I am tired of the mother F***ing Lags on the Mother F***ing steal

Bandana boy

Ste05 wrote:

3 isolated Hands played by a LAG shows very little, if anything. All these show is he has a HUGE range. He probably is as terrible as we all think, i.e. 73 and T4 should not be played, but we still need more info.

EDIT: Info, which can't be really be posted on a board like this. These hands are situations where you really had to have a detailed history with the Villain.

OK couple of points

Villain was a bit nuts and he did make some really strange moves but only when it got to heads up (if he got a couple of callers he tended to go very quite) so i wouldnt say his style is awful just full of variance ( i used to play a little similar maybe not so aggressive) eg the 2nd pair against AK he made a move which while backfiring he still had 6 outs twice against me so he wins roughly 20% of the time when called he only needs for me to have AK etc roughly half the time for this to be an Ok play (again talking about the post flop not pre which is horrendous)

He kept growing his stack generally he made big money against missed aks or 2 pair against tp and he picked up a lot of uncontested pots

A mixture of card dead and multitabling 4 tables ( i normally play 2-3)led me to play a lot tighter than would be normal and when i got paid of with my earlier KK I started making a lot of money from him in uncontested pots as he called such big bets pre flop and now he needed to hit as i reraised every lead bet into me after KK

I wouldnt say Villain knows for a fact i have AA or KK as the few hands i have played i played very similar.

Now in the other guys favour i am convinced he would try make a move somewhere with 77-JJ AK Tx but i think he prob would have check raised with them as opposed to leading.
It is very hard when my pre raise (which i am happy with) makes the stacks so shallow to play a paired board against this guy

Ste05

Gholimoli wrote:

im not exactly sure what your point is here.
how do i know what?that he dosent like folding?
becuase he didnt fold in either of the last two hands .

how do i know he wouldnt push with PP pre-flop ?i dont know
but are you saying becuase he didnt push pre-flop then he dosent have a PP?

No all I'm saying is that I think you were making too many assumptions. e.g. the only hands posted were when he had 84, 73 and T4. We had no idea how he would play JJ, QQ, TT, AK, etc. etc. So we can't post good advice or proper thoughts on the hand without more info... (Which I now see has been posted)

EDIT: After reading the OP latest post, I'm more convinced this is a hand that is extremely situational and difficult to talk about, due to so many levels of thinking(i.e. last time I did this with x and he reacted by doing x, which meant xxxxxx, etc. etc.) and history involved.

Gholimoli

Ste05 wrote:

No all I'm saying is that I think you were making too many assumptions. e.g. the only hands posted were when he had 84, 73 and T4. We had no idea how he would play JJ, QQ, TT, AK, etc. etc. So we can't post good advice or proper thoughts on the hand without more info... (Which I now see has been posted)

my basic point was i like my hand against his range thats pretty much what i was trying to say all along.
becuase his range includes all one pair hand that we beat(loads of them) and all the one pair hands that we dont beat(AA,KK) and obviously TT and any 4 so i like my hand against that range becuase he could have any of them.

Ste05

Gholimoli wrote:

my basic point was i like my hand against his range thats pretty much what i was trying to say all along.
becuase his range includes all one pair hand that we beat(loads of them) and all the one pair hands that we dont beat(AA,KK) and obviously TT and any 4 so i like my hand against that range becuase he could have any of them.

And I think this is all very valid and completely correct, and exactly how a LAG can easily stack a TAG, (Bandana Boy has said that his range wouldn't have been AA or KK based on previous play, so this doesn't apply to this particular hand, but a standard Multitabling TAG, it will be AA or KK. And a good LAG (and I'm still not saying this particular villain is good - just a general remark about the LAG style) will not put another penny into the pot unless he can beat AA or KK, hence the lead out (which should have been more) commits a TAG to playing for his stack with a transparent hand with no chance of getting away from his KK/AA, if the lead out is more.

So again all I'm commenting on here is in general about how a good thinking and observant LAG player can easily stack a TAG in hands like this if they hit the flop hard enough.

Although in this specific hand he made quite alot of errors:
1: He shouldn't have called the Re-raise (it was too big) if he folds to a few of these big re-raises when he has sh1t these re-raises will reduce down to a normal level soon enough.
2: He should have lead for more than 30, to commit the OP to his hand with any Re-raise. He should have tried to get All-In on the flop or Turn and not wait til the river. It gives the OP too many chances to get away from the hand.

Having said all that, his style and previous bet amounts should and probably did effect how he played the hand. Unless he was a complete moron, but I'm still not convinced he is that. I just think he is probably break-even or slightly down and has alot of huge leaks in his LAG game and for one point he certainly seems to be far too loose even for a LAG. But FT is a tight site in general so maybe he had to play this Super Loose style to loosen up the table???

Jaysus, I'm really defending this guy too much, :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

P.S. Bandana Boy do you know what his VPiP was?

Hectorjelly

Ste its like you are talking about a different game - this guy will not be anything close to breakeven he will be broke within 1 month. Players like this are the biggest losers. Most of the time you dont notice them because they lose their buy in stupidly and leave. You only notice them when you get lucky for a while and build a big stack, which they nearly always end up losing.

Ste05

Hectorjelly wrote:

Ste its like you are talking about a different game - this guy will not be anything close to breakeven he will be broke within 1 month. Players like this are the biggest losers. Most of the time you dont notice them because they lose their buy in stupidly and leave. You only notice them when you get lucky for a while and build a big stack, which they nearly always end up losing.

LOL, ye I possibly am, it's just I've recently switched to 6-max tables and have developed a similar style (albeit much tighter - VPiP around 38 - 44, depending on the table) with a better win rate playing 1 or 2 6-max tables then grinding out 3-4 Full Tables. And alot of my profits are made from just winning alot of small and medium pots and isolated hands might make my play look like a maniac, (although there'll be no big pots when I have T4's or 73's (which even I fold PF :rolleyes:) in there without me hitting a house on the flop) but there can be method to the madness if the players Post Flop game is up to scratch. So maybe I'm just a little over protective of the LAG short handed style than I should be, but I'm sure there would be some hands that if I was called down that would look totally maniacal, but they nearly always fold...

It's also sooooo much more fun...

Bandana boy

Ste05 wrote:

P.S. Bandana Boy do you know what his VPiP was?

For this session it was 76% PFR of 40%

Ste05

Bandana boy wrote:

For this session it was 76% PFR of 40%

Ahhhh yes, completely standard...

Yes this guy is on a one way train to Brokesville, via Suckout City...

Bandana boy

Ste05 wrote:

Ahhhh yes, completely standard...

Yes this guy is on a one way train to Brokesville, via Suckout City...

Yes no doubt but I like a lot of what you have to say about Lag play
I am defo more comfortable playing a Lag role than Tag

eggie

Bandana boy wrote:

Yes no doubt but I like a lot of what you have to say about Lag play
I am defo more comfortable playing a Lag role than Tag

Would it not be more difficult playing LAG while multi-tabling? As opposed to TAG.

fuzzbox

I like HJs, line here.

I like to play small pots Vs nutjobs with marginal hands in position.

Atlas_IRL

Why would he raise it more preflop with a high PP

he would continue the same raises he has been doin with any 2 pair.

Because of his image he will prob get a call then he can take it down

these are the hands he will make a lot of his money on because he can disguise them just off his image alone


although in hindsite i like players like this on the table, they will donk there stack on you if you get a good hand and hit you will get called