, I completely freaked out in my head, tried to play it cool which i did verbally but yet again started to blush & drip sweat, I felt so awkward I just cut the conversation short so she would go away. This is the type of thing that has happened to me all through the years. I try to block out negative thoughts & sometimes do but my condition makes me feel abnormal. I look around at others who can effortlessly have a conversation with someone they fancy & I think to myself "is this what my life is or has become" "why am I like this" "will it ever improve?"

Its ruining my life & it occupies my mind all the time now, I know that that will make it worse but as I said there's nothing more I want than to be intimate with a girl who fancies me & I fancy her & see where that goes.
I am comfortable around girls I don't really fancy(i've ended up being sexual with them sometimes in a desperate attempt at intimacy) & can even show off a slightly more confident/cocky side with them, & i think that this is how I should be with the girls I like but I Never am, I crumble.
Trinity, work is fine, I have a great loving family & I have good solid friendships. I do have confidence issues, always have, I was extremely quiet as a child & that side of my personality is still with me in a sense, that introspective side.

Someone mentioned alcohol in the post, my answer is yes unfortunately I have always used alcohol as a crutch to slighten my shyness in social settings. And when I have tried to go without drink I feel unbelievably awkward, freak out inside & then get terribly depressed again about my whole situation.

Colm you seem to know your stuff & thank you very much for your post, I may PM you but I may not, not out of rudeness!! but you know im just not sure if I will. In the meantime are there any books that would be of use to me to try & resolve this?

Please everybody feel free to comment/ offer advice on what I have written here, I have already found your advice very beneficial/comforting, making me feel like less of a freak with a secret problem!

OP

Trinity

I had a huge reply typed and i lost it aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.

will try again.

Hey there

Delighted you got back to us.

First off and only answer if you are comfortable, when you have these sweating attacks so you have any other physical symptoms? It would be very useful to know.

Ok this is probably going to sound even more crazy than my usual drivel LOL and it is of course to be taken with a pinch of salt!!

(and i will assume that you have ruled out a physical/medical problem for the sweating?)

I think you have programmed yourself to have this type of reaction. In your case the 'trigger' is girls you like or situations that involve girls you like. I think its a case of re-programming your body and mind.

I'm sorry i am crap at explaining things so i will try to put it in lay mans terms using an example of my own experiences.

I took panic attacks from the age of 16.

One day a couple of years ago i took a very bad one at a particular bus stop. It was one of the worst ones in years and i had to run home and take the day off work. I was very shaken after it. On top of that i was also embarrassed as i could imagine what people were thinking with my crazy behaviour (although truth is they prob didnt even notice)

Anyway, after that, everytime i went to that damn bus stop i had a panic attack.

Why? Because my brain remembered the awful, unpleasant experience i had had there before and made the association (trigger) and again my body went into the 'fight or flight' response.

It took me a long time to figure out that it wasnt in fact a bus stop possessed with an evil spirit from hell making me have this debilitating reaction to it. IT WAS ME!! My brain reminding me, a defence mechanism so to speak.

Its like if you stick your hand into a fire and naturally it burns, your brain wont allow you to do that again because it remembers the physical effect that fire had on you. So its trying to save you from the same situation/unpleasnt feeling again.

The reason i mention this is because your situation sounds more like anxiety (since you've told us a little more) as opposed to lack of confidence.

These are questions you may just want to ask yourself you do not have to post anything you are not comfortable with.

Was there something, a person, a situation that you first remembering having this type of reaction?

What are your views on intimacy, relationships?

Your childhood and parents relationship can have a profound effect on you as an adult.

I will have a peek on the net and see if there are any books that may be of interest.

I am by no means saying this is the case OP feel free to tell me i'm nuts lol.

***Trinity scuffles back to her padded cell.............:)

_patchouli

Original Poster wrote:

I will explain my problem a bit better for you, my sweating/blushing is just a fact for me, im not sure if this is fixable is it? For example if I was walking down the street I would break out into sweat, it happens all the time with me, & it does look unusual for people to see.

I've heard of this before. It's a medical condition apparantly. Have a look on some medical sites or google "excessive perspiration" etc.
Of course this sweating, rise in body temperature etc. is going to affect your social life.
From your second post though OP I think you've made it clear that it's not that that you are shy with girls as such. It's just self-consciousness about this physical condition impacting upon your ability to relax and feel comfortable and be yourself and let things flow.
Find a good GP. I'm sure they will have heard of the condition. It has a name, but I can't remember what it is.
Best of luck with it.
p

Marksie

ecessive sweating is know as hyperhidrosis
I found an Irish website: http://www.sweating.ie/index1.htm

Sometimes putting a name to something can help.
But have you been to your doctor?

it may be that you are very self conscious of the condition and that is affecting you in terms if intimacy.

anxiety attacks are very common and can surprise you at the most unlikely times.
Have you thought of meditation to calm the mind?

Colm_OReilly

OP,

In the meantime are there any books that would be of use to me to try & resolve this?

Strangely enough I can't think of any books/resources that deal specifically with shyness and social confidence at the moment. I'll try dig some up and post tomorrow. A lot of general self help books will help - in particular I cannot recommend Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway highly enough.

Its ruining my life & it occupies my mind all the time now

If you're focusing on what you do wrong or what you don't want unfortunately you'll amplify that. Might I suggest you focus on what you want, concentrating on the feelings that will come about as a result of what you want. I know this is tricky at first but if you change your mental pictures and self talk your attitude and your reality has to change.

I am comfortable around girls I don't really fancy(i've ended up being sexual with them sometimes in a desperate attempt at intimacy) & can even show off a slightly more confident/cocky side with them, & i think that this is how I should be with the girls I like but I Never am, I crumble.

Essentially you're right. So many guys try to be something/someone else around people they're attracted to while being completely different with those who they've no attraction to.

Might I suggest you stop using the word "should", it's very destructive for a number of reasons.

I'm pressed for time today so I'll try and have a more detailed post and recommendations tomorrow.

Colm