The british isles and Ireland.

robinph

Are the Swiss European?

Flex

Gurgle wrote:

You don't appear to have actually read my posts.

This thread is about the term 'The British Isles', not about 'British' as a nationality.

Calling an Irish person 'British' is perfectly good cause for protest, as we are not. 'British' referring to a person is a description of nationality, as in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Referring to Ireland as the second largest of the 'British Isles' is not imo objectionable because Ireland is geographically the second largest of the British Isles.

No, I have read your posts. You just seem to be trying to move the goalposts right now. People who have a problem with the term 'British Isles', in your opinion (and others in this thread), harbour a grudge. It seemed pretty obvious (to me anyway) that the implication was they have a grudge against the British, because if the term wasnt 'British Isles', implying that people from these isles are British, there probably wouldnt be a problem with it. People dont have a grudge with the '...Isles' part of the term. If it was called the 'British Archipeligo', it would still be unacceptable.

Unless you think people have a 'chip on their shoulder' towards the term 'British Isles' because it doesnt sound nice or something or that they have a grudge against whoever came up with the term and hence want it erased or changed or that they have a grudge because Britain is larger than Ireland, rather than because it includes the word 'British' and implies the people who live there are British, which would mean that you think people have a grudge with the British, which I stated earlier, which is only a way of trying to stifle debate, same as the 'you must be insecure in your Irishness/ have an inferiority complex/ have a chip on your shoulder' arguments (those have appeared plenty of times in this thread btw). Those arguments are the equivalent of me, or someone else who dislikes the term, saying 'anybody who likes that term is a West Brit/ unpatriotic/ takes no pride in being Irish/ etc'.

If the grudge isnt with the British, then who/what is it with and why do they have this grudge against whatever it is?

And yet again, do Irish rugby fans have a massive 'chip on thier shoulders' for getting the Lions name changed?

Flex

Gurgle wrote:

You don't appear to have actually read my posts.

This thread is about the term 'The British Isles', not about 'British' as a nationality.

Calling an Irish person 'British' is perfectly good cause for protest, as we are not. 'British' referring to a person is a description of nationality, as in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Referring to Ireland as the second largest of the 'British Isles' is not imo objectionable because Ireland is geographically the second largest of the British Isles.

No, I have read your posts. You just seem to be trying to move the goalposts right now. People who have a problem with the term 'British Isles', in your opinion (and others in this thread), harbour a grudge. It seemed pretty obvious (to me anyway) that the implication was they have a grudge against the British, because if the term wasnt 'British Isles', implying that people from these isles are British, there probably wouldnt be a problem with it. People dont have a grudge with the '...Isles' part of the term. If it was called the 'British Archipeligo', it would still be unacceptable.

Unless you think people have a 'chip on their shoulder' towards the term 'British Isles' because it doesnt sound nice or something or that they have a grudge against whoever came up with the term and hence want it erased or changed or that they have a grudge because Britain is larger than Ireland, rather than because it includes the word 'British' and implies the people who live there are British, which would mean that you think people have a grudge with the British, which I stated earlier, which is only a way of trying to stifle debate, same as the 'you must be insecure in your Irishness/ have an inferiority complex/ have a chip on your shoulder' arguments (those have appeared plenty of times in this thread btw). Those arguments are the equivalent of me, or someone else who dislikes the term, saying 'anybody who likes that term is a West Brit/ unpatriotic/ takes no pride in being Irish/ etc'.

If the grudge isnt with the British, then who/what is it with and why do they have this grudge against whatever it is?

And yet again, do Irish rugby fans have a massive 'chip on thier shoulders' for getting the Lions name changed?

LordSutch

Gurgle is correct you know!
The term is used in strictly 'Geographical' terms only, and as such, Ireland (the island of) is the second largest of the British isles!
(this is a geographical fact).

Please view post #180 and #235 for clarification.

Flex

ArthurF wrote:

Gurgle is correct you know!
The term is only used in strictly 'Geographical' terms, and as such, Ireland (the island of) is the second largest of the British isles!
(this is a geographical fact).

Please view post #180 for clarification.

What about people from Scandinavia being referred to as Scandinavian and so on despite Scandinavia being a geographic term, for example. And as people have pointed out already, the term has been used by people to imply people from Ireland are British by virtue of being in the 'British Isles'. And why was the name of the Lions changed if its only a geographic term?

LordSutch

Flex wrote:

What about people from Scandinavia being referred to as Scandinavian and so on despite Scandinavia being a geographic term, for example. And as people have pointed out already, the term has been used by people to imply people from Ireland are British by virtue of being in the 'British Isles'. And why was the name of the Lions changed if its only a geographic term?

Flex, I really dunno why you have such a bee in your bonnet about this ancient term 'British Isles', its very rarely used these days anyway, and when it is, its usually by Cartographers ~ Seizmologists ~ Weather men ~ or Government departments investigating climate change (re the Gulf Stream) which flows past the British Isles and greatly influences our climate!

God forbid if anyone thought an Irish person was British, it is probably a terrible slur on any law abiding Irish patriot, but seriously ..................

Anybody that has attained 'Higher level' Geography in their leaving Cert, or has been to Uni (studying Geography) will be only too aware that the term 'British isles' is a geographical term only, and does not in any way, shape, or form imply that the peoples of these islands are British.
(even though 90%+ probably are).

(You are constantly confusing a Geographical term with Nationality).

Flex

ArthurF wrote:

Flex, I really dunno why you have such a bee in your bonnet about this ancient term 'British Isles', its very rarely used these days anyway, and when it is, its usually by Cartographers ~ Seizmologists ~ Weather men ~ or Government departments investigating climate change (re the Gulf Stream) which flows past the British Isles and greatly influences our climate!

Iv made clear why I dislike/'have a bee in my bonnet' about the term already. Furthermore, if it is so rarely used and of little importance or significance then whats the massive problem with changing it?

God forbid if anyone thought an Irish person was British, it is probably a terrible slur on any law abiding Irish patriot, but seriously ..................

Yes, I cant think of any reason why an Irish person could take issue with wrongly being called British, I really really cant

Anybody that has attained 'Higher level' Geography in their leaving Cert, or has been to Uni (studying Geography) will be only too aware that the term 'British isles' is a geographical term only, and does not in any way, shape, or form imply that the peoples of these islands are British.
(even though 90%+ probably are).

I got an A1 in the Higher Level Geography paper in the Leaving Cert in 2004. I never recall using the term 'British Isles' or reading any chapters about the 'British Isles'. And once again, why was it the Lions had to change their name if the term carries no geopolitical baggage? Probably because they were being polite, respectful and courteous and realised that the term 'British Isles' cannot simply be brushed aside as a purely geographic term in the context of Ireland and Britain because it has geopolitical implications.

(You are constantly confusing a Geographical term with Nationality).

Youre being naive thinking that the term 'British Isles' has no geopolitical issues.

gurramok

ArthurF wrote:

Flex, I really dunno why you have such a bee in your bonnet about this ancient term 'British Isles', its very rarely used these days anyway, and when it is, its usually by Cartographers ~ Seizmologists ~ Weather men ~ or Government departments investigating climate change (re the Gulf Stream) which flows past the British Isles and greatly influences our climate!
.

Your missing something, it's only used by British Cartographers, Seizmologists, Weather men, Government departments not Irish ones.

ArthurF wrote:

Anybody that has attained 'Higher level' Geography in their leaving Cert, or has been to Uni (studying Geography) will be only too aware that the term 'British isles' is a geographical term only, and does not in any way, shape, or form imply that the peoples of these islands are British.
(even though 90%+ probably are).

The term never appeared in the school textbooks i was studying in Geography for the leaving Cert.

ArthurF wrote:

(You are constantly confusing a Geographical term with Nationality).

Your quite happy to call it British Isles as you have declared yourself on Boards before as a 'Southern Unionist', thats your point of view.

No confusion at all, just so happens there is a large island called Ireland where the governmental majority do not use the outdated B.I. term, its not even legally accepted here.
2 large islands Ireland and Britain, where one of them is not even remotely British but Irish, no confusion at all.

Gurgle is wrong

LordSutch

I see that the tail end of Hurricane Gordon is approaching the British Isles!
(21st/Sept/2006).

gurramok

ArthurF wrote:

I see that the tail end of Hurricane Gordon is approaching the British Isles!
(21st/Sept/2006).

It's approaching Ireland as well

LordSutch

Very funny gurramok, but if Ireland is not part of these islands then what grouping of islands do we belong to?

Britain Lover

What's the problem with being a part of the British Isles? These islands have more in common with any other place in Europe. Britain is one of the best places in the world.. you should want to be a part of it.

SmoothyG

Imo, if those unaware mistakenly think that we are british because of the term british isles, then they can easily be told the opposite. why would you be offended if someone thought that, just correct them, or do the people with a problem with the term really really hate having to correct a tourist on thier use of terms?

I dont see the south americans having this problem with the USA.

SmoothyG

Flex wrote:

Youre being naive thinking that the term 'British Isles' has no geopolitical issues.

and you are being over sensitive to think anyone outside those who share your opinion care, its a pointless rage: one side arguing that this is wrong, we need action!!!! and the other side saying we dont care and the later is by far the majority. its like an angry drunk looking for a fight

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Britain Lover wrote:

What's the problem with being a part of the British Isles? These islands have more in common with any other place in Europe. Britain is one of the best places in the world.. you should want to be a part of it.

The trick with trolling, lover, is to keep it subtle.

LordSutch

Slightly OTT Britain Lover dont you think? ~ for sixteen pages I was desperately trying hard to steer this thread in a strictly 'Geographical direction' and then you come along & throw a giant political grenade into this thread & give-in to your basic, neanderthal BNP instincts!

Thanks a lot ~ NOT.

gurramok

ArthurF wrote:

Slightly OTT Britain Lover dont you think? ~ for sixteen pages I was desperately trying hard to steer this thread in a strictly 'Geographical direction' and then you come along & throw a giant political grenade into this thread & give-in to your basic, neanderthal BNP instincts!

Thanks a lot ~ NOT.

Well a true Brit Lover(not yourself, the other fellow) has spoken of what the British Isles are really about, he just bombed your argument on the matter

simu

The more trivial the issue, the longer the thread. Ah, how I've missed AH in my brief absence!

OT: The term annoys me, don't know why. Possibly because abroad, people seem to assume Ireland is part if the UK and us being bundled in with them under the term "British" adds to that. How about a new, neutral and possibly wacky name? Twould brighten up the atlases.

Ruu_Old

Off Topic: Yore back *huggiez*

Flex

SmoothyG wrote:

and you are being over sensitive to think anyone outside those who share your opinion care, its a pointless rage: one side arguing that this is wrong, we need action!!!! and the other side saying we dont care and the later is by far the majority. its like an angry drunk looking for a fight

You think theres no geopolitical implications to Ireland being classed as a 'British Island' given the history of this island? And the latter in your above analogy is not the majority, nor is the former group suffering from a 'pointless rage' and acting like 'angry drunks looking for a fight' (more name calling by the 'pro-British isles' crowd, what a surprise :rolleyes: ). The majority would be composed of people like me; do want the term changed but at the same time not losing sleep over it. And its not a 'pointless rage', nor is there any urgency or attempt to rally people to 'take action!!!!', I doubt very much the faith of the term in question hinges on the outcome of this thread.

Cunny-Funt

Its the british isles coz when it was named thats excatly what they where. But not anymore!!
We deserve our own identity, and there is an unbeliavable about ingnorance out there in the world about our country and anything that gives us more identity the better.

You know well the british would uproar if they were called the "Irish isles".

The name British isles implies "The british Islands" & this is wrong. Its not being anti british. Its being pro Irish. There is a difference


So what are the chances of this name being changed?? Is this actually something we could see in the future?

delta_bravo

Cunny-Funt wrote:

Its the british isles coz when it was named thats excatly what they where. But not anymore!!
We deserve our own identity, and there is an unbeliavable about ingnorance out there in the world about our country and anything that gives us more identity the better.

You know well the british would uproar if they were called the "Irish isles".

The name British isles implies "The british Islands" & this is wrong. Its not being anti british. Its being pro Irish. There is a difference


So what are the chances of this name being changed?? Is this actually something we could see in the future?

i doubt this will EVER be changed. the united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland owns land on both islands of the british isles. the republic of ireland does not have a claim on both islands so they would never be called the irish isles. also, it is merely a geographical term

Cunny-Funt

LOL well of course it will never be called the irish isles:p I wasnt actually saying change the name to irish isles. I'd want a name that simply doesnt imply BOTH islands are britsh. EVEN if its merely a geographical term. Because so many ppl out there still think Irish = English.

One would hope it will change if/when we get the rest of our country back.

LordSutch

Hi there cunny-funt/
Looks like you really need to read post #235 & #265 amongst others to see what 'British isles' actually means!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cunny-Funt wrote:

Its the british isles coz when it was named thats excatly what they where. But not anymore!!
We deserve our own identity, and there is an unbeliavable about ingnorance out there in the world about our country and anything that gives us more identity the better.

You know well the british would uproar if they were called the "Irish isles".

The name British isles implies "The british Islands" & this is wrong. Its not being anti british. Its being pro Irish. There is a difference


So what are the chances of this name being changed?? Is this actually something we could see in the future?

Is this something we should be losing sleep over...? And what do you mean by "more identity"? An 'identity' representing four and a bit million people is a bit on the conforming side if you ask me. Regardless of what they call it I know who I am...

LordSutch

lOOKS LIKE WE HAVE ALL RUN OUT OF STEAM?

And the result is thus: The majority of people subscribing to this thread dont acknowledge the term, even though it is still universally recognised in scientific & geographical fields as mentioned in this thread!

The minority who do recognise the term 'British Isles' understand that it is not a political or Anti Irish term, but rather a scientific & geographical term describing these particular rocks sticking out of the sea!

Which probably leaves everybody where they started on page one
(until the next time)

Adios ............................

A Dub in Glasgo

ArthurF wrote:

The minority who do recognise the term 'British Isles' understand that it is not a political or Anti Irish term, but rather a scientific & geographical term describing these particular rocks sticking out of the sea!

You know this how exactly?

Terry

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You know this how exactly?

i'm assuming it's because he read the opinions posted here and looked at the poll results.
anyway, i'll never recognise the term and when i'm in government i'll change it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ArthurF wrote:

lOOKS LIKE WE HAVE ALL RUN OUT OF STEAM?

And the result is thus: The majority of people subscribing to this thread dont acknowledge the term, even though it is still universally recognised in scientific & geographical fields as mentioned in this thread!

The minority who do recognise the term 'British Isles' understand that it is not a political or Anti Irish term, but rather a scientific & geographical term describing these particular rocks sticking out of the sea!

Which probably leaves everybody where they started on page one
(until the next time)

Adios ............................

Ah come on, you can't just dismiss 329 posts of heated enternet debate like that!

Terry

i'm bored with this now. who started this pointless hread anyway?

county

julep wrote:

i'm bored with this now. who started this pointless hread anyway?

well, you know what to do now

Terry

county wrote:

well, you know what to do now

i'm not going to lock it.
i don't like locking threads and only do so in extreme circumstances. (trolling and spamming and the like)
this has been bumped and maybe someone who hasn't seen it before now might have an opinion on it.

Trinity

Didnt read the thread too long. Will probably be battered for this but for such patriotic people was disappointed in 1 measly reply to my thread regarding a bit of respect for the men that fought for our freedom.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054992193

Dave!

julep wrote:

i'm not going to lock it.

Then stop f*cking spamming at least

Trinity

DaveMcG wrote:

Then stop f*cking spamming at least

Whats spamming? DId i spam by posting a link

Dave!

I didn't feckin quote you, lol

Trinity

DaveMcG wrote:

I didn't feckin quote you, lol

i am a spamming virgin i wasnt sure what just happened but i guess if you quoted me i'd know it

Dave!

Trinity1 wrote:

i am a spamming virgin i wasnt sure what just happened but i guess if you quoted me i'd know it

Alright mate

JaysusMacfeck

Conclusion:

Irish people disagree with the term but don't really give a sh!te because they never use it anyway. If they could do away with the term, they would.

Changing the term to "The British & Irish Isles" would be welcomed by the majority of posters.

Dave!

Amen

dSTAR

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

...Regardless of what they call it I know who I am...

This is possibly the most lucid and significant statement made to date regarding this issue.

OFDM

What pisses me off is that whenever you see Ireland and the UK mentioned together it's always written as "UK and Ireland" - purposely writing the names out of alphabetical order gives the impression that Ireland inferior to the UK. :mad:

Case in point:
Google for "UK and Ireland" - 6.6 million results
Google for "Ireland and UK" - 0.24 million results

secret_squirrel

OFDM wrote:

gives the impression that Ireland inferior to the UK. :mad:

Jesus - insecure much?

Strangely enough by most Geopolitical measures Ireland is 'inferior'.

Lets see.

Land Area smaller
GDP smaller (GDP per capita higher afaik though)
World Influence smaller.
I could go on......

And does that mean Britain and Ireland is ok then?

OR perhaps Great Britian and Ireland.

Personally I dont believe Ireland is in any way inferior to the Uk regardless of what the Alphabet says. :rolleyes:

My god your shoulder must ache from that chip you are carrying on it. Get over it.

pvt. joker

as an american i don't understand why it would be called part of the british isles. that's like calling Cuba part of the american isles

Capt'n Midnight

pvt. joker wrote:

as an american i don't understand why it would be called part of the british isles. that's like calling Cuba part of the american isles

<cough> Puerto Rico <cough>

Brian Capture

I don't support the IRA.

Cunny-Funt

Brian Capture wrote:

I don't support the IRA.

huh? wtf does that have to do with this?

So we all agree that most people would want it changed and the rest couldnt care less.

Are there any that would be 100% against it being changed??

On that note, by some miracle our Gov. gets some balls and puts forth a proposal that the name be changed (maybe on the 100th anniversary or something)

How would you think the world, or really the UK would respond?

Victor

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2006/1002/1158591275647.html

Ruu_Old

There, are ye all happy now? British Isles is gone.

nuttz

Clarification at last, by the government as well,
please lock this thread???
It's now clear what the term refers to.
END OF STORY. FULL STOP. AMEN. LOCK THREAD.