New assault rifle for US spec ops

Dub13

The US spec ops new assault rifle. Its the F.N. Herstal Scar (belgian)



The M4A1 and Mk11 and M14 will be replaced.




Following the final design review of SOF Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR), FNH is completing the final phase of development and is preparing for serial production of the new weapon. After a series of design reviews and testing with United States Special Operation Command (USSOCOM) and Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) the SCAR is ready for low-rate initial production. Delivery of first 1,000 out of the total 85,000 rifles included under teh SOCOM contract are scheduled to be delivered by January 2007. The SCAR will be built at the FN Manufacturing LLC, plant in Columbia, South Carolina.

babybundy

looks nice any specs on it

Dub13

Another pic

Dub13

babybundy wrote:

looks nice any specs on it

SCAR L is a 5.56 mm assault rifle, which will be replacing the M4A1, Close Quarters Battle Rifle (CQBR) and Mk12 currently in SOCOM service. SCAR H, a 7.62mm assault rifle, will replace the M14 and Mk11 sniper rifles. Both variants share 90% commonality and will have a choice of three barrel lengths, allowing operators to tailor the weapon for specific operations, using a "standard", Close Quarters Combat (CQC), or "sniper" barrels. These changes will affect the velocity and directly relate to lethality. The EGLM is a 40mm grenade launcher with a side-opening breech to allow loading longer munitions, and has target ranging and ballistic solution for enhanced fire control.

the locust

Yeah looks savage! Great versatility for SF needs.
I heard the SCAR H has a battlefield pickup mag system meaning the user can grab AK magazines off the battlefield if they need to and slap them in and they will work fine.
Only thing is it doesn't have mounts for a bayonet and i don't think there are any plans for them to have them

the locust

Yeah looks savage! Great versatility for SF needs.
I heard the SCAR H has a battlefield pickup mag system meaning the user can grab AK magazines off the battlefield if they need to and slap them in and they will work fine.
Only thing is it doesn't have mounts for a bayonet and i don't think there are any plans for them to have them

CJhaughey

the locust wrote:

I heard the SCAR H has a battlefield pickup mag system meaning the user can grab AK magazines off the battlefield if they need to and slap them in and they will work fine.

How exactly does this work? The rifle may be 7.62 calibre the same as an AK47 but the case length is different 51 vs 39 this would not be feasible unless you had an alternative chamber for the shorter round, doesn't make sense to me?

triskell

CJhaughey wrote:

How exactly does this work? The rifle may be 7.62 calibre the same as an AK47 but the case length is different 51 vs 39 this would not be feasible unless you had an alternative chamber for the shorter round, doesn't make sense to me?

It don't make an sense to me either even the ak74 round is not compatable with 223 in m4, there completky different cartridges
this sounds like something out of socom playstation game

bk

the locust wrote:

I heard the SCAR H has a battlefield pickup mag system meaning the user can grab AK magazines off the battlefield if they need to and slap them in and they will work fine.
Only thing is it doesn't have mounts for a bayonet and i don't think there are any plans for them to have them

No, some SCAR H (relatively small amount) will be chambered for 39 instead of 51, but they are not interchangeable.

BTW supposedly the SCAR is already coming under serious competition from the HK M416/417, which is already being used by SF units in Iraq and supposedly they love it and it has the advantage of high parts commonality with the M4 as it is only an upper receiver replacement for the M4.

It'll be very interesting how these two weapons systems shake out as it may have a big impact on what weapon the main Army and Marine forces settle on for general rifle going forward.

cushtac

CJhaughey wrote:

How exactly does this work?

It's meant to have a modular barrel arrangement that allows the user to swap it without having to adjust the headspace or timing.

armchairninja

Most of you have probably lready come across this page, but i thought id post it up just incase, and its a great site anyway:

It should clear up any discrepencies in calibres etc.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm

CJhaughey

Is this a a tacit admission that 5.56 Nato is not good enough? The readoption of the 7.62 Nato would seem to suggest that to me.

Dooom

Would it not be more the case that 5.56 isn't powerful enough when used in conjunction with a sniper variant of the weapon? I mean, 7.62 has a fairly heftier range and lethality rate than 5.56, and that's what'd be more important in sniper modules I'd have thought.

Just my 2c btw.

the locust

Yeah so they have SCAR Light and SCAR Heavies...
And three variants of each? Wow... nice options.

On the range a 5.56 round will hit a metal target with a 'tink' and the target will fall over, 7.62 however will pick up the target and kick it three or four metres back. Obviously better stopping power. Many guys in the Iraq conflict - that have engaged enemy, have repeatedly mentioned it taking up to 6 or even 7 - 8 rounds of 5.56 to put a guy down even at close range. Not so with 7.62...
So i can see that SCAR-H the CQB one being a fave for urban warfare / house to house

the locust

But i'm sure the SCAR H's kick like hell!!

TempestSabre

the locust wrote:

...7.62 however will pick up the target and kick it three or four metres back. ...

At least in the movies. Didn't myth buster try that with all sorts of stuff including 0.5 and couldn't replicate it.

armchairninja

The reason it wouldnt work is because as newton said
"for every action there must be an equal or opposite reaction", so in theory, for a target or person to fly 3/4 metres back, you too would have to fly 3/4 metres back in the opposite reaction

Morpheus

No-one would fly back 3 or 4 metres and as for a metal target?

The round either passes through it or lodges in it and knocks it over, what kind of a range are you talking about that it has metal targets that arent held in place and fly 3 or 4 feet back when hit by rounds?

waste of time, sure youd have to go round picking up and resetting the targets each time you shoot. maybe a tin can or paint tin would fly back.

speaking from experience we use wooden frame targets in irish army and its only thin pieces of wood and 7.62 and 5.56 both punch clean through the wood without carving great big holes in it like the movies, a couple of splinters will fly off the frames when they are hit but nothing major, the hole left by both rounds is about the diameter of a bic biro.

obviously with more resistence such as in metal, then the round expends more energy causing larger damage such as peeling some of the metals surface away, embedding itself into the face of the metal or punching through it knocking it over if unsupported & this metal plate is only the size of a corflakes packet and about quarter inch in width, it most certainly does not fly back a couple of feet even with 7.62 from a GPMG.

Lets get morbid....

7.62 GPMG (FN-MAG) roughly 750 rounds per minute, belt fed weapon.

If someone (unprotected) is facing the weapon and gets hit repeatedly by 7.62 they will most likely suffer massive traumatic wounds, partial amputation injuries, and they may stagger backwards briefly, but they wont be picked up by the round and hurled backwards. They will probably crumple over and fall where they were standing. The reason is that the rounds will most likely pass through the unfortunate individual.

Even if the round hits bone and disintegrates it will probably continue on in roughly the direction it was travelling and exit from a number of places in their back, this is why the entry wound is usually quite small and the exit wound much larger.

If protected by armour they may again stagger backwards as the round expends its energy on their vest but they wont be thrown james bond style through the air!!

babybundy

TempestSabre wrote:

At least in the movies. Didn't myth buster try that with all sorts of stuff including 0.5 and couldn't replicate it.

mythbusters did that test wrong the supported the pig from the top it will give a different result to someone standing up and its got to do with dead weight

TempestSabre

It may be flawed. But I've never seen any live fire test throw a target back any significant distance. Even those with Barrett rifles on various solid targets. Admittedly I know nothing about it though so I'm open minded enough if you can prove otherwise.

AbusesToilets

The best caliber i've seen discussed in various magazines recently would seem to be the 6.8mm round which was brought into service by US SOF teams.In one of the articles i read they ran a comparision test between 5.56,7.62 and 6.8; with the 6.8 coming out ahead in accuracy and knock down power. And given the loads most soldiers are burdened with nowadays a return to 7.62 would not be that welcomed if it could be replaced by a lighter more versatile caliber

coyote6

My sources say the HK 416/417's have a really good shot at becoming "the rifle" (at least for now) I am impressed with the SCAR though and I don't think the fight is over. Colt's has designed a piston M16 as well. The caliber fight is also not over. I've heard rumors of a .45 caliber rifle round being fiddled with at Crane!

I've never seen any bullet toss anyone back except in the movies. Depending on shot placement (i.e. .308 versus head) the person usually drops straight down (control center failure beats hydraulic failure every time).

elvis jaffacake

aren't the WING, supposed to be getting HK416/417's?

Clare gunner

It might just go to HK as they are in the lead again with a new .45ACP pistol for the US army.Yes,they are going back to the 45.But as usual these things will be decided on the cocktail and 18th hole circut in DC.Not by any combat eveluation reports or whatever.I mean what would common ground pounders know?:rolleyes:
Also remember Murphys law of combat.
Your weapon has been made by the cheapest bidder.:rolleyes:

cushtac

elvis jaffacake wrote:

aren't the WING, supposed to be getting HK416/417's?

Supposedly.

coyote6

Clare gunner wrote:

It might just go to HK as they are in the lead again with a new .45ACP pistol for the US army.Yes,they are going back to the 45.But as usual these things will be decided on the cocktail and 18th hole circut in DC.Not by any combat eveluation reports or whatever.I mean what would common ground pounders know?:rolleyes:
Also remember Murphys law of combat.
Your weapon has been made by the cheapest bidder.:rolleyes:

CG I am now officially depressed. How true these words are... you ask for bullets and they give you a banana. I think the groundpounders would be using a very evolved M-14 if they had the say.

I think they're callin' the pistol the HK 45. The .45 rifle round is a new thing being talked about and is not .45 ACP. I'm thinkin' it's more like a .50 beowulf type thing necked down perhaps. You heard anything about it CG?

Manic Moran

The order for something like a half-million .45s has dropped back down to somewhere near 30,000. The 9mm will soldier on for quite a few more years in the US Army. My guess, some old-timers (Colonels, Generals, First Sergeants, Sergeants Majors) who are about in the right position to have some say are all saying the old way was the best. Compare with the amount of old-timers in Ireland that long maintained that the 7.62mm FAL was a better weapon/round than the 5.56mm AUG.

Granted, there is that American philosophy that the only real calibre must begin with a '4'. (357 Magnum notwithstanding)

NTM

Clare gunner

[I think they're callin' the pistol the HK 45. The .45 rifle round is a new thing being talked about and is not .45 ACP. I'm thinkin' it's more like a .50 beowulf type thing necked down perhaps. You heard anything about it CG?

Read a report on it in a German mag,it was written by Ken Hackathorn,who had a hand in design and works/advises for HK in the HK45.No,it is a good old .45ACP.It looks like quite a piece.But I dunno why they botherd,there is a HKUSP tactical already in 45ACP,which is a handier version of the HK Socom.Why not just issue that?

cushtac

Clare gunner wrote:

But I dunno why they botherd,there is a HKUSP tactical already in 45ACP,which is a handier version of the HK Socom.Why not just issue that?

Because people keep trying to reinvent the wheel with their own stamp on it.

AbusesToilets

I've read that the US Secret Service has started adopting FN 5.7 as their sidearms,along with the P-90.Anyone have any experience with that?

TempestSabre

AbusesToilets wrote:

I've read that the US Secret Service has started adopting FN 5.7 as their sidearms,along with the P-90.Anyone have any experience with that?

Any Secret Service agents on the boards? :cool: