Oh boy -> Part of N8 to be closed to FORCE people to pay the Fermoy M8 toll....

Chris_533976

Yeah this could get ugly fairly quickly.

I cant find the link, but heres the article.

From The Examiner:

30 August 2006

Sinnott brands road closure ‘highway robbery’

THE proposed closure of a section of the N8 to Rathcormac village, Co Cork, will subject unsuspecting motorists to “highway robbery”, MEP Kathy Sinnott said yesterday.


“On September 2, the barricades will be placed on the N8 Cork to Fermoy Road at Rathcormac and the toll booths for the Fermoy bypass road will be opened and operational. From this moment members of the public will be forced to pay to drive on their own road.

“This stretch of road will be inaccessible to my constituents unless they pay a toll to a private company. The situation could be avoided at no cost if the present road to Rathcormac village is left open instead of being closed off when the toll bridge opens,” she said.

In the case of the Cork/Fermoy bypass, the toll can go ahead without closure of the 2.4km of public road by simply not blockading a small stretch of road to Rathcormac village.

She is insisting that the N8 be left open “and our rights as Irish and European citizens to free access to public roads be respected by both Government and private companies.”

A 2.4km section of the N8 between Cork and Fermoy, was funded by the EU, she argues.

“The Public Private Partnership have already claimed ownership to 2.4 kilometres of EU funded public road, in road signage erected recently,” Ms Sinnott said.

“The confiscation of our public road will be complete on the day that the new toll gates are open and the route to Rathcormac closed off,” she added.

Because it was funded by the EU the public should enjoy full public use of the 2.4km of the N8, Ms Sinnott said.

She has informed the European Commission of the N8 access situation.

“They have verbally confirmed that public roads are public and must remain so. A more formal confirmation of this and a response from the Commission on the particular situation arising in Cork is being sought,” she said.

The Fermoy bypass scheme comprises 17.5km of motorway together with associated interchanges and local road realignments and includes a 450m long viaduct spanning the Blackwater Valley. The PPP scheme will be tolled.

Short version - Part of the old N8 is to be blocked off to force people to go through the toll booths and not skip past them by coming off and on the motorway.

darkman2

Chris_533976 wrote:

Yeah this could get ugly fairly quickly.

I cant find the link, but heres the article.





Short version - Part of the old N8 is to be blocked off to force people to go through the toll booths and not skip past them by coming off and on the motorway.

Interesting. Is this Mway opening soon??? I thought it was October it was opening. I dont agree with blocking access to the old N8.

mike65

Eh which section is involved? Anyone got a map?

http://nra.ie/PublicPrivatePartnership/TollingDocumentation/file,2210,en.pdf

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/mike65/fermoybypass.jpg

Mike.

corktina

It's a two edged sword......yes Rathcormac loses direct access but it also loses the traffic.....surely they should have closed off access north of the village and put the toll booths further north....opens oct 2 i think...too late for changes now no doubt... :-(

Davidth88

Maybe I am being a bit stupid , is that legal ?

I really hate all these toll roads springing up everywhere , if there is a toll road there should be a reasonable alternative , a'la M6 near Birmingham , or the N roads in France . So then you pay your money and you take the choice , otherwise this becomes a tax.

So if I am driving from Dublin to Cork , there is now no workable alternative to paying a toll ? ( I don't know this part of the world that well )

spacetweek

Davidth88 wrote:

Maybe I am being a bit stupid , is that legal ?

I really hate all these toll roads springing up everywhere , if there is a toll road there should be a reasonable alternative , a'la M6 near Birmingham , or the N roads in France . So then you pay your money and you take the choice , otherwise this becomes a tax.

So if I am driving from Dublin to Cork , there is now no workable alternative to paying a toll ? ( I don't know this part of the world that well )

Not sure about being illegal, but it's certainly unacceptable.

I'm gonna need someone to show me exactly on the map where the road closure is taking place. It can't be the road leading from the exit off the M8 to Rathcormac as this would prevent this exit being the Rathcormac Exit. It must be to the left then, like this? *confused* !

bryanw

I find this all very strange. I mean some people might be stingy but I don't think you should force them to pay the toll. There must be some other explaination... Maybe it's just temporary until the motorway is open. From what I've gather (maybe someone can correct me) the toll booths will be open but the road has not yet been finished. Is this it?

Aidan1

Am I the only one to note the distinct lack of certainty in the article?

"the proposed closure of a section of the N8 to Rathcormac village" ... "on September 2, the barricades will be placed on the N8 Cork to Fermoy Road at Rathcormac"

Given the fact that its plainly illegal, and given the source (Whats happening next year again?), I'd be very suspicious of the claim.

mike65

There is no way I'm going to be herded into a toll booth. I'll take a back road.

Mike.

Calina

Learner drivers can't use the motorways legally so I don't think that really they can force traffic onto the motorway with absolutely no alternative.

Last time I drove to Cork I spent 45 minutes motionless in traffic in Fermoy. I will happily pay a toll to avoid it in the future.

Additionally, Kathy Sinnot has never really impressed me as a political rep...there seems to be some element of hysteria about her outbursts. And the lack of clarity on said closure is telling.

Wishbone Ash

If it's a motorway, they would have to leave the existing road in place for motorists with provisional licences and for those vehicles which are not permitted to use a motorway.

I always thought that a tolled road had to have an alternative route also.

(Edit - apologies Calina (re learners), I posted this before reading your post.)

daymobrew

I'm off to Cork for the weekend. I'll report back on activity.
Two weeks ago there were a lot of traffic cones right at the start of the dual carriage way at Watergrasshill. Heading north you can see the toll booths about half a mile away and the roadway to them looked ready.

Capt'n Midnight

Calina wrote:

Learner drivers can't use the motorways legally so I don't think that really they can force traffic onto the motorway with absolutely no alternative. .

Not really a problem,
only affects 1 in 6 license holders.

Yes big warning signs must be in place diverting L drivers and < 50Kph drivers off the motorway.

corktina

good point about the L drivers....when i came by the other day, there didnt seem any sign of the old road going to close. If it does, it is hardly fair on the locals who will have to pay the toll nearly every time they leave home....

Lennoxschips

the answer is to put toll boths at all on and offramps.

of course, this white elephant road doesn't have enough traffic to justify such an investment...

Ham'nd'egger

To legally close a roadway or right of way, I thought that notice had to be given in the mationaly media by the relevant body who run the road, so if it is the N 8, it will be under the remit of the NRA. Has anybody seen an advert to this effect?

curiosity

Can't find a map of whats being done but I hope this explains it.

A few weeks ago they removed the earth banks blocking off the old pre-Watergrasshill bypass road into Watergrasshill from Dublin side. It was obvious that they intended routing the 'free' traffic into Watergrasshill. Southbound traffic will then rejoin the N8 (free bit) using the slip road south of Watergrasshill. Northbound traffic will exit for the free road using the Watergrasshill exit. While its crafty to force free road users to go through another village, thereby making tolled route more attractive, how else were they to allow traffic from both routes to merge?

It should be interesting to see how the new road goes, re the tolls etc.

btw, any notion on opening dates, frequent use discounts (i know they must give at least 10%, but this road could be a turkey if they don't attract the regular traffic).

Victor

curiosity wrote:

btw, any notion on opening dates, frequent use discounts (i know they must give at least 10%, but this road could be a turkey if they don't attract the regular traffic).

2 October.

I haven't a clue what they are suggesting will be closed, however, I suspect what they mean is that the Watergrasshill Bypass will become part of the tolled road.

mike65

I'll be going from Cork to Fermoy tomorrow so I'll take notes!

Mike.

ircoha

The answer to all these tolls is people power.

However we are too well, off too f-ing lazy to do anything about it., too busy jetting off on our 4 contnental holidays a year.
Instead we winge into our G+T's or rabbit on about it on our fones while in our A/ced SUV's

We may not like the french but the truck drivers and fishermen dont take that sort of crap.

We, the plain people of Ireland should blockade the toll roads until they are toll free

corktina

you cant have it both ways....if you want toll free roads, you have to expect them to be paid for out of taxes.....the road wouldnt be there to toll if it didnt have private sector funding .....

and as for closing rights of way, well I guess you will still be able to walk the right of way..i don't think you have a right of way NECESSARILY to take a vehicle with you....

Wishbone Ash

ircoha wrote:

We, the plain people of Ireland should blockade the toll roads until they are toll free

But you have the option of using the original non-tolled road.

Most tolled roads are relatively new - what route did you use before they were built?

Stark

corktina wrote:

you cant have it both ways....if you want toll free roads, you have to expect them to be paid for out of taxes.....the road wouldnt be there to toll if it didnt have private sector funding .....

and as for closing rights of way, well I guess you will still be able to walk the right of way..i don't think you have a right of way NECESSARILY to take a vehicle with you....

Are you a shareholder in one of these private sector companies or something?

The rights of way are rights of way because the public paid for them. For them to be removed so that a private company can make more money off us, amounts to exactly as MEP Sinnott put it: "highway robbery".

Victor

Stark wrote:

The rights of way are rights of way because the public paid for them.

Eh, no, rights of way are there becuase people use them. Most of the land under public roads is owned by the adjacent land owners.

corktina

exactly and whereas you have the right to passage, I'm not sure you have the right to take your car with you.....

If I was a shareholder in one of those private companies, I would expect some means of getting a return on my investment, wouldnt I?

daymobrew

daymobrew wrote:

I'm off to Cork for the weekend. I'll report back on activity.
Two weeks ago there were a lot of traffic cones right at the start of the dual carriage way at Watergrasshill. Heading north you can see the toll booths about half a mile away and the roadway to them looked ready.

No change to traffic movements over the weekend. The blue motorway/toll information signs are up, visible just before Rathcormac when heading north.

murphaph

So, can someone clarify for me. Are they now classifying part of the existing 'free' Watergrasshill Bypass as coming under the tolled Fermoy bypass? If so, I'd be pretty irate at that too. Is that the case or have I picked this up wrong?

Stark

The toll booth I saw when driving to Rathcormack was just after the new section of road (currently closed off). So it looks like the Watergrasshill bypass is still safe.

mike65

Well nothing has changed, the signs for the booths are up and in scary dark green. The exit of the Watergrass hill road onto the N8 is clear except for a barrier. There are no signs in place suggesting an imminant change.

One thing struck me, if you wanted to use the toll section of road but then turn off into Fermoy you will be paying for the privalige of missing one minor bottleneck - Rathgormack. I wonder how many people will end up spending €1.80 (I think) for that perk.

Mike.

piraka

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I always thought that a tolled road had to have an alternative route also.

I thought that this was the case with motorways too. The alternative route is non tolled.

Captain Trips

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Not really a problem,
only affects 1 in 6 license holders.

Yes big warning signs must be in place diverting L drivers and < 50Kph drivers off the motorway.

Divert them where? You don't have access to a National 'N' route if this blockade happens.

So basically, if you want to drive between the two biggest cities, you must drive on a private road and the public road is still there but blockaded.