clocked cars

paf

hi, just wondering if anyone has ever been caught by purchassing a clocked cars, or as the legal profession would say, you purchassed a car and have issues with the mileage on display, would like to hear any and all exsperiences, so i can have some kind of database which i will publish to inform people of these garages, from talking to people already certain garages are coming up over again, like some garages near the red cow and in tallaght

esskay

I can see it now...........


"In light of legal proceedings issued by [insert garage name], we have been advised that there is to be no further discussion of [insert garage name] or vehicles sold by [insert garage name]"

mike65

Whoa there! I'd be interested to know how one would prove clocking to a legally acceptable level in all cases. If you publish a list of garages and cars sold by them you'll be sued to hell even if you are correct. Do not mention any names here on-line or this resource (boards.ie ltd) could be closed down.

Mike.

paf

first of all i would not be publishing anything on boards.ie, and as far as im aware its on offence under the theft act and also under the sales of goods act, to sell a clocked car,i just hear off some many cases of it thats all ther must be some way of compiling a database of incidents of this kind.

mike65

Its an offence but proving it the tricky bit (its how lawyers run thier yachts!)
and I'm worried that peeps may name garages on a thread like this. Boards.ie is already in a legal case as alluded to above by esskay.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054977406

Mike.

paf

I was talking to someone in consumer affairs about his recently, the burden of proof if consumer affairs are taking a case is with the garage that allegedly sold you the clocked car in the first place, reason being the garage has to make all reasonable checks that this product is safe to sell, and is exackly what it says on the label.

It only takes minute or two to see on a diagnostic machine to see if the car has been clocked and the genuine milage is still recorded in the cpu of the car its not deleted.

If you have been caught report to your local Guards its a criminal offence,then report it to consumer affairs and if the garage is a member of simi report it to them, you can do it online, from what i ve seen so far is the less than reputable Garages will probaly settle with you but it will be at the last minute.

The last think a garage wants is publicity from a court case even if its not proven, i think most people feel theres no smoke without fire.

Mr.Diagnostic

paf wrote:

It only takes minute or two to see on a diagnostic machine to see if the car has been clocked and the genuine milage is still recorded in the cpu of the car its not deleted.

Hi,

That is not quite true. The situation varies with different cars. In some cases the mileage is only recorded in one location. In other cases it is in many locations (highest number I know of being 5) but some of the clockers know this and can change it in all these locations. In my experience, most clockers do leave a trail in Mercs and BMW's without knowing it but I would not like to name that trail and educate them. This trail is something that I have discovered and I have never heard anyone else mention it.

HTH

Owen

The majority of BMWs we see in our Dealership that have been clocked are usually UK spec. If anyone is buying a used BMW from a non-franchised Dealer, and the spec is unusually high for the year (Indicating it might be a UK Car), or there's other giveaway signs - like the leather looks like it's 10 years old and the car is only 4 - ask for a test drive, and take it to a main Dealer. We can check the mileage on the key itself (It has an EEPROM inside that stores the mileage independently of the speedo).

Yes, any decent clocker can change the key too, but the majority of the ones we see have been done quickly, and poorly.

paf

is there anything you should look for with the naked eye if its not a bmw

VeVeX

Pedal , steering wheel , Gear knob , Leather gear gaitor excessive wear for milage are tell tail signs. Although in my experiance there are certain marques that wear considerably better on the interior then others e.g VW,Audi & BMW to name three. On these cars it would be very hard to tell an extra 30k.

Also non digital speedos the number alignment being off would also raise questions.

If the truth be told when done right you will never know the car has been tampered with.

layke

I know of at least one garage that pays another smaller garage to clock cars.

It's a lot more common then you think.

zilog_jones

With regards to mechanical odometers, is dodgy number alignment a guarantee that it's been clocked, or can it occur normally?

setanta5

If you are going to buy a car, would you recommend paying say the AA to check it over first? Could they tell you if it has been clocked or tampered with in any way?

upsfan

If the car has been imported from the UK at some point (and as alluded to these can be high-risk for clocking) you should get a HPI report which will list previous mileage. It's actually an advantage of buying a UK import. Really should have the same thing here.

Seth Brundle

mike65 wrote:

Whoa there! I'd be interested to know how one would prove clocking to a legally acceptable level in all cases.

ned78 wrote:

The majority of BMWs we see in our Dealership that have been clocked are usually UK spec...

I know with newer BMWs that the mileage is stored in a number (3?) of locations around the cars computer network.
Clocking is AFAIK easy enough to diagnose. If the mileage doesn't match across the locations then a dot appears beside the digital mileage display

layke wrote:

I know of at least one garage that pays another smaller garage to clock cars.

Can you prove it? Have you reported it?

kluivert

paf are you a reporter for the Irish Times by any chance.

paf

kluivert wrote:

paf are you a reporter for the Irish Times by any chance.

I can guarentee you i am not a reporter of any description,just someone that doesnt like to be taken for a "ride" if you ll pardon the pun and i hate it when people are trying to make a quick crocked buck by stealing (and thats exackly what it is) your hard earned money.

Id also love to get those details of the two garages the big one thats employing the small one to clock the cars, as i said previously paf10000@hotmail.com for those details,and of course proof

Fey!

WRT BMW clocking: I felt that my interior was very worn for the 69k on it when I bought it, but put it down to town driving (driver jumping in and out all the time).

However, the key I got with the car and the new key I bought off a BMW dealer both show 100,000+ miles on the dealers diagnostic, while my odometer now shows 85,000. That said, the mileage on the key is the same on every visit, whilst the odometer mileage continues to increase.

Mr.Diagnostic

Hi Fey,

The mileage on the key is written from the EWS (immobiliser). Since your new key shows the higher mileage then the EWS must too.

HTH

zilog_jones

Paf, you do know that displaying your email address on a web page is probably the biggest cause of email spamming? I can guarantee that address will be riddled with crap in the next few months

Darragh29

paf wrote:

first of all i would not be publishing anything on boards.ie, and as far as im aware its on offence under the theft act and also under the sales of goods act, to sell a clocked car,i just hear off some many cases of it thats all ther must be some way of compiling a database of incidents of this kind.

I'm involved in a case at the moment where a person bought a car and it has been discovered that the car was clocked and this can be proven. What cannot be proven is who clocked the car, the previous owner or the garage that sold it (car was a trade in for a new car). Figure that out...

paf

be worth it if it stopped one or two people from purchassing a clocked car.

paf

Darragh29 wrote:

I'm involved in a case at the moment where a person bought a car and it has been discovered that the car was clocked and this can be proven. What cannot be proven is who clocked the car, the previous owner or the garage that sold it (car was a trade in for a new car). Figure that

Its not an offence to clock a car,its only an offence to sell a car thats clocked,not need to worry as far as i know about the identity of the clocker

JHMEG

It's not an offence to clock. The offence is not to disclose it when selling it on. AFAIK the law is about to change tho.