Would you move back to Ireland?

darkman2

I take those points but you see I think some that emigrated years ago, particularly to the US, have an issue with Ireland entering the modern world, I really do. I mean wtf were we suppose to do? Stay a state that no-one gave a sh*t about. Stay the 'poorest of the rich'?. The Ireland of old is gone. Its as simple as that and the vast majority living here, who are actually able to judge, know that. Some of the claims here are rediculous.

darkman2

Jimoslimos wrote:

However some of darkmans comments seem to be made through rose-tinted specs.



Based on what evidence, wrapped up in the great Irish property market/bubble perhaps?

This comes across as begrudgery.

www.nationmaster.com

Every statistic is there. BTW I actually live here so I think I know what the quality of life is like. Ive no worries about the economy.

darkman2

Jimoslimos wrote:

No, I can't argue with it but it doesn't mean we should stop there and accept the faults at present. I'm sure 15 years ago people were saying "Sure aren't we a lot better off now than we were 15 years ago"

No they were not.

The thing about Ireland is, and its the best thing that ever happened to this country, is that if you work there are plenty of opportunities.

Blub2k4

dSTAR wrote:

I have grappled with this question myself like the OP. Like many ex pats I also read on this forum and various other online sources about the ugly side of Ireland with its anti-social louts, drunkenness, drugs, racism and numerous other problems becoming more and more prevalent and can honestly say you can have the place.

I live in a very well established area and am so far removed from that kind of stuff. I have a six year old as well as a two year and would never consider exposing them to the breed of thugs you seem to only get in Ireland. I would be even apprehensive taking them for a short trip to meet their grandparents. This eats me up inside because my eldest daughter talks about meeting her grandparents one day.

In ways it has made me resentful and embarrassed of that bleedin 'Oirish' mentality and its thick ways. I hate to say it but I think that Australians are more friendly and more open to others than Irish and would miss this place dearly if I was ever to leave.

I would fly half way round the world to see my family (that I haven't seen in years) but I reckon I'd only spend a weekend before wanting to visit mainland Europe which is a lot more interesting as well as safe!

Ha I'm surprised you open the door to go to work in the morning.
I'd suggest you take the reports of rampant thuggery with a large pinch of salt, possibly even change your news sources, cos it sounds like you've been reading sensationalist tabloids.
If thuggery worries you how do you feel about foreigners being hunted and beaten down the streets like happened in Oz there a while back, but then you'd consider the aussies more welcoming of foreigners, maybe it's cos we dont have them in "friendly" concentration camps????

Please, less of the sensationalist BS.

Jimoslimos

This comes across as begrudgery.

Not meaning to get too off-topic but no its not, just because I haven't benefitted directly from the property boom doesn't mean I begrudge those who have. I have (as I'm sure most people do) friends & family who have made great amounts of money off the property explosion in Ireland and I will have family/friends who would suffer if there is any crash in the market.
Anyway a crash in property prices wouldn't hasten my return to Ireland (in search of a quick bargain) since its highly likely the whole economy would suffer.

www.nationmaster.com

Every statistic is there. BTW I actually live here so I think I know what the quality of life is like. Ive no worries about the economy.

Come on now, the devil can quote the Bible to suit himself. If your going to quote statistics at least do it from a peer-reviewed, reputable journal/publication.

darkman2

Jimoslimos wrote:

Not meaning to get too off-topic but no its not, just because I haven't benefitted directly from the property boom doesn't mean I begrudge those who have. I have (as I'm sure most people do) friends & family who have made great amounts of money off the property explosion in Ireland and I will have family/friends who would suffer if there is any crash in the market.
Anyway a crash in property prices wouldn't hasten my return to Ireland (in search of a quick bargain) since its highly likely the whole economy would suffer.



Come on now, the devil can quote the Bible to suit himself. If your going to quote statistics at least do it from a peer-reviewed, reputable journal/publication.

It is very questionable that the economy is based soley on the property boom, it certainly isnt in my view. 90,000 new jobs were created last year alone. We have a very very competitive tax system in this country. Far more competitive then the UK. Do you know why so many high tech industries have selected Ireland for their European headquarters instead of the UK? - Corporate Tax. Competitiveness may have slipped in this country in recent years but Im not worried at all. Consumer sentiment is very high here and that tells you that ppl are generally confident about the future.

BTW those statistics are all taken from reputable sources such as the UK's 'Economist' magazine which is probrably the most respected economic journal in the world.

Jimoslimos

darkman2 wrote:

It is very questionable that the economy is based soley on the property boom, it certainly isnt in my view. 90,000 new jobs were created last year alone. We have a very very competitive tax system in this country. Far more competitive then the UK. Do you know why so many high tech industries have selected Ireland for their European headquarters instead of the UK? - Corporate Tax. Competitiveness may have slipped in this country in recent years but Im not worried at all. Consumer sentiment is very high here and that tells you that ppl are generally confident about the future.

BTW those statistics are all taken from reputable sources such as the UK's 'Economist' magazine which is probrably the most respected economic journal in the world.

Competive tax rates do not equal a healthy economy. I'd much rather foreign high-tech industries were more interested in the calibre of our graduates than in lucrative tax-breaks. To give an example, I work for a large American multinational in the UK who also as it happens have a very large presence in Ireland. Now the difference, the operations in the UK may be a lot smaller there is however an R&D presence which is sadly lacking in Ireland.

Yes the Economist is a reputable source of information but the original link www.nationmaster.com has some slightly dubious stats, for one listing gay people as undesirable neighbours.

Trying to keep on topic have you, darkman2, experienced life outside of Ireland for an extended period and if so what were the factors which influenced you returning?

Gandhi

I made my decision not to move back based on completely ethereal reasons. I just like living in the US. I could sit down and make out a "pro and con" list, or do a myriad of economic calculations on property prices, taxes etc. That would be pointless as I am not going to live somewhere I don't want to live because of numbers on a piece of paper.

I doubt any of the posters quoting statistics honestly believe that the other lad is going to look at them, punch them into his calculator, and hop on a plane tomorrow morning based on the results. Thankfully, the days are over when people had to emigrate from Ireland to find a job, now it is a case of emigrating because we feel like living somewhere else.

From what I can see, Ireland right now is a great place to live, it is just not a great place for me to live.

the Guru

I moved to Florida to a college town, over a year ago and I could give or take it, I would rather live in a bigger city, as for moving back to Ireland I'm undecided all my friends and family are there and I miss all my mates especially when they are doing activities that I used to be involved in, If I do go back it will not in the near future.

darkman2

Jimoslimos wrote:

Competive tax rates do not equal a healthy economy. I'd much rather foreign high-tech industries were more interested in the calibre of our graduates than in lucrative tax-breaks. To give an example, I work for a large American multinational in the UK who also as it happens have a very large presence in Ireland. Now the difference, the operations in the UK may be a lot smaller there is however an R&D presence which is sadly lacking in Ireland.

Yes the Economist is a reputable source of information but the original link www.nationmaster.com has some slightly dubious stats, for one listing gay people as undesirable neighbours.

Trying to keep on topic have you, darkman2, experienced life outside of Ireland for an extended period and if so what were the factors which influenced you returning?

Ive been to the US plenty of times, most recently 6 months ago in Pheonix, Arizona. The US is a great place but its a different place so comparisons are very unfair. The UK is alot like Ireland. I agree we need to get more R&D companies setting up here. We are doing that though, thats my point. Look we have only had the capacity to change things in the last 15 years or so. Good progress has been made but its going to take time. I live in Dublin and its literally changes by the month. I can fully understand ppl not even knowing what has happened to it. It is a far more confident place and IMHO a safer place. Its a much bigger place now then it was even ten years ago. Its different then it was but its better.

Captain Trips

Jimoslimos wrote:

Based on what evidence, wrapped up in the great Irish property market/bubble perhaps?

1. Debt owed to non-residents (external debt): we are 26th in the world, which isn't nearly as good as the Norwegians who owe nothing externally, but we are well ahead of the Australians, Islandicians (sorry!), Italians, Porteugese, Finnish, Bahraini's and Kuwaitis who owe far more, and are all westernish countries. Things used not be like that. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_deb_ext_percap-economy-debt-external-per-capita

2. GDP: in 1970, we were 24th in the list, almost at the bottom. Our GDP was $4.20 compared to USA's $1025.50. No wonder yanks always seemed so rich coming home all flush with cash - their country was just stonkingly ahead in performance.

Now, our GDP per capita is 4th in the world, behind Switzerland just, and Luxemburg and Norway out in front. We have come a long way, it is undeniable, and it has happened in as brief a time as possible. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp_percap-economy-gdp-nominal-per-capita#rest. Our progress has shown up the US, Japan, UK, Germany.

3. Current account: our government appears to straddle the Anglo-Saxon deficit spend attitude of the UK, US and Australia, and also mixes in some Social-Democratic values, which is why we beat some of the scandinavians, but come out okay against the anglo-saxon countries as well. Our debt is $2.8 billion according to the link. However, you can see that certain countries like to live on credit (*cough* who's going to get them to pay up *cough*) like US, UK, and at the other countries that don't have big credit and need cash in hand (*cough* who lost WW2 *cough*). http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_cur_acc_bal-economy-current-account-balance

We are doing just fine, and are a hell of a lot better off in general compared to ten years ago. We have more disposable income, more credit to take financial risks, etc., .

hardox

Ireland would be a great place to live if not:
irish weather
scumbags,drugers
racizm
horrible trafic,no roads,driving straight through around (dublin).
there is only 1 atraction,bars and pubs.By the way i don't drink at all.
Anyway Ireland is a temporary stop.We just gonna earn a bit money and come back home.Our economy is growing up very fast,so,maybe in the near future,u'll come to work to Lithuania:)

BEAT

hardox wrote:

Ireland would be a great place to live if not:
irish weather
scumbags,drugers
racizm
horrible trafic,no roads,driving straight through around (dublin).
there is only 1 atraction,bars and pubs.By the way i don't drink at all.
Anyway Ireland is a temporary stop.We just gonna earn a bit money and come back home.Our economy is growing up very fast,so,maybe in the near future,u'll come to work to Lithuania:)

I have news for you, weather is unpredictable all over the planet. (I happen to love the weather in Ireland over all else)
scumbags and racism happens all over the planet.
pubs are not the only draw to the country and to say so is demeaning.
Last I heard the economy was booming in Ireland as well...
You are welcome to your opnions though as I said before.

Rudolph Claus

hardox wrote:

Ireland would be a great place to live if not:
irish weather
scumbags,drugers
racizm
horrible trafic,no roads,driving straight through around (dublin).
there is only 1 atraction,bars and pubs.By the way i don't drink at all.
Anyway Ireland is a temporary stop.We just gonna earn a bit money and come back home.Our economy is growing up very fast,so,maybe in the near future,u'll come to work to Lithuania:)

Do you mind me asking and telling what your working at here? Have you encountered much racism/scumbags/druggers?

7aken

i dont think i would just yet. id put it down to the urge to expand my horizons however and not as much the reasons people have mentioned above. i dont think ireland is such a bad place. scangers and the likes seem to be part of logical social progression and the problem i have with it is that nothing much is being done to address it. Ireland seems to be a less 'personal' place to me. in terms of comparison of with where im living now (seychelles) ireland has a lot more going for it in terms of economy and employment but thats about it.

there is a restricted currency where i am which means i cant exchange it anywhere else in the world and its not very valuable anyway. there are also restrictions on the amount you can exchange for forex. when i go home to ireland at christmas the banks here are only allowed to sell me $400. needless to say there is a thriving black market for forex and this obviously leads to some social problems but nothing on par with ireland. the population of the entire country is only 80.000 so no big city life here, i guess to some that could give a feeling of cluasthrophobia (mad spelling) but i like it. the population 'fits' the country. you've only got to look at any sites dedicated to seychelles to see why it is so infinetly more appealing to certain senses than ireland. all the same, i will return to ireland sometime, i just see it happening....

hardox

what about atractions on the beach.Can't see even cabanas there.What,people don't like to enjoy the sea on summer time?

metrovelvet

The one thing that really drives me crazy over all others is how you never know where you stand with people.

And also people tell you what they think you want to hear rather than being upfront.

Its crazymaking.

darkman2

horrible trafic,no roads,driving straight through around (dublin).

Thats a silly thing to say. We have the biggest infrastructural development program going on in Europe. The roads are getting far better here now then they were even 5 years ago.

dSTAR

Blub2k4 wrote:

I'd suggest you take the reports of rampant thuggery with a large pinch of salt, possibly even change your news sources, cos it sounds like you've been reading sensationalist tabloids...

Actually most of it comes from reading fellow boardies posts regarding certain incidents that have occurred in Dublin such as the Dublin riots and the evergrowing problem of knackers accosting innocent tourists. I had two Australian friends who visited Dublin comment how dirty the place was, how many drunks there were staggering around the streets and how unsafe they felt being in the city centre at night.

Now I know that there are good and bad places EVERYWHERE. I have lived in many dodgy areas including Dolphin's Barn in Dublin, Brixton in London and The Mission District in San Francisco. They all had high crime rates. But the point I am making is that the knacker epidemic does NOT seem to be confined to a few bad areas in Dublin. You can be walking down the street in Dublin on a fine day and see some total scum bag kicking the crap out of someone for no reason. I have never seen that ANYWHERE else.

If thuggery worries you how do you feel about foreigners being hunted and beaten down the streets like happened in Oz there a while back, but then you'd consider the aussies more welcoming of foreigners, maybe it's cos we dont have them in "friendly" concentration camps????

Whose being sensationalist now?? :rolleyes:

Blub2k4

dSTAR wrote:

Actually most of it comes from reading fellow boardies posts regarding certain incidents that have occurred in Dublin such as the Dublin riots and the evergrowing problem of knackers accosting innocent tourists. I had two Australian friends who visited Dublin comment how dirty the place was, how many drunks there were staggering around the streets and how unsafe they felt being in the city centre at night.

Now I know that there are good and bad places EVERYWHERE. I have lived in many dodgy areas including Dolphin's Barn in Dublin, Brixton in London and The Mission District in San Francisco. They all had high crime rates. But the point I am making is that the knacker epidemic does NOT seem to be confined to a few bad areas in Dublin. You can be walking down the street in Dublin on a fine day and see some total scum bag kicking the crap out of someone for no reason. I have never seen that ANYWHERE else.

Whose being sensationalist now?? :rolleyes:

So the incident with the riots didn't happen about two months ago in Oz?
You dont have detention camps for the incoming asylum seekers?
That clears that up then.

I lived in Germany where there was an incident in the redlight district one week, it culminated in 5 guys being shot with automatic weapons on the street when a deal went wrong, a few weeks later two guys walked into an ice cream cafe and shot two kurdish dealers, the police were patrolling the streets with HK's for a few weeks after that. I knew a first hand witness to the first incident......yet dublin streets are dangerous...yeah right.

I'd suggest that you get less news from the bigots in after hours and more from the politics forum.

Occidental

I lived in the Uk for 10+ years. During the time away, I felt myself drift further and further away and got to the stage where I couldn't see myself returning. Marraige and impending childbirth changed everything(your child's being brought up in Ireland. Are you coming or not?) and we moved back five years ago.

The first few years were very strange and I missed the UK more than I thought I would. Gradually everthing settled and I'm now beginning to feel at home again. I've still not got used to haggling over price, laxly enforced laws and the general corruption of the place, but bizzarely, some of the things I hate about the country are also the things I love.

Would I have come if hadn't been for the wife? Probably not initially, but more likely as my parents and siblings aged.

Am I glad we did it? Definitly, though I mightn't have agreed a few years back.

Jimoslimos wrote:

It saddens me that over on the Midlands board they're salivating at the prospect of a large British department chain-store opening in Athlone/Mullingar

Most Athlone people are salivating at the idea of having a decent Shopping Centre in the town, as opposed to getting windburned and soaked on the trek out to former rat infested marsh, now called Golden Island. Personally I'd love to see Superquin open in the new centre. I'd also like to see the town centre and Shannon bridge pedestrianised and a new road bridge south of the town. I was delighted to see SAS open a Radisson in the town, as much as I was delighted to see Lidl and Aldi. Maybe we're just happy to have a choice, after years of small towns being held to ransom by one or two local business families.

darkman2

dSTAR wrote:

Actually most of it comes from reading fellow boardies posts regarding certain incidents that have occurred in Dublin such as the Dublin riots and the evergrowing problem of knackers accosting innocent tourists. I had two Australian friends who visited Dublin comment how dirty the place was, how many drunks there were staggering around the streets and how unsafe they felt being in the city centre at night.

Now I know that there are good and bad places EVERYWHERE. I have lived in many dodgy areas including Dolphin's Barn in Dublin, Brixton in London and The Mission District in San Francisco. They all had high crime rates. But the point I am making is that the knacker epidemic does NOT seem to be confined to a few bad areas in Dublin. You can be walking down the street in Dublin on a fine day and see some total scum bag kicking the crap out of someone for no reason. I have never seen that ANYWHERE else.

Whose being sensationalist now?? :rolleyes:

Living here I dont recognise the Dublin your talking about. Your generalisations are absurd actually. I dont know whether to laugh or cry tbh. Ive never had a problem in Dublin. Crime happens in Dublin like anywhere else. BTW its nowhere near as bad as most US cities. Needless to say ppl on this board go over the top creating a storm in a teacup for most problems we have. As for the 'knackerism' , thats pretty much confined to certain areas. Indeed its mainly in parts of the Northside (and I live on the northside).

Black Swan

Move back? Yes, as soon as my gig is done.

Sunny_Dublin

having moved to ireland 4 years ago obviously the question for me is not "would i come back". i'd like to comment on some of the points raised though.
personally i think dublin is safe enough, given the size of the city. i stay away from areas which are undoubtely unsafe (no midnight walks in ballymun for example) but have also lived in parts of the town some people would consider slightly rotten. cabra/stoneybatter and the monto for example. never had i bigger problems than my car being broken into.
the only thing that strikes me about ireland and dublin in particular is that violence can happen so randomly.one street is fine, the one next to it isn't. this is unusual having lived in other cities and/or countries and adds some insecurity to the normal risks of living in a city.....
rascism... well, i am german and that has been enough for the one or the other to comment on my nationality but i for most parts was welcomed and had no problems. i know though that asian looking colleagues of mine had far bigger problems and eperienced open hostility. that again though is not at all unusual in big cities (sadly enough).
darkman, saying that the roads are better now than they were 5 years ago might be true but doesn't help when the roads are still crap. yes, they are working on it, but there is still a long way ago. this for one might be a reason for some people to not consider ireland, transportation (and the health system, but this is another story) is simply unacceptable at times.
all in all i think that people who left this country will come back despite the weather, the ****ty traffic and the house prices, if they feel that this is truly their home. no statistics or bad news will really convince them otherwise cause this is where they want to be. inthis whole spirit of "home is where the heart is" kinda thing... where you want to live is never a rational decision made by pros and cons. it;s about what makes you happy despite the rational reasons. on the pros/cons argument i'd be long back in germany...

MisterAnarchy

BEAT wrote:

I have news for you, weather is unpredictable all over the planet. (I happen to love the weather in Ireland over all else)

Are you well ?
The Irish climate is one of the most unhealthy climates in the world.
Damp,cloudy,temperamental.
The long dark evenings and dark overcast winter days are hugely depressing and sadly most peoples's outlet seems to be the pub.
The major factor in playing most sports I like is linked to the weather.
Golf ,tennis,soccer,are all hindered by our climate something I didnt encounter when living in Spain.

darkman2

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Are you well ?
The Irish climate is one of the most unhealthy climates in the world.
Damp,cloudy,temperamental.
The long dark evenings and dark overcast winter days are hugely depressing and sadly most peoples's outlet seems to be the pub.
The major factor in playing most sports I like is linked to the weather.
Golf ,tennis,soccer,are all hindered by our climate something I didnt encounter when living in Spain.

This summer was definatley an exception to that:D Even today was sunny through and through and very warm. PPL generalise Irish weather too much.

spuddy

I'm with Beat on this one. I miss Irish weather. A dose of hot sunshine may be pleasant for a week or two, but soon you begin to tire of suncream and having a red nose.

You find yourself hunting down bits of shade and not wanting to do any work because it's far too sweaty.

After three or four weeks of really hot weather in July, I found myself dreaming of being cold. I had no idea how lucky we are in Ireland having weather that we don't notice, weather that doesn't slap us in the face everytime we set foot outside the door.

Ruu_Old

Too right re: weather, in Illinois this summer has been a killer for me. A few weeks it was well between 30-40C and I could catch a breath most days with the humidity. My pale Irish skin can't handle it! Home in a few weeks and will enjoy it.

daiske

metrovelvet wrote:

The one thing that really drives me crazy over all others is how you never know where you stand with people.

And also people tell you what they think you want to hear rather than being upfront.

Its crazymaking.

I totally agree.

BEAT

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Are you well ?
The Irish climate is one of the most unhealthy climates in the world.
Damp,cloudy,temperamental.
The long dark evenings and dark overcast winter days are hugely depressing and sadly most peoples's outlet seems to be the pub.
The major factor in playing most sports I like is linked to the weather.
Golf ,tennis,soccer,are all hindered by our climate something I didnt encounter when living in Spain.

Having had it both ways I'd choose Ireland climate to the Ohio climate any friggin day of the year. The winter is much more pleasant than in Ohio where we get 3 feet of snow and the roads are sheets of ice making everyday of the 6 month long winter pure HELL. People who have lived here all thier lives still seem to act like its thier first time driving on ice covered streets and traffic gets flucked up every single day. there isnt a singla flucking day that goes by without a traffic jam because some moron thought thier car was special and wouldnt slide into a guard rail or another car making a 13 car pile up etc...
it's amazing how stupid these people are.
I'd rather have the rain and overcastness than the snow, ice and other crap that comes along with it anyday.
Summer is also a pain because it doesnt just get nice out it gets unbearable! Its hard to enjoy summer when you have to go indoors for the airconditioning because its blistering heat and humidity are killer outside!
Ofcourse Im thankful for the days when its nice enough to stay outside all day and night and not be sheltered inside by the snow or heat but those days are too few and far between.
Spring and autumn are very short here, winter seems to outlast all else and summer gets confused with the other seasons anymore lol

I could go on and on but I think you get my point