SKY Picture quality on PLasma TV

pablo21

Evening Folks. I've just turfed out my Sony 28" Widescreen for a Phillips 42" Plasma TV. I bought a set of monster Component Cables for the DVD player and I used SCART for the Sky box. The picture is very good on the DVD player as you can imagine. My issue is with the quality on the sky channels. Its very bitty and pixelated especially if the image is moving. Static images are very clear. I'm not very well informed on Plasma's but wouldnt I be right to expect at least as good a picture as I had been getting on my old 28" Sony?? Its not even close? has anyone else experienced this and if so what did you do to correct it? All help greatly appreciated.

YoYOPowder

pablo21 wrote:

I'm not very well informed on Plasma's but wouldnt I be right to expect at least as good a picture as I had been getting on my old 28" Sony?? Its not even close? has anyone else experienced this and if so what did you do to correct it? All help greatly appreciated.

Sadly, you are completely misinformed. All your lovely 42" Plasma will do is bring the indescrepancies of Sky SD closer to your eye. Sorry for the bad news!

pablo21

Thanks for your reply YOYo but I'm none the wiser for reading it! My googling is telling me that sky broadcasts at a lower quality but can you expand on this in anyway? Why such a huge loss of quality on the plasma? the picture was crystal clear on the CRT? Thx again for your reply!

pH

Even though you're using a SCART for Sky, make sure you set the picture mode to RGB (not PAL) on the Sky box.

The bigger plasma is highlighting the poor quality of the Sky mpeg broadcasts.

How does BBC1 look? Do you get Sky movies - if so how does it look?

mathias

Hello Pablo ,

I went through the same thing when I got my Panasonic , funnily enough no LCD or Plasma is perfect out of the box and they take a bit of setting up ,

First things first , as posted earlier make sure your sky box is outputting RGB and not PAL , this is done in the settings menu on Sky.

Second , go into the picture setup on your TV and turn off noise reduction , for some reason this causes all kinds of noise on SD pictures.

Now adjust contrast and colour saturation until the picture looks good.

Oh yeah , if you have one of those picture settings that goes , normal , Dynamic etc , set it to normal , anyway that should get you started.

Use RTE 1 for the setup , believe it or not it has one of the highest bitrates out there , and is great for setting up your TV

pablo21

Thanks for your posts guys that's a great help! I'll try that this evening when I get home and let you know how I get on! Thx again.

pablo21

Tried all that lads and I'm afraidd theres no noticable difference, in fact it was already set to RGB. I turned the NR off. Have any of you heard anything about Progressive Scan?? One of my workmates mentioned it as a possible solution! more help needed!

Villain

Could be caused by a poor quality scart cable, are all channels on sky the same poor quality? Do you a composite or SVideo cable you could try?

Sparky

Basically, I believe that most of the channels on sky have had their bitrate reduced to highlight the whole "it's time to get HD issue", buts that's another topic for another day.

Plasma pretty much operates the same as CRT in relation to how a picture looks etc, but seeing as you have jumped from a 28" to a 42" screen you have to think of it as zooming in on the picture.

The picture can only look so good up to a certain size screen.

In my experience, sky one Ireland has sh1te quality compared to sky one uk, sky two and three are of crap quality aswell.

Sky box office, sky movies and at times Sky sports can have good results.

Best bet is to get a high quality shielded scart cable to try and improve picture.
I won't say it would resolve all the problems, but it may make it bearable.

Idleater

pablo21 wrote:

Tried all that lads and I'm afraidd theres no noticable difference, in fact it was already set to RGB. I turned the NR off. Have any of you heard anything about Progressive Scan?? One of my workmates mentioned it as a possible solution! more help needed!

First off, how close are you sitting to the screen?

If you are sitting in the same place as you would have been when you were watching the 28" and the TV is in the same place, then you are magnifying the defects that were in the picture anyway. These were always there, you just couldnt see them because they were smaller and blurred on the CRT.

Next, Progressive Scan is for DVD's. If you set the DVD player to Progressive scan and set the TV to Progressive then it wont try to interlace/deinterlace the picture on the screen. This is no help for your SKY issue.

Personally, on my LCD, I find that the Noise Reduction, Dynamic Contrast etc work nicely on NTL Digital. No blurring/graining etc.

What does make a difference though is the screen setting - 16:9 scales everything the same so there is no lag, 4:3 likewise, but if I pick "zoom" or "spectacle" (which stretches the edges more than the centre) then there is a slight decrease in quality as the processing time per frame increases.

L.

digitaldr

I have a 32 inch Hitachi LCD and Sky+. The TV has loads of picture settings - would have taken ages to optimise it if it weren't for the lads on www.avforums.com. Maybe have a look there to see if anyone has come up with anything for your particular plasma?

pablo21

nereid wrote:

First off, how close are you sitting to the screen?

If you are sitting in the same place as you would have been when you were watching the 28" and the TV is in the same place, then you are magnifying the defects that were in the picture anyway. These were always there, you just couldnt see them because they were smaller and blurred on the CRT.

Next, Progressive Scan is for DVD's. If you set the DVD player to Progressive scan and set the TV to Progressive then it wont try to interlace/deinterlace the picture on the screen. This is no help for your SKY issue.

Personally, on my LCD, I find that the Noise Reduction, Dynamic Contrast etc work nicely on NTL Digital. No blurring/graining etc.

What does make a difference though is the screen setting - 16:9 scales everything the same so there is no lag, 4:3 likewise, but if I pick "zoom" or "spectacle" (which stretches the edges more than the centre) then there is a slight decrease in quality as the processing time per frame increases.

L.

How close am I sitting to the screen?? Are you suggesting I move the couch out into the kitchen? ;-) Thanks for the giggle.

I know progressive scan is for DVD's. The pointer I was given was in relation to the upscaling effect of some of the newer HD DVD recorder sets.

I have the res set to 16:9 and not zoom because as you quiet rightly pointed out it only makes the picture worse.


Thanks for the tip Digitaldr, I'll have a wee look at the forum and try my luck!

pH

Just a quick point, the human eye doesn't see the way we think it does, the brain interprets everything. I bought a plasma about 18 months ago, and thought the picture was awful - pixelisation and solarisation - looked terrible.

After a couple of weeks, I no longer noticed it, the picture genuinely looks great to me.

So give it a couple of weeks, have a look for some tweaks to soften the picture slightly and see how you get on.

pablo21

pH wrote:

Just a quick point, the human eye doesn't see the way we think it does, the brain interprets everything. I bought a plasma about 18 months ago, and thought the picture was awful - pixelisation and solarisation - looked terrible.

After a couple of weeks, I no longer noticed it, the picture genuinely looks great to me.

So give it a couple of weeks, have a look for some tweaks to soften the picture slightly and see how you get on.

Your quiet right about getting used to it but regardless there is definite pixelation and trailing in dynamic images.

Villain

Have you even tried a different cable?? I had a projector connected to a SKY+ plus using a cheap SVideo cable I picked up and the picture was ok but not great, I picked up a decent cable and the difference is remarkable, you can have teh best dvd player or digi box and a great TV but if the cable connecting them is cheap and poor quality you are at nothing!!!

pablo21

I tried a few different cables allright, I'll buy a quality one and see if there's any difference...

Valentia

Unfortunately Sparky-s is right, so the discussion is relevant here. The quality of Sky has deteriorated significantly lately. The push is on to get us to switch to HD. The straw that broke the camels back as far as I'm concerned.

Good luck with the new TV but you are not going to get non pixillated pictures from sky

ZENER

I agree with Sparky-s and Valentia, Bigger set with better resolution means you will see all the flaws already there on ALL sky channels. I don't believe for a second that a different cable is going to have any effect other than make the shop owner wealthier and you poorer. This is the "superb digital quality" we're all informed about by Sky and ntl and Chorus, superb my ar*e.

Also as Sky add more HD channels - which have 4 times the bitrate I think of an ordinary channel - then they will need to cut back the bit rates of the SD channels to make room. The quality of some of the football coverage has been atrocious recently.

ZEN

Idleater

pablo21 wrote:

How close am I sitting to the screen?? Are you suggesting I move the couch out into the kitchen? ;-) Thanks for the giggle.

I know progressive scan is for DVD's. The pointer I was given was in relation to the upscaling effect of some of the newer HD DVD recorder sets.

Hi,

Now I dont mean to sound condecending or anything but if you would actually stop and think about what I said then you might actually realise what I said had some relevance.

If you used to sit at x distance from a 28" tv which say had the picture displayed in an area Y, Now change that to sit at the same distance x from a 42" tv which has the same picture but now displayed in an area Z.

To illustrate this further: Compare reading the text on your computer monitor from where you are sitting now, walk across the room and tell me if you can make out more or less detail, and then put your face right up to the screen and tell me if the quality remains the same. Do you see all the picture? Can you see the individual pixels?

Now do you get my point?

You have not changed the signal coming into the house, all you have done is created a bigger screen on which to see the picure on. Because you are sitting in the same place you are effectively sitting closer than the equivalent distance to the 28".

Put another way, it is not my fault you splashed out on a flash big screen that you were not aware of would not fit properly in the dimensions you had planned out for it. <snigger>...;)

L.

YoYOPowder

pablo21 wrote:

Thanks for your reply YOYo but I'm none the wiser for reading it! My googling is telling me that sky broadcasts at a lower quality but can you expand on this in anyway? Why such a huge loss of quality on the plasma? the picture was crystal clear on the CRT? Thx again for your reply!

Out of interest, how does you DVD player look?

andy1249

When I got my 32 inch Panasonic the picture was dreadful , all pixelated and trailing just as the OP described , the unit was originally connected to Sky with a scart lead ,
First thing I did was make a clean connection as it was running through a switcher , this made a huge improvement but was still pixelated.

The cable will make some difference , and I think some of the posters here actually have no idea what you are describing , we are not talking slight pixelation here , I dont think LCDs or Plasmas work at all well with analog connections .

In the end I got Sky HD and connected with HDMI the picture is now perfect , across all the stations and much better than my previous CRT.

I would suggest you try and connect with some other connection other than the scart , like component or S video , and see if that improves things.

Sky are reducing bitrates but there is no way that is what is causing your degree of pixelation , Ive been there and seen it , and would suggest you either get better cables or change the way you connect.

As someone else mentioned , how does your DVD look ? Connect that with the same scart and compare , then connect with component and see what its like.

Valentia

The pixelation I see on movement on Sky Sports for example has nothing whatsoever got to do with the connection. Sky has dumbed down on quality. That's a fact. Don't waste your money. HDMI would only effect HD so your mind is playing tricks with you.

Idleater

andy1249 wrote:

... I dont think LCDs or Plasmas work at all well with analog connections .
...
...
I would suggest you try and connect with some other connection other than the scart , like component or S video...

Hmm,

So, what you are saying is stay away from analogue connections but have a go at Component or SVideo?

For your future reference, component is HD. It is analogue HD. in fact, it is the same technology (albeit with a mathematical formula applied to it) as RGB (that you find in the normal sky/NTL box). Have a look at the XBox360 picture quality. That is actual HD and works perfectly via component and VGA cable - both of which are analogue.

There is nothing wrong with feeding a LCD/Plasma panel analogue signals, and there are plenty of arguments for using component video above digital HDMI/DVI. In truth, the major reason for pushing HDMI/DVI is that they can support HDCP which will be/is being required by HiDef providers like Sky and in future HDDVD/BlueRay etc.

L.

andy1249

Nereid ,

I am well aware of the difference between analog and digital ,

What I meant , as I suspect you know full well , is to try out his other connections and see if they are any better ,

Rather than insinuate that the OP has wasted his money or has something wrong with his eyesight I am trying to help , having experienced and corrected a similar problem !

Whether they are analog or digital in that respect wont matter , and HDMI will make a difference regardless of whether you have HD or not as the signal stays digital until its in your set , and noise or bad cables becomes a non issue . Thats a fact !!

Valentia

And what I am saying is that he will waste his money because the Sky signal is so crap that he will only be treating himself to a clearer reception of this crap.

Villain

In fairness Valentia thats a load of bull, I have seen many plasma's display sky channels with an excellent picture. My projector looks excellent at 5ft by 5ft via an svideo cable to a SKY+ box as does my LCD TV. However before I swapped out the cheap svideo cable for a decent high grade cable the picture wasn't great.

Somehow I reckon if the Sky signal is so crap we would have a lot more of these threads. Its not crap for me and it isn't crap for a lot of people I know, guess we must be lucky and have a "SPECIAL" sky signal. Seriously!!!!

Lump

Some people just can't see the compression. Sky compresses the **** out of their transmission. About 130:1

BBC does 70:1

Valentia

Irish1, with the greatest respect you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. If you are not seeing compression you either have the sharpness turned way down or you have a faulty TV. They are broadcasting crap. It doesn't matter how good your(ones, I mean) gear is. Strictly speaking the better and crisper the output your TV is capable of the easier it should be to see it. I have seen better quality and less compression on streams on my humble PC.

Watch a dissolve next time on Sky Sports and count the blocks. That has absolutely nothing to do with reception.

Lump

http://www.heyrick.co.uk/ricksworld/digibox/quality.html

Idleater

andy1249 wrote:

...
Whether they are analog or digital in that respect wont matter , and HDMI will make a difference regardless of whether you have HD or not as the signal stays digital until its in your set , and noise or bad cables becomes a non issue . Thats a fact !!

Right, if that is such a fact, then tell me how is the OP supposed to get a HDMI/DVI cable to connect to the sky box?

And ignoring the fact that you can just as easily get a bad HDMI cable as a bad component cable. And ignoring the fact that if you have a loss somewhere along a HDMI/dvi cable, there is no calculation that will restore the lost data where as with component it can recover from a limited amount of interference.

At best, the sky box outputs RGB, which as I said is a relation to Component. At best, what the OP can do is buy a RGB Component converter which will apply the mathematical formula to the RGB signal and convert it to component. However, this is pretty much identical to inputting the RGB from the sky box into a RGB compatible SCART socket on the TV with a wired for RGB SCART lead.

Now, seeing as the OP has probably already got the sky set up this way, and is still complaining about the picture quality being poor, I simply explained that what he could be seeing is in fact caused by the distance that he is from the screen. Because being closer to a large screen does mean that you see the pixels more and the mechanics of the screen.

And if he and you want to dismiss that that is up to you but it does not invalidate the point.

A simple google for "LCD Plasma optimal viewing distance" gives several calculators and reasons as to why sitting closer to a larger screen means that you see these "features" but hey, what do you care - you have a 42" plasma and you will watch it - by hook or by crook.

So, for a 42" the recommended minimum is approx 3m, and that is for HD material (for SD material where there is pulldown, zooming and scaling, it would be more because with distance the effect of the pixel borders fades).

L.

andy1249

Nereid ,

Those online calculators are rubbish , they make too many assumptions , like perfect SD broadcasting , which doesnt exist , the results of these calculators are way off , as anyone who has ever sat in front of an LCD or Plasma will tell you.

If you think for one minute that an analog cable is more tolerant of noise than a Digital one then its your knowledge of Digital that is sadly lacking , what the hell do you think this whole digital revolution is about anyways !!

The Sky HD box outputs on HDMI or DVI or Component or Scart or S Video , pretty much anyway you please , Thats what Im talking about ,

What I suggested to the poster was good advice , i.e. try the other connections and see if its better.

And as were playing pedantic games here , if you care to read back through the posts it is not mentioned what type of sky box the OP has !! So the connections available are unknown !!