Weapons Amnesty Web Site

Sparks

Though why moderators and night 'scopes are so named I don't know

At a guess...

Clare gunner

Apparently, this guy made a last minute decision yesterday to dig his Granny's pistol out of the attic and hand it in. It was some sort of pearl handled miniature pistol, and she had it from 1916 and/or the Civil War.
He rang Joe to talk about the lack of identification he had to produce and mentioned that the Garda he gave it to told him it would be going for analysis and destruction.
A couple of antique specialists have been on saying that if the provenance is good, the pistol could be worth a six figure sum.
Joe is wondering why the Gardai don't offer people to option of 'de-commissioning' this sort of thing, and is puzzled that this wasn't made available to people with 'historical artifacts'.

Snigger! I really cant have any sympathies with people like that.Whats the bet he would have been somone who would want all guns banned because they are bad???Now because he thinks it is valueable ,he wants money for it.....You snooze ,you lose.
Whats the betting that if this had been a proper amnesty,no questions asked,and if you wanted to get rid of historical pieces,there was on offer some money.Or lets say a scale of value,Say 1k for an AK and say 40 euros for a starter pistol.We would have had well over triple the amount handed in.Money,works wonders ,but our lot in Govt is too tight fisted to do this.
To use the anti gun bleat,if it costs just a thousand Euros to save a childs life...etc etc.

Sparks

The photos they're using for the press releases are... well, a little on the laughable side really:





And apparently it was more than 350 weapons:
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=200023920&p=zxxxz46z6

A two-month limited gun amnesty, which ended at midnight, netted more than 368 weapons including shotguns, rifles, pistols and knives.

The haul included 12 crossbows, six swords, 11 starting pistols, a stun gun and a musket.

civdef

You have to admit, the Bren rocks somewhat, wonder if it was live?

Sparks

Meh to the bren. Wouldn't mind seeing that musket mentioned on IOL though.

civdef

I can't help thinking that if the Bren was live, they'd be trumpeting it on the numbers as a "high-powered crew served light machine gun", or something on those lines.

It is very "Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels" though.

If it's live, could have a very interesting history.

Are any other pictures of the haul available?

Clare gunner

Anyone notice the way the figures have been misrepesented and or doctored???
Somthing like 49 pistols ,revolvers and 69 air pistols?As air pistols are considerd "firearms" here why are they now a seperate entity? also why is a "177 repeater" AKA a 177 calibre airgun not included in the rifle category?

All in all this looks like somthing out of Monthy Python at this stage.A chap in a white coat standing admist a ton of old junk,holding an ancient Webly.
Lads,have ye not got a big hall where you could lay out all this stuff properly so one can see what is there?

Sparks

From the Indo:

Surrendered pistol may be a historic gem

A GUN handed in to gardai as part of the amnesty could turn out to be a historic gem.

Joe Dowling heard about the amnesty deadline on the news - and handed in a small pearl-handed lady's pistol that had been in his family for nearly 100 years.

He told RTE radio yesterday he was never informed the antique could have been deactivated.

He recalled a family tale of his grandmother being involved in a shooting incident with the Black and Tans during the War of Independence.

He said: "The story we had was that my grandmother was defending the women and children down in the cellar in Moore Street when the Tans were coming through the centre of town.

"She was a native of Dublin, born off Abbey Street, so that would have been her domain around that area."

One expert said it was impossible to put a financial or historical value on the weapon without proving its provenance.

But if there was a story attached to the weapon and it could be proven, people would bid seriously.

Sparks

Also from the Indo:

Courts crack down on gun crime at end of amnesty
JUDGES are to crack down on gun crime after tough new laws came into operation.

Stiffer jail sentences will be imposed in the wake of a two-month Government amnesty, which resulted in almost 370 weapons being handed in.

The haul, which ranged from rifles and handguns to knives and mace spray, was put on display yesterday afternoon at Garda headquarters.

The surrendered weapons are now being checked by Garda forensic experts to establish if any of them had been used in past crime.

Senior garda officers admitted that was unlikely but pointed out that many of the weapons had the potential to be used in serious crime in the future if they had not been handed in.

More than 150 of the haul are regarded as highly dangerous weapons and the amnesty has been declared a success by the Department of Justice.

Tanaiste Michael McDowell explained that the limited amnesty, followed by the introduction of harsh penalties, combined with the continuing efforts of the Gardai in Operation Anvil, were all part of a comprehensive strategy to reduce the incidence of crime in which weapons were involved. He said he was determined to ensure that those found in illegal possession of firearms would pay a very serious price for their crimes.

Mr McDowell sought to allay concerns that the judiciary would not implement the minimum mandatory sentences contained in the new legislation, saying the courts could exercise discretion to impose less than the minimum sentence in the case of a first offence only and where there were exceptional and specific circumstances.

The amnesty haul included 77 shotguns; 46 rifles; 46 pistols, revolvers and handguns; 69 air pistols, rifles and guns; 19 pellet guns; 13 starting pistols; 17 replica firearms; 13 crossbows; 54 various knives; 6 swords; and a single World War 1 grenade, an old Bren machine gun, a gas gun, .177 repeater, musket, theatre gun, stun gun, mace spray and humane killer.

Under the new legislation the courts can impose a maximum sentence of life imprisonment and a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years in jail for possession of firearms with intent to endanger life.

A similar range of penalties can be applied for the use of firearms to resist arrest or aid an escape. A 14-year jail sentence can be imposed for possession of a firearm while hijacking a vehicle and for possession of a gun or ammunition in suspicious circumstances.

Babble

Looking at this story http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=200023920&p=zxxxz46z6

:: altering a firearm (i.e. sawing off the barrels of a shotgun) – maximum sentence of 10 years imprisonment and a mandatory minimum sentence of five years imprisonment.

I hope this is just a condensed for the public version and the real law ignores such things as , lighter trigger jobs, match barrels etc all of which everyone does.

Sparks

Babble wrote:

Looking at this story http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=200023920&p=zxxxz46z6
I hope this is just a condensed for the public version and the real law ignores such things as , lighter trigger jobs, match barrels etc all of which everyone does.

Yes. The law says:

12A.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), a person who shortens the barrel of—
(a) a shot-gun to a length of less than 61 centimetres, or 35
(b) a rifle to a length of less than 50 centimetres, is guilty of an offence.

(2) It is not an offence under subsection (1) for a registered firearms dealer to shorten the barrel 40 of a shot-gun or rifle to a length of less than 61 or 50 centimetres respectively if the sole purpose of doing so is to replace a defective part of the barrel with a barrel of not less than 61 or 50 centimetres, as the case may be.

Clare gunner

I hope some of that are typo errors as some of the above makes no sense whatsoever.
" a shotgun to a length of less than 61 cms or 35"
What exactly does that mean??An overall length of 61 cms or barrel length or an overall length of barrel to 35 cms.????

"[1]for a regd firearms dealer to shorten the barrel 40[????]of a shotgun or rifle" etc etc etc.
What now is this 40 number?? Anyone explain???

Sparks

My guess from context is that they mean a barrel length of 61cms CG, and the 40 is my bad - that stuff's copied from the actual Act and the 40 means line 40 on that page, it got selected unintentionally...

Babble

Thoughts...
I hope its overall length of 50 cm for rifles and not just barrels.
Because a minimum barrel length of 50cm rules out a lot of stock rifles. The Ruger 10/22 has a shorter barrel then that (16/18 inch) and I believe there are a few of those in the country.

So what would happen to those guys?

I consider 50cm's to be quite a long barrel, particularly for action shooting games (ipsc style, but with rifles). A H&K SL8 would be legal but thats a beast of a rifle to lug around in practical shoots. And I'm shooting a 11inch LMT AR upper tomorrow (that being said I'm probably going to build up a 20/24 inch AR15 for service rifle shoots)

My .02 cents

Clare gunner

Babble wrote:

Thoughts...
I hope its overall length of 50 cm for rifles and not just barrels.
Because a minimum barrel length of 50cm rules out a lot of stock rifles. The Ruger 10/22 has a shorter barrel then that (16/18 inch) and I believe there are a few of those in the country.

Not much,they would be either exempted like the 18in Winchester 1897 trench guns. left alone [c] told to get a barrel extn on it
[d] lose it.
Thanks civ was suffering major confusion there.

Rovi

From the Irish Independent, Fri, Nov 03 06 (http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1717012&issue_id=14839)-

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Arial]Guns on table as amnesty reaches its final deadline
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]
Illegal weapons pile up in last-minute surge

A LAST-MINUTE surge has boosted the pile of unlicensed lethal weapons handed in as part of the Government's two-month limited amnesty.

Official figures had indicated that the final figure would be close to 370 firearms and knives.

But last night Department of Justice officials revealed there had been a major increase in the last few days.

The figure jumped to a total of 627 weapons, including 502 firearms, 82 knives, 21 swords, two grenades, and 20 others.

The completed tally is expected to be even higher as some garda stations have yet to make their returns.

Meanwhile, a row erupted last night between Tanaiste Michael McDowell and Fine Gael justice spokesman Jim O'Keeffe over the success of the amnesty.

Mr O'Keeffe, using the original figures, claimed it was bad value for money as it had cost €900 per weapon.

He said a massive €331,608.26 had been spent on advertising and promoting the amnesty. It was a flop as it produced one weapon per 11,413 people.

A similar amnesty in Sweden had yielded over 17,000 guns or one gun per 524 people while a knife amnesty in Britain had produced 90,000 knives, or one per 660 people.

He also pointed out that a weapons amnesty in the Solomon Islands had resulted in the surrender of 3,760 firearms, one weapon per 127 people.

However, last night Mr McDowell pointed out that the amnesties in Sweden and Britain had offered complete anonymity to those surrendering.

The Oireachtas had decided in the Criminal Justice Act that anonymity should not be a feature of the amnesty here and he said the move had been supported in the Dail debate by Mr O'Keeffe, who had also advised the minister he should issue warning through the media of the consequences for those who ignored the amnesty.

Mr McDowell said he had consistently made it clear the purpose of the amnesty was to afford people an opportunity to hand in illegally held weapons before the stringent mandatory minimum sentences came into effect last Wednesday.

"The result is that more than 600 potentially lethal weapons are no longer in circulation.

These could have been stolen from people's houses and used in real crimes against real victims.

Criminals
"Practically all of the weapons surrendered had the potential to be used by criminals in violent crimes if they fell into the wrong hands," he added.

He accused Mr O'Keeffe of having an odd concept of value for money.

"If it means that even one bank worker's life is saved or a violent crime is prevented, I would regard it as money well spent."

The Tanaiste also noted that the Solomon Islands amnesty came in the aftermath of a bitter ethnic war and had targeted weapons held by members of the ethnic militias and by rogue police who some years before had taken part in an armed coup.

Tom Brady[/FONT]

Note the use of the old "if it saves even one life" chestnut.
I await the upcoming Motor Vehicle, Alcohol, and Tobacco Amnesty. :rolleyes:

Clare gunner

Love this they could have been stolen and used in crime bit from Mc Dowell.Tut Tut as a former legal eagle,he is pre supposing that a crime will be comitted and not has been comitted.Whats to say the stuff could have been left there for another hundred years and never be used in a crime?
I also wonder about all this extra stuff coming in....anyone emptying the evidence lockers somwhere??? If I see my nicked Winchester 1300XTR,that has been cut down and features in now stock footage on primetime or RTE news media reports regarding Limerick or gun crime.I will know this is a put up job.:mad:

Rovi

It looks like everything didn't quite make it to the Ballistics Section-

From the Sunday Independent, Sun March 11th 2007 (http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1791685&issue_id=15356)-

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Arial]Amnesty gun falls into criminal hands

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial] JIM CUSACK

THE firearms amnesty introduced by Justice Minister Michael McDowell last year appears to have backfired.

One of two guns handed in to a Co Kildare Garda station during the two-month amnesty has turned up in a search during an investigation into a robbery in Mullingar earlier this year.

The two handguns, believed to have been handed into the Garda station last September, went missing in unexplained circumstances.

An internal Garda investigation has not discovered how one of the weapons ended up in the hands of criminals.

The only explanation so far put forward by gardai is that the weapons may have been accidentally left in the back of the station, in a plain paper evidence bag, and that this was, somehow, thrown out with rubbish.

The explanation has not impressed senior gardai, and inquiries are continuing.

Under the amnesty, introduced with a considerable amount of publicity last August, unlicensed and illegally held weapons could be surrendered without the owners being prosecuted.

The amnesty period was between September 1 and October 31 2006.
Under the terms of the amnesty, the weapons could be handed in to any Garda station. Orders issued to all stations stipulated that the weapons were to be immediately sent to the ballistics section in the Garda Technical Bureau, Garda Headquarters, in the Phoenix Park.

In this case, it is believed the weapons were not sent to the technical bureau but went missing from the station.

The Garda Press Office said yesterday: "We are examining the matter."
The amnesty led to hundreds of mostly old weapons being handed up, many of them shotguns inherited from parents or grandparents and left lying in attics for years. Very few handguns were left in. None was left in by known criminals.

The two handguns left in to the Kildare station are believed to have been the property of a professional in the security industry, who had the weapons in personal property brought into the country some years ago. The owner was not, apparently, aware that possession of handguns was illegal in Ireland, and had been wondering what to do with them.

Under the terms of the amnesty, as stated by the Department of Justice last year: "The weapon will be forensically tested and where it has been used in a crime, the forensic evidence and the weapon will be admissible in the prosecution of that crime. The vast majority will be destroyed. Some unusual or rare examples may get passed to museums."

The amnesty was decided on prior to the introduction of severe mandatory sentences for possessing firearms. Under the new law, possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life carries a minimum mandatory term of 10 years' imprisonment and a maximum of life.

Using a gun to resist arrest or escape from lawful custody also carries a minimum of 10 years and a maximum of life imprisonment.

In an advertisement for the amnest, put out by the gardai and the Department of Justice, it was stated: "If you possess an illegal weapon, do the right thing and hand it into your local Garda station.

"It could mean saving a life - it could be yours, a family member or friend."
[/FONT]

Clare gunner

Que music for the Keystone Cops to accompany this article.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
And we are surprised when we have problems getting liscenses with that sort of procedure and attention to detail???:rolleyes:

Double Barrel

" The Garda Press Office said yesterday: "We are examining the matter."
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Absolutely Hilarious, rolling in the aisles and LOL.
:rolleyes: :cool:

Calling InspectoR Clouseau ? Where is my gun ??? :rolleyes:

boa-constrictor

This whole thing is a farce.

I know someone who wanted to hand in a hand grenade. It was found in a house he bought 30 years ago and is likely from WWII. There's no pin in it, I'd say its empty but I'm not sure. On my advice, instead of bringing it into the station and causing an evacuation, he went in and told them about it and they filled out some paperwork. He also put it out in the field, just in case they would carry out a controlled explosion on it and wreck the shed. They told him he was right not to bring it in because they wouldn't have a clue what to do with it, and that the army would go out to collect it a couple weeks later. That was September. By the sound of it, its about the most exciting thing they would have taken out of circulation and yet they can't be bothered to come out and collect it.

What a load of propaganda.