Should Irish Be Compulsory

Corruptedmorals

I agree, I don't think it should be compulsory, the amount of people that hate it and drop to Pass the instant they can..it's taught wrong, really.

Though I think it's a sad day when Irish citizens refuse to learn their own language.

nedward

I don't normally reply to anguished debate threads like this, but the sheer stupidity/verbal incontinence of some of the posters makes me feel like giving my opinion. First of all, I was never particularly good at Leaving Cert Irish (I dropped it for my repeat year), and I won't be studying it because, guess what, I need points! I think the syllabus, with its emphasis on literature (surely there has to be a file better than Caitlín Maude? I think Antaine O Reachtaire could write something better than Fiche Bliain Ag Fás) to the detriment of communication, IS a major stumbling block.

But I am intensely proud of my cúpla focail, and I am ashamed of not being able to speak the language of my forefathers. I guess the issue boils down as to whether you want to be educated, and actually learn something for the sake of learning, or be a jobsworth with no real appreciation for anything outside your next wage packet. To sum up, not one Leaving Cert, pumped up with British poison, shall defile the holy ground of An Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaíocht, where the air of true freedom smells sweet!

Goodnight now, agus Dia libh.

JC 2K3

smemon, globalisation isn't necessarily a good thing...

I've read your Leaving Cert site, and although I appreciate the cynicism and believe a cynical approach to the LC isn't a bad thing, I can't help but wonder what actually interests you? Like, why not kill yourself now and get it all over with?

jaydigity

nedward wrote:

To sum up, not one Leaving Cert, pumped up with British poison, shall defile the holy ground of An Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaíocht, where the air of true freedom smells sweet!

Goodnight now, agus Dia libh.

:rolleyes: Wow, nationalism!:p

mateo

I actually hate learning Irish. I'm sorry but I can't help it. Why make us learn god awful pros and poetry?? It's just stress inducing and giving us less time to learn the language itself. I've been learning Japanese for about 1 year and I can say alot more in Japanese than I can in Irish! The syllabus is just a joke.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Irish dancing, potato picking and bodhran playing should all be compulsory.
I'm ashamed that I don't know these things.

Feral Mutant

DublinWriter wrote:

I do agree that Irish, or another language, should be compulsory as learning another language helps develop your brain at an early stage, but it's all down to circulum - it needs to be modernised and made 'sexy' and vital.

Irish sexy? Have you seen Peig?

I used to be totally anti-irish like a lot of you. Then I did my leaving. Now I'm pretty indifferent mainly because it's too late to save me from it but since I had to suffer through it, the rest of you might as well suffer like I did. Misery loves company and unfortunately for you, everyone old enough to vote to change the system has either already been miserable or thinks irish is great. Enjoy

Chillwithcian

Looking at this objectivaly....

1.We would probably be speaking Irish as our main language and struggling with english as a second language, had not our history decided that for us.

2.Irish is your national language, it is what differences you bewtween the americans and the english (and i know from holiday experiences that people welcome you much more openly when you correct them saying you are irish not english). It's part of our culture and it would be a shame to lose it.

3. I agree that irish should be compulsorary because of the above. I do not agree with the goverments syllabus though. By giving students ridiciously hard courses, they arn't exactly encouraging us to love the language so to speak. According to two top teachers i used to know, the juniour cert higher level syllabus is HIGHER then leaving cert ordinary (and i believe them, ive just done it...)

4.It would not be so bad IF we were thought it at primary school level, but really we are taught VERY badly (unless you go to a galescoil)

smemon

JC 2K3 wrote:

Like, why not kill yourself now and get it all over with?

because i've goals and dreams.

globalisation IS a good thing. The less different we are as a nation, the more peaceful the world becomes.

Think about it... if muslims took off their blankets and spoke english... if mc donalds sold beef in india, if religion was done away with completely... nobody would have reason to argue or kill.

We'd have no barriers and one global economy. What Hitler was trying to do in Germany (have one race, one religion etc...) wasn't necessarily a bad thing imo, however murdering 000's of innocent people, isn't the way to do it.

we can't live each other now... look at Iraq/America.... the Middle East... All the suicide bombers... all of those things stem from religious beliefs.

rainbow kirby

I think it should be compulsory to Junior Cert, but not to Leaving Cert. It's a few years now since I did the LC (2002), but I still remember how frustrated higher level Irish made me before I dropped to pass. For people who are stronger in maths and the sciences, having to study 3 languages (English, Irish, $continental_language) is way too much of a concentration in an area that's really not our specialty. I'd also love to know why there is STILL no computing-related subject on the LC...

JC 2K3

smemon wrote:

because i've goals and dreams.

globalisation IS a good thing. The less different we are as a nation, the more peaceful the world becomes.

Think about it... if muslims took off their blankets and spoke english... if mc donalds sold beef in india, if religion was done away with completely... nobody would have reason to argue or kill.

We'd have no barriers and one global economy. What Hitler was trying to do in Germany (have one race, one religion etc...) wasn't necessarily a bad thing imo, however murdering 000's of innocent people, isn't the way to do it.

we can't live each other now... look at Iraq/America.... the Middle East... All the suicide bombers... all of those things stem from religious beliefs.

Sure, if everyone was the same, but everyone isn't. You can't force everyone to act a certain way, it doesn't work. Also, globalisation causes greater class divides and certain companies becoming monopolies.

All those things might stem from religious beliefs, but also from globalisation itself.

Naikon

rainbow kirby wrote:

I'd also love to know why there is STILL no computing-related subject on the LC...

The closest you get to computing on the LC to computing on the LC is Logic gates/boolen algerbra + the bi-polar transistor in applied electricity.
There really should be more consideration for technical subjects, as these technology innovations are the driving force behind our economy.
The LC needs to move from the dark ages into 21st century Ireland;)


UCD has removed the third Langauge for CERTAIN courses, but you still need Irish which is a joke.
I have physics , which is beneficial whereas irish is not for example.
That requirment is actually putiing me off UCD , what with all the D4 heads lioke:p


But seriously , the institutes of tech have their priorities correct when it comes to computer science/tech courses.
You only need a pass in English or Irish for most courses, which seems justified considering the little usefullness of langauges for tech courses.

oRlyYaRly

We've got what, 2 hours of Irish classes a week in most schools? Let's just all get the f*ck over it.

sirpipalot

I had my first Irish class 12 years ago, I still can't speak it, in fact I can hardly speak any of it.

I like Irish, I'd love it if we all spoke it, but we don't

If you think people want to keep their culture let them choose to

I'd like to end this with a clever Irish line but all 12 years of Irish has taught me is how to put a car crash into every story

Oh and if anyone else uses the "it's over, forget about it" line one more time, it's not over, it'll happen to me this June and to someone else next June

Give me one reason I can't shoot down and I will promise to start studying Irish again, because Its my 7th subject and I don't care anymore

declan_lgs

We've got what, 2 hours of Irish classes a week in most schools? Let's just all get the f*ck over it.

I have THREE AND A HALF HOURS of it (35 minutes (allocated time is actually 38 minutes) * 6 class.. SIX bloody classes. I only have 5 bloody physics, accounting, technical drawing and French classes. Jesus the more I think about this the sillier it seems) per week. I don't spend that much time at study and homework combined in a week! (No time - after all I have to spend three and 1/2 hours per week in Irish class)

What would I kill for SIX study classes per week? That's (over) 40 minutes of work per day - gimme that at 9 o clock every morning and I'm setup. Who wouldn't be?

It's not that bad though, just gotta make the most of it. Irish, I amn't interested in and it's that simple. Irish class is the best fun ever! We just have good craic, it's the teacher I'd worry about....poor guy. Teaching Irish to a bunch of young adults (w/e you wanna call 'em) who don't wanna be there (Ordinary Level) - good luck.

TIOCFAIDH AR LA!

(I have 3 compolsory religion classes per week too. But since when was education the goal of that place..)

Should Irish Be Compulsory

I don't see any reason why it should be (IT'S OUR CULTURE doesn't cut it. Don't shove "culture" down other people's throats, please) - I haven't seen any half-decent posts in support of it here (I haven't looked at the entire thread).

I think it should be optional - like geography, physics, chemistry, Latin and all those other subjects we (generally) don't need in our every-day lives that we actually live rather than dream of living.

JC 2K3

I think they should make all(or a high percentage) of state Primary schools Irish speaking and make it non-compulsary for LC.

Less moaning about it from both sides that way and more people will be able to speak it well.

declan_lgs

There was a similar thread to this started in the JC section when I was doing it 2 years ago.

Why is it always Irish I wonder?

I can't see one proper reason for it to be compulsory. Being available is all good - being compulsory, how on earth is that good? Keeping the language alive? Haha, what a properous life it lives!

Davidius

It'd be fine if they'd just revise the syllabus and such.

National identity is one thing, but your career is another. It seems pretty unfair that any of the compulsory subjects should be forced upon you after the JC. Surely by then people would know if they want to keep Maths, English or Irish. In a way, all compulsory subjects seem to get in the way of higher points in the LC. Irish just seems to be one of the worst for it seeing as it offers very little in the ways of employment. Hell, how many jobs can you even get with Irish? The same applies for English. Nobody needs to know how great some writer was to get a job. :rolleyes:

So...no it shouldn't be. But they just revise the syllabus in the JC to keep more people interested. Also, it needs to be thought a lot better in Primary school.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

JC 2K3 wrote:

Sure, if everyone was the same, but everyone isn't. You can't force everyone to act a certain way, it doesn't work. Also, globalisation causes greater class divides and certain companies becoming monopolies.

Good god, be realistic, class divides are a very good thing. All societies need lower classes, otherwise the more menial jobs wont get done.

ZorbaTehZ

oRlyYaRly wrote:

We've got what, 2 hours of Irish classes a week in most schools? Let's just all get the f*ck over it.

QFT

declan_lgs

ZorbaTehZ wrote:

QFT

I'd love to see the stats on it, because like I said I'm lucky enough to get three and a half hours of Irish per week.

Asking a few random leaving certers on MSN just now, it seems only one of three is less lucky than me.

I'm thrilled to be in my school, I really am. When I'm older, I'm gonna get a job as an engineer and speak lots of Irish.

JC 2K3

2 hours, 3 1/2 hours? All the same.

GET OVER IT.

Shellie13

Rockerette wrote:

no PLEASE not another one of these "debates"

the same arguments come up every time, and it gets really dull and predictable...


ITS A DEAD LANGUAGE!

VS

WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR CULTURE ALIVE!

IMO this is a similar but seprate debate... the OP didnt ask wheather we should have to learn irish but if it should be complusory for leaving cert-although im completly for keeping the language alive i dont think making it complulsory for the leaving cert is the right way to do this.

I went into 5th year with a love of irish but im not talented at langagues (only just discovered im dyslexic) The constant drumming in of prose n poetry has totally turned me off. Whereas once i may have watched the ocassional programme on TG4 i now depise the language and the bear mention of "Dia Diabh" is enogh to send shivers down my spine!

Forcing it on us in such a backward syallabus just exectutes the langaue further! So no im toally against it beeing compulsory!

oRlyYaRly

declan_lgs wrote:

I'd love to see the stats on it, because like I said I'm lucky enough to get three and a half hours of Irish per week.

Asking a few random leaving certers on MSN just now, it seems only one of three is less lucky than me.

I'm thrilled to be in my school, I really am. When I'm older, I'm gonna get a job as an engineer and speak lots of Irish.

I kinda miscalculated.

40X5 = 200 minutes which I equated to 2 hours for some reason.

My point still stands though.

declan_lgs

oRlyYaRly wrote:

I kinda miscalculated.

40X5 = 200 minutes which I equated to 2 hours for some reason.

My point still stands though.

A leaving cert subject is what Irish is. It needs the same time as any other to get a good grade.

Through IM, JC 2K3 raised a good point, the first good point I've heard: "the reason it [the leaving cert] works so well is it just packs our minds full of diverse range of topics".

Irish is about as useful or useless as any other foreign language (arguebly more useful, arguebly less). But to get into an NUI you gotta do both Irish and another foreign language.

That's the (ultimate) problem as I see it now. Try telling me that doesn't favor students naturally good at languages while keeping a straight face.

And that 3 and 1/2 hours per week, if I could give that to Applied Maths, then I mightn't have to consider dropping it like I have to now - a subject that wouldn't be all that useless considering engineering seems to be where I'm headed. (start of 5th year btw, not 6th)

And I'd always have French, but as things are that wouldn't be enough alone to get me into the engineering course I'll probably wanna do. So I'll just have to trudge along with 3 and 1/2 hours per week with Mr. Markie, while Applied Maths' days just might be numbered.

*flings a final dart at Mary Hanafin's picture before turning in for the night*

Chillwithcian

JC 2K3 wrote:

2 hours, 3 1/2 hours? All the same.

GET OVER IT.

YOU CAN MOAN AND WHINE BUT IT'S COMPULSARY!!!!!!!! NOOOOO WAY AROUND IT!:eek:

ZorbaTehZ

declan_lgs wrote:

A leaving cert subject is what Irish is. It needs the same time as any other to get a good grade.

Through IM, JC 2K3 raised a good point, the first good point I've heard: "the reason it [the leaving cert] works so well is it just packs our minds full of diverse range of topics".

Irish is about as useful or useless as any other foreign language (arguebly more useful, arguebly less). But to get into an NUI you gotta do both Irish and another foreign language.

That's the (ultimate) problem as I see it now. Try telling me that doesn't favor students naturally good at languages while keeping a straight face.

And that 3 and 1/2 hours per week, if I could give that to Applied Maths, then I mightn't have to consider dropping it like I have to now - a subject that wouldn't be all that useless considering engineering seems to be where I'm headed. (start of 5th year btw, not 6th)

And I'd always have French, but as things are that wouldn't be enough alone to get me into the engineering course I'll probably wanna do. So I'll just have to trudge along with 3 and 1/2 hours per week with Mr. Markie, while Applied Maths' days just might be numbered.

*flings a final dart at Mary Hanafin's picture before turning in for the night*

TBH it all boils down to how much work your willing to do. I mean, who are the people that always seem to be raising this point and getting into a sissy-fit over it? The ones who arent bothered. Like has been said before, do the work, finish your LC and GET OVER IT.

declan_lgs

ZorbaTehZ wrote:

TBH it all boils down to how much work your willing to do.

Yes, and I'm not willing to work at Irish because I've no use for it and I have better things to be at.

I mean, who are the people that always seem to be raising this point and getting into a sissy-fit over it?

There sure is no shortage of us, whether it's because we're not bothered or because we're pissed that we've been learning the language for ten years and our French has out-lapped it in four.

And I do know some people who are brilliant at Irish and still think it should be optional. What exactly is the problem with making it optional?

Having to learn a foreign language plus Irish to get into the NUIs is just insane, but maybe that's just me.

Geranium

It was a huge part of our culture, but when you look at the fact that more people in Ireland speak Mandarin Chinese than do Irish, it doen't seem to be much part of our present culture, none of my family speak Irish on a daily basis, but I still consider myself Irish. Have it as an option for people who want to learn it, but don't waste money and time teaching it to people who will never use it again. The money could be put into resources for other more useful things.

AlanG

The reason Ireland has more established poets and songwriters per head than pretty much any other nation is primarily because of the Irish language. Its structure and phrasing are far more artistic and colourful than English and as a result knowing the language actually contributes greatly to an individuals command of the spoken word in any language.

While many of those here are current leaving cert students I can assure them that most will hold a different view of their language and culture once they get out and travel the world a bit. I don’t agree with the way they teach Irish in our schools but it should definitely be compulsory.