ID cards for Immigrants

Elmo

Yes. I may be wrong, but I think that even citizens of most EU countries need to carry ID cards (not talking about biometric ones, btw). For example in Germany, it's normal for the coppers to stop you on the street and ask you for ID. It's happened to me hundreds of times - this is considered routine.

Why would they stop you no one has the right to stop anyone from just walking down the street. It is an abuse of power.

Being stopped by the Gardai should never been considered routine. I would panic if a garda stopped me.

Total Paranoia

Perhaps it is just different garda stations or immigrations officers.

Where in the country are you? It shouldn't be the case that the immigration office in your local area is sending your Passport up to Dublin offices, they should be able to print your GNIB card and stamp your passport in your local office.

But yes the GNIB office do hold on to peoples Passports.

sovtek

Anceint1:
In addition to what Elmo said...
You now have to pay for a GNIB card in addition to paying taxes like anyone else. It's already an outrageously high fee (€100) just to be able to live and work. If they bring in bio-metric then they will surely raise the fee a hundred €'s or two.
In essence that's taxing us for being foreignors.
To answer Elmo's question...yes Americans, NZ'landers and South Africans have to carry them.
Personally I probably won't have to abide Guardia harrasing me because I'm foreign looking, being a caucasian type American. It is a situation I'm concerned about though and think it most likely will be abused in that manner.

Ancient1

Ker wrote:

The first year I was here, the guard that deals with immigration took my passport and handed it back a few weeks later with my new GNIB card.

Maybe it's because you're not in Dublin and the GNIB HQ is here...but even so it's not right. Whenever I have to go to Burgh Quay here they hand me back my stuff within 5 minutes.

Elmo wrote:

Why would they stop you no one has the right to stop anyone from just walking down the street. It is an abuse of power.

You could certainly argue it that way, yes. But I'm talking about Germany and not some repressive backwater. But it happens and it's considered a routine check. If they have a reason to stop you (perhaps I don't look too friendly, perhaps I've had a few drinks too many, but perhaps I'm just carrying grocery bags), they're polite, run your ID through their onboard computer and, if everything's ok, you're free to go. That's it.

In my opinion, abuse of power is when a cop beats the crap out of you for no reason at all. And there's nothing you can do about it. That's where I'm from.

Edit: Sovtek, I heard about the fee. As with everything else here, the costs are always passed on to you.

Ker

Elmo wrote:

Where in the country are you? It shouldn't be the case that the immigration office in your local area is sending your Passport up to Dublin offices, they should be able to print your GNIB card and stamp your passport in your local office.

West Cork. Like I said, the garda didn't mind if I held onto it, but every year he's acted like it's completely normal to hand it in to them and wait until it all comes back with the new GNIB card.

Elmo

West Cork. Like I said, the garda didn't mind if I held onto it, but every year he's acted like it's completely normal to hand it in to them and wait until it all comes back with the new GNIB card.

GNIB don't even have the staff for the rollout of such a big plan. I mean that puts you in a difficult position. If he is sending it up to Dublin how come so many people who need re-entry visa and have been in the situation where there passport wasn't stamped in their local garda office (and yet have an up to date GNIB card) that when the visa office requires them to get their passport stamped by the Gardai it won't be stamped in dublin, GNIB require the stamp to go on in the local office. So now they have to go back to their local garda station and come back to the visa office. It's just stupid.

Maybe it's because you're not in Dublin and the GNIB HQ is here...but even so it's not right. Whenever I have to go to Burgh Quay here they hand me back my stuff within 5 minutes.

I have heard that some people have been waiting for 3 days before getting their GNIB card, in dublin all by appointment.

In my opinion, abuse of power is when a cop beats the crap out of you for no reason at all. And there's nothing you can do about it. That's where I'm from.

What are you from Donegal or the Six Counties?

When I heard that the GNIB card went from 0euro to 100euro I was shocked. Where they came up with that I do not know? The government are making millions out of Visas and GNIB cards.

Ker

It's probably to make up for the VRT they have to revoke!

sovtek

Elmo wrote:

When I heard that the GNIB card went from 0euro to 100euro I was shocked. Where they came up with that I do not know? The government are making millions out of Visas and GNIB cards.

Actually I don't think they are making millions out of it. If you don't have a credit card (and many immigrants wouldn't) the process just to pay the fee probably cost more than what they bring in from it. It's unweildly. As well you have to wait over a week and then have to sit and wait again to get your card.
In their minds I'm thinking its a case of "keep the n***rs out". I certainly think McDowell is a racist even though he may not realize it.

Elmo

Actually I don't think they are making millions out of it. If you don't have a credit card (and many immigrants wouldn't) the process just to pay the fee probably cost more than what they bring in from it.

Most people either have Debit or Credit Cards. Most banks now give you a debit card with your current account.

You are able to pay by Bank Giro and the visa office only accepts Postal/Bank Orders.

partholon

while ive no problem with deporting people who break the law who're non EU citizens i do have a big problem with the card. if your here legally why the hell should you be treated any different than the rest of us personally i think its a way to get a national identity card by the back door. the force this on the non EU community , the civil liberties and equality authority types give out and take a case and then the government decide the only fair system (since weve invested so much in it) is to make everyone in the country carry one

MacDowells been trying this **** for years.

by the way am i the only one laughing at the comments by people on this in regards to the deporting issue saying " if we deport them we should deport our own too !" complealty missing the fact that if were deporting non eu citzens to their own country that means we'd be deporting irish citizens to......ireland

ya gotta love the way some people think

Elmo

by the way am i the only one laughing at the comments by people on this in regards to the deporting issue saying " if we deport them we should deport our own too !" complealty missing the fact that if were deporting non eu citzens to their own country that means we'd be deporting irish citizens to......ireland

In the early years of the state we used to send our criminals to Britian

partholon

Elmo wrote:

In the early years of the state we used to send our criminals to Britian

i thought we sent em to the dail

dochasach

McDowell's ID card plan isn't meant to make sense, it's intended to allow him to tell constituents that he "did something about those immigrants."

I don't know what is more disturbing, the fact that so many Irish still blame immigrants for every social ill, or the fact that politicians are so inclined to take advantage of xenophobia to increase their power.

Lets see, during the last election, "citizenship tourists" and "asylum seekers" were blamed for problems with Ireland's maternity hospitals. So the government passed anti-immigrant laws and now the number of asylum seekers is lower than it was 10 years ago (before Ireland became one of the most prosperous countries on the planet.) More than 9 months have passed since the new laws were enacted. Have the maternity hospitals improved?

More recently, immigrants were blamed for Ireland's high rate of traffic fatalities, on the basis of anecdotes about Polish and Russian immigrants, ignoring the fact that we had one of the worst per/km traffic fatality rates in the world before they arrived.

Now when we're looking for a scapegoat for unaffordable housing, who do we blame? Planning corruption, speculators sitting on 250,000 empty homes?, Banks, Estate Agents, greed? No, we blame the fraction of FTBs who are immigrants.

And yet Bertie cheerfully grovels on behalf of illegal Irish immigrants in the U.S.

mchalem4

Hi all,

I'm a DCU journalism student and am writing a feature article on the proposed immigration, residence and protection bill. I would love to hear your opinions on the proposed bill and if there is any migrant workers living in Ireland that have an opinion on immigration laws here I'd love to hear from you or talk to to you in person. Thanks.

Lou.m

If those immigrants are getting id cards i want one too! I want an id card,i want an id card,:D I WANT AN ID CARD! GIMME GIMME GIMME!:D :
I think the civil service has enough trouble keeping up with issuing passports, drivers licences and such without this there would be like a five year waiting list.
Plus as it may have been asked what differance would it make? Illegal papers are how illegal immigrants work here anyway so why would this help so much? Plus the fact that i actually think this country would collapse without the help of these people are economy needs them at this stage. Plus it would be pointless who is going to check all immigrants have id, the surpluss of underworked gardai we have?;) I don't think it would change a thing. Plus i believe it does infringe on civil liberties and in my opinion if they brought it in for immigrants it would not be long until they brought it in for us and we would all be on a hundred year waiting list for id cards. :eek:

vda

sovtek wrote: »

I've always been asked for my GNIB card.

Sorry for a bit of off-topic. I was working in Ireland, but then quit and now have found another employer, again in Ireland. But I am not in Ireland at the moment, so I will need to fly back. I am not from EU country (Ukraine).

I still have GNIB card and it has not expired (valid till July 2008). Visa which was issued to me, though, expired (it was for 3 months only). It seems to be common practice - all my former co-workers also had such "short" visas and "longer" GNIB cards.

Guys, in your experience, do I need to have a new visa in order to cross the border, or GNIB card (and, naturally, passport) is enough?

Law seems to be a bit confusing. It seems to say that GNIB and a passport stamp ("Permitted to remain till XXX yadda yadda"), which was stamped in passport when I got the card, seem to allow me to _stay_ in the country, but does not allow to _enter_ it. wtf?! So I am asking, what happens in practice in airport? Do you guys (those who travel) have visa in addition to GNIB card and stamp in passport?

Victor

I think you might need to get a visa, but talk to the Embassy.

Elmo

The GNIB card does not allow you travel into Ireland. It only allows you reside in Ireland for the period stated on the card.

If you plan to go out of Ireland and then return you must have a valid Irish Re-entry Visa.

There are two types of Re-entry visas. A single costing 60 euro which allows you reenter Ireland within 90days of its issue (or if your GNIB card expires before the 90days the expiry of your GNIB card), it expires as soon as you reenter the country or at the end of the 90days (which ever comes first).

The second is a Multiple entry visa, it cost 100 euro and is valid up to the expiry of your GNIB card. You may enter the state as many times as you like up until its expire.

The Visa lets you enter the country, but it is up to the immigration officer at the port of entry if you can actually enter. The GNIB card allows you to remain in the country.

All non-EU nationals must have a valid GNIB card, however some countries are not VISA required e.g. Canada, USA, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand etc.

GNIB cards are not Identity cards. :rolleyes:

Ukraine citizens are required to have a valid re-entry visa, stamp and GNIB if re-entering the country.

If they are coming in for the first time or on a visit they are required to have a valid Visa as issued by the Irish Mission in the Ukraine. The immigration officer will stamp your passport on arrival.

If you are married to an EU national you may apply for EU Treaty Rights which allows you travel in and out of Ireland without a Visa (You are still required to have a GNIB card). You will need a UK visa to enter Northern Ireland.

I still have GNIB card and it has not expired (valid till July 2008). Visa which was issued to me, though, expired (it was for 3 months only). It seems to be common practice - all my former co-workers also had such "short" visas and "longer" GNIB cards.

First time entry visas are only Single visas and expired as soon as you enter the state. hence the difference in dates. You only have to renew the visa if you are travelling.

Also it sounds like you will need to get a first time entry visa from the Irish Mission in the Ukraine and a new GNIB card. Sorry!

bonkey

New_Departure06 wrote: »

It will help combat illegal immigration into this country,

Currently, an illegal immigrant is someone who does not have the paperwork they should have to prove that they are here legally.
With the new system, an illegal immigrant is someone who does not have the paperwork they should have including an id to prove that they are here legally.

How, exactly, will this change anything?

help prevent abuse of the social-welfare system by multiple-ID scam-artists that have been reported on in the press over the years.

How? If someone can be a "multiple ID" scam artist today, why can't they be a "multiple ID" scam artist under the new system. If they're able to scam the system into believing they're multiple people, how hard can it be to scam the system into thinking they're multiple people who don't need biometric ID cards?

Having an ID-card with biometric information will eliminate the risk of identity-fraud

Having a national database of biometric information, and a mandatory ID card that everyone carried, which contained only the lookup key for the info in the national database would reduce the risk of identity-fraud. Allowing that certain people need not be on the system, and allowing the information to be stored on the card rather than centrally reduces the entire thing to what Bruce Schneier terms Security Theater.

and help crack down on criminals who may be using a false ID to evade justice.

If criminals can get false IDs today, they can get false IDs under the new system....especially since the new ID only applies to a subset of the population. Falsify the necessary information to put yourself in the section of the population which doesn't need the new ID, and off you go. More Security Theater.

Studoc

Totally agree. ID cards will just pander to the right wing "they're taking our jobs/women/men/keep Ireland Irish blah blah blah" right wing unthinking rabble.

So clearly there is'nt a hope of them not being introduced.

purple'n'gold

Studoc wrote: »

Totally agree. ID cards will just pander to the right wing "they're taking our jobs/women/men/keep Ireland Irish blah blah blah" right wing unthinking rabble.

So clearly there is'nt a hope of them not being introduced.

It’s a bit extreme to describe people who have right wing or nationalistic views as rabble. Just because some groups of people do not agree with your views does not make them rabble.

Studoc

purplengold wrote: »

It’s a bit extreme to describe people who have right wing or nationalistic views as rabble. Just because some groups of people do not agree with your views does not make them rabble.

That would be extreme alright. However I only referred to those who want to "keep Ireland for the Irish" etc as an unthinking rabble.

Elmo

Any Irish person with Nationalistic Right wing views should read a history book.

Republicanism in its true sence = Equality. However both SF and PD politicans have taken that away from most true Republicans.

purple'n'gold

Elmo wrote: »

Any Irish person with Nationalistic Right wing views should read a history book.

Republicanism in its true sence = Equality. However both SF and PD politicans have taken that away from most true Republicans.

Leaving aside the dictionary’s definition of republicanism, it can be whatever the individual wants it to be. A French person’s idea of republicanism might differ than an Australians idea of it. A French persons idea of it may be, equality, fraternity etc. An Australians might simply be, get rid of the queen. Ireland’s idea of republicanism is, “sure it’s grand as long as it’s not British”.

Elmo

Leaving aside the dictionary’s definition of republicanism, it can be whatever the individual wants it to be. A French person’s idea of republicanism might differ than an Australians idea of it. A French persons idea of it may be, equality, fraternity etc. An Australians might simply be, get rid of the queen. Ireland’s idea of republicanism is, “sure it’s grand as long as it’s not British”.

Depends on the Austrailian e.g. Aborigionals may actually look for equality.

As an Irish Republican I take offence to "sure it's grand as long as it's not British". We where looking for equal rights. The SDLP looked for rights in the 1960's in NI. And so on.

I think you would be better of using the US where Republicanism means something different.

RedPlanet

dochasach wrote: »

Now when we're looking for a scapegoat for unaffordable housing, who do we blame? Planning corruption, speculators sitting on 250,000 empty homes?, Banks, Estate Agents, greed? No, we blame the fraction of FTBs who are immigrants.

And yet Bertie cheerfully grovels on behalf of illegal Irish immigrants in the U.S.

Sorry to drag this off topic, but i'm curious to hear about this 250,000 empty homes.
Where is figure from? I'd like to know more.

Elmo

Sorry to drag this off topic, but i'm curious to hear about this 250,000 empty homes.

He could be talking about Holiday Homes and Investment homes. Certain investors have built house for tax purposes AFAIK. I don't know the details.

Now when we're looking for a scapegoat for unaffordable housing, who do we blame? Planning corruption, speculators sitting on 250,000 empty homes?, Banks, Estate Agents, greed? No, we blame the fraction of FTBs who are immigrants.

The Minister for Education is about to start on them in a few weeks. Not that the cenus ever suggests that we should build more Schools rather then to lay off a load of school teachers.