Thunderdome: Threads about users

Nick_oliveri

amp wrote:

I prefer the term "stout". But what if I had been a young person? Would this post cause me hurtfulness? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF TEH CHILDREN!

No it would have anyways, if i meant it! Im just demonstating that if there was a (>stout) weight problem or any other problem which i brought up in the TT (in good faith or otherwise) it might hit a nerve. It really wouldnt matter if you were a childer or not!

(but you could still be daddehs little princess!)

amp

Amz wrote:

amp you've been on boards for far longer than the vast majority of the 75,000 users here on boards, and your mental capacity is obviously far superior to theirs. Taking that into account try and put yourself in the position of the average poster, if the circumstances are right/wrong what could ordinarly be perceived as a slagging could be perceived as incredibly hurtful and I understood that the original idea that ordinary users couldn't start threads in The Thunderdome was to avoid such abuse of the forum.

I was talking about myself because I am the only person I can speak for. There are many others that understand what TT is for. You have an understanding of what it's for but sometimes forums evolve (or devolve) into different things. Humanities wasn't always what it is now for example.

I'm not talking about TCN, that forum's an even greater waste of space in my opinion, but that’s neither here nor there.

Well thanks for that uncalled for jibe, but my point was that TT was not unique.

There is a difference, slagging is generally done in good faith, where both parties are aware that it is done in jest, as soon as one, or other of those involved is hurt/intimidated etc. then it becomes abuse. It is not for you, or I to determine when that line is crossed, but for the individual who claims to have been affected.

The point I've made repeatedly is that if someone feels like they are being abused or intimidated then they can just not read TT. They have that power. It's not up to boards to make that decision. You claim it is.

It's impossible to stamp it out because people are people and unfortunately a lot of people are incapable of standing back, or holding their tongue (Or whatever the internet equivilant is).

Agreed.

Again, what you perceive as bullying may not be what other people perceive as bullying.

I have quite a clear knowledge of what bullying is and what is it not. I have experienced systematic bullying when I was a child and that's probably why I get so angry when people throw the term around without seeming to understand it all.

Amp, I'm aware of the fact that that's the idea behind it, but you've missed the point I was attempting to make, which is who is a poster meant to complain to, or go to if they've a problem with a thread/post in the Thunderdome? If the SMods are the top of the pecking order before the admins themselves and the SMods are taking part in the "abuse", then what is a poster meant to do?

Ignore it? Not read TT?

Obviously that would be the ideal behaviour. If people dealt with their grievances with one another in an open, or diplomatic fashion then the bitchiness and back biting and general passive aggressive behaviour might become less socially acceptable.

Still not answering my question. Instead you reply with some naive diatribe about the world being a better place if we were just nicer to each other. In your fairytale world there would never be riots or war or people getting mugged. The simple truth is that human beings are not always nice to each other. They will talk about each other behind their backs.

The only way to stop that would be to have some system were every word is listened to and people get punished for saying the wrong thing. I don't want to live in a world like that. Do you?

No amp, the main thrust of my argument is that boards.ie shouldn’t pander to the people who have to rely on the anonymity of an Internet forum to vent their spleens. Abuse of any kind should not be encouraged and I don’t know why boards.ie feels it needs to be the medium for this.

It's not encouraged. It's just not discouraged. Nobody encourages anybody to post in TT.

Why should boards.ie be the place where they learn this?

Why not? Boards facilates the learning of all sorts of things. Maybe if they can survive the trauma of TT then they could be better equiped to deal with the rest of what is still a largely an internet that does not clamp down on personal abuse.

Again, why should the Thunderdome be treated as separate entirely from the rest of the site? If a user took enough offence to a thread and decided to pursue legal action as a result of comments posted there then I seriously doubt the argument “They didn’t have to read it” or “Things posted on the Thunderdome don’t mean anything, they’re a silly eejit if they couldn’t comprehend that and should have grown a thicker skin if they wanted to use the internet” would be acceptable.

How do you know? If I went to a rugby match and saw people physically kicking the crap out of each other could I sue them because I didn't understand people would be getting hurt in there? Even if I could, would that be right? Would banning rugby be the right way forward?

Do you think that the people suing MacDonalds because they somehow didn't realise that eating large quantities of burgers could make them fat are right?

But I doubt we're ever going to agree on this. I believe the responsiblity for a persons actions are their own. You seem to think that it's entirely boards.ie's responsibilty.

You have the last word. I've said all I can.

amp

Nick_oliveri wrote:

No it would have anyways, if i meant it! Im just demonstating that if there was a (>stout) weight problem or any other problem which i brought up in the TT (in good faith or otherwise) it might hit a nerve. It really wouldnt matter if you were a childer or not!

I could either respond in kind or ignore it. Alternatively I could actually realise that if I wasn't such a fat bastard and maybe got down the gym and stopped eating so much pizza that I could become less fat and more healthy. TT could actually save me from getting a heartattack!

scojones

Deleted User wrote:

He did post a pic of his cock up his as before that got him reprimanded IIRC!

You don't recall correctly, IIRC.

Pocari, you should have created your own thread in feedback, not posted an issue in this one as that would bring this thread off topic, which is why I did not reply directly to you in this thread.
I've addressed you over on the thunderdome. Let this thread get back on topic.

Pocari Sweat

Sorry, I'm a bit new on feedback, get yer point.

scojones

No problem.

Amz

amp wrote:

I have quite a clear knowledge of what bullying is and what is it not. I have experienced systematic bullying when I was a child and that's probably why I get so angry when people throw the term around without seeming to understand it all.

You're not the only person who has experienced bullying. Don't try to bully us by not letting anyone else have an opinion.

Still not answering my question. Instead you reply with some naive diatribe about the world being a better place if we were just nicer to each other. In your fairytale world there would never be riots or war or people getting mugged. The simple truth is that human beings are not always nice to each other. They will talk about each other behind their backs.

Yes, in my fairytale world there would be no riots, or muggings. This is an "ideal" it's not real, but it is something we can strive for.

Acknowledging things like bullying and mugging as wrong is not saying that they don't exist.

Why not? Boards facilates the learning of all sorts of things. Maybe if they can survive the trauma of TT then they could be better equiped to deal with the rest of what is still a largely an internet that does not clamp down on personal abuse.

So you feel that boards.ie has a duty to teach people life lessons.

Then why not extend that idea to the entire site?
Why use the defence that porn is banned from certain forums, or the swear word filter is in place to protect younger users?

Why was it felt that access to the Sex and Sexuality forum should be restricted if not to limit the number of younger users who would view its content*.

If you believe that boards.ie should not be molly coddling people and should be preparing them for the rest of the internet, or real life, why have protections or procedures in place to on some public forums and not on one, or two others which would seem to contradict what you’re saying?

Surely if a user posts pornographic images on After Hours and another user sees it and is offended your “Don’t read it” argument would suffice.

How do you know? If I went to a rugby match and saw people physically kicking the crap out of each other could I sue them because I didn't understand people would be getting hurt in there? Even if I could, would that be right? Would banning rugby be the right way forward?

I’m not sure of your level of understanding of the game of rugby, but the two situations really are not comparable. Rugby Union has procedures in place to penalise those who do “Kick the crap out of each other” during games. That behaviour is actively discouraged.

Do you think that the people suing MacDonalds because they somehow didn't realise that eating large quantities of burgers could make them fat are right?

It was their right to pursue legal action. The law seemed to believe that they were right, thus they won their cases against McDonald’s. The fact that you, or I may have thought that they were wrong to sue is irrelevant.


[*]I realise the subscriber perk aspect of the restricted access.

Pocari Sweat

Is there some talk that the Thunderdome is going to be banned? I hope so, it is full of idiots talking crap.

And they are so nasty to each other, it doesn't set a good example.

_Kaiser_

I brought this up a while back and got shouted down by the "you don't have to read it / grow a thicker skin" brigade, so let's try again as there are a lot of people posting here who seem to agree with my original point.

Firstly, Boards.ie is accessible to anyone, of any age and without need for a subscription or registration. Many of these users are young and impressionable, and Boards.ie, as a commercial entity (which it is, not the harmless "clubhouse" some people seem to think it is) has a responsibility - ethically if not legally - to ensure that what happens on this website doesn't step over the line.

Amp and others make the case that it's not bullying because it's "the internet" and therefore as an internet user, you should already be prepared to take abuse from strangers. Whilst there is some validity to this argument, just because something is the way it is, doesn't make it acceptable.

They also say that no-one forces you to read it, but when your name shows up on the front page, you are naturally going to click on it. As Amz says, at that point it's already too late and the damage has been done.

Furthermore, whether Amp and the other supporters of TD consider it bullying is irrelevant. The facts are that the abuse and behaviour that goes on in there is not tolerated on any other part of this site (with the possible exception of TCN), and that people have been banned for a lot less than some of the stuff that has been posted in the CSG/Le Rack threads (for example).

As someone else said, we've already seen cases where this sort of online bullying and harassment ultimately led to the victim harming or actually killing themselves. Do we really want to sit back and pretend that there isn't a problem, or at least that changes to the current setup are required, until this happens here?

I don't agree with the reasoning that the rules don't apply in TD because it's inspired by a scene from a fictional Mad Max movie. Not all users (especially newer/younger users) will know this - especially as there's no charter or rules sticky - nor will they realise that an Smod/Mod of another forum is simply another user in the TD. All they'll see is a "Mod" joining in in abusing another poster, and as Amz pointed out, this could lead them to believe that such behaviour is in fact validated and supported by (the mods of) Boards.ie

However, despite the above, and very valid points raised by some other posters here, I'm going to predict that the TD will continue to exist, so I'd like to suggest some changes, such as:
- Insert a charter (this should be done ASAP regardless of TD's ultimate fate)
- Appoint Mods to keep an eye on things and lock/delete threads once things get out of hand.
- Remove the ability to create new threads
- Remove threads showing up on the front page of Boards.ie

Ultimately I think, the Admins and Owners of this site need to sit down and decide what they want to do with Boards.ie's increasingly popularity and fame and how they wish the site to be viewed by its users, sponsors/advertisers and the public at large.

In my opinion there is no justification for the TD to continue in it's current form (I'd personally be in favor of removing it entirely), and given the media attention to online bullying on bebo, and the government's new policy on internet usage in schools, I feel it'd be wiser to act in a proactive manner now, than be forced to react later.

Asiaprod

Kaiser2000 wrote:

given the media attention to online bullying on bebo, and the government's new policy on internet usage in schools, I feel it'd be wiser to act in a proactive manner now, than be forced to react later.

I would second this.

- Insert a charter (this should be done ASAP regardless of TD's ultimate fate)
- Appoint Mods to keep an eye on things and lock/delete threads once things get out of hand.
- Remove threads showing up on the front page of Boards.ie

I think these are very good ideas, I am willing to help keep it alive, but moderated to some extent.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

tbh

if by hypocritical you mean ancient, then yes. yes it is.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

tbh

that's hardly an achievement, in fairness. (:p )

If you still think I'm hypocritical, have a look over my replies to the thread I'm assuming you are talking about(34 posts, as opposed to the 44 you made). Any posts I made that are critical of you are in direct reply to posts you made. Some could even be considered to be defending you.

If you've any problems with that thread, I'd suggest reporting it, and it'll probably be closed. With the exception of Kamikasi (dunno what you did to upset that guy) and Degsy (who doesn't really count) it stopped being about you ages ago anyway. Which kind of proves the point I made in post 1 of this thread, and #254 of the thread in question.

I'm happy to discuss this further with you, but as this is really only relevant to you and I, it should probably be over PM. Hope the exams went ok.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Beruthiel

The Scientist wrote:

Bit of a hypocritical thread tbh, dont ya think?

I see no reason for dragging up a thread posted in Sept 2006.
B