Ireland's biggest secret?!!

namaimo

Ok will someone please tell me what they're putting in the site where the sorting office used to be?! Those signs all around it are are driving me mad!!

Tree

a very very tall building w/ apartments and offices, the height on it was halved or summat during the planning permission problems, gonna be the tallest building in the city cnetre still.

those signs piss me off every single day, teh ppl on them look like idiots

Blitzkrieger

You couldn't tell it was going to be apartments from the cringeworthy advertising around it?

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

namaimo wrote:

Ok will someone please tell me what they're putting in the site where the sorting office used to be?! Those signs all around it are are driving me mad!!

you must be the only person who doesnt know...
the tallest building in Ireland.

7mountpleasant

the biggest secret in Ireland had a half page spread with pictures in todays examiner

Froot

yora ma!

Tree

someone stuck some writing about the end of each panel, didnt care enough to note what it said but i think there may be a webby addy there

opus

This apartment block. Fairly pretension name I must say!

Judes

Aaaagghh, when driving this morning I noticed that the billboards - before you drive by that "site" have those stupid pics too. I suppose they'll soon have them on the County Boundaries. And all for another big glassy building with apartments and retail outlets.

I had a look on their website, kindly supplied above by Opus. What a load of old twoddle. If they're trying to show off Cork as the place to be (which of course we know, it is) they really have to put in some more pics. I mean a picture of Opera House and City Hall represents "Culture" - maybe I didn't delve enough into site. And as for the "beautiful people" sitting in the bar, eeek, it's too much when you're trying to digest your breakfast.

I did notice that they display everything on the website accept the "PRICE"! J

trixter

Judes wrote:

I did notice that they display everything on the website accept the "PRICE"! J

That is not terribly suprising, given that they first want to creat a buzz about the place, so that people are all interested, and over time they want people to want to live there more and more which creates demand.

The other aspect is that they said it wouldnt be done until mid 2008. Given that its 2 years off, who can say what prices will be like. They may have construction costs go over budget, or whatever, they may have delays and other stuff, the builders may go bankrupt and someone buys it out and charges a different rate. But not posting it they keep themselves open.

I would however expect pricing next year, as it gets a little closer to actually selling, along with 'pre sales' happening of the units. I am unsure if its 100% letting or not even at this stage, although it appears to be rentals to me.

1-4 br, and they are already advertising penthouses on the top floor (presumably with balconies, perhaps quite large ones) so I would imagine that the smallest cheapest will be about 1000 EUR or somewhere in that range, and just go up from there

I also bet that they will have all the units moved within a month of opening.

I lived in a multi-story building in los angeles once, it was similar size, it had 4 2 br and 4 1 br on each floor, doing the math assuming that it would be roughly the same (odds are it isnt cause the units where I was were quite large, the living room was bigger than most apartments here) but lets just pretend for a minute, that puts 204 bedrooms in that building. My guess is that the real number will be much closer to 300 though. Given that there are couples, families, and the occasional single person, you are looking at close to 500 people in that building. Of course these are totally uninformed guesses, but I think they will turn out to be close to accurate.

Now, at 500 EUR/person dumped into the local economy (food, night life, clothes, etc all presumably bought from local shops) that is roughly 250.000 EUR/month from that building. Even if the people are locals there are people that are less local that will move into the places those people used to live in, and so there will be some increase, however it may not be as profound, it will still be up there a bit.

This means of course more jobs, and as the demand for workers gets higher (ie there arent enough workers for the number of jobs) that causes the base wage to increase just so businesses can attract people. This in turn attracts more people to commute to work, which they will also spend more in the local economy, and so on and so forth. This also creates more demand for local *affordable* housing (since presumably almost all the new jobs will be lower income jobs and not CEO type jobs) and someone somewhere will realize they can make money by building that, which attracts even more people, until inflation causes the prices of all goods and services to be unaffordable, and everyone leaves.

The life cycle of the economy :P

But that is just how I see it, I have lived here for about 2 weeks, what do I know? Further do you really want to trust the words of some ranting lunatic off the intarweb?

Judes

I totally understand what you are saying - the unfortunate thing is that it isn't quite working to plan. There are quite a few of these new "exciting/out of this world, living experience" blocks going up - but if you drive through the city and suburbs you will notice that a lot of the retail outlets are empty.

The supposed restaurants/bars etc. that people moving in assume will be there, as part of this wonderful new lifestyle being promoted, just aren't there!!! I wouldn't want to walk around half of these areas by day, let alone by night. I just feel that it's false advertising. It's a bit unfair to those enticed into moving into an area that hasn't been developed yet. It's also unfair for those already in the area, who are being inconvenienced with highrise blocks, more cars, busier roads and the dangled carrot of wonderful new shops/bars/ restaurants/ that aren't there!!!

It's just all so "80's - London Yuppy" - and I like to think that Cork people are cooler than that. Maybe the people in the Marketing Department should do a bit more Cork city living, to get a feel of what really would be an exciting new "living experience". And pull down those stupid billboard posters. There's no secret, everyone knows "apartments" are being built.

Hey Trixter - "welcome to Cork!!!" it really is a cooler place than they are making it out to be! J

trixter

Judes wrote:

I totally understand what you are saying - the unfortunate thing is that it isn't quite working to plan. There are quite a few of these new "exciting/out of this world, living experience" blocks going up - but if you drive through the city and suburbs you will notice that a lot of the retail outlets are empty.

Well anyone with a bit of drive, and a little bit of savings (or access to money even if its loaned) can set up shop in those areas and if they provide a good service at a fair price odds are will get some business. With a properly executed business plan they might actually do quite well. That of course depends on whether the people moving into those new places can actually afford anything after paying rent :P

I dont think its entirely the developers responsibility to ensure infrastructure is in place before people move in, and its a chicken and egg situation anyway. Certainly the planning board needs to ensure that there will be roads (where I am from they built the roads AFTER everyone moved in, which means closing parts of it when there are higher traffic volumes and all that ...). But once that is done, there is the ability for stores to move in and occupy some of the near by buildings, providing people will/can actually shop there.

Of course most families are dual income now, which means that they arent home during the day to shop. This means that the types of shops that go into that area need to keep this in mind, a trinket shop open 9-5 probably wont do well, but a local grocer, perhaps a service station, restaurants/pubs and other 'service' type things that cater to working people (dry cleaners etc) might do well.

If they are in student areas then you might have people home during the day but how many students spend their money on trinkets? :P Know your demographic!

I think it would actually be unwise for businesses to move in before the people do. A developer has costs to build something, that is known and 'part of the business' but a retail outlet really cant afford to open shop before there are people, if they do they end up having really high costs and people will just go elsewhere. So the retail places have to wait until there is a sufficient amount of people in the local area that are demographically suited (lifestyle, income levels, age, etc) to actually be successful, unless they can eat 12-18 months of rent and other expenses before seeing any income at all (and even then it generally takes 3-5 years to become profitable in a good business plan this just adds to that).


I dont know about here but in America 10 out of 11 businesses go under in the first 4 years of operation, largely due to undercapitalization (in service industries like restaurants) or delay to market (with product based companies, where the market demand changed before they could get a product on the shelves). Given that its a risk no matter what, however adding a 'dead zone' to the begining makes it nearly impossible for anyone to justify it.

If you get the people in the area shop keepers will come, as there will be profit in it. It may only be the larger chains (at least at first) because they can asorb the initial market building costs, but eventually the small ones will be there to compete too. And that is where the bigger chains help the little guy (right before they put them out of business that is) they can go into an area and build its market base up and create a demand for more stores. They can create the culture that allows the little guy to even get a loan for a store in that area.

Bleh I really do hate the business of business, I am a tech guy and like to play more than do business stuff.

Judes wrote:

Hey Trixter - "welcome to Cork!!!" it really is a cooler place than they are making it out to be! J

Thanks

Judes

I do a lot of canvassing with a Political Party and one of the biggest issues everyone wants to discuss is Infrastructure and the fact that Developers should take on more responsibility. They put up pretty houses/apartments etc. but at times the first estate/apartment block isn't properly completed to specification when they're on to building the next. Example - snagging lists in new property, grounds not laid out/planted, roads are more like dirt trails, or congested, as there is suddenly twice as much traffic, vacant shop units etc. It leaves people very frustrated. So the Local Council/Developers/Planners must take on more responsibility. This issue was raised a while back on the Matt Cooper Show, (Today FM late afternoon). Residents in new developments really feel like they've pulled the short straw.

But we'll move on from this one, we could go on forever. And the original moan was about the "eeek appeal" of Elysian's marketing campaign. It will be really interesting to see the finished product. I just hope this great flagship doesn't hit any icebergs! J

trixter

Judes wrote:

I do a lot of canvassing with a Political Party and one of the biggest issues everyone wants to discuss is Infrastructure and the fact that Developers should take on more responsibility. They put up pretty houses/apartments etc. but at times the first estate/apartment block isn't properly completed to specification when they're on to building the next. Example - snagging lists in new property, grounds not laid out/planted, roads are more like dirt trails, or congested, as there is suddenly twice as much traffic, vacant shop units etc. It leaves people very frustrated. So the Local Council/Developers/Planners must take on more responsibility. This issue was raised a while back on the Matt Cooper Show, (Today FM late afternoon). Residents in new developments really feel like they've pulled the short straw.

I think that the planning boards can easily put contingencies on the developers that they must either pay for or privately do some of the infrastructure as part of being able to do the buildings. What I mean by that are roads and what not. I think that is fair, if someone wants to come in and build something, they are in a perfect position to approve/deny the building.

I know in some areas they dont want to beef up the roads because the big trucks that are part of the construction effort can tear them up, so its kinda a waste to do it first, however it can still be part of the whole plan, and a contingency for approval of the permits to build.

The developers then go into everything knowing what is required, and can make a business decision if they can recoup their costs on the building project after knowing they will also have to pay for roads and whatnot. If they decide they cant, they wont build, no additional traffic, if they think they can then its all taken care of. It doesnt have to be one or the other taking on the responsibility, but rather both of them together can accomplish this task, and at a cost far less to tax payers

Infrastructure by itself is a big thing, that includes adequate food stores, and other businesses, something you cannot force people to open. I also think any attempt to force people to open stores in a given area would be totally wrong. However if there is money to be made, someone somewhere will stand up and happily make money, thus the stores will come.

the clansman

i hate all these new ****ing buildings by the docks. i love the old warehouses around there...they give the city a nice old and slightly relaxed feel...those modern developmentsmake the place like america...you cant relax in those ultra modern areas...they remind me too much of money and greed and anything but corks culture. its what the government call "progress" the developers are all bribeing the government and they can do what ever they like

Judes wrote:

I do a lot of canvassing with a Political Party and one of the biggest issues everyone wants to discuss is Infrastructure and the fact that Developers should take on more responsibility. They put up pretty houses/apartments etc. but at times the first estate/apartment block isn't properly completed to specification when they're on to building the next. Example - snagging lists in new property, grounds not laid out/planted, roads are more like dirt trails, or congested, as there is suddenly twice as much traffic, vacant shop units etc. It leaves people very frustrated. So the Local Council/Developers/Planners must take on more responsibility. This issue was raised a while back on the Matt Cooper Show, (Today FM late afternoon). Residents in new developments really feel like they've pulled the short straw

the developers are all bribeing the government and they can do what ever they like. we'ev seen bertie spent his summer opening hotels and stuf these guys are building. the basterds dont finish the job. houseing estates with nothing for kids to do in them ie playground or pitch or something. the residents have to do that. this contributes to crime caused by youths because they got nothing to do. the roads, they dont take responsibility for either, and generaly they dont provide any services. its hapening all over the country