Dalymount to be sold in €65m deal

johnos · 05-09-2006 9:16am #1

http://bohsnews.crispynews.com/article/show/17671

Much better deal -- new stadium near Dublin Airport + cash.

empirix · 05-09-2006 9:22am

As a life long Bohs and Phibsboro man, i must admit this is a much better deal and a more importantly a much better site, having said that i will be bitterly dissappointed to see Dalymount go and am still against it

johnos · 05-09-2006 9:34am

empirix wrote:

As a life long Bohs and Phibsboro man, i must admit this is a much better deal and a more importantly a much better site, having said that i will be bitterly dissappointed to see Dalymount go and am still against it

I understand the sentiment, but I think the battle to stay in Phibsboro has already been lost.
€3m+ signing downpayment, and a sponsorship deal too.

Jonny Arson · 05-09-2006 9:38am

Wow, Bohs really are going to be the Irish Chelski aren't they!

_blank_ · 05-09-2006 10:02am

Great for Bohs.

Sixty-five million is going to make them huge.

Ronan|Raven · 05-09-2006 12:04pm

That is surely a spicy meatball.

MrJoeSoap · 05-09-2006 6:10pm

Some amount of money alright. The new manager will have ridiculous funds to play around with.

ronbyrne2005 · 05-09-2006 7:28pm

Champions league here we come. We'll have all the top eircom league and lower english league managers trying to get the job.

KdjaCL · 05-09-2006 8:10pm

Is the councillor going to be against this one?

Is the other guy going to up his offer?

Nice one for bohs, personally i hopes it castleknock

kdjac

Guy:Incognito · 05-09-2006 8:53pm

It'll be sad to see the back of such a grand old stadium. Wouild have been nice to see it developed into a decent all seater stadium that could have been used for the smaller internationals.

finnpark · 05-09-2006 9:00pm

Stekelly wrote:

It'll be sad to see the back of such a grand old stadium. Wouild have been nice to see it developed into a decent all seater stadium that could have been used for the smaller internationals.

Are you joking. Dalymount is a dump.

I think the Bohs boardroom have more sense that the Shels board. I dont think they will go for Fenlon. What has he ever proved at home or abroad considering his club have a 3m a year turnover. One win over a poor Split side.

If the Bohs boardroom are clever then they will save the cash until the new stadium is opened and go for it. There is no point getting a new big manager in while they are at Dalor and spend some of the money as it doesn't make sense to start building a fan base there as they are moving. Bohs should hold onto their cash until the time is right.

Guy:Incognito · 05-09-2006 9:02pm

finnpark wrote:

Are you joking. Dalymount is a dump..

DEVELOPED, you know, as in, done up. (ie so it's not a dump anymore)

Töpher · 05-09-2006 9:05pm

finnpark wrote:

Are you joking. Dalymount is a dump.

I think the Bohs boardroom have more sense that the Shels board. I dont think they will go for Fenlon. What has he ever proved at home or abroad considering his club have a 3m a year turnover. One win over a poor Split side.

If the Bohs boardroom are clever then they will save the cash until the new stadium is opened and go for it. There is no point getting a new big manager in while they are at Dalor and spend some of the money as it doesn't make sense to start building a fan base there as they are moving. Bohs should hold onto their cash until the time is right.

If they did that, they'd have more in the bank too. The interest that'd earn would be immense!

Guy:Incognito · 05-09-2006 9:09pm

Einst&#252 wrote: »

If they did that, they'd have more in the bank too. The interest that'd earn would be immense!

It's hard for a club or a business to just sit on money, especially when they arent winning leagues and a few scribbles on a chequebook could change that. Antway, it's not like their moving to England or cork, it's only up the road. People can drive or get a bus.

Ideally, you build your fanbase as much as possible, so that when you move you get more people following you, plus you have your new catchment area to pull from.

bohsman · 05-09-2006 9:42pm

:d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d

Zebra3 · 06-09-2006 12:05am

finnpark wrote:

I think the Bohs boardroom have more sense that the Shels board. I dont think they will go for Fenlon. What has he ever proved at home or abroad considering his club have a 3m a year turnover.

Not true.

finnpark wrote:

One win over a poor Split side.

You reckon Hajduk were poor? Did you see both legs? And you're right about Nutsy. A couple of titles and knocking 4 sides out of Europe in the last 3 years. Drawing with quality like Depor and Lille. :rolleyes: Beats getting hammered 16-1, that's for sure.

MrJoeSoap · 06-09-2006 3:40am

Finnpark -lvs- Shels tbh

redspider · 06-09-2006 9:43am

This is an interesting move for an LOI club, cashing in the assets as it were and with a prospect of using that bounty as a springboard for development.

One thing I would point out is that the new 10,000 seater stadium should have some room for expansion. There would be nothing worse than if major success did come their way, that it would be hampered by lack of expansion room.

It also remains to be seen that even if with some 'bought success', whether they could gather a fanbase of 10,000 at the new location. The Gypsies have a long tradition at Dalymount and will lose some fans with the move but will gain new ones, especially if they are winning competitions.

I think it would be good to see one of the LOI clubs invest and do well, obviously they would need to be winning the league here, and doing the best ever for an Irish club in the CL or the Uefa Cup.

I had thought that Shamrock Rovers were a club that cashed in their assets in Milltown in the late 80's and that it had failed to invest wisely, but on further reading I see that the owners sold out, got their money but it looks as if they put in very little back into the club. Maybe someone has the details on that.

At least in this case with Boh's, the 450 members that own Boh's are keeping the money in the club. Although, is there a chance that they will take some of the money out? 65m divided by 450 is 120k each or thereabouts and people may want to do a little asset stripping. After all, if you had 120k, would you put it into a football club? maybe not, there are other more profitable investments.

Redspider

johnos · 06-09-2006 10:25am

While it is of course in need of renovation, Dalymount isn't quite a dump. The Jodi Stand (which suffices for most matches just now) is modern and comfortable, with more than decent facilites. I really think some of the comments about Irish football on this board could be a little less kneejerk and a bit more reflective and constructive.
Other stands, Connaught St and Kelly, are in poor repair, but seldom used.
The new stadium is designed to be expandable. Happy days if needed.

PS: my favourite take

ciaran76 · 06-09-2006 10:35am

Great deal I think !
But Harristown is in the middle of nowhere. I think the only Bus that goes past Harristown is the URBus from Blanchardstown to Swords.

I am sure they will set up a good bus route for this ? Oh and no pubs !!!

johnos · 06-09-2006 11:33am

ciaran76 wrote:

Harristown is in the middle of nowhere. I think the only Bus that goes past Harristown is the URBus from Blanchardstown to Swords. !!!

Harristown is beside a Dublin Bus depot! It has several major bus routes servicing it, and it is accessible by a variety of major roads, including the M50. It's also close to the proposed site of a metro station on two of the proposed lines. I don't think we'll need parachute drops.

jd · 06-09-2006 11:41am

It is a few years down the road yet. The number 4 bus is near by, and there will probably be a metro stop within walking distance (between m50 and airport).
jd

MrJoeSoap · 06-09-2006 11:44am

Can anyone show me on Google Earth where the site is?

ciaran76 · 06-09-2006 1:31pm

I just spoke to a person I know who lives out near there and he said there was 2 quite good bus routes the 27B and 83.

The metro is another topic of conversation !!!!

But if it gets the go ahead it would be excellent for Bohs new ground I feel.

bohsman · 06-09-2006 6:56pm

redspider wrote:

At least in this case with Boh's, the 450 members that own Boh's are keeping the money in the club. Although, is there a chance that they will take some of the money out? 65m divided by 450 is 120k each or thereabouts and people may want to do a little asset stripping. After all, if you had 120k, would you put it into a football club? maybe not, there are other more profitable investments.

Redspider

The Bohs board/membership are not allowed to profit from the club, anyone can become a member for 400 or so a year which includes a season ticket. Its similar to other memberclubs around Europe most famous example being Barca with over 100,000 members

gustavo · 06-09-2006 7:04pm

On an aside i hope this is factored into FM 2007:)

applehunter · 06-09-2006 7:11pm

Does this make Bohs richer than the FAI?

redspider · 06-09-2006 7:56pm

bohsman wrote:

The Bohs board/membership are not allowed to profit from the club, anyone can become a member for 400 or so a year which includes a season ticket. Its similar to other memberclubs around Europe most famous example being Barca with over 100,000 members

Thats excellent if its like the Barca model. However, I presume its based on some sort of constitution, and at the end of it some body must own the assets. Like all constututions and regulations, these could be re-written at any time by the members if the members have the authority to re-write them, which perhaps they have. Just thinking aloud here and wondering if such a windfall will warp people's good intentions for the club and turn them into fleecing it. Sometimes money does strange things to people and many people out there would sell their Granny ten times over for some filthy lucre. I've seen it happen to another club (which had nothing to do with football) and which came into a bit of money. The money became more important than what the club was set-up for!

Hopefully it will work out for the best and for football ....

Redspider

johnos · 07-09-2006 9:56am

Indo has three pieces on this today. The most lamentable is http://bohsnews.crispynews.com/article/show/18017, which manages to go all gushy about Dalymount, while at the same time displaying astonishing ignorance of the club that plays there. Bohs are mentioned only for the purpose of a cheap jibe, while the author's brother gets a mention for a schoolboy goal.
Typical.

gosplan · 07-09-2006 10:12am

Just a thought I had on this whole thing.

It should serve to make Bohs kings of the EL for the next few years(or until someone finds a way of getting more cash) but is no one worried that this move is being made too early?

What I'm trying to get at is the fact that Bohs will still be restricted by the EL and until the EL has a higher standing in Europe, which judging from the last few seasons is slowly but surely happening, Bohs can only be a big fish in a small pond.

Does no one-else think that in ten to fifteen years when Irish teams are getting really competitive, European matches are more regular and more people are willing to pay a higher price for tickets that the Bohs board might say 'I wish we had a stadium in Phibsboro now that we could make a packet from in ticket sales or sell for 300 million'

The Rooster · 07-09-2006 10:40am

gosplan wrote:

Does no one-else think that in ten to fifteen years when Irish teams are getting really competitive, European matches are more regular and more people are willing to pay a higher price for tickets that the Bohs board might say 'I wish we had a stadium in Phibsboro now that we could make a packet from in ticket sales or sell for 300 million'

The success or otherwise of Bohs will have no impact on the value of commercial property in Phibsboro, so the 300m issue isnt an issue.

gosplan · 07-09-2006 11:51am

The Rooster wrote:

The success or otherwise of Bohs will have no impact on the value of commercial property in Phibsboro, so the 300m issue isnt an issue.

not sure if I get you here, generally just pointing out that it will be worth more in the future. However everything will cost more then so it probably would be just as useful.

[Jackass] · 08-09-2006 11:02am

Great deal for Bohs and the eL...It's a worrying prospect for all other eL clubs and supporters, but money like that is ridiculos for an eL club.

If they can promise CL and UEFA cup football, which, if predictions come true that they may well dominate Irish football, to players and also pay the wages, a lot of very talented players from very good leagues would be willing to come, notably championship or maybe even lower premiership players in England.

In the grand scheme of things, this can only be a good thing for Irish football, as it could raise the profile of the league immensely, provide unprecidented european progress, which in turn attract bigger sponsors and greater money for all the eL.

Of course, let's not get carried away, I'm only speculating on a best case scenario for them with the long term in mind, and it all depends on the management, or mismanagement of the funds.

Now what I want to know is where and when are Shels going to get our cash cow??

Oh, and on the manager speculation, I wouldn't be suprised if they got Damien Richardson...I think along with Fenlon he is the best manager in the league and may be a suprise target.

Although it makes more sense for them to go for Fenlon, because not only are they getting a great manager, but they're also putting Shels into more trouble in an attempt to knock down a big rival and a top eL team.

redspider · 08-09-2006 11:37am

gosplan wrote:

Just a thought I had on this whole thing.

It should serve to make Bohs kings of the EL for the next few years(or until someone finds a way of getting more cash) but is no one worried that this move is being made too early?

What I'm trying to get at is the fact that Bohs will still be restricted by the EL and until the EL has a higher standing in Europe, which judging from the last few seasons is slowly but surely happening, Bohs can only be a big fish in a small pond.

Does no one-else think that in ten to fifteen years when Irish teams are getting really competitive, European matches are more regular and more people are willing to pay a higher price for tickets that the Bohs board might say 'I wish we had a stadium in Phibsboro now that we could make a packet from in ticket sales or sell for 300 million'

It is true that they could wait, in fact, they will have to wait 5 years before the new place is ready I undertood. But rather than dilly-dally, perhps its better to take now what is possible than wait and see what happens. I get your point, why be the first big-fish. Well, many first big-fish down through te years have managed to do quite well. Celtic and Rangers come to mind. Success begats success, more money, etc.

Being first to the market in many areas can allow you to corner most of that market. Being a follower sometimes allows you to ride on the back of the coattails of someone that is at the bleeding edge. So, it ca go either way and there is no easy answer. It depends also so much on how the opportunity is managed or mis-managed.

I think any other club in their position would jump at the chance. Of course, whether Bohs are there first or not is another story. Shelbourne may swing a deal. And Drogheda, as far as I can follow, are a club based on money and are spending more than any other club in LOI football, correct that if that's wrong.

The Bohs deal, if the funds remain for football purposes, sounds like a good deal. With property prices increasing though, Liam Carroll will make a pretty penny out of it. If Bohs waits too long there may be a property slump/slowdown, so who knows. I hear there is an unfinished stadium out in Tallaght looking for a team! ;-)

Redspider

bohsman · 08-09-2006 4:19pm

As it stands Dalymount is a planning Zone9 meaning it can only be kept as a clubhouse or turned into a golf course - Carroll is gambling that these restrictions will be removed in 2011 but would be perfectly happy to sit on the land for a few more years. Bohs are currently over 1m in debt so there was little option with the timing of the move although it was nice of the FAI to give us no option - sell 50% of Dalymount to Shels for 5m or 100% to Caroll for 65m hmm.

Drogheda have investors, not too sure how secure that is. If I was a Shels fan I would just be looking for the club to survive and try to rebuild maybe with a few years in the 1st division, any money that comes in from the lease on Tolka will go on a new stadium and the Morton stadium is looking an even worse choice now with us moving to Harristown. Chances are todays news of investors from Dundalk are either interested in Tolka or its a last gasp bluff by Ollie to convince Fenlon to stay.

Unless money comes out of the blue I cant see a second team finding anywhere near that amount of money, if we double our budget to 4m it will push wages up around the league meaning that anyone who wants to challenge will be gambling with their clubs future.

Bateman · 09-09-2006 12:15am

There is talk of a Dundalk-based consortium investing money into Shels, if they got serious money at least Bohs would have some competition in the brave new world.

Bohs members are not the "owners" of the club, nor of Dalymount. They are merely "trustees", or "guardians". No member benefits financially from the deak, although the lads at the top table, well, let's just say that I don't believe that there is a single property deal in all of Ireland that goes through without some kind of money flowing around behind the scenes.

Chucky the tree · 09-09-2006 1:14am

who was the one lad who voted against it?

Bateman · 09-09-2006 1:18am

An ould lad who was one of the first to signal precisely this situation 4 or 5 years ago.

Atlas_IRL · 09-09-2006 1:22am

Real Bohemians tbh

carbon copy

Pigman II · 09-09-2006 10:02am

Is it just me cos I would much rather have 10,000 people watching Bohemains every fortnight than simply be the team that wins the league every year and qualifys for the CL as whipping boy?

As soon as a bit of money appears the most important thing on many peoples minds is CHAMPIONS LEAGUE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE!

I used to think it would be great to sneak into the CL, play Real Madrid, Juventus and Liverpool and come home with some jerseys, memories and most importantly our tails between our legs after a sextet of hidings.

But now I compare it to the National side in the 80's. It was great achievement to finally qualify for something but I guarentee you that if hadn't done as well as we did, had turned up to Euro 88 and WC 90 and lost every game 3-0 then the international side would be just as obscure and relatively unpopular now as they were then.

I think we have to use this money to get the domestic product and the fan-base right first and then think about attack Europe with some sort of a decent chance. You really can't afford to blow it on the biggest stage.

Bohemians has the potenial to be "mini-Dublin GAA" ie where the ground is full, people are talking about upcoming games and you can feel the buzz around town days in advance. This will not happen if all people associate with us is the team that's in Europe all the time but never good enough to compete.

[Jackass] · 10-09-2006 1:11am

I wouldn't entirely agree Pigman.

You're right that any club that is going to sucseed on a european scale (in eL scale that is qualification) needs to have the domestic set-up good. I.E. good fan base, good football and good facilities, but I don't think the two are mutaly exclusive.

I think sucsess breeds sucsess. If an Irish team does well in Europe, people will follow them, the players, club and management get better known and therefore more attractive to go and see in the bread and butter domestic game.

I think facilitys and European sucsess is the exact springboard the eL needs before it can really attract the attendances it desreves.

Also, I agree and Irish side that qualifies for the CL groups would be whipping boys, at first, but the financial implications are so massive that one season could change the club forever. Also, a side that is seen in CL group stages instantly commands much greater attractiveness in the transfer market.

A player in a non-premier league of any country, and even some players who are playing in the top level of european leagues, would probably not pass up the oppertunity to play for a team where they can compete on that stage, if for nothing else, furthering their own career, but if a team could attract enough of the players of that quality, they could maintain qualification the odd year, to regularly and eventually to be competetive in the group stages.

A good example is Rosenburg...very poor league by European standards, but they got a break and that break has made the club a lot richer than any other side in their league, competetive in Europe and most importantly, filling a decent sized stadium week in week out...

Maybe this is the break Bohs and the eL needed (although I wish it wasn't them

) to get themselves into that position..

I think in the long run it's also good for other eL clubs, as it makes the league more well known around europe and also attracts a lot more money and profile to the league domesticly...

But as I said before, I'm only giving a hypothetical scenario, who knows what effect this will have on the game...it could be that extreme, or it could fizzle into nothing on the other extreme, but my guess is it will land somewhere in the middle...

Who knows?

Bateman · 10-09-2006 5:36pm

The first thing that Bohs have to do is get in a mnager who is capable of delivering a league title to the club within 2 years. Should this be Fenlon? Not sure, but it probably will be, regardless.

The second thing to do is to identify players who will win us that league title, the first of what in theory should be many (5 in a row will suffice

). There are several caveats here. Two of the more obvious ones are;

(i) We don't want players moving to the club exclusively for financial considerations. While it will obvsiously be a factor, the hunger for success should be the over-riding factor. The improved wages can be taken for granted but should be based more on bonuses than basic.

(ii) We don't want the club to be paying out transfer fees which line the pockets of our rivals. If, after we assemble the squad that we hope can win the league, we don't have the best defender in the league, or the best midfielder in the league, or the best striker in the league, no matter. It's not worth paying six-figure sums to other clubs in order to help them survive financially. That's not our job.

Given that all of the above has to be done and done right before we can even get our first shot at the CL for over 5 years, thinking about being the next Rosenborg is pie in the sky stuff.

redspider · 11-09-2006 9:14am

Nick wrote:

....
A good example is Rosenburg...very poor league by European standards, but they got a break and that break has made the club a lot richer than any other side in their league, competetive in Europe and most importantly, filling a decent sized stadium week in week out...

Maybe this is the break Bohs and the eL needed (although I wish it wasn't them ) to get themselves into that position..

I think in the long run it's also good for other eL clubs, as it makes the league more well known around europe and also attracts a lot more money and profile to the league domesticly...

I agree with you Nick. Rosenborg is an example of what Bohs could do. It could also effect the LOI teams positively, although in Rosenborg's case I dont see many other teams from there doing well or did I miss that.

I think from an LOI followers perspective, if Bohs do ever get into the CL group stages, it should be seen as a success for the league (although its really a success/bubble in the Irish property market that has propelled it!).

We will all have to wait though and see how this unfurls in the next 5 years.

Redspider

Dalymount to be sold in €65m deal

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