Is this board an extension of Independent Newspapers?

sceptre

DublinWriter wrote:

Sorry, no I didn't, because to me, posts that include five quotes or more with mono-syllabic yes/no answers after each are just like flashing strobe lights are to an epileptic.

I’m not being funny…I just can’t read them. They appear like weird jigsaw puzzles to me.

Fair enough, here's a summary:

I only ban people for abuse and idiocy. I see no reason to change this. There are a number of other mods of the politics forum. I recommend that the user puts feedback in the Feedback forum as is requested/instructed in the Politics charter and I moved this thread here. Oh, I also answered the original question as to whether boards.ie was an off-shoot of the Indo.



To add: DeVore isn't a mod of the Politics forum. Carnivore isn't a mod on any forum. DeVore is an admin on this site and probably won't appreciate you assuming he's the same person as Carnivore (which I say without prejudice to either) as he's not. I've no idea whatever where you might have got that idea as it wouldn't have occurred to me at all apart from a few common letters in both names (and we've only got 5 vowels to play with so it probably isn't that uncommon). Additionally, while eloquence is nice, it isn't entirely necessary as long as people can remain reasonably polite, reasonably relevant, be willing to discuss the opposing points of others rather than just ploughing ahead as if they were the only person in the room and keep a reasonable remembrance of the rather basic rules that are attached to the board. Perfectly basic so it sometimes surprises me how people get to be banned at all.

Carnivore, I manage to work full-time and go to college full-time. There's only one of me and a little civility from you to a complainant would be worth more than nothing for something that costs precisely nothing, even a complainant that thinks a site-admin and site-owner would bother making a fake account to say naughty things about another user when they could just post it under their own user name. Attack the post (if you must, discussing it is better), not the poster, remember?

All of you could do with refraining from pointing out each other's spelling mistakes as, to me, that's worth less than nothing. Up to you though, it just means that rational people think less of your complaints or opinions.

Meanwhile, as irish1 kindly pointed out, the north-eastern part of this island tends to get far more attention on the Politics forum than it should, or than I'd like, though there's been rather less of that lately now people have another boogie man to discuss. I'm sure it'll come back in the cycle in which popular topics tend to arise. Unfortunately in my view, but then I'm just one of the board's janitors.

philologos

actually I think the opposite of this happened, there were some users banned recently for using derogitory comments about Sinn Féin the other day

Endymion

sceptre wrote:

Carnivore, I manage to work full-time and go to college full-time. There's only one of me and a little civility from you to a complainant would be worth more than nothing for something that costs precisely nothing, even a complainant that thinks a site-admin and site-owner would bother making a fake account to say naughty things about another user when they could just post it under their own user name. Attack the post (if you must, discussing it is better), not the poster, remember?

You worked full time, as in 9-5? Or was it part time? like after college for afew hours or the weekends? If Dublinwriter managed to work his way through a Bsc degree in trinity(30 - 40) hours a week(thats an informed opinion btw) while also holding down a full time job of say 35 hours a week, then fair play to him.

As for civil, I fail to see why I should be civil to someone who reads insults into my posts while blatantly ignoring my direct reference to his questionable lineage.

Your truely Tom Murphy

sceptre

Carnivore wrote:

You worked full time, as in 9-5? Or was it part time? like after college for afew hours or the weekends?

Full-time as in over 35 hours a week for each. I fail to see what part of "full time" you could mix up with "part time". I think it's reasonable to say that my current or future daily schedule and your business haven't much in common.

Obviously I fail to see what this has to do with the original topic of the thread so if you could keep to discussing that or something vaguely related to it or nothing you'll not be wasting time.

As for civil, I fail to see why I should be civil to someone who reads insults into my posts while blatantly ignoring my direct reference to his questionable lineage.

Because you're ban-worthy if you don't. I'd consider that a good enough reason. It remains a good enough reason regardless of whether you agree with me or not.

I'm only leaving this open because I don't like locking Feedback threads and there's always the chance that someone might have something relevant to say. And WWM probably won't be around for a little while and I always enjoy his additions to Feedback threads. Other people with the ability to lock this mightn't be as patient or as blindly hopeful as I.

Endymion

sceptre wrote:

Full-time as in over 35 hours a week for each. I fail to see what part of "full time" you could mix up with "part time". I think it's reasonable to say that my current or future daily schedule and your business haven't much in common.

You made it a topic of discussion. It's not like I decide to pry into your private life .I asked you to elaborate as to what "full time means to you". I know people for whom 24 hours a week would be "full time". I think that full tiem work and college is quiet an achievement. If I'm off topic, well yea know, you are to.

Because you're ban-worthy if you don't. I'd consider that a good enough reason. It remains a good enough reason regardless of whether you agree with me or not.

I'm not posting on politics. I haven't been civil, but as yet I haven't directly insulted him. Now if you want civility to be a requirement I suggest you make a change the charter request on the mod forum or some such.

I'm only leaving this open because I don't like locking Feedback threads and there's always the chance that someone might have something relevant to say.

As I understand it Feedback forum isn't in your remit as an Smod. Maybe I'm wrong. But aren't your duties to ban spammers, and the like, not to actually pass judgments on whether or not normal users should be banned based on posts in forums you don't actually mod. No disrespect, but who exactly are you to determine my ban worthiness? And if that is part of "what you do" why don't you do it on other forums you don't mod? Like after hours or maybe tunderdome.

If search function was enabled I'd drag up a thread where all this was trashed out months back.

Other people with the ability to lock this mightn't be as patient or as blindly hopeful as I.

heres hoping.

Carnivore

Carnivore wrote:

You made it a topic of discussion. It's not like I decide to pry into your private life .I asked you to elaborate as to what "full time means to you". I know people for whom 24 hours a week would be "full time". I think that full tiem work and college is quiet an achievement. If I'm off topic, well yea know, you are to.

Would you quit the attitude please,this board is a community and some people give of their time to make it run smoothly and are understandably annoyed when people approach them with a hissy fit.
Theres no need for an attitude.

I'm not posting on politics. I haven't been civil, but as yet I haven't directly insulted him. Now if you want civility to be a requirement I suggest you make a change the charter request on the mod forum or some such.

Well if you want to stay around here,then Do be civil.I cant ban you from here,I cant site ban you,but I do know,an attitude like yours probably will do your reputation around here no good.

As I understand it Feedback forum isn't in your remit as an Smod. Maybe I'm wrong. But aren't your duties to ban spammers, and the like, not to actually pass judgments on whether or not normal users should be banned based on posts in forums you don't actually mod. No disrespect,

Most smods come in here and answer queries,they dont have to,but they do and they can and will ban for misbehaviour here as in any of the sites fora.

but who exactly are you to determine my ban worthiness?

As stated already, an Smod does have it within their remit to determine your ban worthiness.You carry on the way you are going and if you are banned for whatever,you'll get short shrift I'd imagine if you appeal it to an admin for carrying on the way you are unnecessarally in this thread.

And if that is part of "what you do" why don't you do it on other forums you don't mod? Like after hours or maybe tunderdome.

Actually FYI Smods and Cmods, do deal with muppetry in all fora when the forum mod is not around.

BossArky

Carnivore wrote:

Oh a trinity old boy. As if that wasn't obvious.

Also, how did you manage to work full time and go to college? Are there two of you? Do you share you brain with some else? Could that explain you posts? Our panel says YES.

For what it is worth, I did an M.Sc whilst working in a chipper 7 days a week, weekdays 6pm-11pm, weekends 9am-9pm. Its what most people I know do/did to some extend at Uni unless being fortunate enough to have a grant or silver spoon.

stovelid

Are you crouching beside an ATM with a laptop or something?

DublinWriter wrote:

Indeed.

*Folds up two ATM-fresh €50 notes and puts then back in his pocket*

Draupnir

sceptre wrote:

Please keep in mind that all posts are copyrighted to their authors

Is that true? Sounds wrong to me

Endymion

Tristrame wrote:

Would you quit the attitude please,this board is a community and some people give of their time to make it run smoothly and are understandably annoyed when people approach them with a hissy fit.
Theres no need for an attitude.

tbh I found it kinda offensive Being told that sceptres personal business is non of my business, as if I suddenly decided to demand from him intimate knowledge as to how he spent his college years. He brought up his time in university, not I.

Well if you want to stay around here,then Do be civil.I cant ban you from here,I cant site ban you,but I do know,an attitude like yours probably will do your reputation around here no good.

What is here? Feedback or boards? I've been around along long time con.

Most smods come in here and answer queries,they dont have to,but they do and they can and will ban for misbehaviour here as in any of the sites fora. As stated already, an Smod does have it within their remit to determine your ban worthiness.You carry on the way you are going and if you are banned for whatever,you'll get short shrift I'd imagine if you appeal it to an admin for carrying on the way you are unnecessarally in this thread. Actually FYI Smods and Cmods, do deal with muppetry in all fora when the forum mod is not around.

As I understand it, Cmods and Smods have different roles. A Cmod is equivalent to a forum moderator, however an Smod isn't ment to interfer in the internal working of a forum. To the best of my knowledge the idea behind smod was that they only act when a moderator can't, or when abuse is wide spread accross several forums. There are moderators for this forum.

Now all that said, I can't find the threads where all this was discussed some months back(Amp Vs Talli if i recall), and the role of Smods may have been amended since that time without my knowledge since I can't post in the mod forum.

One last point, Was it it you believe that I should be banned for having a "bad attitude" where as other users aren't while refering to a complaint as "Bitching and whinging" and calling the complainant a twat. If Smods are going to moderate the feedback forum, the least they could do would be a fair job of it.

BossArky its common enough to work full time while doing an Msc. I find the 'working full time from 18 while doing science in trinity' hard to believe since it certainly isn't common.

DublinWriter

Carnivore wrote:

As I understand it, Cmods and Smods have different roles. A Cmod is equivalent to a forum moderator, however an Smod isn't ment to interfer in the internal working of a forum. To the best of my knowledge the idea behind smod was that they only act when a moderator can't, or when abuse is wide spread accross several forums. There are moderators for this forum.

I find it amazing how you know so much about the workings of boards with only 258 posts since 2001.

After ten times that many posts, I couldn't tell the difference between an Cmod and an Smod. Maybe it's just my ignorance.

Will you confirm for the record that you are not Devore?

Carnivore wrote:

BossArky its common enough to work full time while doing an Msc. I find the 'working full time from 18 while doing science in trinity' hard to believe since it certainly isn't common.

I did the TCD Information Systems BSc part time over 5 years and graduated in 1996. Part time BSc and BA programmes are not uncommon - many universities and colleges offer them.

Endymion

DublinWriter wrote:

I find it amazing how you know so much about the workings of boards with only 258 posts since 2001.

After ten times that many posts, I couldn't tell the difference between an Cmod and an Smod. Maybe it's just my ignorance.

Will you confirm for the record that you are not Devore?

Will the real Tom Murphy please stand up, please stand up. Your "ignorance" as you call it, is obvious if you think Devore could be arsed pretending to be me.

As to what I know, I may be wrong. I'm open to correction from an admin on the subject.

I did the TCD Information Systems BSc part time over 5 years and graduated in 1996. Part time BSc and BA programmes are not uncommon - many universities and colleges offer them.

So full time work and part time college as apposed to full time work and college.Thats fairly common.

seamus

DublinWriter wrote:

After ten times that many posts, I couldn't tell the difference between an Cmod and an Smod. Maybe it's just my ignorance.

Will you confirm for the record that you are not Devore?

Why should he have to? It's up to you to prove any particular allegations.

Your ignorance does indeed show if you think that DeVore is the kind of person who would use a pseudonym to post anonymously on a set of forums which he part-owns and runs.

For the record, forum moderators have final say when it comes to policy enforcement on their own forums. Cmods were introduced to combat cross-forum spamming and generally keep the place running smoothly by being able to ban spammers from entire categories. They can also temporarily take the place of a forum moderator (or act as an additional moderator) if the moderators request such.
There was one major drawback from this - if a Cmod was unavailable, a spammer could run wild. The more usual troublemakers were taking advantage of this and any unchecked forums at the time were heavily hit.
Smods essentially do the same role as Cmods except:
1. They can ban from the entire site.
2. They can clean up crap on any forum.
3. They can answer Help Desk queries
4. They can assist moderators in certain administrative queries/tasks

3 & 4 are made possible by having access to certain extra information.

Like Cmods, Smods generally don't have an input or enforcement rights on the forum charters.

The exception with both is in forums which they specifically moderate. Underneath their little profiley bit on the left, you'll see a list of forums. These are forums on which they act as forum moderators.

Yes, occasionally mods do step on eachother's toes, and the matter is discussed.

Hope that clears up the confusion.

DeVore

I am completely confused.

Firstly, I am not a Mod of politics. I'm one of the admins here. I have no idea who Carnivore is nor why you are arguing with him. He's neither mod nor admin and it seems to be us you have a problem with, but please dont let me stop the handbags at dawn.

I have posted as DeVore from the very first day I logged onto the internet. It was my first ever username on the Maths Dept PGP 11 as a fresher, on TCD Talk, on the IIA Lists, here and lots of other places. I get mail through my letter box addressed to DeVore Murphy.... I am an extremely lazy git and couldnt be arsed setting up a second account let alone posting 200+ posts using it simply to confuse people. By the way, just for the record I'm also a *true* nationalist and I was born in Belfast. I just dont monger hate nor advocate violence in the political process. Ever.

Secondly, when I said we ban people for the way they express their political opinions, let me give you a crude example:

If a person believes that unregulated immigration into this country is going to cause us economic problems in the future, they can reason that out in a well constructed, backed up post. What they can't do is post "all the nigg3rs should go back to nignog-land". Can you see the difference and why one should be banned and one shouldnt?

Now thats an extreme example to illustrate a point but it works for "brits out, tiocfaidh ár la" type posts too.

Again I say, if you have a specific problem you can PM me, start a helpdesk thread or start a thread here. You may get ignored if you are clearly being a muppet or you may get your case held up. However you seem to be having a general whinge which will fall on deaf ears without examples to back it up.

Ultimately its a subjective judgement with the mod's subjective view being the front line one while the admins subjective view is the definitive one.

Just for the record when I give an opinion, it will be my opinion and you'll know because it will be signed:

DeV.

sceptre

Draupnir wrote:

Is that true? Sounds wrong to me

Morally/legally wrong or just plain incorrect?

You own the copyright on everything you write unless you specifically vest it in someone else. Obviously by posting it on a bulletin board you're giving that board the right to publish it or distribute it or merely host it but effectively to retain it but you keep all the book publishing and possible movie rights of every ROFLthehiliarity you knock out. Boards may or may not be part legally liable for what you post (I don't want to discuss that at the moment for obvious reasons and any such discussion is unlikely to remain alive) but they are your words which you own. I'm sure when a Hollywood producer steps in and wants to make a movie or billion dollar mini-series out of my latest posts on the Computers/Technology or Politics boards I'll throw a few quid the way of boards for a server farm and world domination and so forth but that's just because I'm a heck of a nice guy.

Carnivore

Carnivore wrote:

tbh I found it kinda offensive Being told that sceptres personal business is non of my business, as if I suddenly decided to demand from him intimate knowledge as to how he spent his college years. He brought up his time in university, not I.

Theres more attitude and its not necessary.

I've been around along long time con.

So you know my name - big swing.

As I understand it, Cmods and Smods have different roles. A Cmod is equivalent to a forum moderator, however an Smod isn't ment to interfer in the internal working of a forum. To the best of my knowledge the idea behind smod was that they only act when a moderator can't, or when abuse is wide spread accross several forums. There are moderators for this forum.

I'm not privy to the private discussions on the smod board or what instructions the admins have given them or the leeway they have,I can just observe this like any other.I know they do have a function easing the burden in dealing with queries on this board and that they do exactly that free Gratis out of a commitment to here- ERGO a little less attitude from yourself longstanding as you describe yourself would be nice.

One last point, Was it it you believe that I should be banned for having a "bad attitude" where as other users aren't while refering to a complaint as "Bitching and whinging" and calling the complainant a twat. If Smods are going to moderate the feedback forum, the least they could do would be a fair job of it.

I think what I said was along the lines of,...if your attitude in this thread is the first thing an admin see's[upon investigating your post history] when you protest at a perceived[by you] unfair banning on you, then you might get short shrift and deservedly so in my opinion.



As for the original complainant on this thread,I think the fact that I've spent more time on the above tangent than adding to what the other mods of politics have already said in relation to his complaint speaks for itself.I think the complaint is tunnel visioned with no legs.

The other irony is the number of Irish people that read the Sindo ( I wouldnt normally be one of them,I prefer a different brow )-theres a million or more of them,thats a quarter of the population...another section of the Irish that the complainant would be dissing.They have a say too, a pretty substantial say...whatever happened to inclusivity?? :rolleyes:

Endymion

Tristrame wrote:

I think what I said was along the lines of,...if your attitude in this thread is the first thing an admin see's[upon investigating your post history] when you protest at a perceived[by you] unfair banning on you, then you might get short shrift and deservedly so in my opinion.

Yes, Smods contribute allot, that in no way means I'm going to agree with everything they say, or that htey are never wrong. They are users too. I don't think it's an Smods role to ban people on feedback for how they give back feedback and "bad attitude", as such I'm not likely to be happy when toldit is only by one users good graces that I'm not banned.

This is the one forum where there the Admins are highly active wrt moderating. Admins have replied to this thread, one had even been directly insulted, so I'm sorry if threats of being banned ring out as sabre rattling.

Carnivore

Carnivore wrote:

Yes, Smods contribute allot, that in no way means I'm going to agree with everything they say,

You dont have to,so theres no need to be stating the obvious.

They are users too. I don't think it's an Smods role to ban people on feedback for how they give back feedback

Who said that? I said that if you are banned for whatever reason you may get short shrift because of your attitude here.

and "bad attitude", as such I'm not likely to be happy when toldit is only by one users good graces that I'm not banned.

To be frank with you,your attitude is making you see things that arent there.

This is the one forum where there the Admins are highly active wrt moderating. Admins have replied to this thread, one had even been directly insulted, so I'm sorry if threats of being banned ring out as sabre rattling.

I dont see any threat to ban you,I see simple facts being pointed out to you as reiterated again in this post.

Draupnir

sceptre wrote:

Morally/legally wrong or just plain incorrect?

You own the copyright on everything you write unless you specifically vest it in someone else. Obviously by posting it on a bulletin board you're giving that board the right to publish it or distribute it or merely host it but effectively to retain it but you keep all the book publishing and possible movie rights of every ROFLthehiliarity you knock out. Boards may or may not be part legally liable for what you post (I don't want to discuss that at the moment for obvious reasons and any such discussion is unlikely to remain alive) but they are your words which you own. I'm sure when a Hollywood producer steps in and wants to make a movie or billion dollar mini-series out of my latest posts on the Computers/Technology or Politics boards I'll throw a few quid the way of boards for a server farm and world domination and so forth but that's just because I'm a heck of a nice guy.

It just seemed legally wrong but having thought about it, the Copyright would in fact belong to the registered user and the username rather than the actually person correct?

For example, I am registered on boards.ie with my real name and real details so I do infact, own the copyright to my posts.

But if I registered as Bill Bixby, No.1 Skid Row, then the copyright would be kind of invalidated since it would belong to a fictional character with no provable tie to me?

But, since I am registered correctly, I assume the copyright works a lot like mailing song lyrics to myself by registered post or similar.

Endymion

Tristrame wrote:

I said that if you are banned for whatever reason you may get short shrift because of your attitude here.

If I was banned, assuming I would complain, the complaint would be more to do with the fact that I'm breaking no rule which is common to all of boards, but rather i May be break a couple which are not only arbitary in which forums they apply to, but also the punishment they merit. Having a bad attitude and being Un civil on the feedback forum has never* earned anyone a ban from this forum.

To be frank with you,your attitude is making you see things that arent there.
I dont see any threat to ban you,

Well if I miss took spectres posts, I apologise, but I take being informed that I'm "Ban worthy" at face value, rather then a hypotechtical "If I was a moderator of this forum, and if this forum operated under different 'guidelines' I'd consider you ban worthy".

I see simple facts being pointed out to you as reiterated again in this post.

I see only opinions, not facts. It is my opinion, based on the knowledge I have, That the primary role of Smods are to assit the admins in enforcing rules which apply uniformly accross all forums. You disagree, but all you have is your opinion too.

We could sit here all day and say, I think this and I think that, but it's rather pointless. Admins aren't in the business of giving definites about things like this to users like moi.

Dudess

Aw, Carnivore! You seem like such a lovely person - Boards' very own little ray of sunshine!

Endymion

Thanks Dudess, you're kinda special yourself

Stephen

This thread hurts my head

mike65

This is the Qustions and Answers of feedback threads. Con is John Bowman.

Mike.

DublinWriter

mike65 wrote:

This is the Qustions and Answers of feedback threads. Con is John Bowman.

Can I be the ranting audience member reading from a crumpled sheet of handwritten A4 that makes John Bowman ever so slightly nervous and who keeps interupting the panelist while he/she tries to answer my question?

oscarBravo

DublinWriter wrote:

Can I be the ranting audience member reading from a crumpled sheet of handwritten A4 that makes John Bowman ever so slightly nervous and who keeps interupting the panelist while he/she tries to answer my question?

I can't think of anyone better qualified.

Stephen

Stephen wrote:

This thread hurts my head

Ach,me and carnivore kissed and made up in private

There always is a happy ending.

gandalf

Hope you didn't slip the tongue !!!!