Ireland vs Germany

tdv

mike65 wrote:

but they were'nt exactly sh1t-hot thsemselves.

Mike.

I think that sums up how bad we are I mean Germany arent even that good of a team & it was an easy win for them

Villain

You may have expected to lose but the team shouldn't have, Germany are not that good Wicklow.

Pigman II

Pigman II wrote:

Doyle who ran and ran and showed some good invention. Why Doylewas taken off and not Keane I don't know as I thought he was our best player on the night?

I have to agree - thought Doyle played quite well, and was always pushing forward.

bizmark

WICKL0W wrote:

Well I think we would have been happy with 1-0 after the Dutch match. Who knows Dunne could have scored and the crowd would have gone mental. We played well first 20 minutes and no doubt we were very hopeful. Very poor after that but so were Germany. We expected to be lose away from home and we did - now let's get onto the next game....with Pat Devlin on the touchline.

What? its not the loseing its the totaly inept proformance that pisses us off

WICKL0W

WICKL0W wrote:

so were German.

Ireland could have won this as there were a number of chances that they frankly made a meal of.

WICKL0W

bizmark wrote:

What? its not the loseing its the totaly inept proformance that pisses us off

I would say that Ireland have been inept for many years. Unfortunately we do not have the quality of players needed to turn a match or finish a match off. Germany were for the taking tonight and they were not able to do the job.

tdv

WICKL0W wrote:

Ireland could have won this as there were a number of chances that they frankly made a meal of.

Excpect we didnt have any chances, we had corners & free-kicks that came to nothing but we didnt have any chances

s8n

Sig says it all really.
Very disappointed.

tdv

I like Staunton he makes me laugh

Pigman II

tdv wrote:

I like Staunton he makes me laugh

Agreed. And we can do with a laugh at times like these.

Villain

Pigman II wrote:

Agreed. And we can do with a laugh at times like these.

I'd rather be laughing with him than at him though!

Macker

bizmark wrote:

We would of been beaten 3 nothing if it wasnt for shay given and posed no threat at all

It was crap

we would have lost 10-0 if we hadn't got Shay ,that's why he's in goal :rolleyes:

bizmark

Macker wrote:

we would have lost 10-0 if we hadn't got Shay ,that's why he's in goal :rolleyes:

A lesser goalkeeper troll

scojones

Lads, in fairness, relax. I think it was a great performance. If you had have told me before the game that we would lose 1 - 0 by a deflected free kick then I would have been thrilled. I think the great performance we put in in the first 20 minutes made everyone think we could win, and when we didn't everyone get pissed off.

Fact of the matter is, we lost 1 - 0, to the world number 3, in their home stadium. They were missing their back four, and our lack of creativity and skill showed that even that did not matter much. Nevertheless, we were never going to win this match, everyone knew this, and I'm very happy with the result.

Darando

sjones wrote:

Lads, in fairness, relax. I think it was a great performance. If you had have told me before the game that we would lose 1 - 0 by a deflected free kick then I would have been thrilled.

Sure 1-0 is no better than 3-0, we still lost and got no points. Saying we only lost 1-0 is one of those crap saying like its a game of two halves etc.. just utter rubbish. We have no midfield and the sooner the better we stop dodging the bullet the better. Kilbane and O'Shea just dont cut the mustard, they dont have a pass between them. Kilbane is an average wide player at best ( that old schoolboy trick of knock it pass and chase), O'Shea has been found out both for Ireland and United. Not a good enough centre half and midfielder either.

evilhomer

Really looked poor in centre-mildfield, Kilbane couldn't hit a barn door with his passing, O'Shea was trying to get in the box at the wrong times, including times when Kilbane was already in there!

We need to change things in centre mid, Reid and Miller or Ireland.
it's just not working with the donkey and the left back!

scojones

Darando wrote:

Sure 1-0 is no better than 3-0, we still lost and got no points. Saying we only lost 1-0 is one of those crap saying like its a game of two halves etc.. just utter rubbish. We have no midfield and the sooner the better we stop dodging the bullet the better. Kilbane and O'Shea just dont cut the mustard, they dont have a pass between them. Kilbane is an average wide player at best ( that old schoolboy trick of knock it pass and chase), O'Shea has been found out both for Ireland and United. Not a good enough centre half and midfielder either.

In fairness, what are you on about? How is losing 1 - 0 to Germany IN Germany the same as getting absolutely and utterly slaughtered by both Chile and Holland? Please explain that to me. In both of those games we showed no flair, no compassion, and could not put a pass together. Are you honestly saying that tonight's performance can be compared to the previous two performances we put in? Come off it.

Expecting us to get anything better than a 1 - 0 defeat IN Germany to the world number 3 team is clutching at straws. 3 games in and people are calling for Staunton's head, it's ridiculous. We don't have a strong team, and we did the best we could with what we have against the team who got the bronze in the world cup. Think about it again, if you were told before the game that we would lose 1 - 0 to Germany, would you have been annoyed or happy with that result? We were never going to win this, never. I think it is a great result.

I have always said Kilbane and O'Shea should not be on the team. O'Shea can't pass a ball to save his life, and Kilbane is basically Peter Crouch without the flukey goals. We don't have a great team and we did very well with the players we have. Get over yourselves.

The Muppet

I'm afraid lads a lot of ye are going to have to lower your expectations to more realistic levels. Ireland does not have the players to be world beaters. Football is won and lost in the middle of the field and we no longer have the quality there. What players did Stan not play tonight who would have changed the result?

As I said before the game I believe players should be played in their best positions at this level but I could also see why he played the formation he did. As sjones said above 1 0 away to Germany to a deflected goal is not a bad result.Thats the reality of the strength of our current squad.

tdv

You can talk ****e all you want about 1-0 being a decent result it would have been alot worse if it wasnt for Given. 10 , 12 years ago we pretty much had the same type of players and we were beating teams like Holland,Germany,Italy etc... & when we played these type of teams we believed we could beat them. But now people are happy with loosing to these type of teams & say oh well we tried hard but that team were just to good for us blah blah blah, its a shame & irish football in my opinoin is at an all time low & we have these overated fakes like O'shea & Carr in the squad who I belive couldnt give a **** if we win or loose.
In the last 3 matches the best chance I think we've had is that header tonite in the 93rd min of the match by Dunne that landed somwhere in the Elbe river

Darando

sjones, Im not getting on anyones back or comparing the friendly matches. I just cant understand people saying you would be "thrilled" with a 1-0 loss. I give to you that the first 25 minutes were full of closing down ,excellent work rate etc.. but after that it seemed to fade.

Not one player put his foot on the ball to try get a move going, too many miracle or killer passes trying to be played. I know it may sound like "we lost- change everything" but im not on that bandwagon. Just cant see us getting anything more from O'Shea and Kilbane in the centre of the park than they have done already - its papering over a massive crack. Why not just give one of the young guys with a few passing skills a game (and I dont mean friendlys or 10 minutes at the end.) - And please dont anyone use the "they are too inexperienced/young line - the only way they will is by playing.

The Muppet

tdv wrote:

10 , 12 years ago we pretty much had the same type of players and we were beating teams like Holland,Germany,Italy etc... & when we played these type of teams we believed we could beat them.

You must be joking if you think the current squad are a patch on that availble to us 10 to 12 years ago.

Why not just give one of the young guys with a few passing skills a game (and I dont mean friendlys or 10 minutes at the end.) - And please dont anyone use the "they are too inexperienced/young line - the only way they will is by playing.

Who?

tdv

The Muppet wrote:

You must be joking if you think the current squad are a patch on that availble to us 10 to 12 years ago.
QUOTE]

Well there quiet cleary not as good but when I say same "type of players" I mean there all playing for average premiership clubs & 1 or 2 playing for the bigger clubs just like 10 - 12 years ago & it also shows my point of how overated the likes of Carr & O'shea are.

MisterAnarchy

It was an average performance by Ireland,they showed good heart and organisation but very little creativity.
Losing 1-0 away to Germany in front of a partisan crowd is not a shambles.
Ireland havent won an away competive match against a top team in nearly 20 years ,even when we had a good squad so anyone who thought we had a chance of winning tonight knows nothing about football.
Playing Germany away at the start of the campaign was tantamount to madness ,its a strategy that worked once but has failed repeatedly since.
We have no creativity in midfield or attack ,frankly some of our players look like pub footballers,they are athletes thats about it.
Something is seriously wrong if a player cant pass the ball 10 yards or hold possession for a few seconds .

evilhomer

The Muppet wrote:

Who?

Stephen Ireland instantly springs to mind.

Douglas and Miller should come on this season too.

If we are going to admit we don't have the players in those areas, can't we try and develop them? They certainly won't get the experience on the bench or 45 minutes in a friendly with 10 other new lads, they need to be played with the rest of the first team and get to know there movement and playing styles.

Sure we will probably lose a few games, but at least we will be developing the players for the future, Thats what Holland did in the World cup, they were looking towards having a great team for Euro 2008, as much as it pains me to say this we should be looking towards building a competitive team for 2010! :eek:

Thats not to say don't have a go at qualifying for the Euro's, but certainly don't expect it.

scojones

tdv wrote:

Well there quiet cleary not as good but when I say same "type of players" I mean there all playing for average premiership clubs & 1 or 2 playing for the bigger clubs just like 10 - 12 years ago & it also shows my point of how overated the likes of Carr & O'shea are.

Exactly, that's the point I was making too. We think too highly of ourselves. I really feel that the people slating Staunton and our team for today's performance need to re-think things.

evilhomer

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/5307024.stm

stauntons post match comments

Thanx 4 The Fish

How in the name of all that is good and holy does JOS get a game ? The guy justs hoofs the ball, never got it under control, seems to be flustered at the slightest bit of pressure. It may be that he was played out of position I suppose, what is his best position ?

Thought Carr looked good, doyle worked hard shay was amazing as usual.

tdv

I dont think we have enough experience in the side either which costs us dearly
How old was our oldest player on the pitch?

evilhomer

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

How in the name of all that is good and holy does JOS get a game ? The guy justs hoofs the ball, never got it under control, seems to be flustered at the slightest bit of pressure. It may be that he was played out of position I suppose, what is his best position ?

I don't think he has a "best" position, just a load of below average ones.

You have to remember he gets made look good by the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Ferdinand, etc... at united, they put the ball right on his toe everytime and they are good enough to get his hoofed balls under control. Unfortunately not too many of our lads have that kind of ball control

Get him off the pitch I say, boo!!!

Töpher

Boo urns!

sprinkles

Pigman II wrote:

I hope Carr doesn't get another start for us btw. He's man #1 out of this lot to be put up against the wall.

I was screaming for his head after hearing the line up. He doesn't give a sh*t about the team. WHy he came out of retirement I'll never know. For me it should have been welcomed with the same enthusiasm as The Black Death coming out of retirement. He's an awful excuse for an international player and to sacrafice Finnan playing in his prefered position to accomodate him was a joke.

Secondly the subs used were akin to the subs that Kerr and McCarthy made. They made no noticeable difference to the team. Elliot for Doyle. WTF. What extra is elliot going to bring to the table. Doyle ran his socks off tonight and was our only noticeable attacking option in the 15 mins before he was taken off.

And then Duff off for McGeady. That's pointless. Take O Shea off and switch things up a little. What were we trying to do. I really don't understand.

Some of the players can be aportioned blame but Staunton has to get the brunt of it. To come up against a team who IMO are blown completely out of proportion and fizzle away like we did was horrible to watch.


We used to go down fighting. Now we lie down and accept our fate.



*EDIT*

I should probably mention that 1-0 to germany in germany is a decent enough result however and it's a big however,

the Germans were poor, their defence was a shambles, they weren't firing on all cylinders. I mean Ballack was nowhere to be seen. Ireland should have been able to grind out a result IF we had the proper structure and tactics. Our team isn't vastly different to the one that managed it against France.

To accept that that performace and result was acceptable would be to deny what we saw tonight. IMO we can and should do alot better!

Andrew 83

I felt, as everyone seems to, that we were very good for the first 20 mins or so. We were closing them down all over the pitch but that seemed to stop after that.

I thought the defence were broadly speaking excellent. I thought if anything Dunne had perhaps the worst game out fo them. O'Brien was unlucky on the free and only made one other mistake near the end, I thought he was very good. Carr was also excellent, didn't make any mistakes that I could see and played like he did years ago.

Doyle was very good and held onto the ball very well.

The problem though was, as has been said, no attacking threat at all. There was no creativity, McGeady should have been brought on 10-15 mins earlier so he could have had a chance to do something. Maybe Ireland or Andy Reid could offer something more in that department. The centre midfield just acted as auxiliary defensive cover and never pushed on at all or tried to link up with attack.

KdjaCL

Well done ireland beaten by the better team by a scabby goal .


kdjac
]

Rollo Tamasi

Andrew 83 wrote:

O'Brien was unlucky on the free and only made one other mistake near the end, I thought he was very good. Carr was also excellent, didn't make any mistakes that I could see and played like he did years ago.

O Brien's distrubtion is woefull. Failled long ball after long ball from the back to two average heighted forwards, you'd swear he was Beckham wearing No4.

Carr is stink too.



Duff - A.Reid - S.Reid - McGeady

Granted Andy is out of form but Miller/Douglas/Ireland aren't starting games either at the moment. We need a partner for S.Reid in the centre and a left back. I'd like to see Maybury in the next squad.

Get JOS, Kilbane and Carr off the park altogether.

finnpark

Andy O'Brien is crap.

Steven Carr is useless.

Finnan is out of position.

The midfield is dire. Reid shouldn't be in the squad nevermind in Roy Keane's old position.

Robbie Keane needs to stop boozing cause I bearly noticed he was there until he got the goal.

Doyle has potential. Duff is good at attacking although not as good as before.

Kerr and McCarthy has destroyed the squad by continously including old castoffs such as Lee Carsely, Graham Kavanagh etc. Time for youg blood and time the fai set a youth academy in Dublin instead of pussy footing around. Our underage talent is been destroyed by UK teams.

BTW Kevin Kilbane wouldnt be good enough to make it onto some LOI teams.

Chucky the tree

finnpark wrote:

.

The midfield is dire. Reid shouldn't be in the squad nevermind in Roy Keane's old position.

You do know that Reid was playing right wing last night?

LunaC

Was a decent match.

A good performance from Ireland apart from a few spells where we were all over the place at the back.

The Germans were getting frustrated at times hence the yellow cards.

My man of the match goes to Given.

And as for the goal, pfffft jammy gits.

Chucky the tree

evilhomer wrote:

Stephen Ireland instantly springs to mind.

Douglas and Miller should come on this season too.

I dont undrstand why people are claiming these players are better.


Miller - plays at a championship team, couldnt cut it at united. O'shea could

Douglas - another championship player who did make it at a premiership team

Ireland - cant get into the city team

Midfield should be Reid and Kavanagh. At least Kavangh isnt afraid of th ball. He also did well in the premiership. Although hes at championship team now.

Kilbane isnt a CM, never will be. JOS is afraid of the ball. Both of them are muck, but there still better then everyone else.

Its time people realised were a **** team. The Wales result was promising, hopefully the Czechs will be poor. Slovenia will be tough. There a decent team. Wales is like a Derby match which are always hard.

If we came third i think it would be a succesful campaign.

tdv

Is it the top 2 teams who go straight threw this time without the play-offs?

Chucky the tree

yep.

finnpark

Chucky the tree wrote:

You do know that Reid was playing right wing last night?

Yes he was last night which adds to the farce. One of these days Shay Given will be up front with Duff in goals. :eek:

[Jackass]

Desperatly unlucky with the goal. The only thing that could have ever beaten Shay Given last night was a freak goal...and they got it, with a poorly struck free kick on its way to the corner flag.

All in all, it really showed up Stans lack of ideas and experience. Especially when one goal down, you expect a captain and manager to keep their cool and be an example to the team through leadership, imagination and discipline. Stan failed on all counts and even got himself sent off.

With a proper manager with tactical awareness and capable of picking his best 11 we do have a very good side and very good prospects. O'Shea has no place in the current squad or team...if you don't make a player play his way into the team, you get premformances like that.

The man has never been able to impose himself on a game, he's weak in the tackle, he hides and backs off players, his passing, vision and distribution is very poor for a midfield player and is not capable of playing a central role...he just dosen't have the ability. His most compitent position is at full back, where he is very average and he should not be in the side. At best have him as cover for full back, but he would be behind Finnan, Carr and Harte in my book.

Kilbane is past it as an international player. He did have some good early preformances in the last campaign at CM, but he cant play that position. Again, like O'Shea, he isn't capable of imposing himself in that position to any extent, and out wide he has no trickery or skill at beating players...his only move is the push and shove....punt the ball forward past the player and try to muslce him off the ball in the race and hit a first time cross. Unfortunatly, this is well recognised by other teams now, it hasn't worked since 2002 and he dosen't have the pace to do it either (see how it worked for Alan O'Brien when he came on as he steamed past his man at twice the pace?)

Other than those two, I think Stan picked the right team...but even then, he got the tactics completely wrong. He moved our best centre mid player onto the wing, played a winger and full back in centre mid and moved our best full back onto his weaker side.

Tactics wise he dropped one of our most creative players in McGeady to the bench and left it very late to introduce him. No question he should have started on the right and this also would have allowed for Duff to spend more time on the left as he drifted across quite a bit, but McGeady is a versatile winger too and both players are good at switching wings as seems to be a tactic borrowed by Staunton from Kerr when we had two left wings in the side with Andy Reid and they swopped around several times during matches.

I rate Stephen Reid very well in centre midfield in a holding role...I think he gets stuck in very well, his distribution is superb, he's good at getting forward, he has a lethal long range shot ala Lampard or Gerrard (not saying he's better or worse, just illustrating a type of midfield player) and he can do the bread and butter too...no question where he should have started.

This leaves you an option with the other centre midfield position, where you can look for a creative play maker such as Stephen Ireland, or you can have another holding midfielder in there to deal with the threat from the German centre midfield and play more down the flanks. As we have two full-backs who are good going forward and two very good and creative wingers in Duff and McGeady, for this game the correct option would be another holding player in centre mid.

Options there are Carsley and Kavanagh. I would personally go with Carsley (who isn't even in the squad) but Kavanagh is also good in that position and had a very good season in the Premiership playing that role week in week out (unlike O'Shea and Kilbane) as does Carsley, both very effectively too.

The team should have been for that game imo:

---

Given

---

--Carr

---

O'Brien

---

Dunne----Finnan

---

Reid

---

Carsley

---

--McGeady

---

Duff--

---

Doyle

---

Keane

---

This leaves options on the bench to bring on Harte at left back and switch Finnan to the right if, as was the case, we were one nil down and were winning Free kicks around the area and a good few corners too, he's always a good atacking option and his defensive game has improved a lot since his disastor at 2002 WC.

Kavanagh to come in to Midfield if we're holding on to the point with about 15 to go, (which wasn't the case) in place of Carsley or Reid.

Ireland to come on if we're chasing the game in place of Carsley to give better distribution from Midfield and play more through the centre to give the wings better options to roam and get in better attacking positions.

Alan O'Brien to come on and freshen up the wing and inject a bit more pace. Could come on for either McGeady or Duff and we would still be left with two very good wingers on the pitch.

Elliot (for Keane) or Morrison (for Doyle) if one of the strikers is having a poor game or is looking very tired, while still keeping the balance upfront of a pacey striker and a target man who can play at his feet too. *ahem*Doherty*ahem*. Although try to avoid subbing either striker as any replacement will drop the quality of strikers we have on the pitch.

Those would be the only real tactical changes I would see as worth while.

I don't claim to be any expert, but at least I'm as qualified as Stan...I've never managed a team either, and that's how I think it should have been done.

He started with the wrong team, the right players he did pick he played them in the wrong positions, he made poor tactical changes, but the substitutions he did get right, he took off the wrong player and he left everything too late. And getting sent to the stands before any substitutions were made could have helped in communication, decision making and tactical reshaping.

STAN OUT.

GuanYin

Stan showed himself up somewhat.

Biggest issues were the substitutons. They were tactically inept. In the case of Doyle/Elliot they were pointless. What could Elliot add that Doyle didn't have. Why take off a creative player for another (Duff/McGeady) when you're one nil down. At the stage O'Brien came on, what was the guy expected to do.

The point is, if you losing and you sub one layer for another of the same type, the question begs asking, why wasn't the subbed player on to start if he's going to make a positive difference?

Gonna be a long long campaign

Mr. Presentable

Give Stan the term of his contract. It's easy to sit in the stands and say he should have done this, that, but you never have to be tested, he does. The FAI has, in their wisdom, for better or worse, selected Stan as the best for the job at this point. If you want to impeach you need to look higher than the manager.

Seriously, look at the shide he has to work with...........

LostinBlanch

psi wrote:

Stan showed himself up somewhat.

Biggest issues were the substitutons. They were tactically inept. In the case of Doyle/Elliot they were pointless. What could Elliot add that Doyle didn't have. Why take off a creative player for another (Duff/McGeady) when you're one nil down. At the stage O'Brien came on, what was the guy expected to do.

The point is, if you losing and you sub one layer for another of the same type, the question begs asking, why wasn't the subbed player on to start if he's going to make a positive difference?

(

You being paranormal mod should have a headstart on that question. :rolleyes:

LostinBlanch

Seriously though what did the FAI expect from a Wallsall reserve team coach? :cool:

zAbbo

Subs should been made at the 60minute mark, Reid should be in the centre, John O'Shea is hopeless, lazy and a Peter Kay-look-a-like.

I agree with everything Nick has said, no point running over it again.

redspider

Nick wrote:

All in all, it really showed up Stans lack of ideas and experience.
With a proper manager with tactical awareness and capable of picking his best 11 we do have a very good side and very good prospects.
O'Shea has no place in the current squad or team...
Kilbane is past it as an international player.
Other than those two, I think Stan picked the right team...
McGeady
I rate Stephen Reid very well in centre midfield in a holding role...
another holding player in centre mid . I would personally go with Carsley
STAN OUT.

I agree with some of your sentiment, but I think you are jumping to an illusionary conclusion by thinking that changing a couple of players (O'Shea and Kilbane) with another two (McGeady and Carsley) will turn us into a very good side with good prospects.

I agree whole-heartedly with you that Kilbane is not good enough for us right now. He did exceptionally well as a CM for Everton a few years ago, but he is not good enough now. Reid, also a converted winger, is still doing it for Blackburn in CM and should have been put in there. Staunton fell into the trap perhaps of trying to accomodate the names, the so-called best players and juggled his team accordingly. Playing Finnan at LB to accomodate Carr, etc. But had he put O'Shea at LB we would have been just as vulnerable at the back, although there is a point that O'Shea may have ben able to support Duff better going forward. Swings and roundabouts, you lose and gain.

Carsley is no better than O'Shea, indeed many would probably rate him as worse. I think a motivated O'Shea could be a lot better. he takes these games, and indee football at Man Utd, perhaps too relaxed.

Kavanagh likewise would be no addition, lest we forget how bad he was in the recent Dutch match. I like McGeady's pace, invention, but he is no Robinho and is still a young head so he's not linking up well with others.

All in all, I dont think that with your suggested changes that the result would have been any different.

In terms of bringing on Elliot for Doyle, sometimes a fresh pair of legs in the same position can make a difference. It doesnt always have to be a case of changing the shape or tactics when bringing on a sub. Duff was doing some huffing and puffing but making very little headway. He needs to think more of one two's and the like when bottled up and facing 3 rather than trying to jink through them. I would probably have kept him on just in case. Although I wasn't keeping a close enough eye on him to note whether he lacked match fitness/sharpness and indeed needed a rest.

Overall, I dont think its a case of Stan Out. Give him the two years at least in this campaign and lets see what the team do.

So, we lost against Germany, 1-0, away, big deal. Its far from the end of the world and those, like in Dunphy's camp, that are calling for Stan's head are misguided.

Redspider

HashSlinging

IMO an overall big improvement, it was a game of two sides and I think Ireland frustrated Germany more than people are giving them credit for, at times there was a great movement between the players and on a whole I think for the first competitive game I think we done rather well, the Germans missed a couple of sitters and shay made a nice few saves but it was a high tempo game and in the end it was the Germans who scored the lucky goal.

Its a very good sign of things to come, and proves that the competitive sprit is back in the team.

GadgetFiend

anywhere i could get highlights to view online?

rte claims to have it but the stream isnt working

just back from electric picnic so didnt watch the match, to be honest it was being shown but i didnt go.. thought we'd get a drubbing

from what it sounds like, we almost did but for shay

cheers