Rifle jam on Range

Sparks

Arf!

shc1

Oh, give me the d@mn thing already. I'll clear it.:D

Kryten

Sparks wrote:

To me, ISSF is the most challanging discipline I can do, and so it's what I think of when I think of target shooting.

Challenging is an understatement. 25 Meters, single handed with a 22 pistol, bloody difficult. And when you saw the scores the guys were putting up in Zagreb recently, it is unbelievable.

Clare gunner

Kryten wrote:

Not True,
Most semiautomatics fire from a closed bolt, and are fitted with an extractor and ejector. Tell us the model of semi which uses your description. Some full autos do fire from an open bolt position, ie Gustaf SMG, Bren LMG, GPMG and heavy barreled version of the Steyr, and lots more....
But for .22semis most fire from a closed bolt.

I can think of 3or4 .22 rifles that did fire from an open bolt.
None are made anymore [for obvious reasons],but they were the French Unique semi .22
The German Landmann .22[looks like the famous AR7 with a wood stock and finned barrel].Or was it their copy of the M1 carbine?? A Mauser model from the 1950s,and a Savage .22 from the 1930s.

oldzed

Kryten wrote:

Challenging is an understatement. 25 Meters, single handed with a 22 pistol, bloody difficult. And when you saw the scores the guys were putting up in Zagreb recently, it is unbelievable.

Great , we know its hard , but not as hard as shooting a 1500, try weak handed with a 9mm at 50m .
but no , issf is the toughest discipline of all.......not

Sparks

not as hard as shooting a 1500, try weak handed with a 9mm at 50m .

It's not the same thing oldzed. You shoot some of the 1500 at 50m, but it's on a B27 target not an ISSF one. You could fit six ISSF ten-rings inside the B27's ten ring. And in 1500, you're not shooting unsupported - you're talking six shots prone, six sitting, and then six standing with one hand and six standing with the other - but in both those cases, you're standing with your hands braced against a post!

versus

It's just not a good comparison - you're not talking apples and oranges here, but chalk and cheese.

rrpc

oldzed wrote:

I do believe rrpc has never owned or shot a 1022 as if he had he would not have written that rubbish on how to operate them

Oldzed, before you start insulting me, it would behove you to read my posts in ther entirety, I never said I fired a 1022, in fact I specifically excluded them from my discussion (see post No. 32).

I was also discussing RyderCup's problem in particular, and was pointing out that I had come across similar problems with semis in the past (the long dead past for that matter as I haven't owned or fired a semi in almost 20 years)

oldzed wrote:

so rrpc owned an open bolt 1022 machinegun ?? I doubt it

Where did I say that? In fact I never even discussed the 1022, other than the brief mention I made of it in the post referenced above.

oldzed wrote:

my point was he had no idea how the gun operated so that it was rubbish for him to suggest that he had owned several, he may as well have said theres no need to close the bolt on a bolt action rifle as it would close itself when you pulled the trigger.

Sigh.. never said I owned a 1022, in fact the only semi I actually named as having owned was a Unique (which is an open-bolt semi). The only reason I named the Unique is because it's the last one I owned and the one which put me off semis for life.

But hey, hope your shooting is better on the range than it is on here!

Vegeta

so you gave up on semi autos because of a bad experience you had 20 years ago.

way to hold a grudge

rrpc

Vegeta wrote:

so you gave up on semi autos because of a bad experience you had 20 years ago.

way to hold a grudge

Is this the remedial thread?, I owned three at various times up to almost 20 years ago, the last one was the Unique. They all had various problems, and they just weren't accurate enough.

RyderCup's difficulties shows that some of those problems haven't gone away.

But hey!, keep flaming me if it makes you feel better

Sparks

C'mon lads, surely the non-fullbore, non-ISSF shooters shouldn't argue so much...

Vegeta

rrpc wrote:

Is this the remedial thread?, I owned three at various times up to almost 20 years ago, the last one was the Unique. They all had various problems, and they just weren't accurate enough.

RyderCup's difficulties shows that some of those problems haven't gone away.

But hey!, keep flaming me if it makes you feel better

Flaming you???? that's not a flame

I am saying that letting outdated technology define your view/outlook of more modern versions is not the best approach to any aspect of life

Is this the remedial thread?

Well you're in here, so i guess so

rrpc

Vegeta wrote:

I am saying that letting outdated technology define your view/outlook of more modern versions is not the best approach to any aspect of life

And I said: "RyderCup's difficulties shows that some of those problems haven't gone away".

And oldzed while trying to prove me wrong about the accuracy limitations of semis, proved me right by describing the mods on his 1022.

Well you're in here, so i guess so

Right back at ya

Vegeta

rrpc wrote:

And I said: "RyderCup's difficulties shows that some of those problems haven't gone away".

cos he is using the same outdated technology

And oldzed while trying to prove me wrong about the accuracy limitations of semis, proved me right by describing the mods on his 1022.

I never said anything about accuracy of semis, why you bringing that up.

Right back at ya

Why, cos the first time ya said it, it mightn't have sunk in

civdef

Yeah well, yeah well, yeah well.....yer ma!


Shall we try and raise the level of debate a bit?

Vegeta

civdef wrote:

Yeah well, yeah well, yeah well.....yer ma!


Shall we try and raise the level of debate a bit?

"your ma" is actually part of my sig

well its a crap outlook and attitude to have, 20 years ago my open bolt semi was crap so now closed bolt semi autos which work completely differently are crap.

Every semi auto gets the odd jam be it a shotgun with a light load, a pistol with certain types of ammo. Would i go as far as condemning semi auto pistols and shotguns. Hell no!!

Fair enough semi autos are not accurate enough out of the box for what some people want, i can respect that.

To ask if a person is remedial because they have a differing view/ outlook than you reflects very well on that persons attitude. :rolleyes:

rrpc

Vegeta wrote:

Well its a crap outlook and attitude to have, 20 years ago my open bolt semi was crap so now closed bolt semi autos which work completely differently are crap.

Crap, crap, crap I didn't say that closed bolt semis were crap, just that there were problems with semis, and obviously some have not gone away.

Every semi auto gets the odd jam be it a shotgun with a light load, a pistol with certain types of ammo. Would i go as far as condemning semi auto pistols and shotguns. Hell no!!

I didn't condemn anything, I pointed out that these problems do occur, and to my mind make them unsafe in certain circumstances.

Fair enough semi autos are not accurate enough out of the box for what some people want, i can respect that.

So why was I attacked for stating it?

To ask if a person is remedial because they have a differing view/ outlook than you reflects very well on that persons attitude. :rolleyes:

It wasn't a statement aimed at peoples outlook or viewpoint, rather on the inability of people to read my posts properly, and to then rubbish misquoted statements of mine, or in oldzed's case to make one up entirely and then rubbish it. How would you describe that?

oldzed

give it up vegeta , I agree with you wholeheartedly but there is no chance of winning an argument with the issf fundamentalist party as they have too much time on their hands to write crap on boards. And while everyone else was talking 1022s rrpc seems to have been talking about some piece of SHxxe he owned in the middle ages . Im waiting on misfire stories due to flint problems and the pain in the ass that the damp irish climate has on his powder flask.
Anyway Im going back to sleep ,

zed

Vegeta

rrpc wrote:

Crap, crap, crap I didn't say that closed bolt semis were crap, just that there were problems with semis, and obviously some have not gone away.

Yes but you are calling them unsafe, saying you don't like them and calling them inaccurate. I think you have never used a closed bolt semi auto (which the majority are today) and therefore cant comment on them in any way shape or form. The OP was talking about an open bolt semi auto so obviously the problems have not gone away. Just like if i buy a 20 year old car it probably wont have heated seats or power steering

No, you can't, the bolt (action) in a semi doesn't withdraw the empty case as in a bolt action, it's the recoil that both ejects the case and reciprocates the action.

That's why I don't like them.

I didn't condemn anything, I pointed out that these problems do occur, and to my mind make them unsafe in certain circumstances.

So again you are calling them unsafe, inaccurate and stating you don't like them. Sure you didn't condemn anything :rolleyes:

condemn: express strong disapproval of

Every firearm is unsafe in certain circumstances

So why was I attacked for stating it?

I never once contested that semi autos are not as accurate as target rifles out of the box. Take it up with the person who did

It wasn't a statement aimed at peoples outlook or viewpoint, rather on the inability of people to read my posts properly, and to then rubbish misquoted statements of mine, or in oldzed's case to make one up entirely and then rubbish it. How would you describe that?

I find it hard to misquote someone when they type their replies. Its not like i am twisting a phrase you have spoken. You clearly typed

"I do not like them" when speaking about semi autos (i quoted you from page 2 reply number 24) which according to you is based on 20 year old experiences. Again your words.

You also were unaware of how the majortiy of modern semi autos work i.e. closed bolt

I find anyone's opinion hard to take if they are ill informed and out of date.

Saying all that i am not defending semi auto rifles at all, the problem i have is with your outdated attitudes towards them

You may post again saying tht the OP is having these problems today so its not outdated, ask me to read your post and I will post saying jams (which this post is about) occur in every type of semi auto from time to time so should we do away with all semi auto weapons

Sparks

the issf fundamentalist party

We have one of those? Damn, I've missed the meetings

Clare gunner

Ok not too much about the 10/22.
But would you rate the National match AR15 used in Camp Pery matches as inaccruate?
How about the Hk PSG1,The Springfield armoury M1a1,The Barrett light 50,or the Dragunov 7.62??All of those are semi auto closed bolt target rifles,and are well capable of holding their own with bolt action rifles.

oldzed

Oh it has to be the Walter WA2000, the most accurate semi ever made and a bargain at around 10k.

Still wont be accurate enough for the issf fundamentalists though. Good to see that their agm looks like it will be all out jihad.

zed

Sparks

The WA2000 would be fine for ISSF 300m oldzed (not for 50m obviously as it's a 7.62mm not a .22), though you could only load one round at a time into the magazine because of ISSF rules, so using a semi-auto wouldn't do you much good. In fact, you couldn't use a semi-auto as a semi-auto in any of the ISSF rifle disciplines because of the rules.

And if you think the NTSA AGM is a bit adversarial, I'll remind you of the LRRAI-NRAI dispute...

Clash

Actually, isn't the biathlon an ISSF discipline? It's certainly an olympic one and semis are used in that competition.

Although I'm not sure if the fundamentalist bunny-gunners would need snow guards on their foresights.:D





Actually, I forgot, they don't use foresights for bunny-gunning, they need a telescope.....

Sparks

Biathlon isn't ISSF, it's IBU (International Biathlon Union). (And olympic pentathlon is UIPM, the Union Internationale de Pentathlon Moderne). And the biathlon lads do have snowguards on their foresights!

Hezz700

Reading this stuff is much more fun than watching "Fair city":D

Hezz;)

cushtac

Reading the obituaries is more fun than watching Fair City.

Clare gunner

Going to any type of shooting is much more fun than watching Fair[Sh]city:D .
Actually ,watching the paint dry is more exiting.

Clare gunner

oldzed wrote:

Oh it has to be the Walter WA2000, the most accurate semi ever made and a bargain at around 10k.

Oh boy! Thats cheap olzed.Last one I saw for sale on the net was $25K:eek: