Would you move back to Ireland?

Exit

I've been living in Canada for just over a year now (with back and forth trips over the previous 4 years), and just lately I cannot see myself moving back to Ireland to live.

Sure, it's good for a 2-3 week holiday to go back, and yes, there are things I miss about Ireland that aren't the same here, but Ireland, or more specifically Dublin, is a ****hole in my opinion. I rarely visit Irish news sites, and have only recently started coming back here, but I keep hearing stories that make me hate the place. Reading the thread about the scumbags stoning the firemen, reading threads complaining about immigrants, and reading threads about general behavioural attitudes of people there have made me realise how better off life is here.

Recently, my Canadian woman expressed interest in one day living in Ireland (she's never been) and I keep thinking how a non-white person would be treated over there compared to here, and it makes me never want to ever go back to living there.

Does anyone else feel that after seeing the world, that Ireland just doesn't compare, and that the little things you miss aren't worth having to live there for them? Or am I the only one who feels this way?

Ruu_Old

I miss Ireland, I do but probably because I was born and raised there, miss my folks and friends. I don't miss the price of everything though. I'll be going home for a week in November, first time in over a year. Don't really like seeing headlines like "Average house prices at €400,000". I hear stories from my Mam everyday, talk to her when shes online, about immigrants (and locals) fighting in town and running through streets when the gardai couldn't give a hoot, but I won't turn this into a immigrant bashing thread. This is a small town in Meath, not Dublin city, so I don't see myself going back and its probably going to get worse before better.
I miss the little things but its not worth all the hassle of it all, I'll get over it. That said Ireland isn't the only place its happening either, I happen to be living in a college town, relatively quiet neighbourhood in central Illinois so I'm lucky. My 2c anyway.

toomevara

I did it, i.e lived abroad for large parts of my twenties, came home 4 years ago and couldnt settle at all, despite the fact that getting back to Ireland had always been my plan. Leaving again in two weeks time. I find Ireland a very frustrating, claustraphobic place in ways that my friends who've more or less lived here all their lives don't. I'm glad to be leaving and frankly, holidays, family events apart I don't think I'll be back.......

motormatic

I think I would. I've really been wanting to anyway. I was in England and Ireland for a couple weeks a few months ago and have been completely and utterly depressed since getting back to Canada. I've been in Canada for 12 years now (with a few in Texas in the middle there) but I've never really felt at home here. I do love Toronto, but I miss the countryside and my family like crazy.

Just decided with a friend yesterday to go to Sligo for two weeks in October and I'm deadly excited! Going to get our tickets tomorrow, because I didn't know this but apparantly no one wants to go to Ireland in October. It's dirt cheap! So we're jumping on it.

Ruu_Old

motormatic wrote:

I think I would. I've really been wanting to anyway. I was in England and Ireland for a couple weeks a few months ago and have been completely and utterly depressed since getting back to Canada. I've been in Canada for 12 years now (with a few in Texas in the middle there) but I've never really felt at home here. I do love Toronto, but I miss the countryside and my family like crazy.

Just decided with a friend yesterday to go to Sligo for two weeks in October and I'm deadly excited! Going to get our tickets tomorrow, because I didn't know this but apparantly no one wants to go to Ireland in October. It's dirt cheap! So we're jumping on it.

Am heading over in November and found tickets to be fairly reasonable, not sure how I am going to react to going back to the US when the trip is up.

K!LL!@N

I moved to Sacramento four months ago and apart from family and friends, there's nothing i miss about Ireland.

My wife (American) and I had talked about wanting to eventually move back and i had thought that maybe we would but i like things here too much now and i'm not sure i can see myself going back permanently.

We'll see what happens i guess but as of now i can't see myself moving back.

Killian

Ruu_Old

K!LL!@N wrote:

I moved to Sacramento four months ago and apart from family and friends, there's nothing i miss about Ireland.

My wife (American) and I had talked about wanting to eventually move back and i had thought that maybe we would but i like things here too much now and i'm not sure i can see myself going back permanently.

We'll see what happens i guess but as of now i can't see myself moving back.

Killian

Liking the petrol prices there? Actually they have gone down somewhat over the last week or two and I have heard or read somewhere could be down to $2 a gallon by Thanksgiving \o/ (won't hold my breath though), cheapest in Illinois is around $2.50 a gallon.

Gandhi

Never moving back. Been in the US for ten years now, and I couldn't imagine living in Ireland any more.

It has changed too much anyway. I hardly recognise the place when I go home now.

K!LL!@N

Ruu wrote:

Liking the petrol prices there? Actually they have gone down somewhat over the last week or two and I have heard or read somewhere could be down to $2 a gallon by Thanksgiving \o/ (won't hold my breath though), cheapest in Illinois is around $2.50 a gallon.

It's been dropping here.
I don't drive at the moment but my wife has found a place where it's $2.80 a gallon.
It's still cheaper than Ireland.

Killian

Gandhi

Ye lads missed the petrol party that was the late nineties. I remember paying 79 cents a gallon in New Jersey (and that was at a full-service station). Not surprisingly, the SUV craze really picked up steam around that time.

BEAT

YES.

Ruu_Old

BEAT wrote:

YES.

I take that as a no then?

BEAT

hehe

metrovelvet

Oh my god the winters are murder. All that darkness. I cry every evening from November until April.

And here in NYC petrol is at $3.50 a gallon. And go figure I see SUVs EVERYWHERE!

BEAT

call me crazy if you like, I prefer the weather in Ireland over the weather in suckazz Ohio.
I cant wait to be able to move back, ove of these days

Ruu_Old

Ah its getting nice and cool in IL right now, perfect. Now if it could have been this temperature all summer would be happy. 63F (around 17-18C) today, magnificent! I too miss the Irish weather and will be probably balling and crying when I have to return to the US in November.

BEAT

each time i come back I get that much closer to not getting on the plane and living in the airport until a means of funds becomes available :P

motormatic

Ruu wrote:

Am heading over in November and found tickets to be fairly reasonable, not sure how I am going to react to going back to the US when the trip is up.

i bet it's going to be hard. i came back to canada in may and it was so hard. my aunt dropped me off at knock to catch a flight to dublin and i just felt like i was leaving everything i loved behind me. then i cried my eyes out in dublin airport and slept the whole way back to toronto. now don't get me wrong, i love canada and toronto is a great city. i've lived here for a long time, but i feel like i'm only here by default. i moved here with my mother in the early '90s, i was too young to have a choice in the matter. as i get older i just want to return. mind you, as sad as i get when i leave, i don't think i could live there right now. there's nothing to do. i'm involved in so many things here and so busy that i think i'd go crazy in mayo. i suppose if i moved to dublin, though.............but that's just another big city.

when i was there in may, things had changed a LOT. it's even more expensive than it used to be and there are so many houses! all these giant ugly new houses popping up in the mayo and sligo countryside are really horrible. it's ok though. i just can't wait to go and relax on my aunts farm, smell peat and go to achill.

Ruu_Old

Yep my Mam mentioned to me that they are building no more houses in the town I used to live in (small town in Meath) am not looking forward to seeing all the houses built up ontop of each other but well things change.

justfortherecor

I've been living in Tokyo for the last seven months and am due to return to Ireland next week when my contract finishes. Not sure how I'll settle back, this place has opened my eyes to the massive world that exists outside my life in Galway/Ireland.

I think I will try and work abroad for my early career and get int'l experience, hopefully return home to Ireland when I get into a more senior position or something.

As with most things there are good and bad sides to it. At the moment I think tokyo is more enjoyable than my life back home but I'll wait to see how I view my irish lifestyle when I get back. Its a massive decision at the end of the day. Just 'heading out for a year or two' can quickly develop into a permanent life abroad.

Jimoslimos

Hmm....thats a tricky one, its where I grew up, spent 23 of my 25 years and where most of my friends/family are.

Reasons for staying abroad
I suppose living in London I haven't really considered myself to be far away (unlike those out in Aus/US/further afield). I'd see my family as often as I would living in Cork, Galway, etc.
The most important factor in moving back would be career. Since I work in R&D it seems highly unlikely that I'd get a similar job in Ireland with same/better earning potential or development/training that I get in the UK.
A visitor to any two towns throughout the UK would struggle to distuinguish between them such is the effect of having nearly every business chain-owned (pubs, restaurants, hairdressers, chemists, etc.). However every time I go back this seems increasingly to be the case in Ireland, why would I want to move back to live in a mini-Britain type town?
Intolerance/Racism - (Its pretty bad in England aswell) You can't keep banging on about the great Irish economy celtic tiger nonsense and expect people to only visit for a couple of weeks, spend lots of money and leave. I moved abroad for economic reasons, immigrants moved to Ireland for economic reasons - I'm as guilty as all the Poles in Dublin.
High cost of living - I'd consider London to be better value for money than Dublin, nuff said!

Reasons for moving back
Family
People ARE friendlier (in a genuine way)
I'm Irish

So all said and done I STILL want to move back sometime (despite the long list of cons)

dSTAR

I have grappled with this question myself like the OP. Like many ex pats I also read on this forum and various other online sources about the ugly side of Ireland with its anti-social louts, drunkenness, drugs, racism and numerous other problems becoming more and more prevalent and can honestly say you can have the place.

I live in a very well established area and am so far removed from that kind of stuff. I have a six year old as well as a two year and would never consider exposing them to the breed of thugs you seem to only get in Ireland. I would be even apprehensive taking them for a short trip to meet their grandparents. This eats me up inside because my eldest daughter talks about meeting her grandparents one day.

In ways it has made me resentful and embarrassed of that bleedin 'Oirish' mentality and its thick ways. I hate to say it but I think that Australians are more friendly and more open to others than Irish and would miss this place dearly if I was ever to leave.

I would fly half way round the world to see my family (that I haven't seen in years) but I reckon I'd only spend a weekend before wanting to visit mainland Europe which is a lot more interesting as well as safe!

Blackjack

Most certainly, for a huge number of reasons, where the positives of doing so at this stage far outweigh the negatives.

Captain Trips

I'll take this on, as someone who previously considered moving but time makes you grow up and appreciate things a bit.

Exit wrote:

I've been living in Canada for just over a year now (with back and forth trips over the previous 4 years), and just lately I cannot see myself moving back to Ireland to live.

Sure, it's good for a 2-3 week holiday to go back, and yes, there are things I miss about Ireland that aren't the same here, but Ireland, or more specifically Dublin, is a ****hole in my opinion.

Have you visited Connemara? Sligo? Donegal? Ring of Kerry? Gone mountain climbing and parachuting? Greater Dublin has a population more than Manhattan, and with it all the extermes of poverty and wealth. Chances are you lived in certain areas and socialised in certain other ones, withouth ever exploring the vast social wealth under the surface. I know people that live in Ballsbridge, and go out in Dawson street and say Dublin is too small. It's no different than living in knightsbridge and drinking in Soho. It is what you make it, and a lot of natives don;t make much of it IMHO.

I rarely visit Irish news sites, and have only recently started coming back here, but I keep hearing stories that make me hate the place. Reading the thread about the scumbags stoning the firemen, reading threads complaining about immigrants, and reading threads about general behavioural attitudes of people there have made me realise how better off life is here.

I understand where you are coming from. To me, I could equally judge Canada by news like:
http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/index.php?article=2481 - the anti-immigrant problems
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060904/firebombing_montreal_060904/20060904?hub=TopStories - the anti-semitic locals, a firebomb attack on a montreal jewish school just today

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060904.ELABOUR04/TPStory/Comment - the relatively higher unemployment of 6.4%, and goes up to over 14% in Labrador and Newfoundland.

http://www.torontosun.com/Comment/2006/09/02/1795204-sun.html - the war mongering Canadian tabloids, just like the US and UK ones

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_fre-economy-economic-freedom, Ireland ranks 5th in the world for economic freedom (accoridng to Nationmaster) (Canada is 18th). OK so in ireland we live a little to the excess.

Recently, my Canadian woman expressed interest in one day living in Ireland (she's never been) and I keep thinking how a non-white person would be treated over there compared to here, and it makes me never want to ever go back to living there.

It will be what you make it to be. If you are the same person now that you were when you left, you will find the experience of living here again no different.

Does anyone else feel that after seeing the world, that Ireland just doesn't compare, and that the little things you miss aren't worth having to live there for them? Or am I the only one who feels this way?

I think there are many people who think like that, but IMHO it's themselves that need a change and not the country they are in. Travel is something that opens your eyes to other cultures and people, but if you maintain a rigid outlook when you get back it won't have done anything.

SharpshooterTom_79811

My parents were faced with this dilemma and eventually they did. The pair of them moved to Oxfordshire in 1983 and stayed there, during which time I was born, till 1987 until they moved to N.W.London.

They hadn't planned to stay in England for very long, 4-5 years at most, it was only because my dad couldn't get a job in his field that forced him to come to England in the first place. This problem persisted and so everytime he got promoted he had to apply elsewhere in England, so much so that after moving to another area in London and living there for 12 months, we moved to Ipswich in 1993 and stayed there for a further 8 years. After thousands of failed job applications in Ireland he finally got one in Omagh and moved here in december 2000.

So all in all they spent nearly 18 years in England, 14 of which I spent my life growing up in, mostly in Ipswich.

I guess I can turn this on it's head and say do I now miss England? Well I've lived here for almost 6 years now, and I do wonder sometimes if I should go back, but I don't have any relatives there, only for a few friends back in Ipswich, it's almost like England was a distant memory and I'd feel completely like a foreigner if I ever went back there, mainly due to the amount of time I've lived here now I suppose (even though I've still got an English accent like!)

eiretamicha

Yeppers.

darkman2

This thread comes across as an Ireland bashing session from those who seem ill-informed as to what the country is like today. First off every single complaint ive seen here from racism to antisocial behaviour to drug use is blown way out of proportion. Dublin has its good and bad areas like every other city on the planet. This country is still as beautiful as it ever was. This country is rich. Now we are trying to deal wth our problems. Ireland has a great quality of life (indeed its the best country in which to live in the world according to the economist!). Ireland has so many of the worlds top computer and pharmaceutical companies here that its referred to as 'the Silicon Valley of Europe'. We have made great progress in the last decade. I know ppl are far happier in this country today then they were 15 years ago. You cant argue with it. Its true. Ireland IMHO is far safer then most countries in the world. No-one living here has any illusions about the problems we have but the problems we have are no worse then any other country.

BEAT

darkman2 wrote:

This thread comes across as an Ireland bashing session from those who seem ill-informed as to what the country is like today. First off every single complaint ive seen here from racism to antisocial behaviour to drug use is blown way out of proportion. Dublin has its good and bad areas like every other city on the planet. This country is still as beautiful as it ever was. This country is rich. Now we are trying to deal wth our problems. Ireland has a great quality of life (indeed its the best country in which to live in the world according to the economist!). Ireland has so many of the worlds top computer and pharmaceutical companies here that its referred to as 'the Silicon Valley of Europe'. We have made great progress in the last decade. I know ppl are far happier in this country today then they were 15 years ago. You cant argue with it. Its true. Ireland IMHO is far safer then most countries in the world. No-one living here has any illusions about the problems we have but the problems we have are no worse then any other country.

This thread is not bashing Ireland in any form, (if it were I would have closed it) people here are sharing thier experiences and opinions. Many people moved away and like it and many moved away and miss it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you are reading too much into it.

motormatic

Ruu wrote:

Am heading over in November and found tickets to be fairly reasonable, not sure how I am going to react to going back to the US when the trip is up.

Bought my tickets today. $761 Canadian each inclusive of all taxes, and direct flights to Dublin, so that's not too bad. Could have got it slightly cheaper but would have had to sit in New Jersey all day and that's not anyone's idea of fun. I leave on the 5th of October, and I absolutely cannot wait!

The Sweeper

Okay, first, ALL OF YOU, this is not to turn into one of those threads where either Beat or I have to delete things and threaten to ban people etc.

If you think posters are bashing Ireland, then accept that they have the right to their opinion and DEFEND Ireland in response.


Did I see something in the Evening Herald last Wednesday about Ireland having the highest per capita debt in Europe? They cited some ridiculously huge figure in the billions. I mean, if that's the case, then no wonder everyone appears to be living the great life of Reilly - so would we all if it was planted on plastic.

Jimoslimos

Okay in response to the comments by darkman2 I'll accept that maybe I over-accentuated the negatives slightly. Still this is what I would do if I was considering moving back. If I wanted to do any kind of country-bashing I could write three times as much regarding the faults of my current location. However some of darkmans comments seem to be made through rose-tinted specs.

This country is rich.

Based on what evidence, wrapped up in the great Irish property market/bubble perhaps?

Ireland has so many of the worlds top computer and pharmaceutical companies here that its referred to as 'the Silicon Valley of Europe'

This statement annoys me; 1) Do you work in either of these two industries and 2) I hate the fact that all we aspire to be is an 'Irish' version of an American/foreign phenomenon.
I'd much rather we had a smaller native science and technology industry, less jobs perhaps but substantially more profits would stay in the country. Why do we have to get excited at the prospect of foreign industries setting up here? It saddens me that over on the Midlands board they're salivating at the prospect of a large British department chain-store opening in Athlone/Mullingar

I know ppl are far happier in this country today then they were 15 years ago. You cant argue with it.

No, I can't argue with it but it doesn't mean we should stop there and accept the faults at present. I'm sure 15 years ago people were saying "Sure aren't we a lot better off now than we were 15 years ago"

I'll stress again that I'm NOT bashing the country in any way, I enjoy visiting Ireland and would love to move back someday. When making an important decision its only natural that one would look at the negatives more closely than the positives.

darkman2

I take those points but you see I think some that emigrated years ago, particularly to the US, have an issue with Ireland entering the modern world, I really do. I mean wtf were we suppose to do? Stay a state that no-one gave a sh*t about. Stay the 'poorest of the rich'?. The Ireland of old is gone. Its as simple as that and the vast majority living here, who are actually able to judge, know that. Some of the claims here are rediculous.

darkman2

Jimoslimos wrote:

However some of darkmans comments seem to be made through rose-tinted specs.



Based on what evidence, wrapped up in the great Irish property market/bubble perhaps?

This comes across as begrudgery.

www.nationmaster.com

Every statistic is there. BTW I actually live here so I think I know what the quality of life is like. Ive no worries about the economy.

darkman2

Jimoslimos wrote:

No, I can't argue with it but it doesn't mean we should stop there and accept the faults at present. I'm sure 15 years ago people were saying "Sure aren't we a lot better off now than we were 15 years ago"

No they were not.

The thing about Ireland is, and its the best thing that ever happened to this country, is that if you work there are plenty of opportunities.

Blub2k4

dSTAR wrote:

I have grappled with this question myself like the OP. Like many ex pats I also read on this forum and various other online sources about the ugly side of Ireland with its anti-social louts, drunkenness, drugs, racism and numerous other problems becoming more and more prevalent and can honestly say you can have the place.

I live in a very well established area and am so far removed from that kind of stuff. I have a six year old as well as a two year and would never consider exposing them to the breed of thugs you seem to only get in Ireland. I would be even apprehensive taking them for a short trip to meet their grandparents. This eats me up inside because my eldest daughter talks about meeting her grandparents one day.

In ways it has made me resentful and embarrassed of that bleedin 'Oirish' mentality and its thick ways. I hate to say it but I think that Australians are more friendly and more open to others than Irish and would miss this place dearly if I was ever to leave.

I would fly half way round the world to see my family (that I haven't seen in years) but I reckon I'd only spend a weekend before wanting to visit mainland Europe which is a lot more interesting as well as safe!

Ha I'm surprised you open the door to go to work in the morning.
I'd suggest you take the reports of rampant thuggery with a large pinch of salt, possibly even change your news sources, cos it sounds like you've been reading sensationalist tabloids.
If thuggery worries you how do you feel about foreigners being hunted and beaten down the streets like happened in Oz there a while back, but then you'd consider the aussies more welcoming of foreigners, maybe it's cos we dont have them in "friendly" concentration camps????

Please, less of the sensationalist BS.

Jimoslimos

This comes across as begrudgery.

Not meaning to get too off-topic but no its not, just because I haven't benefitted directly from the property boom doesn't mean I begrudge those who have. I have (as I'm sure most people do) friends & family who have made great amounts of money off the property explosion in Ireland and I will have family/friends who would suffer if there is any crash in the market.
Anyway a crash in property prices wouldn't hasten my return to Ireland (in search of a quick bargain) since its highly likely the whole economy would suffer.

www.nationmaster.com

Every statistic is there. BTW I actually live here so I think I know what the quality of life is like. Ive no worries about the economy.

Come on now, the devil can quote the Bible to suit himself. If your going to quote statistics at least do it from a peer-reviewed, reputable journal/publication.

darkman2

Jimoslimos wrote:

Not meaning to get too off-topic but no its not, just because I haven't benefitted directly from the property boom doesn't mean I begrudge those who have. I have (as I'm sure most people do) friends & family who have made great amounts of money off the property explosion in Ireland and I will have family/friends who would suffer if there is any crash in the market.
Anyway a crash in property prices wouldn't hasten my return to Ireland (in search of a quick bargain) since its highly likely the whole economy would suffer.



Come on now, the devil can quote the Bible to suit himself. If your going to quote statistics at least do it from a peer-reviewed, reputable journal/publication.

It is very questionable that the economy is based soley on the property boom, it certainly isnt in my view. 90,000 new jobs were created last year alone. We have a very very competitive tax system in this country. Far more competitive then the UK. Do you know why so many high tech industries have selected Ireland for their European headquarters instead of the UK? - Corporate Tax. Competitiveness may have slipped in this country in recent years but Im not worried at all. Consumer sentiment is very high here and that tells you that ppl are generally confident about the future.

BTW those statistics are all taken from reputable sources such as the UK's 'Economist' magazine which is probrably the most respected economic journal in the world.

Jimoslimos

darkman2 wrote:

It is very questionable that the economy is based soley on the property boom, it certainly isnt in my view. 90,000 new jobs were created last year alone. We have a very very competitive tax system in this country. Far more competitive then the UK. Do you know why so many high tech industries have selected Ireland for their European headquarters instead of the UK? - Corporate Tax. Competitiveness may have slipped in this country in recent years but Im not worried at all. Consumer sentiment is very high here and that tells you that ppl are generally confident about the future.

BTW those statistics are all taken from reputable sources such as the UK's 'Economist' magazine which is probrably the most respected economic journal in the world.

Competive tax rates do not equal a healthy economy. I'd much rather foreign high-tech industries were more interested in the calibre of our graduates than in lucrative tax-breaks. To give an example, I work for a large American multinational in the UK who also as it happens have a very large presence in Ireland. Now the difference, the operations in the UK may be a lot smaller there is however an R&D presence which is sadly lacking in Ireland.

Yes the Economist is a reputable source of information but the original link www.nationmaster.com has some slightly dubious stats, for one listing gay people as undesirable neighbours.

Trying to keep on topic have you, darkman2, experienced life outside of Ireland for an extended period and if so what were the factors which influenced you returning?

Gandhi

I made my decision not to move back based on completely ethereal reasons. I just like living in the US. I could sit down and make out a "pro and con" list, or do a myriad of economic calculations on property prices, taxes etc. That would be pointless as I am not going to live somewhere I don't want to live because of numbers on a piece of paper.

I doubt any of the posters quoting statistics honestly believe that the other lad is going to look at them, punch them into his calculator, and hop on a plane tomorrow morning based on the results. Thankfully, the days are over when people had to emigrate from Ireland to find a job, now it is a case of emigrating because we feel like living somewhere else.

From what I can see, Ireland right now is a great place to live, it is just not a great place for me to live.

the Guru

I moved to Florida to a college town, over a year ago and I could give or take it, I would rather live in a bigger city, as for moving back to Ireland I'm undecided all my friends and family are there and I miss all my mates especially when they are doing activities that I used to be involved in, If I do go back it will not in the near future.

darkman2

Jimoslimos wrote:

Competive tax rates do not equal a healthy economy. I'd much rather foreign high-tech industries were more interested in the calibre of our graduates than in lucrative tax-breaks. To give an example, I work for a large American multinational in the UK who also as it happens have a very large presence in Ireland. Now the difference, the operations in the UK may be a lot smaller there is however an R&D presence which is sadly lacking in Ireland.

Yes the Economist is a reputable source of information but the original link www.nationmaster.com has some slightly dubious stats, for one listing gay people as undesirable neighbours.

Trying to keep on topic have you, darkman2, experienced life outside of Ireland for an extended period and if so what were the factors which influenced you returning?

Ive been to the US plenty of times, most recently 6 months ago in Pheonix, Arizona. The US is a great place but its a different place so comparisons are very unfair. The UK is alot like Ireland. I agree we need to get more R&D companies setting up here. We are doing that though, thats my point. Look we have only had the capacity to change things in the last 15 years or so. Good progress has been made but its going to take time. I live in Dublin and its literally changes by the month. I can fully understand ppl not even knowing what has happened to it. It is a far more confident place and IMHO a safer place. Its a much bigger place now then it was even ten years ago. Its different then it was but its better.

Captain Trips

Jimoslimos wrote:

Based on what evidence, wrapped up in the great Irish property market/bubble perhaps?

1. Debt owed to non-residents (external debt): we are 26th in the world, which isn't nearly as good as the Norwegians who owe nothing externally, but we are well ahead of the Australians, Islandicians (sorry!), Italians, Porteugese, Finnish, Bahraini's and Kuwaitis who owe far more, and are all westernish countries. Things used not be like that. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_deb_ext_percap-economy-debt-external-per-capita

2. GDP: in 1970, we were 24th in the list, almost at the bottom. Our GDP was $4.20 compared to USA's $1025.50. No wonder yanks always seemed so rich coming home all flush with cash - their country was just stonkingly ahead in performance.

Now, our GDP per capita is 4th in the world, behind Switzerland just, and Luxemburg and Norway out in front. We have come a long way, it is undeniable, and it has happened in as brief a time as possible. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp_percap-economy-gdp-nominal-per-capita#rest. Our progress has shown up the US, Japan, UK, Germany.

3. Current account: our government appears to straddle the Anglo-Saxon deficit spend attitude of the UK, US and Australia, and also mixes in some Social-Democratic values, which is why we beat some of the scandinavians, but come out okay against the anglo-saxon countries as well. Our debt is $2.8 billion according to the link. However, you can see that certain countries like to live on credit (*cough* who's going to get them to pay up *cough*) like US, UK, and at the other countries that don't have big credit and need cash in hand (*cough* who lost WW2 *cough*). http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_cur_acc_bal-economy-current-account-balance

We are doing just fine, and are a hell of a lot better off in general compared to ten years ago. We have more disposable income, more credit to take financial risks, etc., .

hardox

Ireland would be a great place to live if not:
irish weather
scumbags,drugers
racizm
horrible trafic,no roads,driving straight through around (dublin).
there is only 1 atraction,bars and pubs.By the way i don't drink at all.
Anyway Ireland is a temporary stop.We just gonna earn a bit money and come back home.Our economy is growing up very fast,so,maybe in the near future,u'll come to work to Lithuania:)

BEAT

hardox wrote:

Ireland would be a great place to live if not:
irish weather
scumbags,drugers
racizm
horrible trafic,no roads,driving straight through around (dublin).
there is only 1 atraction,bars and pubs.By the way i don't drink at all.
Anyway Ireland is a temporary stop.We just gonna earn a bit money and come back home.Our economy is growing up very fast,so,maybe in the near future,u'll come to work to Lithuania:)

I have news for you, weather is unpredictable all over the planet. (I happen to love the weather in Ireland over all else)
scumbags and racism happens all over the planet.
pubs are not the only draw to the country and to say so is demeaning.
Last I heard the economy was booming in Ireland as well...
You are welcome to your opnions though as I said before.

Rudolph Claus

hardox wrote:

Ireland would be a great place to live if not:
irish weather
scumbags,drugers
racizm
horrible trafic,no roads,driving straight through around (dublin).
there is only 1 atraction,bars and pubs.By the way i don't drink at all.
Anyway Ireland is a temporary stop.We just gonna earn a bit money and come back home.Our economy is growing up very fast,so,maybe in the near future,u'll come to work to Lithuania:)

Do you mind me asking and telling what your working at here? Have you encountered much racism/scumbags/druggers?

7aken

i dont think i would just yet. id put it down to the urge to expand my horizons however and not as much the reasons people have mentioned above. i dont think ireland is such a bad place. scangers and the likes seem to be part of logical social progression and the problem i have with it is that nothing much is being done to address it. Ireland seems to be a less 'personal' place to me. in terms of comparison of with where im living now (seychelles) ireland has a lot more going for it in terms of economy and employment but thats about it.

there is a restricted currency where i am which means i cant exchange it anywhere else in the world and its not very valuable anyway. there are also restrictions on the amount you can exchange for forex. when i go home to ireland at christmas the banks here are only allowed to sell me $400. needless to say there is a thriving black market for forex and this obviously leads to some social problems but nothing on par with ireland. the population of the entire country is only 80.000 so no big city life here, i guess to some that could give a feeling of cluasthrophobia (mad spelling) but i like it. the population 'fits' the country. you've only got to look at any sites dedicated to seychelles to see why it is so infinetly more appealing to certain senses than ireland. all the same, i will return to ireland sometime, i just see it happening....

hardox

what about atractions on the beach.Can't see even cabanas there.What,people don't like to enjoy the sea on summer time?

metrovelvet

The one thing that really drives me crazy over all others is how you never know where you stand with people.

And also people tell you what they think you want to hear rather than being upfront.

Its crazymaking.

darkman2

horrible trafic,no roads,driving straight through around (dublin).

Thats a silly thing to say. We have the biggest infrastructural development program going on in Europe. The roads are getting far better here now then they were even 5 years ago.

dSTAR

Blub2k4 wrote:

I'd suggest you take the reports of rampant thuggery with a large pinch of salt, possibly even change your news sources, cos it sounds like you've been reading sensationalist tabloids...

Actually most of it comes from reading fellow boardies posts regarding certain incidents that have occurred in Dublin such as the Dublin riots and the evergrowing problem of knackers accosting innocent tourists. I had two Australian friends who visited Dublin comment how dirty the place was, how many drunks there were staggering around the streets and how unsafe they felt being in the city centre at night.

Now I know that there are good and bad places EVERYWHERE. I have lived in many dodgy areas including Dolphin's Barn in Dublin, Brixton in London and The Mission District in San Francisco. They all had high crime rates. But the point I am making is that the knacker epidemic does NOT seem to be confined to a few bad areas in Dublin. You can be walking down the street in Dublin on a fine day and see some total scum bag kicking the crap out of someone for no reason. I have never seen that ANYWHERE else.

If thuggery worries you how do you feel about foreigners being hunted and beaten down the streets like happened in Oz there a while back, but then you'd consider the aussies more welcoming of foreigners, maybe it's cos we dont have them in "friendly" concentration camps????

Whose being sensationalist now?? :rolleyes:

Blub2k4

dSTAR wrote:

Actually most of it comes from reading fellow boardies posts regarding certain incidents that have occurred in Dublin such as the Dublin riots and the evergrowing problem of knackers accosting innocent tourists. I had two Australian friends who visited Dublin comment how dirty the place was, how many drunks there were staggering around the streets and how unsafe they felt being in the city centre at night.

Now I know that there are good and bad places EVERYWHERE. I have lived in many dodgy areas including Dolphin's Barn in Dublin, Brixton in London and The Mission District in San Francisco. They all had high crime rates. But the point I am making is that the knacker epidemic does NOT seem to be confined to a few bad areas in Dublin. You can be walking down the street in Dublin on a fine day and see some total scum bag kicking the crap out of someone for no reason. I have never seen that ANYWHERE else.

Whose being sensationalist now?? :rolleyes:

So the incident with the riots didn't happen about two months ago in Oz?
You dont have detention camps for the incoming asylum seekers?
That clears that up then.

I lived in Germany where there was an incident in the redlight district one week, it culminated in 5 guys being shot with automatic weapons on the street when a deal went wrong, a few weeks later two guys walked into an ice cream cafe and shot two kurdish dealers, the police were patrolling the streets with HK's for a few weeks after that. I knew a first hand witness to the first incident......yet dublin streets are dangerous...yeah right.

I'd suggest that you get less news from the bigots in after hours and more from the politics forum.