The Best Operational Assault Rifle

Flying

Okay in your opinion, which do you reckon is the most reliable currently used by Western Forces.


1. Steyr AUG - Irish Defence Forces, Good All Rounder and reliable

2. British L85A2 (SA80 Mk2) - IMHO, this is a piece of Crap, we used it in several countries and was both unreliable and dangerous.

3. American Armalite Variants - M4, M16A4 these weapons have evolved a lot from the initial days of the Vietnam M16

4. H&K G36 - A Perfect but yet slightly over complicated Weapon.

5. FAMAS - Just feckin weird

6. AK Variants - A robust weapon generally apart from the newer 5.45mm Versions.

Manic Moran

It still needs battle-testing, but the FN-2000 should be well up there, if for no other reason than its total ambidexterity.

I've heard nothing but good things about the L85A2 from those who used it in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's almost as if it's a completely different rifle from the much maligned L85A1.

NTM

IrishAirCorps

Flying wrote:

Okay in your opinion, which do you reckon is the most reliable currently used by Western Forces.


1. Steyr AUG - Irish Defence Forces, Good All Rounder and reliable

2. British L85A2 (SA80 Mk2) - IMHO, this is a piece of Crap, we used it in several countries and was both unreliable and dangerous.

3. American Armalite Variants - M4, M16A4 these weapons have evolved a lot from the initial days of the Vietnam M16

4. H&K G36 - A Perfect but yet slightly over complicated Weapon.

5. FAMAS - Just feckin weird

6. AK Variants - A robust weapon generally apart from the newer 5.45mm Versions.

Should the SA80 even be up there its a joke. Armalites i dunno they are very prone to jamming...AK Variants are tough as hell!

Manic Moran

IrishAirCorps wrote:

Should the SA80 even be up there its a joke. Armalites i dunno they are very prone to jamming...

The last millenium just called, says it misses you.

NTM

triskell

Manic Moran wrote:

It still needs battle-testing, but the FN-2000 should be well up there, if for no other reason than its total ambidexterity.

I've heard nothing but good things about the L85A2 from those who used it in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's almost as if it's a completely different rifle from the much maligned L85A1.

NTM

i heard something similiar about sa80A2 but this guy ( abrit squaddie) recons that the complete interior was gutted and rebuilt by HK and the exterior was kept the original for appearance/political sake now before you lads start to flame me this may be bulls**t but he seemed to belive it. a mate of mine was involved in the testing in the late 80s they handed the sa80 back in 2 portions the frame and a bag of bits, but at the time we came very close to getting it as standard rifle
cant remember exactly what was tested m16a2, styer. sa80 hk and a sig

Manic Moran

dfaf wrote:

i heard something similiar about sa80A2 but this guy ( abrit squaddie) recons that the complete interior was gutted and rebuilt by HK and the exterior was kept the original for appearance/political sake now before you lads start to flame me this may be bulls**t but he seemed to belive it.

No, he's about on the money.

Come the 1990s, the British finally admitted that they didn't really do all that good a job on the L85, so they decided to see about getting the troops a rifle that was a bit more reliable. There was nothing inherently wrong with the L85's design, it's basically just a bullpupped AR-18 which is the basis for a lot of modern rifles, and it was always extremely accurate. The problem was that the execution of the design was shoddy, with inadequate parts and a lack of thought to some components. (such as the infamous magazine release). It was a choice between scrapping the L85 altogether and buying something else, or fixing it to make it right. There are arguments saying that for the money spent on upgrades, they could well have just bought a new weapon.

In either case, Royal Ordnance set about fixing the thing, involving something like 32 new parts, from stronger pistons to a shroud for magazine release catch. At the time, RO owned H&K, so H&K did the actual work. (RO sold H&K back to H&K's parent company in 2002). Anything I'm hearing from people who went with the A2 to the desert (Not the A1) is that they now have a rifle which is both supremely accurate and supremely reliable. Unfortunately, it's taking a long time to get rid of the stigma that the design accumulated. It wouldn't be the first 'fixed' weapon to have such a problem.

NTM

punchdrunk

Hk also just redesigned the m4/m16a2 so that gets my vote

pucan

Manic Moran wrote:

The last millenium just called, says it misses you.

You said it better than i ever could have.

babybundy

i hate the styre give me back my fn fal i miss the fn's

Morpheus

I personally like the steyr, very dependable IF LOOKED AFTER CORRECTLY. Only draw back with a lot of modern rifles is the smaller round, 5.56 wont stop someone as quickly as 7.62, lighter ammo however means a bod can carry more of it. Theres probably a lot more 5.56 lying round a battlefield too... ive often bombed up on some dead comrades & enemies (training exercises, they aint REALLY dead!) rounds

spooky donkey

What actually defines an assult rifel.

I heard the sa80`s had problems dealing with the heat over in iraq.

I think the ak has to be the best as its the most used and the simplest design of them all.

Manic Moran

I believe that these days it usually involves 'small calibre, select fire, magazine fed, 18" barrel or greater'. (As opposed to battle rifle, which is 'medium calibre', such as the FAL, or sub 18" barrels which become carbines)

NTM

triskell

styer would get my vote.i wasnt keen on fn big and awkard, i hated the enfield with a vengence i know a lot of people get misty eyed about it, not me, when we changed over to styer light handy almost soldier proof the abuse that rifle can take is unbeliveable. we drove over them with landrovers on concrete, left over night in the lake no hassle worked every time, ok the fn was as hardy and a better caliber. i was amazed that irish gove opted fot it.
as to M4 i have limited experience with it but after all its tweaks it s probaly on par with styer. as aaccessories platform the M4 is probaly easier to kit out (picatinny rails)

po0k

For what it's worth, AK-47 and the Steyr AUG. Have only fired the latter so far.

The FN has a wonderful kick to it, you felt like 'trouble' marching down the road with it ...but the Bren was just gorgeous to fire. Beautiful weapon.

Flying

babybundy wrote:

i hate the styre give me back my fn fal i miss the fn's

The Steyr is a better weapon than the FN, the FN served a purpose for the time it was in service, but with todays mobile infantry the steyr is better for APC work, Higher Rate of Fire and the Soldier can carry more ammo.

Yes the FN has stopping power, but I'd rather TAB 20 Miles with a steyr than an SLR anyday

Flying

IrishAirCorps wrote:

Should the SA80 even be up there its a joke. Armalites i dunno they are very prone to jamming...AK Variants are tough as hell!

Look it's Walter.

Have you ever used an SA80 or any weapon at all.

The SA80 or L85A1 had many problems as did the Early Armalites.

Even the early versions of the AK47 had many problems until they were severly rejigged and stress tested !

IrishAirCorps

Flying wrote:

Have you ever used an SA80 or any weapon at all.

Steyr,FN,Bren,GPMG,AI,BAP.

Manic Moran

Hmm. I don't see L85A2 in that list. I submit that the opinions of L85A2 users should thus be considered highly in comparison. And they appear to like the thing.

NTM

thesweeney

Flying wrote:

Okay in your opinion, which do you reckon is the most reliable currently used by Western Forces.



2. British L85A2 (SA80 Mk2) - IMHO, this is a piece of Crap, we used it in several countries and was both unreliable and dangerous.

This is a piece of ****e alright. I'm still traumatised by having to clean 60 of them, bloody f**kers so they are

Clare gunner

Proably the Beligian issue FNC para rifle.If you include Switzerland in the Western forces, the SIG 550.
Most issued the US M16/M4.
Most liked HK G36
Most likely to suceed them all the FN SCAR.

bk

Clare gunner wrote:

Most likely to suceed them all the FN SCAR.

Completely OT but is it just me or does anyone else thing the FN SCAR is the ugliest looking weapon around?

BTW when you say the SCAR will become the best, do you mean chambered for 5.56mm or 7.64mm?

Of course in the end, the most important element is the person operating the riffle.

Clare gunner

[

QUOTE=bk]Completely OT but is it just me or does anyone else thing the FN SCAR is the ugliest looking weapon around?

You are right it is butt ugly!!!Looks like a cross between a G36 and a FAL which was sired by an AK.:eek:
Beauty is in the eye....

BTW when you say the SCAR will become the best, do you mean chambered for 5.56mm or 7.64mm?

You mean 7.62? or 300 whisper or 7.62X39 0r 243?Thats one of its beauties it can be quickly changed in calibers.

Of course in the end, the most important element is the person operating the riffle.

Never a truer word said.:)

the locust

Yeah looks like the FN SCAR / M4-AR variants
I also love the old Galil's back in the day! (50rd mags!)
I love the SA80A2 and the AUG but it's just the bullpup design with the mag behind the trigger... great on the defense or shooting at distance... but on the attack for speed and aggression up close it seems more natural to have the magazine in front of the trigger, and the bolt and safety in the right place...:)

mayhem#

Best assualt rifle?
The one that puts a round where I point it...


E.

Mick86

Flying wrote:

Okay in your opinion, which do you reckon is the most reliable currently used by Western Forces.


1. Steyr AUG - Irish Defence Forces, Good All Rounder and reliable

2. British L85A2 (SA80 Mk2) - IMHO, this is a piece of Crap, we used it in several countries and was both unreliable and dangerous.

3. American Armalite Variants - M4, M16A4 these weapons have evolved a lot from the initial days of the Vietnam M16

4. H&K G36 - A Perfect but yet slightly over complicated Weapon.

5. FAMAS - Just feckin weird

6. AK Variants - A robust weapon generally apart from the newer 5.45mm Versions.

From that list I have to pick the Steyr despite it's sight having had a detrimental effect on marksmanship and the fact that the Irish couldn't be arsed to accomodate left handed firers.

CJhaughey

Clare gunner wrote:

You are right it is butt ugly!!!Looks like a cross between a G36 and a FAL which was sired by an AK.:eek:
Beauty is in the eye....

Actually I think it looks like its granddad was a MP44, which many assault rifles are spawned from so it is no surprise.

Mick86

babybundy wrote:

i hate the styre give me back my fn fal i miss the fn's

Nobody who has used it would refer to it as a FAL.

mayhem#

Mick86 wrote:

Nobody who has used it would refer to it as a FAL.

Nonsense...

E.

triskell

Mick86 wrote:

From that list I have to pick the Steyr despite it's sight having had a detrimental effect on marksmanship and the fact that the Irish couldn't be arsed to accomodate left handed firers.

dead right
The fn was/is a very acurate rifle this was helped by the open sights when we changed over to the steyr with the target ring (what was it a 5' 8" man stood exactly inside the ring at 300 yards) it was very hard to place your shots consistently. I always reckoned the newer guys 1990 on were just trained to pass annual practice, the average recruit got f88k all range time. it was only if you shot as a hobby that your accuracy improved, and THEN you got put on a shooting team with proper coaching.
The AUG is easily changed over to lefty to much bother for paddy
and dont forget the ALO to save ammunition:D

Mick86

mayhem# wrote:

Nonsense...

E.

Nobody in the Irish army ever referred to it as a FAL. It was always an FN.

Mick86

dfaf wrote:

dead right
The fn was/is a very acurate rifle this was helped by the open sights when we changed over to the steyr with the target ring (what was it a 5' 8" man stood exactly inside the ring at 300 yards) it was very hard to place your shots consistently.

We had to do some weird things to get a definite POA with the reticle. And it is hard to zero absolutely accurately. The sight wasn't designed with pin point accuracy in mind.

dfaf wrote:

I always reckoned the newer guys 1990 on were just trained to pass annual practice, the average recruit got f88k all range time....

Passing your APWT is the basics. To do so with the FN required knowlege of marksmanship. With the Steyr the recruit is just told to put the target in teh reticle and he will achieve a hit. But he won't.

dfaf wrote:

The AUG is easily changed over to lefty to much bother for paddy

Pennypinching.