Hilltop Quad?

Sparks

sidneyreilly wrote:

Only one person was EVER asked for €50!

Who checked the standard of his/her shooting before turning him/her loose on a range?

Vegeta

sidneyreilly wrote:

Only one person was EVER asked for €50!

EDIT: I am stating this as I see it, again i don't know the owners or the range and have nothing against the place.

So damage to the range equipment occurs pretty often yet this guy is the only guy to have ever been charged. Sounds a bit unfair really

sidneyreilly

Dont know Sparks!

Vegeta, by coincidence no one else has been consistantly hitting off the board since introduction!

thelurcher

packas: why do you think it's alright to screw new members
Seriously - why should that guy give a damn if they join just to get a pistol license
We have a few members of the local gun club and the clay club that never shot a pheasant or clay for years - they're the best members to have and we all know it - they help out when asked - pay their membership - and leave all the birds for us.

Everyone seems to charge a bit extra for new members for admin costs etc. :rolleyes: but 150 v's 600 is stone mad.

Also anyone shooting dangerously in the clubs I go to would be out on their ear (even if it meant refunding their membership) - it wouldn't be used as a way to make more money out of them :rolleyes:

And again I've never heard of not being allowed bring your own ammo to a club.

Sparks

sidneyreilly wrote:

Dont know Sparks!

But there is a supervision or qualification scheme before you get turned loose in the range, right?

moby10

i was so infuriated by hilltop sports that i had to reply. i am shooting about 10 years or so and over the time been a member of various clubs. after moving to wicklow i joined hilltop, and i have to say that he was certainly very ignorant when i first met him(not good for business but i did not know of anywhere else so i joined up). i then bought a new shotgun off him and he didnt give me anything for a trade-fair enough it was a piece of s***, but he did agree a couple of hundred of certridges, but denied this when i collected the gun.(another bad business decision). as a member i was supposed to get a discount when i shot clays on non club days which i didnt, so after this i left.i run a successful business myself and all i can say is that he anything but a good business man, he probably thinks he was clever charging me more than a couple of hundred euros more than the rrp of my new gun and not giving me the cartridges he agreed as a trade and even overcharging me for the clay shooting, but he has just lost yet again another customer, and i am not alone. i could tell you so much more from friends experiences and friends of friends.his wife was an absolute gem- very friendly and i met one or two sons who were also very nice. i do understand that he is very busy with other things but it is no excuse to carry on like this.finally i recently bought a new rifle in courtlough and all i can say is that they were absolutely fantastic, and have guaranteed repeat business from me even though its a good hour and a half away.

Rew

thelurcher wrote:

Seriously - why should that guy give a damn if they join just to get a pistol license
We have a few members of the local gun club and the clay club that never shot a pheasant or clay for years - they're the best members to have and we all know it - they help out when asked - pay their membership - and leave all the birds for us.

You dont see a problem with sombody joining a club just to get a gun licence? and then never tuning up If there not coming to the club and using the firearm there where are they using it? If they have some where else to legally use it then why would they need a club?

If I didnt turn up to my club regulalrly they would contact my Super and inform him of it and thats made very clear when you join. Under the new laws my licences could be revoked.

Any irresponsible behaviour of clubs will lead to problems for all of us.

FlyOver

In fairness the "facilities" in Hilltop are less than appropriate, especially for a fee of €600. I don't care what anyone says, €600 is way too much for what you're being offered.

In regards to the mechanism being damaged by people shooting at it I mean come on! You're on a shooting range for **** sake! never heard anything so stupid.

The customer service is crap because you're basically shooting in this guys personal shooting range, it's his, he built the thing, so no wonder he's going to get ratty with someone he doesn't know or a shooter ends up putting holes in the fixtures and fittings. As a business this is unacceptable.

I always do my best to support shooting in this country but I find it hard to support Hilltop and what they are trying to achieve there when the "facilities" are way below standard and customer service is something that has to be earned. That is not the way forward.

Bananaman

Have just been reading this post and said I would throw in my two cents worth.

As a virgin to shooting I attended a Competition in Hilltop a couple of months ago.
It was a bit nuts on the day but I had a good time so I went back.

I suppose I would fall into the category someone called an interested novice.

As such I have found Pat very helpful. I agree he has a few rough edges but haven't we all. Lets face if it's not a Tupperware party you're going to.

My experience has been that as I was learning to shoot the various disciplines he generally kept an eye and gave me some pointers as to what to do which has made me a better shot. I could come out with some rubbish about a shotgun suiting me or the sights being off on a rifle - not beng able to find my arse with both hands in this area and he would tell me as much - "Who taught you to shoot you feckless eejit" I beieve was the phrase - but he was right.

Nuf said.

Sparks

FlyOver wrote:

In regards to the mechanism being damaged by people shooting at it I mean come on! You're on a shooting range for **** sake! never heard anything so stupid.

To be fair, while you wouldn't expect people to put every round through the ten ring, you would rather expect them to be able to keep every shot on the target card at least. There will always be the odd shot that doesn't stay on the card, but you don't expect more than a handful of those in an entire year. Someone who can't keep the shots on the card should not be shooting unsupervised, and possibly shouldn't be shooting fullbore or smallbore pistol at all, but moved to air pistol to work on the basics for a while.

FlyOver

Bananaman wrote:

"Who taught you to shoot you feckless eejit" I beieve was the phrase

Nuf said.

Yes, very professional.

Try Midlands or Courtlough gun clubs and you'll see a world of difference in every respect.

Sparks

Bananaman wrote:

Lets face if it's not a Tupperware party you're going to.

I wouldn't think much of this attitude to be frank. Unless you want a sport made up entirely of old men watching their sport die out in their lifetimes, you pretty much can't take that attitude. Joe and Jane Public do not know about our sport, or the rewards it brings us. Until they learn that, the sport has to be inviting and polished. Look at the success of ranges like Courtlough and Comber. Being pretty isn't something to decry in a shooting range; it's what will ensure the range's survival. You want (and I'm not describing Hilltop here, but other ranges I've been on) tough conditions, no sanitary facilities, cold and wet firing points, outdated and unmaintained target changers and equipment, a large insect population, a general feeling of rattiness and the joy of recounting all this to your mates in the pub afterwards, well, so be it. But not many beginners will pay out hundreds of euros a year for this privilege, and assuming they will is going to lead to a rather suboptimal outcome for your range and the sport in general.

edit: For just a moment, forget all you know of shooting. Every last bit. Or even better, grab someone who knows nothing about it. Then ask, which of these two looks the more inviting?
This:


or this:


Not much in the way of an actual choice for a prospective newbie, is there? And that's a hundred euro or more per year (and another shooter, more importantly) lost because of a cosmetic detail overlooked.

civdef

In regards to the mechanism being damaged by people shooting at it I mean come on! You're on a shooting range for **** sake! never heard anything so stupid.

When you get people deliberately destroying the target holders, or shooting up backstop retaining walls for a laugh, you have a problem, and the shooters in question have a bad attitude. It gets people kicked out of ranges, and it means more restrictions on ranges for everyone else.

It's the same sort of idiot who shoots at signposts.

Vegeta

Bananaman wrote:

I could come out with some rubbish about a shotgun suiting me or the sights being off on a rifle - not beng able to find my arse with both hands in this area and he would tell me as much - "Who taught you to shoot you feckless eejit" I beieve was the phrase - but he was right.

Nuf said.

just on a completely different topic here

There's a big difference between shooting with sh1te equipment and using it as an excuse and shooting with suited equipment and using it as an excuse.

any gun that doesn't fit the user or a gun which isn't zeroed are definite reasons why people shoot poorly.

you wouldn't play hurling with a 24" hurley, play soccer or football with boots 3 sizes too small. So if anyone tells you that you should be able to use any off the shelf shotgun and be accurate with it they are wrong.

thelurcher

Rew wrote:

You dont see a problem with sombody joining a club just to get a gun licence? and then never tuning up If there not coming to the club and using the firearm there where are they using it? If they have some where else to legally use it then why would they need a club?

If I didnt turn up to my club regulalrly they would contact my Super and inform him of it and thats made very clear when you join. Under the new laws my licences could be revoked.

Any irresponsible behaviour of clubs will lead to problems for all of us.

Still doesn't justify ripping them off in the first year - that's my point.

I know a few people that joined a pistol range just to get a license for one as that's what everyone was saying you had to do - they wanted the gun to use for humane dispatch.
That was NOT the case - since then I know lads that got a 9mm purely for that purpose - the gun dealer wouldn't give them the pistols when they came with their license because they weren't a member of his club :rolleyes:
They weren't long sorting him out

Sparks

thelurcher wrote:

Still doesn't justify ripping them off in the first year - that's my point.

Lots of different sports clubs have higher charges in the beginning though. It's not just the dues you're paying, but capitation as well. Mind you, most clubs request capitation in the first few years, instead of being mandatorily for the first year, and most have trial periods of membership for the curious as opposed to depending on the committed. But it's not necessarily a rip-off, is the point.

They weren't long sorting him out

What do you mean by "sort him out"?

thelurcher

They kicked him around the shop :rolleyes:

They got the super on to him.

Sparks

thelurcher wrote:

They got the super on to him.

Thanks lurcher. I was asking because that situation - pay dealer for the gun, get licence, dealer refuses to hand over the gun - might have come up before for others...

conce452

I have shot in Hilltop sevral times. In general I have found Pat to be a pleasent man, but his prices vary alot. The lighting on the pistol range is very bad. In general the standard of the ranges is very poor. I have shot on ranges in many other countries and seen far higher standards and better value.

It is cheaper for 99 % of people not to be a member and just pay each time you shoot there. (€20 each time for non members for as long as you like). His price on ammo is generally good.

People have to realise that he is running a commercial venture so expect his prices to be higher. Pat should realise that when people pay that sort of money they expect top class facalities, not something that looks that amatureish.

Can people who have not completed the IPSA competition licence and safety course shooting Pat's practical course?

I think if Pat uses his head and invests some money into the club he could do very, very well. I know alot of experienced shooters who are concerened.

Chopperdog

Can people who have not completed the IPSA competition licence and safety course shooting Pat's practical course?

I should hope not... (This applies to all ranges, not pointing at Hilltop alone)

If so it is permitting people to move and fire fullbore pistols in a populous environment without any trianing or drilling in the 'What to do if' scenarios.

Regardless of that, how sure are you of the experience of the shooter and his level of gun control and safety consciousness?

The thought of this is making my head spin.

Is this not one of the silliest ventures imaginable.eg

Hello Mr, unexperienced and untrained pistol shooter, would you like to run around this range with a fully loaded fullbore pistol while we all stand around and have a look.

If this is so, it makes a mockery of those of us who have undergone training to make this sport safer for all concerned.:mad:

Kryten

I shoot at Hilltop all the time. It is a good spot. The facilities are being improved bit by bit. Rome was'nt built in a day! More light needed on the Pistol range, I agree. But the answer is no... No inexperienced joe will be allowed anywhere near the Practical Shooting.

Vegeta

Kryte wrote:

. But the answer is no... No inexperienced joe will be allowed anywhere near the Practical Shooting.

I think they are talking about the range in general! not just the practical

EDIT: sorry misread chopper's post

Sparks

I know I was Veg, but I think the others were specifically talking about an IPSA shooting course.

Vegeta

Sparks wrote:

I know I was Veg, but I think the others were specifically talking about an IPSA shooting course.

oooh ok sorry bout that.

dathi1

I could come out with some rubbish about a shotgun suiting me or the sights being off on a rifle - not beng able to find my arse with both hands in this area and he would tell me as much - "Who taught you to shoot you feckless eejit" I beieve was the phrase - but he was right

hahaha..:D

I'm a newbie to clay shooting and I found Hilltop to be good but you can be surprised by yer man Pat. The first time I met him he was a bit rough and ready with answers to our questions. You get the impression that he doesnt really care if you do it or not. The fun really starts when you're out on the range being tutored. We told him we done courtlough too and his fist question was: Did ye miss any clays over there? to which I said yes. he then said: well ye wont be ****in missin them here..I want all targets hit ok!! Now at that I was a bit fazed but held my own...just about. After a while we got used to the off the wall banter and I must say we really enjoyed it. It takes a bit of getting used to but perhaps he should be charging more for the one liners.

conce452

Kryten wrote:

I shoot at Hilltop all the time. It is a good spot. The facilities are being improved bit by bit. Rome was'nt built in a day! More light needed on the Pistol range, I agree. But the answer is no... No inexperienced joe will be allowed anywhere near the Practical Shooting.

I know but the pistol range has been there longer than a day! The clay set up has been there years as has the rofle ranges. What standard would you expect in Germany, France etc.?? Can this sort of standard not be expected for that sort of money??

garmac

Guys, it think some people are missing the point about Hilltop slightly.
It has one huge plus point- accessibility to Joe and Josephine Public.
It can be a bit daunting to try get involved in shooting sports if you have no contacts already involved and this is where hilltop is good. Anyone can turn up, pay their money and have a go at rifle, pistol, archery or clay shooting.
I realise the subs are a bit steep but bear a few things in mind.
This facility is run and maintained by Pat and family at a huge expense. I'm sure that the insurance premium alone would make any grown man cry.
I realise Pat is in this to make money but I can think of far easier ways to make a few bob.
I agree the pistol range has all the ambiance of one of Saddams torture chambers but one more pistol range is surely better than none.
Any hooo............
*steps down off soapbox*

Sparks

Other ranges have the same degree of accessibility garmac. Some even more so.

moby10

i think its important to point out a few more points about hilltop. as a keen shooter and supporter of our sport i think that it is hughely important to attract new people and educate them about it as we all know about the bad publicity that it gets both here and abroad.if joe and josaphine public go to hilltop they can of course go and shoot clays, rifles etc.but when they have to deal with pat who i havent heard anyone really disagree about his manner, and this alone has turned many people away from him and not painted a good image of us 'shooters'.
what you need is a place like courtlough which is both welcoming and run very professionally.i know people keep saying he is just a bit grumpy until you get to know him and that it is a stressful business but it is just not good enough, as long as he keeps running the place like that he is turning people away from the sport and this is backed up by people i know personally.
(i am not related or involved with courtlough in any way:)

Rew

I hear all this talk about Courtlough yet I know sombody who let their membership lapse after they way they were treated there one day. Their .22 range isn't great, in fact its known for being in disrepair.

No busniess gets it right 100% of the time and its up to them how they want to run it. I actully think its much harder to run a pistol/rifle range then it is to run a clay range.