DTT Channel Speculation

Elmo

Not RTE gear, not RTE network. BT Network. I don't think a content manager is appointed yet.

I am assuming that the BT network is newer then RTE's why didn't the Government force them out of the east coast and over to the west, north west, south east or south of the country. I understant that BT have to make money but surely this contract from the government is lucrative enough not to worry about where the network is based. De-centralisation DCMNR

watty

It is just a trail to convince EU we are doing something. BT simply won a DMCR contract.

The DTT national licence has been for sale since 2000/2001. No-one is offereing to buy it, hence no Nationwide DTT.

Claremont Cairn and Three Rock may have no significance other than ease of access for those doing the Trial and the DMCR.

The BT "network" simply deleivers the DTT signals from City West to Three Rock and Claremont Cairn. AFAIK it doesn't go anywhere else.

lucernarian

My mistakes. I forgot that RTÉ are not actually running the trial. But the question still stands. Will BT modify the trial any time soon?

Elmo

It is just a trail to convince EU we are doing something. BT simply won a DMCR contract.

And I am assuming that it is a very lucrative contract

What abouts IT's TV?

doh.ie

Elmo wrote:

And I am assuming that it is a very lucrative contract

What abouts IT's TV?

Far as I know, they either withdrew or were not offered the contract to run DTT in Ireland and were never heard of again. It may be because they had positioned themselves more or less to be the kind of company Magnet now is, albeit over the airwaves. (Some details or what they were about back in 2002 here: http://web.archive.org/web/20050208072026/http://www.itstv.ie/)

Some mention of their pulling out here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-66001.html

watty

No-one beleived their business plan and that they had enough capital.

They wanted to use the wireless interactive DVB-RCT for "broadband" but (a) they did not have a broadband licence, (b) While the DVB-RCT upstream channel and downstream are both Mbps, this is shared with all 50,000 people or however many there are on each TV mast so wouldn't have been more than 300bps (i.e. it is designed for "press Red to buy or Vote Green, Yellow, Red or Violet for answer)

They pulled out according to themselves, according to Regulator they didn't meet criterion for licence.

ronan.michael@g

watty wrote:

The 1000 tiral users get a free MPEG4 DTT box.

Watty, Would you know the make , model and price, of the MPEG3 trial boxes?. Thanks. Michael r (ronan.michael@gmail.com)

ronan.michael@g

watty wrote:

No MPEG4 in UK except on Satellite. Internet or France for a MPEG4 DTT box.

Thanks Watty -- missed your reply -- my mistake -- ignore my last request as now irrelevant. Michael r. ps Have committed myself to mpeg2 -- hope I won't regret it! Not too expensive, anyway, so what the hell!.

slicedpanman

Hi All,
I recently sent separate e-mails to Setanta and Channel6 asking them about their plans for taking part in the DTT trials. Channel6 have not replied at all but Setanta sent me this:

We do not intend to take part in these DTT trials, but our service is universally available in Ireland by satellite, cable and MMDS.
So anyone who wants the channel can subscribe via one of the platforms.

So it looks like they have no intention of joining the channel lineup any time soon.

Mountjoy Mugger

As Setanta are, to all intents and purpose, a Pay TV channel, it's hardly surprising.

SRB

Thought Newstalk may have appeared today, wonder if it will.

atellyer

"It is expected that the programme content offering from the successful applicants will include UK mainstream channels, in addition to local or niche programming and Irish radio channels. The launch of the new services on the DTT trial is likely to take place from 1 March 2007."

http://www.dcmnr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/Digital+Terrestrial+Television+%28DTT%29+Trial.htm

byte

Cheers for the link.

Unsure if "UK mainstream channels" means the main 4 UK terrestrial channels.

loyatemu

hard to see what else it could mean. sky are involved so probably sky1 and sky news as well.

watty

Or Sky News Ireland

watty

It's the main 4 or 5 at least. May not include ITV2, BBC3 etc,

byrnefm

I doubt we'll get Sky 1 somehow - too lucrative for Sky! We'll probably just get the news and if we're really lucky, maybe Sky Two or Three.

I wonder will we get the City channel on DTT, seeing as it's on NTL Digital? Channel 5 UK would be nice to get or any channels which we don't currently get on NTL analogue (which is what I have).

I can't believe they're now delaying till March to launch phase 2... I know time is needed to get the channels set up but still! Maybe they're waiting for the MPEG-4 boxes?

Richard

byrnefm wrote:

I doubt we'll get Sky 1 somehow - too lucrative for Sky! We'll probably just get the news and if we're really lucky, maybe Sky Two or Three.

Sky Three and Sky Sports News are FTA on UK DTT so you'll probably get those.
I'm imagining you'll be spared all those shopping channels on UK Freeview however as they don't seem to cater for ROI. Which might leave more space for decent stuff.

watty

They may just use MPEG4 adaptors in CI slot link on TNT pay channels in France. (SD, not HD)

byrnefm

A little extra info about the forthcoming 2nd phase of the DTT trial:

http://www.radiowaves.fm/news/index.shtml

Monday, November 6
USP IRELAND: New radio channels for DTT

USP Ireland, a subsidiary of Digital Audio Productions, has been offered a place in the Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) trial which is being carried out by the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to introduce the concept of Digital Terrestrial Television to Ireland. USP will be launching a number of brand new, unique and interactive radio stations to run alongside the television services when the second phase commences next year.

Speaking today, USP Managing Director Dusty Rhodes said: "We are very excited about the digital future and look forward to providing a totally new and exciting way of presenting radio to the public. Not only are the stations themselves brand new formats to Ireland but the interactive services we have planned will be a first for the industry. This is just part of our digital plan where we shall be offering new stations across several digital platforms including DTT. Listening to radio stations via digital television has proved popular in the UK. The most recent RAJAR results show that 20% of all adults listen this way at least once each week."

The other applicants who were today offered places to provide programme content in the trial are: Channel 6 Television Limited, Chellomedia Services Limited, Communicorp Group Limited, Magnet Networks, Eircom & RTÉ and Sky Ireland. It is expected that the programme content offering from the successful applicants will include UK mainstream channels, in addition to local or niche programming as well as the main Irish radio channels.

Channel 6 have also welcomed the decision to be included in the trial.
"We are delighted to be named a Multiplex Programme Content Manager as part of the DTT Pilot," said Mark Kellett, the station's Managing Director. "Channel 6 is a fresh, young player in the Irish TV market, providing innovative new content that is ideal for digital television. For the trials we plan to build on our already extensive interactive programming in ways never before seen in the Irish market. Since launching earlier this year, we have striven to bring new and different programming to Irish TV screens in an innovative way and that approach has been reinforced by the Minister's decision to award us a position in the trial."

DTT will carry digital television and radio signals from Three Rock in south county Dublin and Clermont Carn in Co Louth serving homes across Dublin and the North-East with programming expected to launch in March 2007.

Elmo

Did TV3 apply for a licence?

Would be a bit stupid if they didn't even apply, surely with the new owners they would want to apart of the Digital age. Or perhaps like their Add for Thursday Nights states their Technicians don't know about Digital yet. Rather it makes more sence to squash as many good programmes into a thursday night. :rolleyes:

watty

No one has got a licence. These are contracts to provide additional content. RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4 are on it anyway by default.

Elmo

Sorry let me rephrase the question

Did TV3 apply to be content managers? For Ireland's Main Independent Channel you think they would be interested.

L1011

No, they did not.

watty

But what have they *EXTRA* to manage? They only have TV3 and it is on it anyway...

Elmo

The new owners of TV3 expressed that they wished to increase the numbers of TV channels which TV3 would have, when they bought the channel.

It would be unwise of TV3 not to have extra channels, TV3 will have to hold on to its 15% some how and with the advent of new channels entering the Irish market TV3 can be sure that it won't just be RTE after Coronation Street but Channel Six after X Factor and the other reality crap coming from ITV.

Who ITV sells to is up to them, they may find that they get a better deal by selling separtely to a few companies rather then having a major contract with one.

Also UTV accused ITV of selling its content to TV3 at below market price.

watty

All this talk of extra channels. ITV and BBC now have less real original UK content than when there was only 3 channels.

What would TV3 fill an extra channel with? They can't even fill one without mostly cloning ITV?

Channel 6 is NOT an national irish Channel. It is a Niche old US shows Cable only channel. What they might or might not get from ITV is nearly irrelevent. Judged by schedule they have not much money to bid with.

SPDUB

watty wrote:

Channel 6 is NOT an national irish Channel. It is a Niche old US shows Cable only channel. What they might or might not get from ITV is nearly irrelevent. Judged by schedule they have not much money to bid with.

What they are at the moment is irrelevent,after all RTE was once only on a very small number of transmitters at the start

Judging just by their name they are want to be a national channel ,otherwise why not call themselves TVDublin etc , and a niche channel can be a national channel , C5 springs to mind.

As for them being a cable only channel they don't seem to have any objection to be part of the DTT test

I'm sure there will be rubbish on them but that is true of most stations now

Elmo

All this talk of extra channels. ITV and BBC now have less real original UK content than when there was only 3 channels.

Strange I have said something like this already on this forum :rolleyes:

TV3 I heard where interested in a News channel. Since most home produced programming is news on TV3 why not? It would just be an extension of TV3 News over 12 hours.

Channel 6 is NOT an national irish Channel. It is a Niche old US shows Cable only channel. What they might or might not get from ITV is nearly irrelevent. Judged by schedule they have not much money to bid with.

They have only started out. But judging by what TV3 have done they prob won't do much else.

What I was orginally trying to say was the ITV could easily turn around and sell Coronation Street and Emmerdale to RTE for a good price and sell I'm a Celeb......, Xfactor etc to Channel Six, and prehaps get more money doing it that way.

Anyway wheren't E4 and Film 4 "Niche old US shows/movies Cable only channel" up when the became available on FreeView?

What they might or might not get from ITV is nearly irrelevent.

I am sure TV3 think that too.

SRB

watty wrote:

All this talk of extra channels. ITV and BBC now have less real original UK content than when there was only 3 channels.

Eh, how exactly do you define "real original UK content" ?

Elmo

Eh, how exactly do you define "real original UK content" ?

Drama and Comedy?

IMO BBC ONE, TWO and ITV each have reduce the amount of Drama on their channels over the last number of years, opting for news channels, childrens channels ect. I assume C4 are in the same boat. There seems to be alot of presentation rather then actual programming.

Their productions now stand at Extended showings of Soap Operas and Reality TV. Convayer Belt TV IMO.

Charles Slane

There's an article by Catherine O'Mahony in the Sunday Business Post -

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=MEDIA+AND+MARKETING-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqid=18719-qqqx=1.asp

SRB

Elmo wrote:

Drama and Comedy?

IMO BBC ONE, TWO and ITV each have reduce the amount of Drama on their channels over the last number of years, opting for news channels, childrens channels ect. I assume C4 are in the same boat. There seems to be alot of presentation rather then actual programming.

Their productions now stand at Extended showings of Soap Operas and Reality TV. Convayer Belt TV IMO.

Would agree with that as a fair comment on ITV - one of it's strengths in the past was the regional franchaise holders and their production centers which allowed for developing talent and produced some quality TV. The awful overnight quiz nonsense just about sums the ethos of ITV these days. I couldn't tell you the last programme I watched on ITV - had a quick check back through the TiVo there and not one recording this year is from ITV1. ITV3 and 4 do feature quite a bit, but then that's the older ITV programming library.

BBC1, 2 and CH4 have a fairly healthy output in terms of Drama and Comedy, but I guess that's an individual taste thing. Given the BBC Children's channels are mostly running their own original programming you could argue they've increased their output. Across the board the BBC has had a lot of cutbacks with money being ploughed back into programming - or so they say.
Just looking through the TV Guide for the next week and Mon - Fri on BBC1 and 2 it's mostly all home grown programming during peak hours. True, 4 tends to show a lot of imports, but they tend to be of a fairly high standard.

DMC

Charles Slane wrote:

There's an article by Catherine O'Mahony in the Sunday Business Post -

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=MEDIA+AND+MARKETING-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqid=18719-qqqx=1.asp

Dusty Rhodes kite-flying a Showbands radio channel......
I wonder.... would the licenced ILR's from the BCI be up in arms about more radio stations, nationwide? Have they been widely consulted?
If Mr. Rhodes was a means to provide some/all the ILR's nationwide on a digital platform, I'd say there would be no/less issues in that scenario, but if Dusty is doing content.... then DCMNR may feel the wrath of the ILR's.

SRB

Don't see how they could - it's a different medium, the present stations have FM licenses granted under legislation for useage of that spectrum. There was nothing stopping them applying for a slot on the DTT trial.

10000maniacs

Unless the 4 basic UK channels come on-board (ie BBC1, BBC2, UTV,CH4), Irish DTT is not a viable option for any business wanting to make a few bucks out of it.
There are just too many better digital options out there. FTV Satellite, UK Spillover, etc.
The only way it will succeed is if it is 100% free AND the four basic UK Terrestrials are part of the package. Obviously this means the Government is going to have to subsidize it.
The only reason why it succeeded in Britain is because it is 100% free. Remember the previous version of British DTT, OnDigital. It failed because it had to compete with better digital options.
Treat it like a (very) poor mans Sky TV and it will succeed here as it did in Britain.

byte

Hmm, even without the 4 UK terrestrials, it could be still a winner. There are many people who are only now getting 4 Irish channels. A few extra digital-only channels will be a bonus.

Admittedly, the primary 4 UK channels would be a big bonus. But as for it being a success, there won't be much choice with relation to terrestrial signals. Analogue signals will have to switch off in favour of digital, and I imagine that nearly all TV's in the not too distant future will have DTT tuners only. Not everyone can get cable nor want a dish

Even for those with Sky Digital for example, it woudl be a great asset for the other TV's around the house.

I for one look forward to it, regardless of the channels, if for 16:9 widescreen alone

Charles Slane

byte wrote:

Analogue signals will have to switch off in favour of digital, and I imagine that nearly all TV's in the not too distant future will have DTT tuners only.

What about analogue cable? I know the trend is toward switching to digital, but I'd guess the majority still have analogue cable.

L1011

the return of STBs :P

I can't see analogue tuners being junked this side of 2012 in Europe. How many people (mostly idiots mind) still connect ALL their AV gear by RF? I've seen a Playstation 2 with modulator, Sky box, etc, all connected by RF to a TV with three RGB SCARTs before...

watty

Because the STUPIDER TV set designers make it easy to select RF channels (1, 2, 3, etc) whereas on some sets byzantine menus, no obvious correlation between screen names and socket names and no single button access to each AV connector.

Elmo

Unless the 4 basic UK channels come on-board (ie BBC1, BBC2, UTV,CH4), Irish DTT is not a viable option for any business wanting to make a few bucks out of it.

[repeating myself]

regardless of what TV channels are available on DTT Ireland. Digital services must be roled out by 2010. So weather the 5 main british channels are on it or not will not effect the roll out of the service. Most people have to pay for British services, unless they are receiving illegal transimissions or get it from FTA Sat.

Is RTE NL a commerical option? TV3 would think so And the 4 main british channels are not available on that Platform

My opposition of the British Channels on DTT Ireland will stop as soon as RTE 1, 2, TV3 and TG4 are available across the UK on freeview.

[/repeating myself]

watty

Most of the deflectors have licence and supposed to pay royality to UK. Their licences expire when DTT rolls out.

I think the Government idea is the company taking up the DTT Network licence should buy RTENL, which is why RTE was forced to spin it off as a separate company. After analogue switch off RTENL will have little to do even if not bought off RTE.

The ANALOGUE RTENL does not have capacity for a 5th channel, never mind five more.

It was always recognised:
1) DTT needed all the UK basic channels, the original idea was to charge for those. That can't happen now.

2) Extra channels for RTE, TG4 and TV3, mostly to RTE.

3) The two Gov channels of Dail & Sinaed on web are supposed to be on DTT 5 years ago.

4) the rest of the DTT to be pay channels.

Now with MPEG4, at least the pay channels (as in France) could be MPEG 4 making twice as many and more viable platform

5) The Deflectors where to be closed but legalised and give stay of execution till DTT started. How the new 11.7GHz SCTV system fits that plan I can't tell.


UK TV has ALWAYS been here with a staggering 75% of homes on UTV BEFORE digital Satellite.

UK broadcastes basically have always been allowed "overspill" or Irish Rights as it is a tiny percentage of UK market.

The UK market is 20 times bigger than Ireland so it is impossible for Irish home channels to be available in UK. Even RTE home produced shows would cost RTE a lot more in royalties. A Tara TV style "best of" Overseas Irish channel is possible as a pay TV channel, but RTE do not seem to be interested. Perhaps TG4 may in the future when they are fully indepenent.

Elmo

IMO DTT in Ireland should be rolled out like Freeview in the UK. Surely we have learnt that not even a bigger country was able to roll out a network which would compete on a commercial level with Sky, hence the demise of ITV Digital.

UK TV channels are far more apposed to Irish TV in Northern Ireland, eg TG4 AFAIK is not available on FreeView surely it should be available on that service in the North. But because of rights to certain US shows the UK companies have problems far more problems then RTE, TV3 and TG4 have when the UK channels broadcast top US shows in to the Republic.

Surely TV3, RTE and TG4 should be available to Northern Ireland as much as the UK channels are available here.

The UK market is 20 times bigger than Ireland so it is impossible for Irish home channels to be available in UK.

Northern Ireland is 4 times small then the Republic and yet a channel that doesn't have full penentration on NI gives out about RTE's rights to Home and Away :rolleyes: i.e. five.


IF ONLY RTE ONE, RTE TWO, TV3 AND TG4 ARE ONLY AVAILABLE ON DTT IN IRELAND THEN DTT MUST GO AHEAD REGARDLESS.

SO AGAIN IT HAS TO GO AHEAD NOT MATTER OF THE CONTENT AND WITH ALL THE TALK WE STILL HAVE NOTHING.

DTT LIKE THE CURRENT ANALOGUE SERVICE WILL HAVE TO RUN INCONJUNCTION WITH NTL DIGITAL AND SKY DIGITAL.

watty

70% of NI gets RTE off air.
TG4 is on a TX in Belfast
All four irish stations on Cable and 3 on satellite as subscription.

N.I. has been made into a special case.

The government policy is that private enterprise must pick up the tab for DTT. Find someone running in next election prepared to fight to subsidise DTT by 100% and vote for them.

I agree, the present situation is mad. It was obvious by 2001 that Government policy on DTT would mean no DTT. There is still no new plan, the Trail is a blind to convince EU we are doing something when in reality the Government has mad no new plan at all.

BowWow

We now have 12 TV channels on Mux 2 and Mux 3 that look like they could be switched on shortly for testing. One of these is clearly labled UKTV History - given that its on UK Freeview its probably going to be one of the test channels.

BowWow

Looks like we're to get a channel like BBC Parliament.................

Sunday Business Post

Ryan eager to get Dail TV on air
02 March 2008 By Ian Kehoe

Irish television viewers could soon be watching the goings on of their local county councillors under a plan by Minister for Communications Eamon Ryan for a new political television channel.
Ryan has secured agreement from Ceann Comhairle John O’Donoghue to broadcast a channel from the Oireachtas and plans to roll out the station on a phased basis over the coming four years.
In addition to covering the Dail and the Seanad, Ryan said he ultimately wanted the station to cover county council and local authority meetings throughout the country. ‘‘It will increase the transparency of Irish politics,” he said.
The channel will also cover committee meetings and debates, and will have a highlights programme of the main Oireachtas events, according to Ryan.
It is expected that the new station will be carried on the new digital terrestrial television (DTT) platform. The channel will be classified as a public service channel, and will be carried by RTE under the ‘‘must-carry obligation’’.
The idea of an Oireachtas television channel has been mooted for some time, but Ryan has spent the past few months meeting committees and bodies to smooth its passage. Full details of the channel will be announced in the coming weeks.
Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has already told the Dail that he thinks ‘‘Dail TV’’ is a good idea. He said the channel would be interesting compared with ‘‘a lot of tripe that is on TV’’.

watty

DialTV and Seanead TV are online and have been waiting for DTT since 2001 or so. Hardly news.

See
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/livewebcast/Web-Live.htm

It has been waiting for a DTT network. Typical Ryan spin.

Zaphod

BowWow wrote: »

In addition to covering the Dail and the Seanad, Ryan said he ultimately wanted the station to cover county council and local authority meetings throughout the country. ‘‘It will increase the transparency of Irish politics,” he said.

So not only will we get to see what a waste of good oxygen Eamon is, but in Hi-Def too!

Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has already told the Dail that he thinks ‘‘Dail TV’’ is a good idea. He said the channel would be interesting compared with ‘‘a lot of tripe that is on TV’’.

His appearances at the Mahon Tribunal could become a Pay-Per-View event. Don King could do the promotion.

"Introducing, in the green trunks, Bertie 'The Dodger' Ahern..."

Mossy Monk

Zaphod wrote: »

So not only will we get to see what a waste of good oxygen Eamon is, but in Hi-Def too!

Who said the Dáil proceedings would be shown in High Definition?

Zaphod

Poetic licence!