Rifle jam on Range

RyderCup

Could anyone tell me - if you're on a range, your rifle (.22) fails to fire, and the round is stuck in the breech - what should you do?

Mech1

Keep rifle pointed up-range!!!

RyderCup

OK, thanks I know that but what then.....

Mech1

Bolt action or semi?

RyderCup

Semi.

Mech1

After letting a little time go bye, Drop mag, recock and try firing again.

RyderCup

Did exactly that - no cigar.

Then what. Note; I am not a gunsmith.

hillybilly

Mech1 wrote:

After letting a little time go bye, Drop mag, recock and try firing again.

Did you bring it to the range officer's attention??


You do not try a manouvre like that unless the range officer is breathing down your neck.

RyderCup

A range officer, in Courtlough, whats that?

Umiq88

.22 semi's jam the whole time i dont know range "manners" or whats required but why not just open it (after waiting the cautionary 30 secs :rolleyes: ) and then unjam it by however and continue on.

Some people will probably frown on this and tell you to bring it to a quailified person or some such but its common sense really. To avoid jamming on a semi clean vigorously!

maglite

just out of curiosity what will a round that goes off on an uncontroled inviroment do(not in gun)

what sort of force is there

RyderCup

psittacosis wrote:

.22 semi's jam the whole time i dont know range "manners" or whats required but why not just open it (after waiting the cautionary 30 secs :rolleyes: ) and then unjam it by however and continue on.

Some people will probably frown on this and tell you to bring it to a quailified person or some such but its common sense really. To avoid jamming on a semi clean vigorously!

I'm only after getting my rifle back from my gunsmith. It got a full strip and cleaning and I clean it every time I shoot with it. Today before I started shooting I applied a very light spray of gun oil to it.

When you say "open it" how do you mean. Its not a shotgun - you cant break it. If it was a bolt action it might be simpler to open but not a semi.

RyderCup

Maglite, I believe that a round that goes off when it is in a completely uncontrolled environment will do very little.

This wasn't the case here though as the slide had damaged the shell and it was stuck in the breech so I reckon if it had gone off the shell would have been forced back against the breech block with some velocity.

Sparks

Generally the rule is Call the Range Officer.

What the RO usually does is to wait for ten seconds or so; recock the mechanism and try firing again; if that doesn't work, try removing the round from the breech; if the round is stuck, insert a cleaning rod down the barrel to about an inch from the round, then (with the breech open, the fingers well clear and the rifle held vertically) drop it the last inch onto the round. Mind you, in ten years ROing for DURC, I never saw a case get so bad that it got to the cleaning rod stage, not with .22s anyway. 99% of the time, recocking and firing works.

First rule though - call the Range Officer.

Sparks

maglite wrote:

just out of curiosity what will a round that goes off on an uncontroled inviroment do(not in gun)
what sort of force is there

Less than you'd imagine, though personally I wouldn't care to be standing around anyway (but I worry a lot ). Without the confinement of the chamber and barrel, the bullet doesn't get much in the way of acceleration.

Clare gunner

a 22 going off outside a gun will make an impressive SNAP! not much else.There was an article in G&A years ago about "cookoffs" with 22 ammo.
A guy managed to detonate one in his down jacket ,by putting accidently a battery pack on top of a hidden and forgotten round in his pocket.All it did was go off and rip a hole in his chest pocket and rip into the fleece..
It needs a contained chamber to cause damage.So I would say if it is jammed in the barrel of a semi 22.Pick it out with a screw driver without hitting too much on the rim,and the gun unloaded and pointed down range,while wearing eye protection.Get the dud round into some oil /brake fluid,to inert it,or whatever the policy is on the range for handling dud rounds.

RyderCup

Sparks wrote:

Generally the rule is Call the Range Officer.

What the RO usually does is to wait for ten seconds or so; recock the mechanism and try firing again; if that doesn't work, try removing the round from the breech; if the round is stuck, insert a cleaning rod down the barrel to about an inch from the round, then (with the breech open, the fingers well clear and the rifle held vertically) drop it the last inch onto the round. Mind you, in ten years ROing for DURC, I never saw a case get so bad that it got to the cleaning rod stage, not with .22s anyway. 99% of the time, recocking and firing works.

First rule though - call the Range Officer.

I'm glad you clarified that Sparks. I have been shooting for quite a few years now and whether your in the FCA or on a rifle or pistol range I have always been told to keep the gun pointed down the range and raise your free hand to alert the range officer that you have a problem.

I was in Courtlough Shooting grounds today. At about 6.02pm with 3 rounds left to fire, I got the jam which I am referring to above. There was nobody else on the rifle range. I recocked and tried again and two more times but to no avail so I let it settle for about 3 minutes. I took the mobile out of my shooting bag and phoned the Clubhouse. I told the staff member that I was on the rifle range and had a round stuck in the breech which hadn't gone off and the reply I got was as follows:

Staff member: Sighs.....Jaysus...... have you not got something sharp to poke it out with like a key or something.

Me: I have a penknife - is it safe to do that.

Staff member: Yeah and get down here soon as you can we were meant to close at 6.


Fantastic.

Umiq88

yeah sorry meant recock and pry it out

if your getting alot of jams it could be if your using subsonic ammo which mightnt have enough power to push the bolt back otherwise try different ammo with a 22 you've plenty of stuff to test and play around with

Dvs

Mech1 wrote:

Keep rifle pointed up-range!!!

I think you mean Downrange!

Dvs.

rrpc

When you get a misfire in a .22, it usually means that there is no primer in the spot that the firing pin struck. This happens because the primer did not go completely around the rim when the round was manufactured. In some rare cases there is no primer at all.

With a bolt action rifle, lifting the bolt and withdrawing the round partially, then closing the bolt again usually turns the round in the breech so that the firing pin wil strike the rim in a different position where presumably there is some primer.

With semis, the problem is that the bolt/action does not withdraw the round, the recoil does that job, which leaves the problem of how to withdraw the dud. Sparks method with the cleaning rod will work, although it means you are working at the business end of the barrel (The thoughts of your cleaning rod coming back out at speed followed by an angry piece of lead would give me pause). You could also try to turn the round in the breech with a screwdriver or penknife, assuming that it is not too tight in the breech. There should be no real danger in this, as it takes quite an impact to fire the round, and it is still in the breech: though you should wear eye protection.

This is one of the reasons that I dislike semis, as misfires can happen quite regularly due to insufficient recoil from some rounds; leaving you with exactly the problem RyderCup describes.

Sparks

Sparks method with the cleaning rod will work, although it means you are working at the business end of the barrel (The thoughts of your cleaning rod coming back out at speed followed by an angry piece of lead would give me pause).

You and me both, but there's logic to it. There's only so much energy in a .22 cartridge, and with the breech opened, most of that won't go down the barrel; and even then the cleaning rod weighs so much more than the bullet that I wouldn't expect it to come back like a mortar round if the cartridge somehow goes off in the process. As well, you're holding the rod from the side rather than being silly enough to let your hand get in the line of the barrel.

The notion of using a screwdriver or penknife on the rim of a dodgy rimfire cartridge (you're right, properly made ones would survive this fairly easily) would worry me quite a bit more, to be honest, because you, your fingers and your face will all be much closer to the cartridge. Frankly, given all the fullbore world's horror stories of lost fingers and worse, this is one of those times when I think paranoia is a healthy response!

Umiq88

surely you can just pull back the bolt in a semi with the handle and then dislodge the round

Sparks

Usually psitta; but then how do you best (ie, what's the safest way) dislodge the round?

rrpc

psittacosis wrote:

surely you can just pull back the bolt in a semi with the handle and then dislodge the round

No, you can't, the bolt (action) in a semi doesn't withdraw the empty case as in a bolt action, it's the recoil that both ejects the case and reciprocates the action.

That's why I don't like them.

As for Sparks suggestion that you can set a round off with a screwdriver or a penknife, have you ever tried? The bolt ejection mechanism has a much firmer hold on the case than you could ever have with said tools.

oldzed

of course you can cycle the action on a semi automatic and extract the round, the 10/22 has a single extractor claw on the right hand side of the bolt which pulls the case back and it ejects to the right after the case hits the extractor post,occasionally you will get a failure to extract on a 1022 usually when they are dirty and this can usually be remedied by simply re racking the slide , if its still stuck lever it out with a knife or rod it out . a properly cleaned 1022 is no more likely to fail to eject than a bolt action rifle, I dont get failures in my 1022 untill 600/700 rounds have gone through it, with some custom barrels you cannot get a standard extractor to withdraw an unfired round ( its no big deal just fire the round ) but if you replace the extractor and spring with a titanium one from the like of volquartsen you will hardly ever see an extraction problem. semis are not unreliable people just dont clean them right and that has lead to an unwarranted reputation.

long live the 1022


zed:)

Vegeta

rrpc wrote:

No, you can't, the bolt (action) in a semi doesn't withdraw the empty case as in a bolt action, it's the recoil that both ejects the case and reciprocates the action.
.

If what you're asying is true (and i don't think it is) how do you extract a round that is put in the barrel but not fired?????

RyderCup

oldzed wrote:

semis are not unreliable people just dont clean them right and that has lead to an unwarranted reputation.

Ahem, ahem...

RyderCup wrote:

I'm only after getting my rifle back from my gunsmith. It got a full strip and cleaning and I clean it every time I shoot with it. Today before I started shooting I applied a very light spray of gun oil to it.

My semi does not eject when you re-cock and I'd be surprised if many do seeing as the recoil takes care of ejection. I also happened to have a penknife with me which had around 7 different blades and I still couldn't get it out. There's only so much poking that a sane person will do at a bullet that has already been struck 3 times, unless they want their head examined or blown off (ok ok I know it was only a .22 but I'm a bit of a dramatic).

In the end I did the cleaning rod thing on it (nervously). Had I not had the cleaning kit with me, I would still be there as the gentleman who answered the phone in the clubhouse had no intention of helping out.

My point, believe it or not, was that I think it stinks to high heaven to be told to sort it out yourself when those very committed people in Courtlough are happy to take your money.

I'm voting with my feet.

Dvs

RyderCup wrote:

In the end I did the cleaning rod thing on it (nervously). Had I not had the cleaning kit with me, I would still be there as the gentleman who answered the phone in the clubhouse had no intention of helping out.

My point, believe it or not, was that I think it stinks to high heaven to be told to sort it out yourself when those very committed people in Courtlough are happy to take your money.

I'm voting with my feet.

I understand what you are saying,
but I don't see your point, as I would be of the opinion,
that you should be able to sort out a problem such as this on your own.

What if you were a hunter, out and about ?
Nobody else would be there to sort it out for you...........

On this occasion you did sort it out yourself,
and learned something!
you should take some pride in that,
not feel, as you seem to be saying,
short changed by the people at courtlough,
for not doing it for you.

Some might say it was a safety issue,
that needed to be dealt with by an official,
far to much delegating of safety issues take place,
Range safety in relation to you and your firearm,
should rest, first and foremost with you.

Just my 2 cents €uro,
Dvs.

civdef

as I would be of the opinion,
that you should be able to sort out a problem such as this on your own.

Damn straight. A safe shooter shouldn't need assistance to clear a simple jam.

Sparks

Dvs wrote:

Some might say it was a safety issue,
that needed to be dealt with by an official,
far to much delegating of safety issues take place,
Range safety in relation to you and your firearm,
should rest, first and foremost with you.

Without disagreeing with the last two stanzas there DvS, I have to say that saying that "far to much delegating of safety issues take place" (sic) is really only something you could say if (s)he knew what they were doing in the first place, in which case odds are this thread wouldn't have been started at all.

Sparks

civdef wrote:

Damn straight. A safe shooter shouldn't need assistance to clear a simple jam.

Have to disagree with you there, because someone can be safe to shoot in a particular environment but not trained in every detail of how to handle their firearm. For example, in DURC we get students coming in for a half-hour a week who've never used a rifle before. We could insist on training them for weeks but we'd lose a good two-thirds or more of our members. Instead, we train them on the basics and leave them shoot with an RO monitoring them. So on the first day, they don't load, they aim off rests, and the RO takes care of everything else. Over the next few weeks, they get shown how to use the sling, to aim, to load, to carry the rifle, and so on - one thing at a time. So by the end of the few weeks, they're fairly well trained to do the things you do for 999 shots out of 1000. For that 1 in 1000 shot, they're trained to call the Range Officer to fix the problem.

That's perfectly safe - but it's not fully trained. We don't have enough range time to run them through everything. Those who stay about for more than a few weeks (and if you think your range has a problem with tyre-kickers, you should work in a college range for a while to disabuse you of that notion) get taught more, and within a year or two the ones who take it in wind up knowing enough that there's little they can't handle on their own. The point is, though, that they're perfecly safe all through that time, because they're trained to call the RO the moment something deviates from normal. Frankly, it's the ones who think they know what they're doing who worry us.