Censorship on the soccer forum

The Muppet

Is there a new policy here that allows mods close any thread they wish even if the does not breach the charter? I refer to the locking of the Keane apologises thread here . I am not a big fan of censorship especially when there is no breach of the charter.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum but I did pm the soccer mods yesterday via the report post feature but got no reply .

gosplan

In fairness I can see where they were going with that.

There must have been a million threads on the Saipan incident at this stage.

WhiteWashMan

so what?

locking a thread because a mod doesnt like it is bad moderatorship.

~Rebel~

Anyone know what the story is with the Lucas Neil Liverpool thread? was the closest thing to a transfer thread since the big one was taken off, was wondering if something happened on it and it got deleted or if it simply disappeared joining its giant brother in cyber heaven.

i should be a poet.

redspider

I agree that it shouldnt have been closed.

psi> I don't see that discussion will produce any new insight but I do predict it would produce quite a few bans.

Threads should not be locked just because they have a potential to produce bans. If that was the case then no contentious issue would be discussed here.

Its true that Saipan and Roy have been discussed to death, but this was new information and a new aspect to the whole saga.

I had a thread in another forum (non-soccer) also closed abruptly as the mod thought that it should not be discussed. Let people discuss, ban them if they break the charters. Drop the 'thought police' mode.

Redspider

fade2black

Deleting posts to make himself look good is also not on.

The Muppet

redspider wrote:

Its true that Saipan and Roy have been discussed to death, but this was new information and a new aspect to the whole saga.

Very True , plus the thread was not only about Saipan there is the club aspect to it too.

Drop the 'thought police' mode.

Redspider

Agreed, and reopen the thread please.

yop

Odd one that, he predict the lotto numbers for tonites Euro-Millions. What next, the cops will stop people leaving their houses because they predict that they will casue an accident or drink and drive!!

A new level for Soccer boards, predictive posting!

WhiteWashMan

not the paranormal mod for nothing you know.....

Villain

umm I think PSI jumped the gun there, surely there is enough mods now that they don't have to close threads because they think it may cause bannings, why preempt what might happen when there is enough mods to police the forum???

Hobart

The Muppet wrote:

Is there a new policy here that allows mods close any thread they wish even if the does not breach the charter? I refer to the locking of the Keane apologises thread here . I am not a big fan of censorship especially when there is no breach of the charter.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum but I did pm the soccer mods yesterday via the report post feature but got no reply .

He gave his reasons. Can't say I agree with his reasons, but, he is well within his rights as the mod of this forum to lock the thread if he feels that the reasons he sets out are valid.

fade2black wrote:

Deleting posts to make himself look good is also not on.

That's a different matter all together tbh.

Maybe the Feedback forum would be a better platform for this discussion?

fade2black

Hobart wrote:

That's a different matter all together tbh.

Maybe the Feedback forum would be a better platform for this discussion?

Scared of the place to be honest. Someone might give out to me.

~Rebel~

I posted one there yesterday just asking about the dreaded 3 letter company who's name we cannot say (didnt say it in that post either) just askin what the fuss is about, and asked bout the second liverpool lucas neil threads disappearance. Came back 5 mins later and *poof* gone without a trace! feedback me arse. no pm's, couldnt even find the thread in the bin after, was just gone. im startin to feel like Nowhere Man!

The Rooster

Cloud removed the Liverpool transfers thread because it had over 2000 posts, but said its not gone and may be back while he's doing some stuff re the speed of the overall forum.

However, the disappearance of the Lucan Neill thread which was the temp home of the Liverpool transfer thread is a mystery. It was never in the recycle bin either. There was no reason for it to be removed, and no excuse given that I saw.

therecklessone

~Rebel~ wrote:

I posted one there yesterday just asking about the dreaded 3 letter company who's name we cannot say (didnt say it in that post either) just askin what the fuss is about, and asked bout the second liverpool lucas neil threads disappearance. Came back 5 mins later and *poof* gone without a trace! feedback me arse. no pm's, couldnt even find the thread in the bin after, was just gone. im startin to feel like Nowhere Man!

What part of

we have been advised that there is to be no further discussion

is difficult to understand?

As for the Lucas Neill thread,

~Rebel~

i know that, but we're not children, just not a big fan of someone saying "you cant talk about this" without giving any sort of reason whatsoever beyond a very vague mention of legality. Its a public forum board for godsake. The whole point is that we should be able to chat or at least be given a reason why not. Its like people being pissed off they cant even mention Saipan without deletion anymore.

RE*AC*TOR

~Rebel~ wrote:

i know that, but we're not children, just not a big fan of someone saying "you cant talk about this" without giving any sort of reason whatsoever beyond a very vague mention of legality. Its a public forum board for godsake.

Go read up on some libel laws then come back and whinge if you like.

At the moment internet forums are treated like newspapers - anything posted to them is treated in the same manner as if it were published in a newspaper.

therecklessone

~Rebel~ wrote:

The whole point is that we should be able to chat or at least be given a reason why not.

When you pay the legal bills, you can say what you want.

This ain't the place for the discussion, if we keep it up this thread won't last long. Leave it there.

p.s. Google if you're that interested.

~Rebel~

i didn't come on to "whinge", i just mentioned it first as it was relevant to the thread and then when someone said "what part of dont discuss it dont you understand" i explained that im just not too happy with being kept totally in the dark and having the feedback thread (which was very light hearted and mildly inquisitive in the first place) deleted immediately without a pm or anything to simply say something like what you just said. Would have been happy out with
"sorry, at the moment it seems we can get in trouble for anything mentioned about them due to overly strict liable laws to the point that we can even mention what it was they got annoyed about in the first place with anyone."

<edit> christ this thread got very anti me all of a sudden!

<edit2> p.s thanks for the google tip, just found it, happy out now

padser

The Muppet wrote:

Very True , plus the thread was not only about Saipan there is the club aspect to it too.



Agreed, and reopen the thread please.

Being honest Id agree with taking it to feedback, its ridiculas that a thread gets locked on the basis thats its been done before, especially since there was new info now.

redspider

Guys, keep on topic. Discuss libel and the 'TLA issue' somewhere else plz. This topic was about the closure of a Roy Keane thread.

Speaking of which, the news of Roy's admission is less 'hot' than it was but you could always try and re-post the thread.

Anyway:

Muppet > "plus the thread was not only about Saipan there is the club aspect to it too."

Yes, indeed it was, Roy hinting that he crossed the line there too with Ferguson The question is, as you know, many people in this country and elsewhere backed Roy to the hilt at the time (for both incidents) and their stance that Roy was in the right. Now, Roy has admitted himself that he was in the wrong, although he has no regrets in doing what he did, he takes the good with the bad in his career, and we also took the good with the bad with what he did on the field (I'm alluding to the Alfie Haaland and other red-card incidents, etc). The courts in that case decided that he had crossed the line.

But the question for those that backed Roy to the hilt at these times (Saipan, Man Utd) is, have they now changed their mind? ie: Do they also agree with Roy that he crossed the white line, as he calls it, and do they now retract the arguments they made then?

Every football manager I have heard talk about the Saipan incident backed McCarthy to the hilt. Now Roy is even backing that stance. Surely the 'Roy lovers' will now also accept it, that he did cross the line?

Redspider

The Muppet

Yes, indeed it was, Roy hinting that he crossed the line there too with Ferguson The question is, as you know, many people in this country and elsewhere backed Roy to the hilt at the time (for both incidents) and their stance that Roy was in the right. Now, Roy has admitted himself that he was in the wrong, although he has no regrets in doing what he did, he takes the good with the bad in his career, and we also took the good with the bad with what he did on the field (I'm alluding to the Alfie Haaland and other red-card incidents, etc). The courts in that case decided that he had crossed the line.

But the question for those that backed Roy to the hilt at these times (Saipan, Man Utd) is, have they now changed their mind? ie: Do they also agree with Roy that he crossed the white line, as he calls it, and do they now retract the arguments they made then?

Every football manager I have heard talk about the Saipan incident backed McCarthy to the hilt. Now Roy is even backing that stance. Surely the 'Roy lovers' will now also accept it, that he did cross the line?

Redspider

This is not the thread to go into that or alledged defamation either, please keep it on topic, Unfotunately the thread that I started that could have facilitated the discussion above has been closed for no valid reason and withot explanation. Again I ask that it be unlocked as starting a new thread would no doubt lead to the possibility of me being banned and teh subject is a valid one for any soccer forum.


[Edit]

I have just revisited the thread and see that original last post which initally was just "Indeed" has been edited to include an totally unacceptabe reason for locking it.

Every thread on boards has the potential to degrade into a slanging match, If the mods (even paranormal ones)are to pre emptively going close threads and censor genuine discussion the admin may as well pull the plug on the servers and conserve energy.

johnos

I'm not sure any thread should be closed unless it is legally unsafe (especially given our libel regime) or is malicious or abusive.
I think that, just as in 'real' life, people have the right to be as dim, confused, and off-topic as they like (just as Irish people have the right to follow EPL ).
Imagine going into a bar and being told by a bouncer to end a conversation because it was off-topic or repetitive!

therecklessone

johnos wrote:

I think that, just as in 'real' life, people have the right to be as dim, confused, and off-topic as they like (just as Irish people have the right to follow EPL ).
Imagine going into a bar and being told by a bouncer to end a conversation because it was off-topic or repetitive!

Not quite the same.

Imagine going into a bar that had a sign clearly visible at the entrance laying out a series of rules on which entry was conditional, then being asked to leave the bar because you failed to follow the rules...

Locking threads because of what they might lead to something doesn't appear to be in the charter. Feedback is the place to discuss this though.

Some advice though...leave the "I have a right to" and "this is unacceptable" at the door before you enter.

therecklessone

The Muppet wrote:

Sorry if this is the wrong forum but I did pm the soccer mods yesterday via the report post feature but got no reply .

Couple of things Tom...

1. You know who locked the thread, you should PM psi directly and attempt to discuss the thread lockage. The mods may be in receipt of your reported post, but are discussing what to do between themselves. Decision stake time on boards.

2. In the event that you don't get a satisfactory reply, take it to feedback.

3. See my point above re. use of language.

Best of luck.

johnos

therecklessone wrote:

Some advice though...leave the "I have a right to" and "this is unacceptable" at the door before you enter.

Outside of the particular legal restrictions that apply in this jurisdiction, and the generally accepted boundaries of behaviour, do people not have the right to free speech on boards.ie? If they don't, then on what basis is the power to compromise that freedom exercised? Is it (property) ownership of the forum platform? Is it a democratically arrived at policy? Or is it simply diktat?
I'm interested, because this surely goes to the very heart of what a public forum is all about!

RE*AC*TOR

johnos wrote:

Outside of the particular legal restrictions that apply in this jurisdiction, and the generally accepted boundaries of behaviour, do people not have the right to free speech on boards.ie? If they don't, then on what basis is the power to compromise that freedom exercised? Is it (property) ownership of the forum platform? Is it a democratically arrived at policy? Or is it simply diktat?
I'm interested, because this surely goes to the very heart of what a public forum is all about!

Take it to Feedback.

WhiteWashMan

johnos wrote:

do people not have the right to free speech on boards.ie? If they don't, then on what basis is the power to compromise that freedom exercised?

no. you dont have the right to free speech on boards.ie.

the basis is generally recognised to be common sense, and occassionally some items, such as legal cases.

in fact, it was free speech that got boards into the court room in the first place.

johnos wrote:

is it (property) ownership of the forum platform? Is it a democratically arrived at policy? Or is it simply diktat?

it is not a democracy. when you pay for the servers and the bandwidth, then you may gain a say in what can and cannot happen here.
forum platofrms are simply extensions of boards.ie, and all fall under the remit of a centralised governance system.

in other words, the will of the few over rule everyone else.

johnos wrote:

I'm interested, because this surely goes to the very heart of what a public forum is all about!

maybe it does, but this isnt a public forum.

its a public access forum, but it is a very private company.

johnos

That's a straight, honest response. Can't ask for more than that.

KdjaCL

Sweet jesus ...

BIG threads closed by admins due to server raping.

Keane thread closed as there was a huge Keane to Sunderland thread which included the apoology.


I closed 2 liverpool transfer threads after the BIG threads were killed and will close another as another was created and posted in but seemingly it went to page 2 and people afraid to go there or to damn lazy. See bottom right hand corner 1,2,3,4,10,last page....try looking there.


kdjac

GuanYin

The last time the Keane/Saipan threads came up it decended into flamewar-ville, the decision was made then to ban the topic (or close threads on the topic) and that was it.

Admittedly, it has been re-opened bythe media, but as posters on the trhead said, "wrong on all sides, in the past, leave it in the past". Now it was already mentioned in the Keane thread and I've merged at least 3-4 threads in the past week because of multiple same topic threads and I didn't see any merit in that thread above what was in the Keane to Sunderland thread already.

On another note, Muppet, if you have an issue PM the mods, if you keep using report post function to answer closed threads I WILL ban you. That is not what it is there for. Understood?

Fade, I didn't delete posts to make myself look good, I deleted a rake of off-posts including ones where I warned you about going off topic to comment on a username for a user who you disagreed with. If you like I can undelete the posts just to remind me the next time you do it that you have already been warned about such behaviour and shouldn't need warning a second time.

Now, if anyone has any other issues, you can PM us or if you don't feel like doing the sensible thing, helpdesk and feedback are the places to take them.

GuanYin

Actually, having looked back I see I did make an error in expressing my reasons for closing the thread.

The Thread topic was "Keane apologies is Ferguson" with the actual text by the OP and the 4 replies rreferring almost exclusively to McCarthy, the FAI and Saipan.

The thread was not only old ground, but 100% off topic.

But, with this now in mind, I'll reopen the thread and so long as it is on topic I'll leave it run.