Ireland squad vs Holland

Chucky the tree

typical El fans, whinge whinge and then whinge some more for good measure.

Before you lads where complaining how it was a disgrace how Jayo only gotten a token cap from kerr with 2 minutes to go. You all said that they shouldnt even bother picking him if thats how they do it. Well now they havnt picked him you's are still coming out and moaning.

Jason byrne and the other 2 were always going to be the token picks. none of them have a chance in hell of making the first 11, or even being considered as a sub in a qualifier.

Jason byrne better then morrison? Your having a laugh right? Jason never performed outside of an amateur league.

KdjaCL

Chucky the tree wrote:

typical El fans, whinge whinge and then whinge some more for good measure.

So having seen Gamble in the CL and dunno if you have the magical 20 minutes of O Brien playing, do you not think there may be some justificationin the whinging (about him not Byrne, Byrne shouldnt even be ball boy)?


kdjac

Chucky the tree

I have no problem people coming on and saying they are disappointed in the selections and they feel he had a mistake he leaving out some players. However some of the reactions have been incredible. Saying that i hope we lose every match because of it, or there going to give up supporting Ireland is crazy.

Going by our midfielder problems gamble should be there ahead of byrne.

Agree on the ball boy, it would take him about 5 attempts at throwing the ball before it actually reached the player taking the corner/throw in.

gustavo

Chucky the tree wrote:

Agree on the ball boy, it would take him about 5 attempts at throwing the ball before it actually reached the player taking the corner/throw in.

Why would you say that ?

Chucky the tree wrote:

Jason never performed outside of an amateur league.

If you are going to enter into debate at least be factually correct

eirebhoy

KdjaC wrote:

So having seen Gamble in the CL and dunno if you have the magical 20 minutes of O Brien playing, do you not think there may be some justificationin the whinging (about him not Byrne, Byrne shouldnt even be ball boy)?


kdjac

Gamble certainly deserves a place in the squad over O'Brien and I was delighted to see him in the Chile squad. O'Brien is in there because of Pat Devlin no matter what Staunton is saying. He may say he got good reports from the Irish at Newcastle but if Pat Devlin didn't represent O'Brien then he would never have been watched in the 1st place. O'Brien wasn't deemed good enough for the U21s so I don't see how he can be good enough for the senior squad.

Chucky the tree

gustavo wrote:

Why would you say that ?

If you are going to enter into debate at least be factually correct

He just seems to need a few chances before he actually scores.


Ok, where was he before he played for Bray?

Slash/ED

eirebhoy wrote:

Aye, I'm just saying Byrne isn't good enough to be facing the likes of Germany or Slovakia.

And Terry Dixon et al are? Super.

I agree with Einstürzende, the "Irish" team can forget about my support too. And it's not just this, this is just one of many reasons why. I think all hope for me was lost when England u20 international Jon Macken was called up and capped, despite being a useless inept former England international. Macken hasn't kicked a ball with any level of competency in years, yet was given a decent chance in Lansdowne Road and called into squads afterwards despite doing nothing to merit it. Byrne, one of our own, was treated like an idiot.

Jason Byrne isn't Maradona, but for the love of god look at the alternatives. The great hope of Irish football, Doyle, is a man who was consistently outpreformed and outscored by Byrne in the same league as him. Murphy didn't even come onto the feckin' radar and I've seen people throw his name around. We have two complete and utter out and out reserve players in the squad, and Alan Lee who's been given chances and already proven himself, to be useless. Elliot is a genuine player but one who may never play consistently without injury. You talk about the level he plays at. The level he plays at! When we're calling up f-cking reserve players!

And there's numerous other reasons. I don't so much want to see the team get hammered as to see it suffer an injury crisis and see how far Stauntons outrageous squad selections get him.

As for the above post, he started at Bray, and for players who need a few chances to score one goal see...well, every striker we have. Including Keane for that matter, though he has improved in that regard.

The_B_Man

Regardless of who did/didn't get called up, it seems out best team MAY be:

---

Given

---

Finnan

---

Dunne

---

O Brien

---

Harte

XXXXX

---

Reid

---

YYYYYY

---

Duff

---

ZZZZZZ

---

Keane

---

XXXXXX - thinkin maybe McGeady. alternate: none without a reshuffle
YYYYYY - We have nobody as a preferred palyer there. So Kavo? Alternate: Killer
ZZZZZZ - Dr. Morrison...tho he's back down in the Championship so will he get rusty? Alternate: Doyle

Regardless of who everyone is arguin should been called up, they still woulda only been on the subs bench, so it makes no diff.

Jivin Turkey

Why are people moaning at the inclusion of Dixon or O'Brien? They are token selections in order to give these young guys, who the manager obviously feels have big futures ahead of them, experience of the first team set up. It's a friendly squad of 24, do you think these guys have a hope of getting near the competitive squads?

As regards the Byrne debate, whether he deserves to be included ahead of people that have been picked is not really the issue. There are too many strikers in the squad as it is, and I'd expect the current number to be trimmed by two for the competitive games with Keane, Doyle, Morrison and Elliot remaining. What's the point in including Byrne if he isn't in the managers plans for the upcoming games? And I'm sure if he was included but didn't get a game we would get the same people bleating about a "token inclusion" in an attempt to make it look like SS has an interest in the Eircom Leauge. Grow up lads.

Lee has not been given a chance yet by Staunton so maybe he wants a look at him before deciding? Hence his inclusion I would imagine.

One last thing, for the people who only have a "passing interest" in the national team anyway, why are you getting your knickers in a twist that Byrne has not been included, sure by your own admission, what do you care?

BaZmO*

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Why are people moaning at the inclusion of Dixon or O'Brien? They are token selections in order to give these young guys, who the manager obviously feels have big futures ahead of them, experience of the first team set up. It's a friendly squad of 24, do you think these guys have a hope of getting near the competitive squads?

As regards the Byrne debate, whether he deserves to be included ahead of people that have been picked is not really the issue. There are too many strikers in the squad as it is, and I'd expect the current number to be trimmed by two for the competitive games with Keane, Doyle, Morrison and Elliot remaining. What's the point in including Byrne if he isn't in the managers plans for the upcoming games? And I'm sure if he was included but didn't get a game we would get the same people bleating about a "token inclusion" in an attempt to make it look like SS has an interest in the Eircom Leauge. Grow up lads.

Lee has not been given a chance yet by Staunton so maybe he wants a look at him before deciding? Hence his inclusion I would imagine.

One last thing, for the people who only have a "passing interest" in the national team anyway, why are you getting your knickers in a twist that Byrne has not been included, sure by your own admission, what do you care?

Finally some sense!

Slash/ED wrote:

I agree with Einstürzende, the "Irish" team can forget about my support too

See you when the weather gets better then.. :rolleyes:

tetsujin1979

eirebhoy wrote:

O'Brien wasn't deemed good enough for the U21s so I don't see how he can be good enough for the senior squad.

No offence EB, but Don Givens is hardly the greatest judge of a player, now is he??

eirebhoy

Aye, fair point.

eirebhoy

Given and Ireland are ruled out through injury. Keane missed Spurs' game today with injury and Rooney went off after 10 minutes of a reserve game a couple of days ago.

McGeady kept up his good form getting MOTM for Celtic today. He hit the post and set up the 2nd goal. Here's a dodgy clip of it:
http://celticfan.com/goal2.wmv

12 months ago he'd have probably taken the shot in that situation. I've never seen a player improve so much within a couple of years (bar improvements in confidence, etc.).

aidan24326

EL fans can moan all they like about Byrne's exclusion but fact is he plays in a substandard league and players who ply their weekly trade against the likes of Bray Wanderers and Waterford United will never be picked on a regular basis at international level. Granted he isn't much worse than one or two others that are there but if he was up to this level he'd be playing in England. Even the Nationwide Championship (div.1) is a significantly higher standard than League of Ireland, that's just the fact of the matter.

gosplan

Einst&#252 wrote: »

I'd rather get behind Bohs than that joke of a team. Ridiculous, its as if he wants to not score goals.

So we're assuming that if you were manager you'd pack the front with EL strikers????

Is that just the most paranoid deluded post ever?

Do you not think that sense would say Keane plus Morisson/Elliot/Doyle so inclusion or not, Byrnes not getting a look in.

Töpher

gosplan wrote:

So we're assuming that if you were manager you'd pack the front with EL strikers????

Is that just the most paranoid deluded post ever?

Do you not think that sense would say Keane plus Morisson/Elliot/Doyle so inclusion or not, Byrnes not getting a look in.

Hmmm... where'd that come from? I'd have Byrne there as a sub, a proven goalscorer on a fine run of form, who played brilliantly against Chilie. Ah sure, we've some 16 year old instead, so its alright. By your same logic, why do 2 players (Lee/Dixon) get calls up if the front line is too packed to include 1 proven goalscoreras backup? Do they eat less, are they cheaper to keep or something?

But sure, you don't agree with me - aren't we all entitled to opinions now?, so make up something else and start throwing around accusations of paranoia and delusion. Fair play.

I think it was a joke, and the straw that broke the horses back so to speak as far as I'm concerned. I'm entitled to do as I wish, and if that is not caring (I said in an earlier post that wishing major defeats was an initial overreaction - although I won't shed an ounce of worry if Team Ireland Inc. England Rejects do get humiliated) then so be it.

Töpher

http://www.shelbournefc.ie/news.php?id=450 wrote:

Yesterday (Saturday 12th August), Jason Byrne was called up to the International Squad as Steve Staunton looked to add the Shelbourne striker and leading Eircom League scorer to the squad for the upcoming friendly versus Holland.

Unfortunately Jason Byrne picked up a knock in Friday's 2-2 draw with Cork City and was unable to take his place in the Irish Squad. Disappointment for Byrne not to be able to accept the call up but if he continues to play as he has over the past weeks and months, another callup can't be too far away.

Must say, made me laugh, given the arguing from both sides of the camp on here.

Pigman II

So what happened to Stan and the granny rule? I don't see anyone in there except 16 year old Terry Dixon?

I thought he'd have a few establised ringers in by now but that doesn't seem to be happening.

Charlton had Aldridge and Houghton in by game #1!

gosplan

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Hmmm... where'd that come from? I'd have Byrne there as a sub, a proven goalscorer on a fine run of form, who played brilliantly against Chilie. Ah sure, we've some 16 year old instead, so its alright. By your same logic, why do 2 players (Lee/Dixon) get calls up if the front line is too packed to include 1 proven goalscoreras backup? Do they eat less, are they cheaper to keep or something?

But sure, you don't agree with me - aren't we all entitled to opinions now?, so make up something else and start throwing around accusations of paranoia and delusion. Fair play.

I think it was a joke, and the straw that broke the horses back so to speak as far as I'm concerned. I'm entitled to do as I wish, and if that is not caring (I said in an earlier post that wishing major defeats was an initial overreaction - although I won't shed an ounce of worry if Team Ireland Inc. England Rejects do get humiliated) then so be it.

This I can understand. However saying that not picking Byrne(who we're pretty unanimous wouldn't start anyway) is like 'not wanting to score' is a bit of a shels statment, hence the paranoid delusion statment. Not picking Robbie Keane would be not wanting to score, not picking Byrne is a choice the coach made that only Byrne fans view as disasterous.

I won't go into the proven goalscorer thing. There are lots of proven goalscorers at lots of different levels.

The_B_Man

who'd win in a full competitive match between Spurs abnd Shels? between any Irish stikers team and shels? answer is not shels. if i was the coach , i'd pick the player from the best team. just coz sum of u hav a hard on for that byrne fella, doesnt mean we all wanna see him play, especially instead of more establsihed players who are playing for better teams. seems a bit of a EL bias goin on. i know u like a good argument, but at least have basis for it, in terms of a proper comparison of "stats".

Vokes

The_B_Man wrote:

who'd win in a full competitive match between Spurs abnd Shels? between any Irish stikers team and shels? answer is not shels. if i was the coach , i'd pick the player from the best team.

You'd only pick players (regardless of talent) if he played for the better teams?

The_B_Man

why would a **** player play for a **** team?

MrJoeSoap

The_B_Man wrote:

why would a **** player play for a **** team?

Are you implying that Jason Byrne is a **** player and Shels are a **** team or am I missing something?

Oh, and by the way...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/t/tottenham_hotspur/2821085.stm

Big Nelly

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Are you implying that Jason Byrne is a **** player and Shels are a **** team or am I missing something?

Oh, and by the way...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/t/tottenham_hotspur/2821085.stm

Not defending the above comments but it was a few season ago when Bohs did that, sure the big ginger scored! is he still with Norwich?? havent seen him in the squad in a few years thank God

Going to miss the Ireland game because in the Sky on the way to bangkok, cant believe they would play a game that i cant see!! complaint to the FAI

The_B_Man

i'm sayin, many other irish players got picked up by bigger clubs.

the way ur goin on its liek ur sayin that if he played against holland he'd nearly be gettin a hat-trick or sumtin!

fact is, if stan wanted him in the team, he'd be in the team, regardless of any conspiracies you may believe exist.

MrJoeSoap

The_B_Man wrote:

fact is, if stan wanted him in the team, he'd be in the team, regardless of any conspiracies you may believe exist.

Well Stan wanted him in the squad, but he's injured. Thats a fact.

Big Nelly wrote:

Going to miss the Ireland game because in the Sky on the way to bangkok, cant believe they would play a game that i cant see!! complaint to the FAI

Thats disgusting, I'd get onto the papers! I'm just back from there by the way, class country but I wouldn't spend too long in Bangkok, its smog central!

hoolio

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Are you implying that Jason Byrne is a **** player and Shels are a **** team or am I missing something?

on an international scale, yes he is and yes they are.


i'm quite confused at how worked up EL fans get about this ever few squads. the same argument has been had about glen crowe, wes hoolihan and a few others. barring catastrophic accidents sidelining 5 or 6 players there is zero chance jason byrne will ever represent ireland competively, and rightly so.

why are dixon, o'brien etc in the squad? its been said - to develop them, give them a taste of international football, the set up and the way things work. they might play competitively for us one day. on pure quality no they shouldnt be there but a squad shouldnt necessarily be the 25 best players, it should be the 25 right players. there is benefit to dixon/o brien being in the squad. i can't see how the same could be said for byrne.

the likes of kevin doyle earned his place by proving himself, moving up several levels of quality, and proving himself again. the eircom league isnt up to the standard lads, i'm sorry, but it's true. last week it was crowe, this week its byrne. ho hum.

now im sure im gonig to be called small minded, uninformed, english, an idiot and all the rest of it. honestly,i don't really care about the El one way or the other, but i shudder to think of El players in the euro qualifiers.

edit: fixed v. dodgy spelling

MrJoeSoap

hoolio wrote:

now im sure im gonig to be called small minded, uninformed, english, and idiot and all the rest of it. honestly,i don't really care about the El one way or the other, but i shudder to think of El players in the euro qualifiers.

Oh yes, God forbid the likes of Daryl Murphy or Kevin Doyle might play for Ireland.

hoolio wrote:

the likes of kevin doyle earned his place by proving himself

And has Terry Dixon done this too? Why pick Dixon ahead of Stokes, who has a far better record and reputation than Dixon?

KdjaCL

hoolio wrote:

now im sure im gonig to be called small minded, uninformed, english, and idiot and all the rest of it. honestly,i don't really care about the El one way or the other, but i shudder to think of El players in the euro qualifiers.

But cheer on English championship players

Only El fans whinging about Byrne are Shels fans, tbh after seing Derry again theres at least 3 there who are better than whats going to play on wednesday.



kdjac

MrJoeSoap

KdjaC wrote:

after seing Derry again theres at least 3 there who are better than whats going to play on wednesday.

Pity most of them are Northern Irish. Farren could be due a shout, but hasn't played a great deal this season.

hoolio

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Oh yes, God forbid the likes of Daryl Murphy or Kevin Doyle might play for Ireland.

Actually i was reffering to players judged solely on EL performances.

And I said Doyle should be in because he was a good EL player and has moved up (quite a bit) to a higher standard of soccer and has proved himself again, to the extent that he is now one of the most provenly effective irish forwards at highest levels we have players at.

Also tbh i don't want Daryl Murphy anywhere near the irish squad.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

And has Terry Dixon done this too? Why pick Dixon ahead of Stokes, who has a far better record and reputation than Dixon?

Did you actually read my post? Firstly,like i said, and others have said before. Dixon is NOT there because of talent or quality, but for development and experience. Secondly, the Stokes question is a fair point, and one that i can't give you a better answer then that Staunton wanted Dixon in and not Stokes. Why? You'd have to ask him.

KdjaC wrote:

But cheer on English championship players

Tbh i'm not sure whether you mean you don't like the idea of cheering on english born players, or the idea of players playing in the championship, and not higher in the Premiership. If it's the latter then thats just a sign of the lack of Irish depth.

I'm guessing its the former, and honestly, neither you nor I can really say how much these players care about the cause, but if they are willing to give 100% to the team on every appearance,they qualify and they want to play then i have nothing against them playing for us if they are good enough. It's a bit wierd how people will never complain about McGeady playing for us, but Clinton is a mercenary apparently, same difference really.

It's not just an Irish phenomenon either; Vieira - Sengalese. Hargreaves - Canadian, Podolski - Polish, Deco/Senna - Brazilian, etc

It's the English leagues/teams are for the most part responsible for the nurturing and development of Irish youth into professional players i think it's niave to think that Keane/Duff are really any more the product of Ireland then Clinton. All of them learned their trade from a young age at English clubs, trained by English coaches and in the English game. Irish blood/talent brought out by England. The irish team would be at a pathetic level were it not for England, and to be honest it's not like we play a team full of English players. Clinton Morrison and Andy O'Brien are the only ones that play any way regularily. (McGeady will in the future obviously). People should relax, the irish team is mostly guys from ireland, with a few exceptions, a phenomenon not unusual in modern soccer.

KdjaCL

hoolio wrote:

Tbh i'm not sure whether you mean you don't like the idea of cheering on english born players, or the idea of players playing in the championship, and not higher in the Premiership. If it's the latter then thats just a sign of the lack of Irish depth.


It's not just an Irish phenomenon either; Vieira - Sengalese. Hargreaves - Canadian, Podolski - Polish, Deco/Senna - Brazilian, etc

I mean Clinton Morrison, hes English and is crap no 2 ways about it and he is our 1st choice striker. There are more crap championship england b team players who signed up for ireland to get a transfer or whatever.

You picked a bad few to highlight as examples as they all lived in the countries they play for before they became pro footballers. Our eEnglish players had never even been to this country, yet you would prefer to cheer on **** english players than **** irish players in the false hope of continuing to punch above our weight in the international football.

You do realise we are 4th seed in the Euro qualifiers for a reason.... I would rather be seeded 4th due to crap irish players than 4th seed due to crap english players.

kdjac

hoolio

Well i'd argue that Morrison isn't quite that bad. He has his uses, and is still better then Byrne et al. He's chosen to play for Ireland, so if he is good enough then he should play, if not he shouldn't. Personally i wouldn't start him, but thats the managers call.


So if Joseph Ndo (as an example) had never played for Cameroon and decided to play for Ireland that would somehow piss you off less then Morrison,McGeady do now? Or if they themselves played for Shels if wouldn't be so bad? Surely a '**** english player' is a '**** english player' no matter what country he lives in no?

yet you would prefer to cheer on **** english players than **** irish players

Eh, no. I cheer on the irish team, which happens to include a few players born in other countries. I find it hard to see the big problem tbh.


I personally believe the grandparent rule should be at least changed to a parent rule, which would rule out Morrison for example. But as things stand i don't get too worked up about someone qualifiying through their grandparent, as long as they are going to give their best, and most would agree that the current english born irish regulars do.

The idea of born and bred irishmen,plying their trade at home and gonig to represent their country is a nice thought, but not going to happen in the near future, and not with the domestic game in its current form.

MrJoeSoap

hoolio wrote:

So if Joseph Ndo (as an example) had never played for Cameroon and decided to play for Ireland that would somehow piss you off less then Morrison,McGeady do now?

Ndo for Ireland... we can but dream.

KdjaCL

hoolio wrote:

I personally believe the grandparent rule should be at least changed to a parent rule, which would rule out Morrison for example.

I think it should be changed to the "You much have played Schoolboy football in the country you play for" to reflect the todays world.

That would be fair and just and ensure the players have at least been to their "national" country at least once before. Instead of choosing crap english players.

The idea of born and bred irishmen,plying their trade at home and gonig to represent their country is a nice thought, but not going to happen in the near future, and not with the domestic game in its current form

Odd quote bearing in mind its quite possible for an Irish team to get futher in the UEFA cup than 4 premiership teams,actually very very possible. Would that mean if they did make it to the group and some Brilliant!! Top level English teams didnt, that from today till then, the current form would somehow have got better?


kdjac

KdjaCL

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Ndo for Ireland... we can but dream.

**** that Ndo for Pats


kdjac

MrJoeSoap

KdjaC wrote:

**** that Ndo for Pats


kdjac

Can you afford him yet?

KdjaCL

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Can you afford him yet?

Oh i think if we could squeeze it out of our new buddy, shame hes our buddy and not yours with his company name you would think he would be your buddy

Never know he may be a free agent soon......


kdjac

hoolio

Ok just lost quite the lengthy post i typed, which makes me want to do nasty things to cute furry animals, but anyway the gist:

Not sure about the schoolboy football rule KdjaC, would make for some very murky waters, say if a 9 year old moved from ireland to england and became pele and wanted to play for us, but couldnt. I might favour making a certain number of caps at anything abouve say U17 or U19 level binding as a declaration. Or in bizarro world i'd say - you play for the country your accent belongs in, be it ireland, england, or cork.

I didnt mean 'form' as in how a team/league is doing at the moment, i meant it in the grander sense of the structure of teams and of the leagues in the country as a whole. I just cant ever see the El developing into a modern european league, keeping its best palyers and fielding the majority of the national squad in its current form. In a perfect world id favour drastic action but then again you cant very well tell passionate supportes like yourselves that their league and teams are 'wrong' so theyre being changed. I remember a long long thread about it before methinks.

Slash/ED

The_B_Man wrote:

who'd win in a full competitive match between Spurs abnd Shels? between any Irish stikers team and shels?

A fine argument, missing the point entirely that Terry Dixon doesn't and never has played for Spurs. He just broke into their reserve side, their senior teams capabilities is as relevent to him as Barcalonas senior teams capabilities or any team you care to mention. Now who'd win between Spurs reserves and Shels and useing your own logic who is more worthy of a call up if thats the criteria?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Is it me or is it beginning to look like Ireland Reserves v Holland? I'd bewell pissed off if I'd piad money for a ticket for this.

BaZmO*

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Is it me or is it beginning to look like Ireland Reserves v Holland? I'd bewell pissed off if I'd piad money for a ticket for this.

Eh....that's because it is the Irish reserve team. It's just unfortunate that we have so many injuries at the same time, but at least it's only a friendly and not a competitive match.

BaZmO*

Just looking at Paddypower.com and they really didn't hold back ripping the P1ss out of Stan. Made me laugh though.

Stan and Deliver!
You'd have thought Steve Staunton would already be well used to imitation shooters after his short time in charge of the Rep of Ireland team, Clinton does a great imitation of one nearly every time he plays. The Ireland manager wasn't too happy about having an Uzi, albeit a fake one, shoved in his face at the team hotel ahead of this Wednesday's clash with Holland and took to his heels (left pic: in hiding). Not before asking his potential hitman if he held an Irish passport of course. Will his weakened side show a little more Dutch courage when they take to the field against Van Basten's men? (7.30pm SS1)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

BaZmO* wrote:

Eh....that's because it is the Irish reserve team. It's just unfortunate that we have so many injuries at the same time, but at least it's only a friendly and not a competitive match.

Yeah, I know...be interesting to see how many of them can play on Saturday. Not the first time it's happened, I know.

Chong

Hup Holland Hup.

Huntelaar. 1-0.

Unearthly

I have to say I am very impressed, Germany should be an easy tie

galwaydude

Not a great preformance so far.

Unearthly

Game summed up right there

Chong

Fantastic 2-0.

Holland are all over Ireland.

scojones

Much worse than the Chile performance and I didn't think that was possible.