Thunderdome: Threads about users

[Jackass]

The internet.

Serious business.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Endurance Man wrote:

Both the thunderdome and the cuckoo's nest are a complete waste of precious boards server speed/space. Do you folks posting in these completely useless threads really have nothing better to do?

Thats like something Hitler would say...

Asok

Hmm I could do with a little bit more LebensRaum....

Shabadu

Carnivore wrote:

What about threads started about users that don't normally post in that forum? Surely they haven't agreed to putting the gloves on.

Maybe this issue could be resolved if users who had threads started about them could request to have them deleted?

RoundyMooney

Sounds like an ideal compromise to me. Presumably though, thread lockage/deletion was always an option, at the discretion of teh powahs that be.

I don't want the 'dome to go anywhere, but IMHO things are too open ended there as it stands. A charter, even a very basic one "two men enter etc..." would sort a lot of problems at source.

Stark

I don't think the threads should be there in the first place. By the time the user gets to the point of asking for a deletion, the hurt has been inflicted.

RoundyMooney wrote:

I don't want the 'dome to go anywhere, but IMHO things are too open ended there as it stands. A charter, even a very basic one "two men enter etc..." would sort a lot of problems at source.

Pretty much my thinking. The 'dome was put there in the first place as a dumping ground for flame wars that spring up in other forums and should be left at that. Spontaneous threads popping up to abuse random users should be deleted on the spot. I don't think there are too many in there at the moment, but I think the point should be made clear now to avoid problems in the future.

Tar.Aldarion

Stark wrote:

I don't think the threads should be there in the first place. By the time the user gets to the point of asking for a deletion, the hurt has been inflicted.

Oh noe, not the hurt.
You sound like somebody that would cry if I went up to them and said, 'hey dude, you suck because, you know, yore ma'.

If somebody wants a thread removed about them, they can have it done.
No words on the internet can compare whatsover to an insult out in the big old real world.

Stark

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Oh noe, not the hurt.
You sound like somebody that would cry if I went up to them and said, 'hey dude, you suck because, you know, yore ma'.

Uhm no.

I don't like to be all "somebody please think of the children" but most of our more annoying users are generally teenagers. We've all heard stories of how much damage cyberbullying can cause. Now your average insult on boards.ie is generally all sticks and stones but having a whole thread of users whipping themselves into a frenzy about how much of a gob****e you are is a bit more than your average "u suck n00b". Besides, having those threads is a bit pointless in the first place. What's anyone gaining from it?

Nick_oliveri

Stark wrote:

Uhm no.
What's anyone gaining from it?

Big cyber willies!

I wont be too long until someone (underage) tells someone (mammeh and teh daddeh) that this person (amp ) has been abusive and hurtful.

Daddeh: "What, what, what?? My little princess has been cyberbullied? "

Cochran: "Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, amps attorney would certainly want you to believe that his client has recieved provocation from Daddehs little princess."

"And they make a good case. Hell, I almost felt pity myself! But, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider..."

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!"

Stark

Nick_Oliveri wrote:

I wont be too long until someone (underage) tells someone (mammeh and teh daddeh) that this person (amp ) has been abusive and hurtful.

In fairness to amp, I've only seen him go after those who deserve it, ie: the ****ing "OMG why was I banned. You're all fascists! You're like Hitler when Hitler banned 1 million Jews for posting crap on webforums!" whingers on the feedbag forum.

At least that's what I thought until you mentioned the Chewbacca thing.

Gone West

Actually, I would support the thunderdome being closed.
It is not really beneficial towards the boards.
Threads that would once be moved there should be moved to the recycle bin.

A lot of other forums are closing their equivalent to the thunderdome because of this and more reasons, some legal. (ohh yes, I brought out the L word)

Amz

Well frankly the ability to abuse such a forum and to potentially harm someone in the process is too great here. I think people are too quick to dismiss the idea of bullying with regard to the Thunderdome.

I was bullied on boards, I didn’t enjoy it, but it happened, it happened in places where I did read it and when I complained lots of people (including some of you on this thread) complained that my complaint was being dealt with because of a “clique” here on boards. It took a lot for me to complain about how I was being treated, I knew I’d get the whole “It’s the internet suck it up” rubbish, but why should I put up with the treatment of a few ignorant idiots, who had to resort to petty name calling when all I was doing was using boards

Why should it be treated differently because it’s the Thunderdome?

The mere fact that people can now start threads there for the purpose of abusing other posters is a huge step backwards for boards. I understood the original purpose of the forum was to move threads/portions of threads where an argument etc. was taking place between two or more posters so that they could continue it off thread, thus freeing up the thread for more content and less bickering.

I’m frankly a little saddened to see some of the mods who are dismissing the idea that what takes place in the Thunderdome could be construed as bullying.

scojones

Amz wrote:

The mere fact that people can now start threads there for the purpose of abusing other posters is a huge step backwards for boards.

I agree. I wouldn't mind if The Thunderdome remained and thread creation was no longer possible. Indirect thread creation could be an issue though, someone creating a thread about a user on another forum and it being moved to The Thunderdome.

Amz

Well there should be some system in place where that kind of situation would be dealt with.

scojones

Yeah I'd be happy enough if that was handled adequately.

hullaballoo

Surely a mod would be able to spot that event, were it to occur, and lock the thread without sending it to TT. We're not robots, so we're not programmed to do things within certain parameters i.e., we won't just send a thread to TT just because it fits the criteria.

Blub2k4

I think the original idea of the Thunderdome being the place to finish an argument started on another forum where it is off-topic is a good one.
It should never have become the place to start arguments with people not already involved.
Basically I would support going back to the original premise and only allowing posts to be moved to there split off from other threads where the argument started.

amp

Amz wrote:

I’m frankly a little saddened to see some of the mods who are dismissing the idea that what takes place in the Thunderdome could be construed as bullying.

I see you've completely ignored my arguments on why it isn't bullying.

Amz

amp wrote:

I see you've completely ignored my arguments on why it isn't bullying.

Yes amp, I read your comments.

The fact is amp, that in real life people might not always be nice to each other, but in most cases; work, school etc. there are guidelines for dealing with bullying. If you know your work colleagues are bitching behind your back and this is affecting your work etc. you can put procedures in place to deal with this.

What are the procedures on boards?

I made the point earlier, that if a user sees a moderator or Smod etc. taking part in a thread abusing them they’re unlikely to feel that if they complain, or ask for the thread and its participants be dealt with, that their case will be handled sympathetically. How can we give assurances to users that they can trust that a thread where they feel victimised will be removed upon their request?

One user requested that items be removed from a thread a number of weeks ago and their request went ignored, in the beginning at least, but if that’s how mods who don’t like certain users for whatever reason deal with simple requests who’s to say that a more serious request would be treated any differently.

Bullying should not be tolerated in any form and it is subjective, as I said earlier what one person perceives as bullying may not be what another person perceives as bullying, which is why you and I clearly disagree.

amp

Amz wrote:

Yes amp, I read your comments.

The fact is amp, that in real life people might not always be nice to each other, but in most cases; work, school etc. there are guidelines for dealing with bullying. If you know your work colleagues are bitching behind your back and this is affecting your work etc. you can put procedures in place to deal with this.

Not comparable. At school or work you have to be there. You don't have to be in TT, it is entirely optional to be there.

You and others don't seem to understand that the terrible thing about actual bullying isn't the abuse, it's the fact that it's very hard to escape from it. The victim feels trapped. Especially when you have to be at the place where it's occuring.

What it would be comparable to is some people sitting in a room talking about what a moron someone is. Should that conversation be stopped because that person potentially might hear it? No and the idea that it should be is laughable.

Stop calling it bullying. It isn't.

Amz

amp wrote:

You and others don't seem to understand that the terrible thing about actual bullying isn't the abuse, it's the fact that it's very hard to escape from it. The victim feels trapped. Especially when you have to be at the place where it's occuring.

I have to disagree with this; every forum on boards.ie is part of the one site. If you get wind that a person is/was giving you abuse on one particular forum, it would be very difficult to distance the comments from the poster if/when dealing with them on another forum.

Why is personal abuse acceptable on one part of this site and not on others?

It's the nasty, personal abuse that I've the problem with, not the slagging that all parties enter into. I don't know why the Thunderdome's original purpose was changed; I obviously missed that memo while working on my TPS reports

I'm not sure why you've chosen to ignore my other queries regarding the procedures to deal with complaints in the Thunderdome, or how to reassure users who do feel intimidated by moderator’s behaviour on such threads, but perhaps you're planning on addressing them later.

As I said earlier, given that there are so many young people on boards these days the temptation for them to look at and/or engage in threads concerning themselves can be great. Telling them "Just don't read it" is not really a suitable or realistic solution.

Nick_oliveri

Semantics tbh. I know some people are taking the piss in there but there has to be a line drawn where the joke ends and the pure taunt and hurt begins.

And you're fat! - (example)

Telling them "Just don't read it" is not really a suitable or realistic solution.

I agree tbh.

Amz

It's not fat, it's insulation I've installed for the winter.

Nick_oliveri

I was responding to amps post there but i was never really introduced properly to the great beacon of Mavis!

You, on the other hand, must be a master of the keyboard! (I base this on post count alone!)

amp

Amz wrote:

I have to disagree with this; every forum on boards.ie is part of the one site. If you get wind that a person is/was giving you abuse on one particular forum, it would be very difficult to distance the comments from the poster if/when dealing with them on another forum.

Difficult but not impossible. Personally I don't find it difficult at all. Why? because I understand that things said in TT don't mean diddly squat.

Why is personal abuse acceptable on one part of this site and not on others?

It's acceptable in TCN (terms and conditions apply). Essentially it can concentrate all the threads that have decended into flamefests into one, easy to ignore forum.

It's the nasty, personal abuse that I've the problem with, not the slagging that all parties enter into. I don't know why the Thunderdome's original purpose was changed; I obviously missed that memo while working on my TPS reports

Slagging, personal abuse, what's the difference? Do think by stamping out all personal abuse system wide that it would stop? No, it would just go underground where the person would have no way to respond even if they wanted to. Is that better?

I'm not sure why you've chosen to ignore my other queries regarding the procedures to deal with complaints in the Thunderdome, or how to reassure users who do feel intimidated by moderator’s behaviour on such threads, but perhaps you're planning on addressing them later.

I've ignored them because they rely on supposition that it's bullying. When I post to TT I'm not posting as a moderator, I'm posting as a user. If people don't realise this then they just don't understand one of the fundemental things on this website.

Speaking of ignoring, you've ignored my comparison to that of people talking about another person in reallife. I ask you again. Should people in a public area be told to shut up if they are saying bad things about another person?

As I said earlier, given that there are so many young people on boards these days the temptation for them to look at and/or engage in threads concerning themselves can be great. Telling them "Just don't read it" is not really a suitable or realistic solution.

The main thrust of your argument seems to be that boards should be run to pander to those who are both ignorant and easily give into temptation. My argument is that those people should either grow thicker skins, get more informed or get off boards.ie and possibly off the internet in general. Young people have to learn how to deal with the fact that some people can be assholes, at some stage in their life. Most can already.

amp

Nick_oliveri wrote:

I was responding to amps post there but i was never really introduced properly to the great beacon of Mavis!

You, on the other hand, must be a master of the keyboard! (I base this on post count alone!)

I prefer the term "stout". But what if I had been a young person? Would this post cause me hurtfulness? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF TEH CHILDREN!

TheSecondComing

Sarky wrote:

Personally, I'm not incredibly happy about people being able to start threads there. I liked it better when the only threads appearing there were moved from somewhere else.

Aside from that, "anything goes" means just that. If you post in the Thunderdome, you had better be able to give as good as you get. That's the point.

And Endurance Man, pipe down. You're just jealous because you're rubbish at posting in either forum. You seemed quite ecstatic back when you started that Pighead vs Sarky thread in, ooh! Look! The Thunderdome! Were you hurt when neither of us danced for your amusement? Or was it everyone else telling you what a crappy idea it was? If you're denying your contribution to that forum I guess we may never know.

I think you are bang on with the first part. People just starting threads in there is probably what most of this thread is about. It is one thing having arguments that deflect from a thread pruned and shifted into the TT. It's another thing starting a thread in there with the sole purpose of having a pop at some one. Doing that is a form of antagonism and if the person feels it, well bullying. Mostly because bullying is a very personal and subjective thing. You can call some one fattie till the cows come home but if they are fat and don't give a toss. Well it is not really bullying. Attempted bullying is probably more apt. Just because alot of people don't see what is happening to others in the TT as bullying or hurtful does not make it so.

To say that there is [/i]no bullying in the TT is nonsense. And to say that the person being picked via a thread being started about them does not have to read it therefore it's their fault if they feel hurt because they read the thread? is even more nonsense. Boards.ie should probably try using that as a defense in their up and coming you know what. "Your honour They didn't have to read it you know, frankly they are stupid bastrds for getting upset from reading it. Like what were they thinking? They knew it was not going to be a favourable post!!!" :rolleyes:

I think Amz is on the money when she mentions boards more youthful members. It is easy with a more mature, and let me use that phrase loosely, mindset not to be bothered by insults on the internet. But a 16 year old having a thread started about them in a derisery manner? Well some might just see that as harsh. And having been a 16 year old once life can be difficult at the best of times.

Insults only hurt if they hurt is a true enough statement and noone can define what another person will find as hurtful. 95% of the TT is just messfull p1ssing about with attempted and over exagerated insults. Cool if people join in some thread and a few posters turn on them. If they want to dish it well then they should just take it.

Having a thread started about you out of nowhere by some poster who doen't have the balls to say it to you on the forum or thread that insigated their move, well that another thing. Lets face it they did that because they were to cowardly and afraid of getting banned to "say it to their face" as it were.

The soloution would really be to still have it as a place were mods can prune silly flame wars to. With posting rights for everyone else in the new thread.

Frankly when it come to bullying it seems to be something no one will ever admit to. Maybe it's a shame thing?

Amz

amp wrote:

Difficult but not impossible. Personally I don't find it difficult at all. Why? because I understand that things said in TT don't mean diddly squat.

amp you've been on boards for far longer than the vast majority of the 75,000 users here on boards, and your mental capacity is obviously far superior to theirs. Taking that into account try and put yourself in the position of the average poster, if the circumstances are right/wrong what could ordinarly be perceived as a slagging could be perceived as incredibly hurtful and I understood that the original idea that ordinary users couldn't start threads in The Thunderdome was to avoid such abuse of the forum.

It's acceptable in TCN (terms and conditions apply). Essentially it can concentrate all the threads that have decended into flamefests into one, easy to ignore forum.

I'm not talking about TCN, that forum's an even greater waste of space in my opinion, but that’s neither here nor there.

Slagging, personal abuse, what's the difference?

There is a difference, slagging is generally done in good faith, where both parties are aware that it is done in jest, as soon as one, or other of those involved is hurt/intimidated etc. then it becomes abuse. It is not for you, or I to determine when that line is crossed, but for the individual who claims to have been affected.

Do think by stamping out all personal abuse system wide that it would stop? No, it would just go underground where the person would have no way to respond even if they wanted to. Is that better?

No amp, it's not better. You and I both know that.

It's impossible to stamp it out because people are people and unfortunately a lot of people are incapable of standing back, or holding their tongue (Or whatever the internet equivilant is).

I've ignored them because they rely on supposition that it's bullying.

Again, what you perceive as bullying may not be what other people perceive as bullying.

When I post to TT I'm not posting as a moderator, I'm posting as a user. If people don't realise this then they just don't understand one of the fundemental things on this website.

Amp, I'm aware of the fact that that's the idea behind it, but you've missed the point I was attempting to make, which is who is a poster meant to complain to, or go to if they've a problem with a thread/post in the Thunderdome? If the SMods are the top of the pecking order before the admins themselves and the SMods are taking part in the "abuse", then what is a poster meant to do?

Speaking of ignoring, you've ignored my comparison to that of people talking about another person in reallife. I ask you again. Should people in a public area be told to shut up if they are saying bad things about another person?

Obviously that would be the ideal behaviour. If people dealt with their grievances with one another in an open, or diplomatic fashion then the bitchiness and back biting and general passive aggressive behaviour might become less socially acceptable.

The main thrust of your argument seems to be that boards should be run to pander to those who are both ignorant and easily give into temptation.

No amp, the main thrust of my argument is that boards.ie shouldn’t pander to the people who have to rely on the anonymity of an Internet forum to vent their spleens. Abuse of any kind should not be encouraged and I don’t know why boards.ie feels it needs to be the medium for this.

My argument is that those people should either grow thicker skins, get more informed or get off boards.ie and possibly off the internet in general. Young people have to learn how to deal with the fact that some people can be assholes, at some stage in their life. Most can already.

Why should boards.ie be the place where they learn this?

Again, why should the Thunderdome be treated as separate entirely from the rest of the site? If a user took enough offence to a thread and decided to pursue legal action as a result of comments posted there then I seriously doubt the argument “They didn’t have to read it” or “Things posted on the Thunderdome don’t mean anything, they’re a silly eejit if they couldn’t comprehend that and should have grown a thicker skin if they wanted to use the internet” would be acceptable.

Pocari Sweat

sjones, no harm in going to whatever lengths you want to in the thunderdome, and I have read many of the posts in this thread about the thunderdome, and I can take any amount of waffle of you or a bunch of you and the rest, but I hope you don't post actual invites out to the real world to glass people, to other posters?

I won't take it seriously, but for your own sake and other more fragile posters, that sort of comment is a bit OTT, maybe? maybe not? I don't know, you probably have an idea of the past limits of comments like these, but I think you should chew on it.

I'll leave it at that.

He did post a pic of his cock up his as before that got him reprimanded IIRC!