Where have all the football supporters gone?

johnos

Superb, long overdue piece in the Sunday Tribune on the bizarre nature of our obsession with other people's football, and the collapse in support for domestic soccer.
Trib site requires (brief, worthwhile) registration.

el rabitos

you can have as many articles and as many people moaning about people liking english football as you like, the only attraction of eircom league football is that you can go to a local stadium and see a football game.

the attraction of the premership is that you can go to a stadium and see a football game with players that are actually good and of a high standard, thats the attraction.

the fai/irish government need to take a leaf out of the french football federations book and develop and a school of excellence or a few in a couple of different area's of ireland, some place that takes kids off the street and develops the talent thats out there and then feeds it to the eircom league, because theres no doubt that for a country of our size theres always been plenty of talent. its just a matter of giving the talent a good place to go. god knows theres plenty of facilites and good set ups out there to help anyone that wants to play gaa

the eircom league will never be the premiership, but it can be similar to the dutch or french league in that it becomes a good feeder league and offer the talent in it a good platform to showcase what they have and ultimately benifit the national team.

moaning in some newspaper doesnt help the situation

johnos

el rabitos wrote:

the attraction of the premership is that you can go to a stadium and see a football game with players that are actually good and of a high standard, thats the attraction.

You can't have read the piece if you make that argument. As it says, English League Two has lower standards, but higher attendances. I've taken a few juicier snippets and put them here.

GuanYin

I posted on this in a thread on wes houlihan before, so excuse me if this seems familiar. There it was being argued why we can't compete with the scottish league in terms of fans and players. To me, the problem is inherentin the infrastructure of our game and even our country. So the big question should be "Why don't we compete with the scottish/english leagues" and many people have asked it before.

There are plenty of reasons. We don't have a full professional league is the first and foremost issue - clubs don't have the money to compete with british teams, we don't have the same level of support for players and our football association is, by and large a shambles. We don't have quality stadia, facilities or resources - we don't even have a national stadium.

That aside, there is more to it than just money. Look at the geographical distribution of teams from the Irish league. 11/20 teams (or less now with Dublin City gone) come from the "Dublin Commuter Zone" - with the remaining consisting of to in Cork and the rest scattered. Look closer and see that most of those Dublin teams are in the top flight. How do create a level of community support more than 5,000 fans strong when there aren't that many soccer supporters in the locale? How does a 15 year old from Nenagh or Youghal get to a match? So these kids pick another sport, or watch the PL on tv and so do their friends and the eL loses fans by the thousands like this.

In Dublin, you have the opposite problem. Too many clubs competing for too few supporters. Lets not forget the large amount of soccer fans (and other people) in Dublin that don't come from Dublin, so you only have the local community. Unlike the rest of Ireland, commuting to matches isn't a problem. Someone from Stillorgan could quite easily make it to Dalymount for a match. But as it is, the area is saturated with maybe 3-4 teams he/she could go to. *IF* there were only 2-3 teams in Dublin, then *perhaps* we might see more support at them, we may see them financially sound enough to build something akin to Celtic Park and yes maybe Irish clubs as big as Celtic or Rangers. As it is, geographically, to few fans spread to thin.

Soccer is built on the fans, the fans make communities, the fans support communities and soccer teams are part of communities. In Ireland you either have soccer clubs that cover too wide an area or too small an area. Although I don't think at this stage it would work, the only way Irish Soccer will ever compete is if the league was expanded, professionalised and financed. Hell, even sell the rights to sky if it improves the game (or is that already done?).

So what are we left with? I'd say the way to go is to invest heavily at grass roots level (as they are doing), expanding the leagues, maybe by another division or two and having more clubs outside the Dublin area. To be honest, I think there are too many Dublin based clubs - if one or two were to re-locate, perhaps Dublin soccer would have a better chance. It sounds nuts, especially since there arent enough people at games as it is, but taking the hit initially, may reap long term dividends.

Finally, Irish infrastructure would need to change, people would need means of getting to and from stadia, we'd need better stadia, better facilities, and more money inthe game itself. Even in Drogheda or Dundalk, how can 15 year old lads from 8 miles down the road make it to a match when there are no buses or restricted services (for getting home after)?

As it is the League of Ireland is set up to fail

el rabitos

johnos wrote:

You can't have read the piece if you make that argument. As it says, English League Two has lower standards, but higher attendances. I've taken a few juicier snippets and put them here.

in fairness, who cares how many people go see english division 2 football, many of those clubs have a history of being in the top tier of english football.

the fact is, the english fa doesnt have to look to division 2 for selecting their international side.

i'm talking about improving the eircom league, as it stands the premiership and england are developing and supplying 99.9% of the talent for the national side. thats not right, and the only way to fix it is to start developing at the grass roots.

improve the level of talent and in turn there will be more people wanting to see the talent play

The Muppet

johnos wrote:

Superb, long overdue piece in the Sunday Tribune on the bizarre nature of our obsession with other people's football, and the collapse in support for domestic soccer.
Trib site requires (brief, worthwhile) registration.

They haven't gone anywhere , they were never there in the first place and never will be until The FAI whos job it is to promoted football in this country get their act together.

There have been a couple of threads here and articles in the paper about an element of hooligans who have attached themselves to certain clubs causing trouble and criminal damage to cars etc. I understand its only a minority causing trouble but unfortunatly as long as that minority make the headlines like they did recently with their orchestrated gang fights in Dublin people will to stay away from football games.

KdjaCL

Johnos we need to follow the Irish PL fans mentality and support a big club with good players who are winning stuff. So im going with Chelsea but maybe Pool not sure they have a good squad of superb players but chelsea have more money to buy better players so if i support them i technically get more value for my money.

But Chelsea a flash in the pan so maybe supporting pool would be better in the long run as they have a decent team every 15 years or so.

.....decisions......... decisions....... Picking a good club with millions of pounds of quality players is hard, however did everyone else make their decisions......

Can we subscribe to one and if we like the quality on offer and the standard of seating in the stadium for a small amount of time ? Like a test versions or do we have to go all in with our choice of compan....club?


kdjac

el rabitos

KdjaCL wrote:

Johnos we need to follow the Irish PL fans mentality and support a big club with good players who are winning stuff. So im going with Chelsea but maybe Pool not sure they have a good squad of superb players but chelsea have more money to buy better players so if i support them i technically get more value for my money.

But Chelsea a flash in the pan so maybe supporting pool would be better in the long run as they have a decent team every 15 years or so.

.....decisions......... decisions....... Picking a good club with millions of pounds of quality players is hard, however did everyone else make their decisions......

Can we subscribe to one and if we like the quality on offer and the standard of seating in the stadium for a small amount of time ? Like a test versions or do we have to go all in with our choice of compan....club?


kdjac

dude, you make it sound like successful clubs dont deserve fans

its not liverpool or chelseas fault that boh's or shels dont have training academys

thebaz

Dublin needs a quality football club that can challenge in the Champions League, to do this i think they would need to get into Premiership or Scottish league. Ireland on its own can not expect to run a fully professional league, can the FAI run anything ?
The fanbase for football in Dublin is huge , but kids and many adults want superstars , and if America can not attract superstars and develop a league what chance have we ?
In the next 5 years something will happen , where a consortium will develop a quality professional team in Dublin, with the aim of winning Champions League, I'm sure talks have already commenced . Look what happened with Munster and the rugby, and even the creation of team Leinster .
The important thing is the fanbase is here to support a top professional football team.
In its current state you can not compare the Premiership with Eircom League, maybe Division 1 , but I would say Forest would beat most Eircom teams , having watched both.

KdjaCL

thebaz wrote:

In its current state you can not compare the Premiership with Eircom League, maybe Division 1 , but I would say Forest would beat most Eircom teams , having watched both.

Yet most irish PL fans do, i often wonder about the intelligence level of anyone who does compare EL vs PL.


kdjac

The Muppet

KdjaCL wrote:

Johnos we need to follow the Irish PL fans mentality and support a big club with good players who are winning stuff. So im going with Chelsea but maybe Pool not sure they have a good squad of superb players but chelsea have more money to buy better players so if i support them i technically get more value for my money.

But Chelsea a flash in the pan so maybe supporting pool would be better in the long run as they have a decent team every 15 years or so.

.....decisions......... decisions....... Picking a good club with millions of pounds of quality players is hard, however did everyone else make their decisions......

Can we subscribe to one and if we like the quality on offer and the standard of seating in the stadium for a small amount of time ? Like a test versions or do we have to go all in with our choice of compan....club?


kdjac

Better Still why not let eveyone make up thier own mind about what team they want to support instead of harping on about the crap that is served up in The Eircom league and making out Irish people who support English/Scottish team are in some way being unpatriotic.

The EL is a disgrace, a game abondoned because someone forgot to book a ref for example , where else would you get it. It's joke, I dont have any problem with anyone settling for the mediocrity of the EL . Some football fans have higher standards than others and like to watch quality football. So leave off with the jibes about money etc and let every one make their own decisions.

Villain

This topic seems to be cropping up a lot lately.

The standard of the Eircom League imo ranges from very poor to poor, now having said that if there was an eircom league club in Carlow I would support them god knows I've been supporting Villa for years and nots for the ammount of trophies we have been winning.

Blackjack

I have to agree with the Muppet here, although I do think that if the League is improving. The worrying aspect is the element of the firms getting involved and turning the games into an excuse for abuse and fights.

Personally I've only ever been to 1 Eircom League Game (in 94 or 95, Athlone town versus someone or other), 1 Premiership game (Spurs vs Boro) and 3 SPL games. I've been to see Ireland live (at home and abroad) more than 6 times. I would not really call myself a huge Soccer supporter, but more of a "Fan" as the description on the Bohs website gives.

What I do think needs to happen is to get Setanta more interested in the League. Keeping it on TV3 only serves to keep it's interests isolated to Ireland, without any availability to other markets. The Setanta cup was hugely successful from what I can see. Replicate this for the league, and the additional exposure as well as this being available to other countries would do no end of good.
While I can never see the League competing with La Liga or the Premiership, I do think that it's quite comparable to the SPL without the Old Firm. Interest needs however to be generated for people to become supporters, and buying Jerseys and going to the games, even if it's only the odd game.

leeroybrown

I don't bother with domestic soccer. Why? Where I grew up there was no domestic soccer team reasonable distance. Even if I had wanted to support a domestic team I would probably have only seen a game or two a year. I ended up supporting an English club because I got to see English soccer regularly. These days the 'damage' is done and I don't see myself supporting domestic soccer any time soon.

Lower division english teams are able to pull in large support bases because they are in decent sized towns and cities, were accessible to people who wanted to go and have built up a big local fan base over they years because of it. There's nothing better for a soccer team than having parents bringing their kids along every weekend. Combine that with the fact that soccer is the primary sport of most of those areas unlike here where you have a big GAA split.

KdjaCL

The Muppet wrote:

Better Still why not let eveyone make up thier own mind about what team they want to support instead of harping on about the crap that is served up in The Eircom league and making out Irish people who support English/Scottish team are in some way being unpatriotic.

The EL is a disgrace, a game abondoned because someone forgot to book a ref for example , where else would you get it. It's joke, I dont have any problem with anyone settling for the mediocrity of the EL . Some football fans have higher standards than others and like to watch quality football. So leave off with the jibes about money etc and let every one make their own decisions.

OMG muppet totally missed the point !!! I dont want any PL fan at any EL game ever they are an embarrassment to their own clubs in england and best left there. They dont go to their own clubs why would they go to anothers.....

What my post meant was that most Irish pl fans only follow "good" teams ie Liverpool Man Utd Arsenal Leeds(at the time) Chelsea etc: But never **** teams. Why is that, most **** PL teams infitley better than EL teams but noone ever supports them?

Btw im now a chelsea fan only cos they are better like, and they have a nice jersey.



kdjac

johnos

The Muppet wrote:

They haven't gone anywhere , they were never there in the first place and never will be until The FAI whos job it is to promoted football in this country get their act together.

There have been a couple of threads here and articles in the paper about an element of hooligans who have attached themselves to certain clubs causing trouble and criminal damage to cars etc. I understand its only a minority causing trouble but unfortunatly as long as that minority make the headlines like they did recently with their orchestrated gang fights in Dublin people will to stay away from football games.

From the article:
Prior to the early 1970s, crowds of up to 20,000 would have attended League of Ireland matches. However, when televised highlights came in, the crowds all but disappeared overnight. In 1971, 21,000 people packed into Dalymount Park to watch a top-of-the-table league clash between Shamrock Rovers and Cork Hibs. By 1973, just a couple of hundred souls could be found on those same terraces...
English football had always been popular in Ireland . . . the exploits of George Best and Manchester United in the 1960s were legendary . . . but Irish people generally had two clubs: their local one that they would watch live and their English one that they would listen to on the radio.

I agree that there is a small but vastly overhyped problem with hooligans infesting a couple of clubs, and sadly Bohs is one of their targets. But that also applies to Scottish and English clubs the thug end of whose support they are aping.

johnos

irish1 wrote:

if there was an eircom league club in Carlow I would support them

Ah now, one step at a time!
That said, I heard it said that football is really big in Kerry and that they could be knocking on the door for a league place.

The Muppet

KdjaCL wrote:

I dont want any PL fan at any EL game ever they are an embarrassment to their own clubs in england and best left there.


kdjac

Was it PL Fans that orchestrated the gang fight at The hill 16 Pub a few weeks ago or that broke car windows outside the ground. You can look a lot nearer home for embarrassments than Pl Fans. If I remember correctly you have posted yourself about experiencing hooliganism advising people not to go to the Bohs Rovers game as there was bound to be trouble.

Embarrasment indeed.

KdjaCL

The Muppet wrote:

Was it PL Fans that orchetrated the gang fight at The hill 16 Pub a few weeks ago or that broke car windows outside the ground. You can look a lot nearer home for embarrassments than Pl Fans. If I remember correctly you have posted yourself about experiencing hooliganism advising peopel not to go to the Bohs Rovers game as there was bound to be trouble.

Embarrasment indeed.

So from the point of irish PL fans only supporting "good" teams, you move to irish hooligans? Books DVDS
Oh it never happens in England. Some nice youtube videos of the The red Army too very recent , odd how they on youtube but not on Skysports or bbc news....oh noes we wouldnt go then.




kdjac

Necronomicon

Oh is it this time of the month again? :rolleyes:

The Muppet

KdjaCL wrote:

So from the point of irish PL fans only supporting "good" teams, you move to irish hooligans? Books DVDS
Oh it never happens in England. Some nice youtube videos of the The red Army too very recent , odd how they on youtube but not on Skysports or bbc news....oh noes we wouldnt go then.




kdjac

Who said it never happened in England? So your defence of the EL hooliganism problem is that it happened in England so it should be acceptable here? Interesting viewpoint but not one many will agree with I think. I know when my Kids ask me can they go to an EL game English hooliganism has no bearing on whether I allow them go or not.

KdjaCL

The Muppet wrote:

Who said it never happened in England? So your defence of the EL hooliganism problem is that it happened in England so it should be acceptable here? Interesting viewpoint but not one many will agree with I think. I know when my Kids ask me can they go to an EL game English hooliganism has no bearing on whether I allow them go or not.

You said embarassment to EL fans regarding hooliganism, are you not embarassed reading the above links? I dont defend anything EL related football or fanwise as i have stated, i dont want any Irish Pl fans at Pats games (go to Shels or somfin). I dont whinge about irish PL fans supporting far away teams as i dont give a **** really. The dont go to their "chosen" "good" clubs why would they go to their local "crap" one. They are usually clueless muppets who only spot an offside after 3 replays and come on here with regurgitated Dunphy/Gray opinions and pass them off as their own. Hardly what you would call a fan............Hardly what you would want to see supporting your own team and booing and demanding the manager be sacked after a 20 game unbeaten run.

Still lost as to why Irish fans only follow "good" clubs....well im not really its plainly obvious involves a band and a wagon.


kdjac

johnos

KdjaCL wrote:

i dont want any Irish Pl fans at Pats games

This is where I part company with you KdjaCL.
Let's face it, Irish PL fans more or less covers Irish football fans, full stop. So any Irish PL fan is more than welcome at Bohemian FC to dispel for themselves the ignorant notions that it's 'crap football' watched exclusively by hoolies.

Villain

Well Kdjac but your post above doesn't apply to me at all or other Villa fans I know, nor does it apply to many other people I know who support PL clubs.

KdjaCL

irish1 wrote:

Well Kdjac but your post above doesn't apply to me at all or other Villa fans I know, nor does it apply to many other people I know who support PL clubs.

Sadly i read almost every post on here and its very true of most posters here and numerous people in RL.


kdjac

Hobart

The Muppet wrote:

Better Still why not let eveyone make up thier own mind about what team they want to support instead of harping on about the crap that is served up in The Eircom league and making out Irish people who support English/Scottish team are in some way being unpatriotic.

The EL is a disgrace, a game abondoned because someone forgot to book a ref for example , where else would you get it. It's joke, I dont have any problem with anyone settling for the mediocrity of the EL . Some football fans have higher standards than others and like to watch quality football. So leave off with the jibes about money etc and let every one make their own decisions.

Totally agree (waits for the sky to fall in).

KdjaCL wrote:

OMG muppet totally missed the point !!! I dont want any PL fan at any EL game ever they are an embarrassment to their own clubs in england and best left there. They dont go to their own clubs why would they go to anothers.....

What my post meant was that most Irish pl fans only follow "good" teams ie Liverpool Man Utd Arsenal Leeds(at the time) Chelsea etc: But never **** teams. Why is that, most **** PL teams infitley better than EL teams but noone ever supports them?

Btw im now a chelsea fan only cos they are better like, and they have a nice jersey.



kdjac

I have neve seen such blinkered thinking in all my life. I know loads of PL fans who are season ticket holders, albeit mostly Manu fans, but so friggin what? I have supported my PL team since '74, and still support my local EL team (bohs). Why did I start supporting Liverpool? Because they were the first English team that I ever saw on the TV. Simple as that. I also have a soft spot for Luton (for other reasons) and know plenty of people who are as diverse in their adoration, as I am passionate in mine. My dad is a Leeds fan, my best mate a QPR fan, hardly 2 teams challenging for the CL this season now, are they.

I also travel quite a bit each year to see Liverpool (at least 10 - 12 times) ryanair being so cheap and all that.

I simply to not see where you get off with your "I don't want these fans and that fan at such and such". Here's a bit of reality for you. It's not up to you, thank God. Soccer (and all other sports) are there for the enjoyment of many. Not just those so caught up in their closeted world as to be looking out at the forest, and only see trees.

Villain

KdjaCL wrote:

Sadly i read almost every post on here and its very true of most posters here and numerous people in RL.


kdjac

You said

They are usually clueless muppets who only spot an offside after 3 replays and come on here with regurgitated Dunphy/Gray opinions and pass them off as their own.

Do you think that about me then?? How many PL fans post on here? maybe 500 to 1000? surely you can't use their posts to form an opinion of all the soccer fans in this country that support PL clubs.

Also in relation to seeing their teams play, I'm sure every fan would love to, if they could afford it but even given the expense any time I have gone to Villa Park or Anfield there has been a very large number of Irish people at the games.

Your making sweeping remarks about Irish PL fans which imo are unfair and untrue.

KdjaCL

Sweeping generalisations that get proven day after day here and day after day in RL.

It amazes me how Irish PL fans get so upset about someone saying they only follow "good" team because they are good. That they only watch tv football so only base opinion on whats seen after a 3 replays. They always get upset over being asked why they dont go to their teams games.

When its all true, they make sweeping generalisations about a league they know **** all about , they dont go their teams games yet demand managers be sacked, they always wait for the replay to make a decision on something.

90% of Irish PL fans fall well into that category and not a chance in hell i would invite them to Pats.

If search worked i would show some classics from here. My all time favourite RL classic was at a Man U game vs oddly Forest, Forest scored 1st we were in the North Stand with a few hundred Irish fans and one was reading his program when forest scored early, Forest fans went mental Utd silenced (wasnt hard) guy beside me looks up asks "i reckon we will stuff them 5 or 6 nil today" i replied "forest just scored" he looks around and asks "is there replay on somewhere". Finished 4-1 Cantona got 2 crackers.

But im sure he was just a one off.......lol


kdjac

MrJoeSoap

The Muppet wrote:

They haven't gone anywhere , they were never there in the first place

Yes they were. Domestic football was huge in the 60's and 70's.

How many times can we have this poxy ****ing thread?

Töpher

Meh, each to their own. Attacking people won't change nowt, but nor will being nice about it. Simply put these people don't care about Irish football dying - it is a catch 22; PL viewers saying they'll go if the FAI sort out finances for facilities. FAI won't sort it out till PL viewers start going. The end result is gloomy as one won't budge before t'other, and there's only one loser.

My only gripe really is people rubbishing something they know nothing about. I watch virtually every bit of football I can, from Ireland to Italy, and all in between. The games here are for the most part more enjoyable, nothing beats being part of a crowd and bantering on about the game for hours after. Saying "Irish football is shít" without watching a game doesn't make it fact, and doesn't appear to have any basis for forming a solid opinion.

Perhaps the problems is most people don't realise they can do both? The times don't clash, and nor does the viewing of either team. You can take in something like Shels against Derry Friday night, and the Premiership live the next day (3 games often) and the highlights of other games that night, and a game on the Sunday with highlights later on of others, and a game on Monday. Personally, thats along the lines of what I tend to do - although to be honest, only one result will REALLY matter to me. More football means more happiness for me to be quite frank.

Lovely English Club fans eh?
And some more

^^ Just because its not reported here doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Personally, I feel safer in Irish grounds.

Ronan|Raven

thebaz wrote:

Dublin needs a quality football club that can challenge in the Champions League, to do this i think they would need to get into Premiership or Scottish league. Ireland on its own can not expect to run a fully professional league, can the FAI run anything ?

I have read misguided things in my time but this is the best. Shels, Derry, Drogs, Cork, Sligo, Pats, Bohs, UCD, Longford, Bray and Waterford stop competing it is all in hand! we are going to have a "Dublin" club that will play in england or scotland to challenge for the Champions League.

Villain

KdjaCL wrote:

Sweeping generalisations that get proven day after day here and day after day in RL.

Again how can you say it gets proven day after day when so little people post here, I know a lot of people that don't follow EL yet they don't need to see 3 replays and they see their team play once or twice a season in the flesh and see at least highlights of every league game they play.

KdjaCL wrote:

It amazes me how Irish PL fans get so upset about someone saying they only follow "good" team because they are good. That they only watch tv football so only base opinion on whats seen after a 3 replays. They always get upset over being asked why they dont go to their teams games.

When its all true, they make sweeping generalisations about a league they know **** all about , they dont go their teams games yet demand managers be sacked, they always wait for the replay to make a decision on something.

90% of Irish PL fans fall well into that category and not a chance in hell i would invite them to Pats.

90% you reckon?? thats so ignornant its laughable (I mean ignorant in the literal sense) Seriously how can you say 90% of Irish PL fans fall into that category?? I bet I know as much if not more about soccer than any Pats fan, and I bet the 16 guys I played with in the Carlow league on Sunday know the same, why? because they actually play the game week in week out. Yet none of them to my knowledge support an EL side :rolleyes:

The Muppet

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Yes they were. Domestic football was huge in the 60's and 70's.

You mean before TV showed how poor the quality of the product was compared to what was played by our neighbours or is there some other explaniation?

Rant

Surly it couldn't be that those in the position to promote the game were more interested ensuring their first class plane tickets to international games while the players travelled economy , or selling TV rights to a foreign broadcaster so that thousands of irish kids could not see the games live and ruining whatever good will there was between the FAI and our national broadcaster. Forcing our Government to pass legislation so that the Irish nation could watch OUR team play in major tournaments. Sure they got 7(?) million for the right but they did a hell of a lot more than 7 million worth of damage. I could go on, the list is endless and until a competent body is given charge of football in this country it will never be any different.

/Rant

KdjaCL

irish1 wrote:

90% you reckon?? thats so ignornant its laughable (I mean ignorant in the literal sense) Seriously how can you say 90% of Irish PL fans fall into that category??

9 out of 10 posters here and 9 out of 10 people i know gives me 90%

My only gripe really is people rubbishing something they know nothing about. I watch virtually every bit of football I can, from Ireland to Italy, and all in between. The games here are for the most part more enjoyable, nothing beats being part of a crowd and bantering on about the game for hours after. Saying "Irish football is shít" without watching a game doesn't make it fact, and doesn't appear to have any basis for forming a solid opinion.

Spot on.

I bet I know as much if not more about soccer than any Pats fan

Name 4 world cup winners to play in the EL


kdjac

Töpher

The Muppet wrote:

Surly it couldn't be that those in the position to promote the game were more interested ensuring their first class plane tickets to international games while the players travelled economy , or selling TV rights to a foreign broadcaster so that thousands of irish kids could not see the games live and ruining whatever good will there was between the FAI and our national broadcaster. Forcing our Government to pass legislation so that the Irish nation could watch OUR team play in major tournaments. Sure they got 7(?) million for the right but they did a hell of a lot more than 7 million worth of damage. I could go on, the list is endless and until a competent body is given charge of football in this country it will never be any different.

If the FAI is your gripe, then supporting the national team doesn't make too much sesne (assuming you do), does it?

irish1 wrote:

they see their team play once or twice a season in the flesh and see at least highlights of every league game they play.

Fcuk it! Fcuk what I said above! That made me nearly piss myself!

Villain

The Muppet wrote:

Rant

Surly it couldn't be that those in the position to promote the game were more interested ensuring their first class plane tickets to international games while the players travelled economy , or selling TV rights to a foreign broadcaster so that thousands of irish kids could not see the games live and ruining whatever good will there was between the FAI and our national broadcaster. Forcing our Government to pass legislation so that the Irish nation could watch OUR team play in major tournaments. Sure they got 7(?) million for the right but they did a hell of a lot more than 7 million worth of damage. I could go on, the list is endless and until a competent body is given charge of football in this country it will never be any different.

/Rant

They also appointed a totally unexperienced manager to lead our Nation into Euro 2008!!!

MrJoeSoap

The Muppet wrote:

You mean before TV showed how poor the quality of the product was compared to what was played by our neighbours or is there some other explaniation?

People got lazy, television took over and more and more people were content to sit home (or in the pub) watching a better standard of football whilst getting fat.

Villain

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Fcuk it! Fcuk what I said above! That made me nearly piss myself!

Why?

Kdjac you need to meet more people.

Töpher

So, the FAI's incompetences towards the national team don't turn you away from them? You support them through thick and thin, no matter what the evil FAI do?

The FAI's incompetences towards Irish football turns you away from that? You neglect it, and blame the evil FAI for your decision?

Picking and choosing?

Töpher

irish1 wrote:

Why?

Kdjac you need to meet more people.

irish1 wrote:

they see their team play once or twice a season in the flesh and see at least highlights of every league game they play.

Fcuk it. I'm only gonna see the missus once or twice a 9 month period, but I'll call her about once a week for a quick chat - a bit longer sometimes, unless I know she's doing something I really don't care about. But she's mine! Mine mine mine! And she's lucky to have me!

Pigman II

Last week I was talking football (the universal language) with a new employee at my work. I told her the club I supported and she looked at me shocked saying "I never met someone who supported a club here before."

That's where we're at people.

johnos

Einst&#252 wrote: »

I'm only gonna see the missus once or twice a 9 month period, but I'll call her about once a week for a quick chat - a bit longer sometimes, unless I know she's doing something I really don't care about. But she's mine! Mine mine mine! And she's lucky to have me!

LOL!
I really didn't intend to ignite a flame war with this. The article is there in a national newspaper, so it hardly makes sense to ignore it. But one of its principal points is that Irish football fans used to support teams on both sides of the pond. It wasn't either/or then, and it needn't be now.

Villain

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Fcuk it. I'm only gonna see the missus once or twice a 9 month period, but I'll call her about once a week for a quick chat - a bit longer sometimes, unless I know she's doing something I really don't care about. But she's mine! Mine mine mine! And she's lucky to have me!

lol I'm sure most PL fans would travel to every game if they could, I certianly would, but its not fiancialy viable for most.

As I said before if there was a EL team in Carlow I would support them, I enjoy playing soccer every week and I enjoy watching good quality football played by good players. When I refer to Aston Villa I often say my club etc because I buy the clubs merchandise I also subsribe to the club every year so I believe I am like other fans part of the club and I can refer to it anyway I like.

Ronan|Raven

Agree with you Johnos.

Töpher

johnos wrote:

LOL!
I really didn't intend to ignite a flame war with this. The article is there in a national newspaper, so it hardly makes sense to ignore it. But one of its principal points is that Irish football fans used to support teams on both sides of the pond. It wasn't either/or then, and it needn't be now.

Exactly the point I tried to raise earlier. Tried to raise it before with an analogy to women, but that was overlooked as those who do support football here didn't take offence when I said that refusing to look at the glamour babes on tv because you've a woman at home was stupid, but when I said refusing to look beyond the glamour babes and at a woman at home was stupid, people took offence. Meh, sucks eh?

Pepe LeFrits

irish1 wrote:

When I refer to Aston Villa I often say my club etc because I buy the clubs merchandise I also subsribe to the club every year so I believe I am like other fans part of the club and I can refer to it anyway I like.

Careful now, the football snobs association may not let you 'qualify' if you go admitting things like that!

WhiteWashMan

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Exactly the point I tried to raise earlier. Tried to raise it before with an analogy to women, but that was overlooked as those who do support football here didn't take offence when I said that refusing to look at the glamour babes on tv because you've a woman at home was stupid, but when I said refusing to look beyond the glamour babes and at a woman at home was stupid, people took offence. Meh, sucks eh?

yes, its about as intelligent as comparing a brick and a slug.

as for KdjaCL and his delusional sweeping generalisations, all i can do is laugh at the stupidity of some of those statements.

dear oh dear oh dear.

Töpher

Football is often compared to women/sex, when I wrote it I was just trying to use a common reference point.

As for bricks and slugs, you can have whichever you prefer, or both, won't bother me too much. Bricks may be a bit tough the ol' teeth though.

Ronan|Raven

Dont waste your time justifying yourself to WWM Einsturzende.

The Muppet

Einst&#252 wrote: »

If the FAI is your gripe, then supporting the national team doesn't make too much sesne (assuming you do), does it?

I don't agree, The National team is exactly that, my countrys national team (I had no choice in that), it is not the FAI's team.

I do have major gripes with the FAI but I would hardly be unique in that.

WhiteWashMan

Ronan|Raven wrote:

Dont waste your time justifying yourself to WWM Einsturzende.

read:dont waste your time trying to defend a position that is indefensible.

really, comparing a relationship to a season of football is idiocy. nor does it add anything to a debate on being a supporter of football.