So what do we do now?

banaman

http://www.irishexaminer.com/text/story.asp?j=3245886&p=3z46y65&n=3246182

I've been saying for years that having a "war on drugs" doesn't work. I think its time to be adult about the "drugs problem" and just legalise ALL drugs but only from strictly licenced outlets, e.g. pharmacists, ONLY on production of photo i.d.

That way at least it takes the crooks out of the loop and also the quality is assured, plus the govt gets taxes and the courts aren't clogged with drug cases.

Mick86

banaman wrote:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/text/story.asp?j=3245886&p=3z46y65&n=3246182

I've been saying for years that having a "war on drugs" doesn't work. I think its time to be adult about the "drugs problem" and just legalise ALL drugs but only from strictly licenced outlets, e.g. pharmacists, ONLY on production of photo i.d.

That way at least it takes the crooks out of the loop and also the quality is assured, plus the govt gets taxes and the courts aren't clogged with drug cases.

There would still be a market for tax-free drugs. Also we would have to pick up the tab for treating all the fcuked-up druggies.

Nick_oliveri

Mick86 wrote:

have to pick up the tab for treating all the fcuked-up druggies.

Which there would have to be selective treatment for i.e ecstasy and acid!

Voipjunkie

Mick86 wrote:

There would still be a market for tax-free drugs. Also we would have to pick up the tab for treating all the fcuked-up druggies.

We already pick up the tab in social welfare,crime,prison places, extra Gardai, No go areas etc

I honestly think it would be far cheaper to stop trying to fight an obviuosly unwinnable war on drugs surely prohibition in the 30s in the US demonstrated that banning something that there is a demand for only makes very rich criminals.

Legalising and education about the obvious dangers of these substances is the way forward

mike65

Legalise drugs or instigate a policy of shoot on sight for both users and sellers. Unfortunatly there is as much chance of the latter being adopted as a policy as the former!

Mike.

New_Departure06

Legalise all drugs? No that would be totally off the wall. I think we need a much more hard-line crackdown on the supply side, with a greater role for Europol in this. I actually think the Schengen Treaty may be harming the fight against drugs in this respect but removing all customs checks in the signaturies to it. I am glad then that we have not signed up for it. On what to do about those who take drugs, I would be far tougher on the suppliers than the drug-abusers themselves, but still, I would not allow a free-for-all regarding drug-abuse. I would consider however allowing some strictly limited drug-use of some soft-drugs in certain special centres that would be supervised to prevent overdosing. But certainly not for E or heroin etc. That can never be responsibly countenanced. A gram of heroine can stop the heart you know.

samb

Mick86 wrote:

There would still be a market for tax-free drugs. Also we would have to pick up the tab for treating all the fcuked-up druggies.

We already do. I think if we have ad campaigns about how drugs like cannibas are harmful we could actually reduce drug use-just because drugs are legal does not mean people will take them more.

The most important drug to legalise is cannibas because it accounts for more than half of the drug business. Legalise that and you reduce drug business by half. Use the tax for ad campaigns and enforcing laws that are enforcable.

Mick86

Voipjunkie wrote:

We already pick up the tab in social welfare,crime,prison places, extra Gardai, No go areas etc ....

We could save even more if we legalised rape, robbery, murder and car theft. But then we'd find ourselves living in anarchy and our quality of life might suffer.:rolleyes:

samb wrote:

We already do. I think if we have ad campaigns about how drugs like cannibas are harmful we could actually reduce drug use-just because drugs are legal does not mean people will take them more.

Like those really successful "Smoking Kills" advertisments. If drugs were legal they would be easier to purchase so people would take them more.

samb wrote:

The most important drug to legalise is cannibas because it accounts for more than half of the drug business. Legalise that and you reduce drug business by half. Use the tax for ad campaigns and enforcing laws that are enforcable.

Why would someone pay tax on something they can buy on the blackmarket and possess quite legally. Alcohol and tobacco are legal yet there is a booming blackmarket trade in them.

Sgt. Sensible

mike65 wrote:

Legalise drugs or instigate a policy of shoot on sight for both users and sellers. Unfortunatly there is as much chance of the latter being adopted as a policy as the former!

Mike.

Any excuse to shoot smackhead scangers, spliff wielding students and coked up yuppie scum in the face is alright by me, but if the approach was successful, the population of Dublin would be reduced to about 12, which might be a problem.

Sgt. Sensible

Mick86 wrote:

If drugs were legal they would be easier to purchase so people would take them more.

You think it's difficult to buy drugs in Ireland? Ah to be so young and innocent again.

RedPlanet

I don't have the stats but i'm going to stick my neck out on this one:
Alcoholism is more costly to us than all other drug use problems combined.
People have the drug problem arseways.
They should be banning (or controling) alcohol and allowing cannabis for a start.

Mick86

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

You think it's difficult to buy drugs in Ireland? Ah to be so young and innocent again.

I'm in my mid 40s and work part time in a night club so I know that drugs are easy to come by. If they were legal they would be easier to come by and no action could be taken against someone for possessing or using them.:rolleyes:

Mick86

RedPlanet wrote:

Alcoholism is more costly to us than all other drug use problems combined.

I'd be inclined to give the first prize to tobacco myself.

RedPlanet wrote:

They should be banning (or controling) alcohol

Yes they should.

RedPlanet wrote:

[and allowing cannabis for a start.

No they shouldn't. You're just replacing one problem with another. That does not make a solution.

Terry

we get one of these every few months.

ooh, alcohol is bad for you, but cannabis isn't. why won't my government allow me to smoke it? boo fucking hoo.

legalising drugs is not the answer. nor is prohibition.
the answer is to stop them at the source so that they don't get into the country in the first place. economic sanctions against the countries of origin would be the place to start. penalise colombia, afghanistan, morocco etc. for every kilo of coke/ heroin/ cannabis that comes into Ireland. let the governemnts of those countries get their finger out and start cracking down on the growers of these drugs.

as for legalising cannabis, Mick86 is right. it's just replacing one problem with another. cannabis is bad for you, despite what those hippy websites might tell you. most of them are written by young american college students who have nothing better to do. all they tell you is what you want to hear. you'll never see anything about the negative effects (paranoia, addiction (yes, it is addictive, see AH for threads about "droughts" for example), panic attacks and so on).
as for heroin, where do you stop with the legalisation?
do you just give it to people who are currently addicted in the hope that they will be able to eventually come off it under controlled circumstances, or do you extend that to everyone who turns up with a heroin problem for the rest of time?
giving it to one person only results in others trying it because they know if htey become addicted, they can get it free from the government and that just makes things worse.

what we do now is penalise the countries of origin until they have completely put a stop to production of these drugs.

blah blah blah caffiene is a drug too, you know. yes. we all know that. go back to your bong & your bob marley and stop pissing people off.

Tha Gopher

banaman wrote:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/text/story.asp?j=3245886&p=3z46y65&n=3246182

I've been saying for years that having a "war on drugs" doesn't work. I think its time to be adult about the "drugs problem" and just legalise ALL drugs but only from strictly licenced outlets, e.g. pharmacists, ONLY on production of photo i.d.

That way at least it takes the crooks out of the loop and also the quality is assured, plus the govt gets taxes and the courts aren't clogged with drug cases.

Good idea. Id rather see junkies have to steal even more to buy highly taxed expensive heroin from a chemist than give it to an awful drug dealing gangster.

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

You think it's difficult to buy drugs in Ireland? Ah to be so young and innocent again.

Yiv not heard of the drought so

Julep is right, drugs threads on boards inevitably turn into a war of words between people who smoke for their own perceived coolness of it (and then proceed to bore people with long winded essays on how weed is good and alcohol is awful, and then link to oh so unbiased sites like erowid to back up their claims) people who dont smoke at all and people like myself who like a smoke after work but know full well the stuff isnt particularly good for me, but is enjoyable. Much like when I slaughter down a dozen plus drinks on a Saturday night out, its not good for me in the long term but it blows off the steam. Hash/weed has no proven health benefits bar for those with MS etc. Quit pretending it does.

RedPlanet

How is legalising cannabis replacing one problem with another?
I don't recall hearing about Casualty wards in Amsterdam full of cannabis users.
Ever hear of a "drunk tank" where all the drunken louts get put into such and such cell as a result of their carryon?
Think of all the gards resources wasted dealing w/ drunken idiots.
Cannabis users on the other hand are chilled out and avoid confrontation.

oscarBravo

julep wrote:

go back to your bong & your bob marley and stop pissing people off.

Not a helpful contribution, julep. Banned for a week for attacking the poster.

BigWilly

So lets see. Ban (control???) alcohol, and keep everything else banned too.


Yea....That'll be mighty fun.
Screw it though, street prices for drugs are only a fraction of what they will be if they are legalised and taxed.

Voipjunkie

Mick86 wrote:

We could save even more if we legalised rape, robbery, murder and car theft. But then we'd find ourselves living in anarchy and our quality of life might suffer.:rolleyes:

Allowing adults to take a substance that is bad for their own health is hardly comparable to allowing activities that cause direct harm to other citizens.
Maybe we should ban driving and fast food as well.

Personally I dont partake of any illegal substances but if another adult wants to do that to themselves then the nanny state should not prevent them.
It can and should advise them of the dangers but if they still want to do it then go ahead.
As I have already said the paralells between the prohibition of Alcohol and the
prohibition of some drugs are obvious people still want it someone is going to supply it.
and we get murderous gangs of criminals all to willing to step into the breach and make pot loads of money and murder anyone who gets in their way.

Voipjunkie

Tha Gopher wrote:

Good idea. Id rather see junkies have to steal even more to buy highly taxed expensive heroin from a chemist than give it to an awful drug dealing gangster.



.

Put it on prescription and cover it under the medical card or the DPS

Unless you think all the junkies pay for their Methadone

Tha Gopher

So we should give them free heroin because theyre addicts? Should we give alcoholics free beer? Gambling addicts 100 euro of free government paid for bets per week?

RedPlanet- maybe the wards in the dam arent full of stoners. I wonder how many lung cancer cases in Jamaica or Morocco are related to an abundant supply and a lifetime of smoking?

Villain

First we need a huge overhaul of the prison system, inlcuding a new very large prison then we need a total ban on all drugs in prison's and proper rehab system in place.

Now lets resource the Gardai properly and lets make the decisions easier for the Judges with mandatory jail term for those convicted of pocession for sale or supply or those proven to have been involved in drug trafficking.

Now when I say resource properly I mean properly i.e. hundreds of millions. IMO the majority of serious crime in this country is drugs related so lets get tough now before its too late, thats if its not too late already.

RedPlanet

Tha Gopher wrote:

So we should give them free heroin because theyre addicts? Should we give alcoholics free beer? Gambling addicts 100 euro of free government paid for bets per week?

RedPlanet- maybe the wards in the dam arent full of stoners. I wonder how many lung cancer cases in Jamaica or Morocco are related to an abundant supply and a lifetime of smoking?

Did anybody make the call for free drugs?

Anyway you're misinterpreting things. I know that cannabis is not a healthy thing for someone to do. I'm not saying that is good for you.
But if you're making the case whereby cannabis shouldn't be legal because it promotes lung cancer then are you calling for tobacco to be similarly illegal for the same reasons?

Why exactly should alcohol be a legal drug and not cannabis?

I'm sure we all remember that European Cup match (was it Belgium/Holland 2000?) when there was an alcohol ban for a particular match, where cannabis was promoted in an effort to keep things free of violence.

oscarBravo

Unless this gets relevant to Politics real soon now it's off to Humanities.

Tha Gopher

RedPlanet wrote:

Did anybody make the call for free drugs?

.

Well, you said theyd get it off their medical card so essentially, yes, you did say the heroin would be free.

Im not against hash legalisation, nothing id like better than walking down the street smoking with impunity. But why ban alcohol? Becase some people get violent on it, hurt others under its influence? Some people are bad drivers, lets ban cars!

RedPlanet

Tha Gopher wrote:

Well, you said theyd get it off their medical card so essentially, yes, you did say the heroin would be free.

Um, no i didn't.

Tha Gopher wrote:

Im not against hash legalisation, nothing id like better than walking down the street smoking with impunity. But why ban alcohol? Becase some people get violent on it, hurt others under its influence? Some people are bad drivers, lets ban cars!

Something i would consider (after a massive, unprecedented investment in public transport) however i think the automotive industry has too much influence and people are lazy.

Frederico

julep wrote:

legalising drugs is not the answer. nor is prohibition.
the answer is to stop them at the source so that they don't get into the country in the first place. economic sanctions against the countries of origin would be the place to start. penalise colombia, afghanistan, morocco etc. for every kilo of coke/ heroin/ cannabis that comes into Ireland. let the governemnts of those countries get their finger out and start cracking down on the growers of these drugs.

So we'll take it out on the poor people of another country for our problem. Just like the Americans selling military hardware to the Columbian Gov to kill peasants (and a few drug lords). Its like trying to stop the supply of Alcohol into Ireland, its impossible. Its our social problem, we have to deal with it ourselves. I believe the banning of smoking in pubs (I'm a smoker) is the best and most successful drugs initiative this country has ever taken.

Sgt. Sensible

75% of inmates in mountjoy have drug related problems. Legalise soft drugs, make hard stuff available on prescription which will cut out addicts' tendency to burgle homes and mug people to feed their habit. This would free up a huge amount of garda resources to deal with proper crime. We could probably give a fair few of them the sack with any luck. Spend the saved cash on a state of the art rehab hospital for those with drug and alcohol problems.