Changing to Diesel

bucks73

Changing to a diesel engine soon and the 2 models I have narrowed it down to are a 2003 BMW 320D and 2004/2005 Opel Vectra 1.9 or 2.2.

Anyone here driving either have any comments to make?

I have a 2001 Vectra atm but my drive to work is now longer and its costing me more on petrol. I like the Vectras but have seen a 320D for 25000 in Limerick and am very tempted.

Just wondering what kind of mileage people are getting from a full tank of diesel and how much that costs. Getting about 350 miles from a full tank now so anything is an improvement.

Wishbone Ash

bucks73 wrote:

I like the Vectras

My wife has one and I drive it occasionally. I'm afraid I can't think of one redeeming feature about it. A truely awful car.

Dilbert75

I'd have the opposite opinion. Had the last model (diesel) and liked it a lot. Averaged 47mpg (2.0Di) on an 18-mile trip each way (13 miles open road, 5 miles traffic). Have driven the new model numerous times and liked it too.

frasr

The Diesel Vectra's aren't great, has a reputation (deserved!) for burning oil.

The Audi A4 & VW passat 1.9TDI are great diesels, if your open to other cars.

Don't know much about the BMW, but prob the best website to get the lowdown on any car is

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/ and use the Car-By_Car Breakdown link
and
http://www.cbg.ie/reader_reviews/default.asp (& find the car you want)

Wishbone Ash

frasr wrote:

The Diesel Vectra's aren't great, has a reputation (deserved!) for burning oil.

Yup, about a litre a month. You have to fill the oil and check the diesel!

junkyard

If you can justify the road tax you should go for a BMW 525 turbo diesel, a truly stunning car in fairness to it. Forget your VW/Audis and Opels, they're not even in the same league.

crosstownk

Of the two you mention there is no contest. The Beemer wins hands down. The Vectra diesels are not the worst, but the car is so bland - no style or flair whatsoever. The 320d is a nice motor - comfortable and well balanced.

If it was my choice I'd go for the BMW. But not before I checked out an A4. The Audi 1.9 TDI engines are nice motors too.

professore

Have a look at Peugeot 407 / Citroen C5 HDi's as well - great engines.

junkyard

The Peugeot/Citroen engine is stunning in fairness but the bodys and electrics are a disaster.

Dilbert75

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Yup, about a litre a month. You have to fill the oil and check the diesel!

Funnily my 97 never burned a drop but the previous owner bought a 00 when she traded mine in and said it burnt oil alright.

colm_mcm

the 1.9 is the fabulous Fiat multijet engine.

fletch

Go for the 320D.....Vectra has to be one of the worst handling cars I've ever driven.

professore

junkyard wrote:

The Peugeot/Citroen engine is stunning in fairness but the bodys and electrics are a disaster.

That's not been my experience - the wife and I have had a 309, a Xantia (diesels) and a ZX (petrol) and near the end the old 309 did have a few rust spots - but in fairness was 10 years old at that stage and had been crashed (not by me - I got it cheap!). Only electrical problem was a failed starter motor on the 309 - got stuck in the on position, and was very tough to stop the engine! And of course the faulty airbag light sensor on the Xantia - a well known problem.

Otherwise apart from a few flat batteries over the years, no electrical problems to speak of. The Xantia is a fantastic car - drives like a top-end Merc and has now got 135k miles on the clock and had 95k when I got it, and have had no problems whatsoever. The Turbo D that I have does about 43 mpg combined but the HDi version will do 50+ combined driving and 60 on long runs. I can't understand the bad rep they have - have a look at how many are being used as taxis and hackneys if you think they have lots of problems!

colm_mcm

I can't remember the last time I saw a Xantia as a taxi. and it's well known that they have lots of problems, I'm not out to slag your car off yours may have given you no trouble, but anyone recomending a Xantia on the basis of them being reliable needs to have a chat with a Citroen mechanic, salesman, or other Xantia owners.

junkyard

katrien_ie wrote:

That's not been my experience - the wife and I have had a 309, a Xantia (diesels) and a ZX (petrol) and near the end the old 309 did have a few rust spots - but in fairness was 10 years old at that stage and had been crashed (not by me - I got it cheap!). Only electrical problem was a failed starter motor on the 309 - got stuck in the on position, and was very tough to stop the engine! And of course the faulty airbag light sensor on the Xantia - a well known problem.

Otherwise apart from a few flat batteries over the years, no electrical problems to speak of. The Xantia is a fantastic car - drives like a top-end Merc and has now got 135k miles on the clock and had 95k when I got it, and have had no problems whatsoever. The Turbo D that I have does about 43 mpg combined but the HDi version will do 50+ combined driving and 60 on long runs. I can't understand the bad rep they have - have a look at how many are being used as taxis and hackneys if you think they have lots of problems!

Tbh honest with you I think you've been extremely lucky. The older Peugeots weren't as bad but the modern ones are utter s**te. As for the Citroen, I don't think they've made a decent car since the DS and even that was an acquired taste. Ask any garage man in the land about Citroen or Peugeot and they shudder at the thought. All you have to do is look at the trade-in values of cars in general and you'll soon find whats hot and whats not, with the exception of VW, whose loyal supporters are busy covering up the oil leaks and component failures and praising the marque all the way.:rolleyes:

bazz26

Dilbert75 wrote:

Funnily my 97 never burned a drop but the previous owner bought a 00 when she traded mine in and said it burnt oil alright.

Your 97 model probably has the Isuzu diesel engine which was a very good unit, the 00 model had GM's own oil burner.

professore

junkyard wrote:

Tbh honest with you I think you've been extremely lucky. The older Peugeots weren't as bad but the modern ones are utter s**te. As for the Citroen, I don't think they've made a decent car since the DS and even that was an acquired taste. Ask any garage man in the land about Citroen or Peugeot and they shudder at the thought. All you have to do is look at the trade-in values of cars in general and you'll soon find whats hot and whats not, with the exception of VW, whose loyal supporters are busy covering up the oil leaks and component failures and praising the marque all the way.:rolleyes:

Can't speak for the latest new Peugeot / Citroens but just speaking from personal experience. BTW Peugeot and Citroens are virtually identical mechanically and electrically so making a distinction is a bit pointless, except maybe with the Xantia / C5 suspensions. My boss drove an A4 and had nothing but probems, with the gearbox failing at 60 k - and they have fantastic trade in values.

Finally, have a look at this : http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/trends4.html?apc=3128339010848601

BMW does quite poorly here - and bear in mind that these are unbiased insurance company figures rather than "facts" that "everyone knows".

junkyard

Citroen and Peugeot were a bit more individual in the past even though they used similar engines. The latest Citroens and Peugeots are virtually built side by side, so I too would regard the later ones as virtually the same cars. As for Audi....VW build Audis so I rest my case there, quality seems to be a thing of the past for most modern car manufacturers.
I wouldn't rely too much on these reports tbh, if I looked hard enough I'll probably find another one with a completely different set of results...there are loads of different ones for different facts and figures.
I could say to you that from personal experience I never had a days trouble from any of my last 8 BMWs and I base all my facts on these...others will rush in and say "BMWs are sh*te, I got three punctures last year...never again" Its all relevant really.

professore

junkyard wrote:

Citroen and Peugeot were a bit more individual in the past even though they used similar engines. The latest Citroens and Peugeots are virtually built side by side, so I too would regard the later ones as virtually the same cars. As for Audi....VW build Audis so I rest my case there, quality seems to be a thing of the past for most modern car manufacturers.
I wouldn't rely too much on these reports tbh, if I looked hard enough I'll probably find another one with a completely different set of results...there are loads of different ones for different facts and figures.

Fair enough. I guess QC is so bad that you get good and bad cars (outside Japan at least) and it's a bit of a lucky dip sometimes...

junkyard

There not all there cracked up to be in Japan either. Cars nowadays are only designed to last for so long, if they lasted any longer the manufacturers wouldn't sell new cars so its in their best interest for cars to break down after a few years.

Eoin

bucks73 wrote:

Changing to a diesel engine soon and the 2 models I have narrowed it down to are a 2003 BMW 320D and 2004/2005 Opel Vectra 1.9 or 2.2.

Anyone here driving either have any comments to make?

I have a 2001 Vectra atm but my drive to work is now longer and its costing me more on petrol. I like the Vectras but have seen a 320D for 25000 in Limerick and am very tempted.

Just wondering what kind of mileage people are getting from a full tank of diesel and how much that costs. Getting about 350 miles from a full tank now so anything is an improvement.

Sorry to interrupt your rant Junkyard, but I thought I may go on topic again. This may keep you occupied.

@bucks73: The 320d is a nice car alright, and seems to come better specced than other 3 models as standard too. The 2003 model is probably around 150BHP, which is pretty nippy.

The one thing I found is that the actual MPG is around 40MPG, as opposed to the manufacturer's stated 49MPG. I'm not in traffic for much of my journey either, though a good chunk of it is at 120KMH, which is probably where fuel economy may go down again.

Also bear in mind that diesels need servicing more, and if things go wrong with a BMW, they are bound to cost. The same thing probably won't go wrong twice though.

JHMEG

How about an Accord 2.2 (diesel) Executive? Smart looking machine, smoothest diesel on the market, leather everything, and unheard of reliabilty...

junkyard

eoin_s wrote:

Sorry to interrupt your rant Junkyard, but I thought I may go on topic again. This may keep you occupied.

@bucks73: The 320d is a nice car alright, and seems to come better specced than other 3 models as standard too. The 2003 model is probably around 150BHP, which is pretty nippy.

The one thing I found is that the actual MPG is around 40MPG, as opposed to the manufacturer's stated 49MPG. I'm not in traffic for much of my journey either, though a good chunk of it is at 120KMH, which is probably where fuel economy may go down again.

Also bear in mind that diesels need servicing more, and if things go wrong with a BMW, they are bound to cost. The same thing probably won't go wrong twice though.

I don't have enough money to get them all scrapped.:)

bucks73

Thanks to all the replies. I think the 320D is favourite but will definitely look at the A4 and probably the Accord too.

Most of my driving will be around 100kph so it looks like these will be the most economical and definitely an improvement on my current car.

Thanks again.

professore

bucks73 wrote:

Thanks to all the replies. I think the 320D is favourite but will definitely look at the A4 and probably the Accord too.

Most of my driving will be around 100kph so it looks like these will be the most economical and definitely an improvement on my current car.

Thanks again.

I haven't managed to convince you then

furtzy

Have a Vectra 1.9 CDTi (150 bhp) and its a cracking car. I've had 3 vectra's and only had minor issues with them. Hatchback is great with a huge boot.

Had the 2.2 DTi before the current car and it was very good but the new Fiat multijet engine is miles better. more refined and lot more torque

prospect

The best diesels imo are:

1. Fiat/Alfa - MultiJet Diesel Engines
2. PSA - 1.6 Hdi
3. BMW


Not going to get into the quality argument, but my family & in laws have owned over 20 Peugeots & Citroens over the years, and up to now only one gave a recurring problem. An management system light kept coming on, the car drove perfectly. The problem couldn't be sorted, so the dealer upgraded it the following January for a song. So, it seems we have been very lucky many times!

bucks73

katrien_ie wrote:

I haven't managed to convince you then

Lol...sorry but Im just not a fan of either to look at so they would be out straight away for me.

furtzy wrote:

Have a Vectra 1.9 CDTi (150 bhp) and its a cracking car. I've had 3 vectra's and only had minor issues with them. Hatchback is great with a huge boot

A mate also had one and loved it, thats why I had it in my mind. Plus I have a Vectra at the moment and really like it.

Mc-BigE

I have a 320d, its a cracking car, my advice is go for a late 2002 facelift 150bhp model, as the earlier 150bhp models may have problems with turbos blowing.
BMW fixed this about Sept 2002. (1999 to 2001 320d models are 136bhp should be a lot cheaper)
The 4 cylinder diesel engine can be noisy, the 6 cylinder 330d is much quieter but would be harder to sell on with 1100euro road tax, compared to the 540euro 320d road tax.

There are some cracking deals out there, 25k for a 2003 saloon seems steep to me, have a look at BMW dealer 12 month warranty, if you haggle well for a cash deal, it could be a lifesaver if something blows, like a turbo!

My Car doesn't need oil top up very week! But it will burn small amounts maybe 0.5 litre every 6-12 months, not to be concerned about.

If you use Castrol SLX fully synthetic oil, the car can go about 13k miles between services (the service indicator computer will tell you depending on how hard/easy you drive)


Car does on average 45mpg ,minds a touring so a saloon would do better. about 570miles to 60litre tank.

one other thing to look out for if buying private is if there is noticable trottle delay or "flatspoting" in the accleration of the car in 2nd or 3rd gear, then the Air flow meter needs to be replaced (common problem in the 320d) about 300euro plus labour
hope that helps.

Lex Luthor

JHMEG wrote:

How about an Accord 2.2 (diesel) Executive? Smart looking machine, smoothest diesel on the market, leather everything, and unheard of reliabilty...

My friend bought a new one 6 months ago and he loves it.

Am I right in thinking that a lot of engines are shared between different manufacturers?

A lot of you guys seem to be in the know about this. Any chance someone could post up a list of cars/manufacturers and list the ones together that share the same diesel engine?

furtzy

bucks73 wrote:

A mate also had one and loved it, thats why I had it in my mind. Plus I have a Vectra at the moment and really like it.

Go for a test drive in the 150bhp SRi model.....I'm sure you'll like it

Stephen

My ould fella bought a new Accord 2.2 i-CTDI executive several months ago too, changed from a 2003 BMW 318i petrol, and he's loving it. Getting 52mpg, mostly open road driving. Its saving him a lot of money as he does crazy miles. It comes with more gadgets than you can shake a stick at - traction control, heated seats, dual zone A/C, electric everything, sunroof, cd changer, blah, blah, blah.

Its quite nippy too, really beats the crap out of my 1.6 petrol, but that's not very surprising.

bucks73

Mc-BigE wrote:

There are some cracking deals out there, 25k for a 2003 saloon seems steep to me, have a look at BMW dealer 12 month warranty, if you haggle well for a cash deal, it could be a lifesaver if something blows, like a turbo!

Ive just been looking online for now ( www.bmw.ie www.cbg.ie www.carzone.ie ) and most 2003 320Ds have been around the 25000 - 30000 mark. I intend to get out around Limerick dealers soon but where else should I be looking?

Mc-BigE

bucks73 wrote:

Ive just been looking online for now ( www.bmw.ie www.cbg.ie www.carzone.ie ) and most 2003 320Ds have been around the 25000 - 30000 mark. I intend to get out around Limerick dealers soon but where else should I be looking?

you can get cheaper than 25K, but i suppose you need to take condition/mileage/private or dealer prices into consideration.
carzone is one of the best places to look:

If your not worried about traveling or trading-in, have a look at importing one from UK, book a weekend in london a go have a look at www.cargiant.co.uk
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&MakeID=3&xMakeID=3&ColourID=&xColourID=&ModelID=20&xModelID=20&Doors=&BodyID=&Engine_Min=&Year_Min=2002&Engine_Max=&Year_Max=2003&Price_Min=&Price_Min_integer=Minimum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&CountyID=&xCountyID=&Price_Max=&Price_Max_integer=Maximum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&BusinessID=&xBusinessID=&IsPrivateSale=&FuelID=2&SortBy=MakeAsc&MaxRows=100&InsertPeriod=&ResultFormat=&submit=Find+%3E%3E

colm_mcm

Here are the ones I know of

PSA 1.6 diesel used in:
Volvo S40, Peugeot 207, 307, 407. Citroen C4, C5. Ford Focus, Volvo S40, mini

Fiat Multijet 1.9 diesel used in:
Alfa 159, Fiat Croma, Opel Vectra, Astra, Signum, (possibly Vivaro)

Fiat Multijet 1.3 diesel used in
Fiat Doblo, Punto, Panda, Opel Corsa, Meriva, Astra, Combo, Suzuki Swift.

VW 2.0 TDI used in (apart from VAG)
Mitsubishi Grandis

Renault dCI used in (apart from Renault)
Nissan Almera, Note, Primera

Toyota 1.4 D-4D
mini (not any more)

Lex Luthor

colm_mcm wrote:

Here are the ones I know of

PSA 1.6 diesel used in:
Volvo S40, Peugeot 207, 307, 407. Citroen C4, C5. Ford Focus, Volvo S40, mini

Fiat Multijet 1.9 diesel used in:
Alfa 159, Fiat Croma, Opel Vectra, Astra, Signum, (possibly Vivaro)

Fiat Multijet 1.3 diesel used in
Fiat Doblo, Punto, Panda, Opel Corsa, Meriva, Astra, Combo, Suzuki Swift.

VW 2.0 TDI used in (apart from VAG)
Mitsubishi Grandis

Renault dCI used in (apart from Renault)
Nissan Almera, Note, Primera

Toyota 1.4 D-4D
mini (not any more)

thanks colm...any idea which ones top the charts and which ones don't?

pburns

colm_mcm wrote:

Here are the ones I know of

PSA 1.6 diesel used in:
Volvo S40, Peugeot 207, 307, 407. Citroen C4, C5. Ford Focus, Volvo S40, mini

Fiat Multijet 1.9 diesel used in:
Alfa 159, Fiat Croma, Opel Vectra, Astra, Signum, (possibly Vivaro)

Fiat Multijet 1.3 diesel used in
Fiat Doblo, Punto, Panda, Opel Corsa, Meriva, Astra, Combo, Suzuki Swift.

VW 2.0 TDI used in (apart from VAG)
Mitsubishi Grandis

Renault dCI used in (apart from Renault)
Nissan Almera, Note, Primera

Toyota 1.4 D-4D
mini (not any more)

PSA 1.6 also in Mazda 3 saloon

colm_mcm

the biggest selling engine would be the PSA 1.6 as it's used in so many different cars.

Mailman

all these diesels mentioned above and I'd still take a 2 year old Auto Diesel(BMW) Rover 75 Connisseur SE with all the trimmings in preference to any of them.

Conar

I've recently moved to diesel and bought a 1.9TDi Seat Leon.
Its a great car, I'm sure its not everyones cup of tea though.

I'll never drive a petrol car again though, I'm just confused as to what took me so long to drive a diesel in the first place.

colm_mcm

Rover 75's are temptingly cheap

Mc-BigE

Mailman wrote:

all these diesels mentioned above and I'd still take a 2 year old Auto Diesel(BMW) Rover 75 Connisseur SE with all the trimmings in preference to any of them.

Yes, it’s another good choice, but you need to buy it extra cheap, because resale on a rover (even the diesel 75) will be very bad.
I was never a fan of the looks though, especially the back.

Lex Luthor

colm_mcm wrote:

Here are the ones I know of

PSA 1.6 diesel used in:
Volvo S40, Peugeot 207, 307, 407. Citroen C4, C5. Ford Focus, Volvo S40, mini

Fiat Multijet 1.9 diesel used in:
Alfa 159, Fiat Croma, Opel Vectra, Astra, Signum, (possibly Vivaro)

Fiat Multijet 1.3 diesel used in
Fiat Doblo, Punto, Panda, Opel Corsa, Meriva, Astra, Combo, Suzuki Swift.

VW 2.0 TDI used in (apart from VAG)
Mitsubishi Grandis

Renault dCI used in (apart from Renault)
Nissan Almera, Note, Primera

Toyota 1.4 D-4D
mini (not any more)

what about BMW/Honda/Lexus diesels? Are they in their own bracket or under one of these?

pburns

The FIAT group Multijet 1.9 diesel is probably the best sub-2 litre diesel engine & it's ideal for Irish tax-breaks etc. Problem is it only comes in the Vectra, Astra or Alfa 159 (I'm ignoring the various sprog wagons).

Lismards in Portlaoise have had this 159 demo online for months & it hasn't sold. If a desirable model like this doesn't walk out of the showroom couldn't see them holding value in the long term.... Then again, this example is probably good VFM for a pretty great car (until the electrics start packing up). I think Alfa shot their bolt here in the late '90s when so many 156s were sold on looks & style & they proved quite troublesome.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=428550

Vectra is a POS, 'nuff said..

An top-end Astra with 150bhp diesel? Perhaps a sporthatch?

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=395839

Lotta money for an Astra though...

prospect

pburns wrote:

The FIAT group Multijet 1.9 diesel is probably the best sub-2 litre diesel engine & it's ideal for Irish tax-breaks etc. Problem is it only comes in the Vectra, Astra or Alfa 159 (I'm ignoring the various sprog wagons).

The 1.9 comes in two guises, the 120bhp and the 150bhp. Obviously the 150bhp is the one you want.

It is also available in the Alfa GT, the Alfa 147, the Suzuki Grand Vitara, most opels. Generally all GM cars in europe will soon be using this deisel engine.

furtzy

prospect wrote:

The 1.9 comes in two guises, the 120bhp and the 150bhp. Obviously the 150bhp is the one you want.

It is also available in the Alfa GT, the Alfa 147, the Suzuki Grand Vitara, most opels. Generally all GM cars in europe will soon be using this deisel engine.

Grand Vitara is a renault engine.

furtzy

pburns wrote:

Vectra is a POS, 'nuff said..

..

Just curious to know how many you've owned and what problems you've had to form that opinion

prospect

furtzy wrote:

Grand Vitara is a renault engine.

You may be right, but I thought they were switching out the the FIAT one .

prospect

http://www.automotoportal.com/article/New_Suzuki_SX4
They will be joined later in the year by a 120 PS 1.9 litre DDiS diesel derivative which uses a highly flexible engine supplied by Fiat.

http://www.globalsuzuki.com/globalnews/2004/0519.html
Suzuki Motor Corporation has entered into a Product License Agreement with FIAT AUTO S.p.A (Italy) and Adam Opel AG (Germany) to obtain Technology for manufacturing 4-cylindar 1.3L diesel engines with Common Rail Injection System at Maruti Udyog Limited from the end of 2006.

furtzy

prospect wrote:

http://www.automotoportal.com/article/New_Suzuki_SX4
They will be joined later in the year by a 120 PS 1.9 litre DDiS diesel derivative which uses a highly flexible engine supplied by Fiat.

Fiat sure are doing well with their diesels. They really should go for the 150 PS version.

Drove the diesel Grand Vitara when it came out first....nice car but needs a little more oomph. Best looking small 4X4 out there though

Mr Magnolia

Mc-BigE wrote:

I have a 320d, its a cracking car, my advice is go for a late 2002 facelift 150bhp model, as the earlier 150bhp models may have problems with turbos blowing.
BMW fixed this about Sept 2002. (1999 to 2001 320d models are 136bhp should be a lot cheaper)
There are some cracking deals out there, 25k for a 2003 saloon seems steep to me, have a look at BMW dealer 12 month warranty, if you haggle well for a cash deal, it could be a lifesaver if something blows, like a turbo!

My Car doesn't need oil top up very week! But it will burn small amounts maybe 0.5 litre every 6-12 months, not to be concerned about.

If you use Castrol SLX fully synthetic oil, the car can go about 13k miles between services (the service indicator computer will tell you depending on how hard/easy you drive)


Car does on average 45mpg ,minds a touring so a saloon would do better. about 570miles to 60litre tank.

one other thing to look out for if buying private is if there is noticable trottle delay or "flatspoting" in the accleration of the car in 2nd or 3rd gear, then the Air flow meter needs to be replaced (common problem in the 320d) about 300euro plus labour
hope that helps.

Great stuff. I'm getting a late 2002 320d - 150bhp in jan (all going well). I drove a golf GTTDI 190bhp before(it had been re-mapped, not my car BTW). I might get the BMW re-mapped.

Dilbert75 wrote:

Funnily my 97 never burned a drop but the previous owner bought a 00 when she traded mine in and said it burnt oil alright.

Same as that and it's not an Isuzu.