Is the UK a foreign country?

vector

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

...UK...Does it mean that they could legally invade Ireland...

well they could invade Ireland if they wanted to today, just as any country with a large military force can invade another if it wants to, but could they do it "legally", who knows

Victor

The UK is a different country, not a foreign one.

Zebra3 wrote:

I would disagree with your statement of Ireland being a fully independent soveriegn state. How can it be when EU legislation supercedes so many of our laws? We no longer have our own currency or central bank. The reality is that Ireland is little more than a province of a European empire.

We can tell the EU to go stuff themselves, we just choose not to.

Mick86

micmclo wrote:

It's true, the event will be governed by English law.

It can't be governed by English Law no matter what the organisers say or do.

THE NATIONAL PARLIAMENT

Constitution and Powers

Article 15

2. 1° The sole and exclusive power of making laws for the State is hereby vested in the Oireachtas: no other legislative authority has power to make laws for the State.

I'd file the Independent story under Silly Season Fantasy if I were you.

EamonnKeane

The irony of somewhere outside the Pale being part of the UK appeals to me

Actually most of the K Club, including the Ryder Cup golf course, was part of the Pale. The Liffey marks the boundary in this area.

Also, aren't embassies subject to that country's laws?

Blackjack

micmclo wrote:

It's true, the event will be governed by English law.

Source:
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1645736&issue_id=14300

Errrr.... Yeah. Perhaps the Indo is just showing it's true credentials as a tabloid now, with that type of sensationalist clap-trap.

LordSutch

admiralgar wrote:

also the term British Isles has no official or political status, as i was told in an email from dermot ahern. its use by british media is totally pointless but continues.

google 'ireland is not british' and click the wikipedia link and read and also look at what it says about 'british isles'. Sile De Velera would be disowned by Eamonn De Velera after what she said in 2002

The term 'British Isles' is a geographical term very much in existence today throughout the world .........

The term does not imply that you are 'British' or that Ireland is British, but the term does signify a point on the World map showing (The islands off the North West coast of Europe) which includes the island of Britain, the island of Ireland, the Isle of Man, the Channel islands, and all other smaller islands thereof!

"The term British isles is not Political" and as for (wilkpedia) their aim is to change anything and everything that some people disagree with! in other words, if I were to object to the term "The Irish Sea" then wilkpedia may argue that its name could be changed to the "British & Irish Sea", so I say when talking about Geographical terms, leave well enough alone ...............................

redspider

(off topic to the original post)

Hold on a second .....

I have a particular bone to pick about the misnomer that is the British Isles.

It is a major cause for confusion internationally and because of it many people still believe that Ireland (nation) is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UKOGBANI), and many people are to do this day in their school's across China, India and the world still learning that.

It is completely misleading and the two major islands, Ireland and Britain, and the rest of the related cluster, Isle of Man, Faroe Islands, Channel Islands, Rockall, and perhaps even Iceland should be renamed. Perhaps the "European Isles" would be a more appropriate goegraphic descriptor, but I'm sure some people in the EC could come up with some suggestions.

The naming of the islands as the "British Isles" only came about from the political situation at a certain time and the fact that the island of Ireland was ruled from London and England. It worked during that time to a certain degree. But it is now long gone past its best-before-date and should be renamed to something else.

Irish Geography teachers, lecturers, academics Unite! - and lobby your TD's and MEP's for a change.

redspider

oscarBravo

redspider wrote:

Irish Geography teachers, lecturers, academics Unite! - and lobby your TD's and MEP's for a change.

Or, y'know, don't. I mean, meh, tbh.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

My point is fairly obvious

I dont think it is,as I can join the British army if I wanted to(I most certainly dont) and I most certainly am not a citizen of the UK.

Kaiser_Sma

admiralgar wrote:

aurthur the scots & welsh assemblies cant do what they like. they have powers over tax & education but that is as far as it goes.
the british crown is still in full control of them.

aurthur the isle of mann is NOT part of the uk. its an independant country but it is a crown dependancy/principality. they have their own parlaiment called the house of keys and they are fully in control (taxation, law, etc..)

Ireland is a fully independant, soveriegn state.
we are free citizens of ireland and not royal subjects.

The 'british crown' emphisis here is revealing. It's not as if the queen has any effective executive power of these areas, being a royal subject is mearly a choice of title or a flowery piece of meanigless phraseology. Not something to be particularily worried about.

The scots and the welsh are free and without repression, they have as much a say in there own parliments as they do in the houses of parliment.

The people of the british isles are very similar, the thing that keeps them apart and fiercly nationalistic is the butchers apron bestowed apon england. Repeled by a common but passive hatred of the old enemy. People should be looking for the similarities and reveling in our diversties as opposed to magniflying historical differnces. Political ties are already there and symbiotic, but steps need to be taken to wash of the hereditary grudge that seems to push a side the more appealing parts of irish culture.

Kaiser_Sma

redspider wrote:

(off topic to the original post)

Hold on a second .....

I have a particular bone to pick about the misnomer that is the British Isles.

It is a major cause for confusion internationally and because of it many people still believe that Ireland (nation) is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UKOGBANI), and many people are to do this day in their school's across China, India and the world still learning that.

It is completely misleading and the two major islands, Ireland and Britain, and the rest of the related cluster, Isle of Man, Faroe Islands, Channel Islands, Rockall, and perhaps even Iceland should be renamed. Perhaps the "European Isles" would be a more appropriate goegraphic descriptor, but I'm sure some people in the EC could come up with some suggestions.

The naming of the islands as the "British Isles" only came about from the political situation at a certain time and the fact that the island of Ireland was ruled from London and England. It worked during that time to a certain degree. But it is now long gone past its best-before-date and should be renamed to something else.

Irish Geography teachers, lecturers, academics Unite! - and lobby your TD's and MEP's for a change.

redspider

Two very close islands, over half of the land mass and the vast majority of the population is based in britain, it is thus geographically distinguished. Tagging it with iceland or any other will just defuse it's purpose completly, as will naming it something ambiguous and meaningless like the 'european isles'. It has no official significance so whats the problem.

It has nothing to do with the confusion in foreign schools, just that they can't teach kids about every single country especially ones with small populations and (lets face it) with little international significance compared with the big players and the major trouble makers.

I found an old picture atlas i got when i was younger (1991). It gives a short histroy of the area entiled 'the british isles' including ireland gaining it's independence in 1921 and that it's mostly catholic. The box next to ireland reads 'Much of ireland's wealth comes from farming , particularily raising sheep and cattle'
As you can see riviting stuff for a foregin child to learn about in the grand scheme of things.

Blackjack

Kaiser_Sma wrote:

I found an old picture atlas i got when i was younger (1991). It gives a short histroy of the area entiled 'the british isles' including ireland gaining it's independence in 1921 and that it's mostly catholic. The box next to ireland reads 'Much of ireland's wealth comes from farming , particularily raising sheep and cattle'
As you can see riviting stuff for a foregin child to learn about in the grand scheme of things.

thankfully the rest of the country has moved well past the picture from your Atlas from 1991. Maybe this is progress.

Gurgle

redspider wrote:

It is a major cause for confusion internationally and because of it many people still believe that Ireland (nation) is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UKOGBANI), and many people are to do this day in their school's across China, India and the world still learning that.

Yes, thats terrible.
Now, tell us everything you learned in school about Togo. Its history, government, population etc.

The naming of the islands as the "British Isles" only came about from the political situation at a certain time and the fact that the island of Ireland was ruled from London and England.

Yes, in 320 BC they were referred to as the 'Islands of Prettanike', inhabited by the 'Pritani'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_isles
Somehow the 'P' became a 'B' and its all political from there.

GerardKeating

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Does it mean that they could legally invade Ireland during the next world war?

They can legally invade any foreign country, just ask any Iraqi

GerardKeating

Gurgle wrote:

Yes, in 320 BC they were referred to as the 'Islands of Prettanike', inhabited by the 'Pritani'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_isles
Somehow the 'P' became a 'B' and its all political from there.

The origion of the term "Briton" is a reference to the celtic tribes which inhabited these lands during the roman era, so one could argue that the Irish, Scots, Manx, Conish & Welsh (decendants of these "british tribes") are british, but those decended from the anglo-saxon invaders (the English) are NOT. ....

Saruman

The way i see it... and this has nothing to do with law.. just the way i see things... Ireland.. the 26 counties is a single country... seperate from the UK like the UK is seperate from France or Germany... but joined in the same emerging EU superstate... It will happen... some day... I do not see it as an issue...

I also see Northern Ireland as being foreign. Its part of the UK so nothing to do with my country other than sharing a border. To be honest i would be happy of both Britain and Ireland decided they had enough of their complaining and cut ties with NI leaving them to sort it out amongst themselves. Let them be their own country. Either way we are all European so it does not matter at the end of the day. The Sooner we only have one EU flag flying and no more Union Jack or tri colour the better.

Kaiser_Sma

Blackjack wrote:

thankfully the rest of the country has moved well past the picture from your Atlas from 1991. Maybe this is progress.

yes well i'm sure increasing house prices and the smoking ban will put us right back in the school textbooks.
Ireland is a great country, and a succefull one, it just isn't very interesting in the grand scheme of things.

LordSutch

redspider wrote:

(off topic to the original post)

Hold on a second .....
I have a particular bone to pick about the misnomer that is the British Isles.

It is a major cause for confusion internationally and because of it many people still believe that Ireland (nation) is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UKOGBANI), and many people are to do this day in their school's across China, India and the world still learning that.

Irish Geography teachers, lecturers, academics Unite! - and lobby your TD's and MEP's for a change.

redspider

No, no, no, no & no ..........There is no major international confusion about the geographical location that is "The British isles" but there is some confusion here in this country from some people who "Hate" the word British in the name, even though it is a geographical reality (even on RTE)!

ArthurF

ArthurF wrote:

No, no, no, no & no ..........There is no major international confusion about the geographical location that is "The British isles" but there is some confusion here in this country from some people who "Hate" the word British in the name, even though it is a geographical reality (even on RTE)!

I understand that there was a weather presenter removed from RTÉ a good few years ago for referring constantly to the "British Isles".

Correct me somebody if I am wrong but I'd imagine that term was propegated by the British atlas and has spread from there into more common parlance.
The Island of Ireland is not British,though some of it is legally British territory ergo the term British isles should not include Ireland,not since partition anyway.

Mick86

GerardKeating wrote:

The origion of the term "Briton" is a reference to the celtic tribes which inhabited these lands during the roman era, so one could argue that the Irish, Scots, Manx, Conish & Welsh (decendants of these "british tribes") are british, but those decended from the anglo-saxon invaders (the English) are NOT. ....

I agree. So we British should demand the removal of those German usurpers from our territory.:D

Flukey

Of course Britain is a foreign country. It is not Ireland. Just because we speak English too, and we are very familiar with news and media from Britain, it does not mean it is not a foreign country. There is a tendency never to call the USA, Canada or Australia foreign countries. They all are though.

daithimac

similar culture, different nation in other words

redspider

ArthurF wrote:

No, no, no, no & no ..........There is no major international confusion about the geographical location that is "The British isles" but there is some confusion here in this country from some people who "Hate" the word British in the name, even though it is a geographical reality (even on RTE)!

Yes, yes and Yes!

I have heard first hand the international confusion due to the term British Isles. I have been meeting people for decades who think that Ireland is part of the country 'Britain' because of the term. Whether Amercans (not of Irish extraction), people from South America, Chinese people, Indians, etc. Not all of them of course. But remember, even some people in England think that Ireland's head of state is the Queen of England and that we use Sterling as currency. Yeah, I know, but people like that do exist and you would be surprised how many there are.

I am sure that if we asked the UK to change the reference to the Irish isles, then they wouldnt agree, so why should we agree to the two islands or the 6,000 islands or whatever there is being called the British Isles.

There are two islands, geographically, Britain and Ireland and many smaller islands. One simple compromise would be "The Irish and British Isles", very descriptive and non-confusing. I dont care what the new name is, but I am 100% sure that if we held a referendum on it whether to keep the name "British Isles" or not, then it would be rejected.

You will also note that the Irish Governments of every hue since 1921 never refer to it as the British Isles, but to 'these islands'.

Celtic Isles perhaps is another option .... British Isles is well past its sell by date. I am sure the irish Government could force the Uk Government to stop using the term offically through the EU process, if they wanted to.

Redspider

muletide

of course it is and Northern Ireland is also a foreign country

Kaiser_Sma

redspider wrote:

Yes, yes and Yes!

I have heard first hand the international confusion due to the term British Isles. I have been meeting people for decades who think that Ireland is part of the country 'Britain' because of the term. Whether Amercans (not of Irish extraction), people from South America, Chinese people, Indians, etc. Not all of them of course. But remember, even some people in England think that Ireland's head of state is the Queen of England and that we use Sterling as currency. Yeah, I know, but people like that do exist and you would be surprised how many there are.

Theres this kind of confusion for many countries, it's not becasue of the 'british isles' it's becasue of incomplete education. What standardised education system teaches about every country in the world? People world wide suffer from geographic confusion just as many people are ill adept at maths or can't read or write.

I am sure that if we asked the UK to change the reference to the Irish isles, then they wouldnt agree, so why should we agree to the two islands or the 6,000 islands or whatever there is being called the British Isles.

There are two islands, geographically, Britain and Ireland and many smaller islands. One simple compromise would be "The Irish and British Isles", very descriptive and non-confusing. I dont care what the new name is, but I am 100% sure that if we held a referendum on it whether to keep the name "British Isles" or not, then it would be rejected.

Perhaps if the referendum was performed for all the people of the british isles, the 60million britishers may have something to say about keeping the well established name us as opposed to the 4million of us.
They would also probably despute the sense of putting Irish before British.

You will also note that the Irish Governments of every hue since 1921 never refer to it as the British Isles, but to 'these islands'.

If a person from another country came back home to tell his friends that he'd been on holiday to a number of areas in 'these islands', they would definently require further elaboration. This is pointless nationalistic nit picking. Heaven forbid the word 'british' should be utterd in anything other than the strictist context.

Celtic Isles perhaps is another option .... British Isles is well past its sell by date. I am sure the irish Government could force the Uk Government to stop using the term offically through the EU process, if they wanted to.

Very few people (if any) in the british isles are purely celtic anymore. We have interbred with our invaders (vikings, normans, Britons etc.) and the invaders of our invaders ( scandanavians, romans, saxons etc.). While many areas do hold onto aspects of celtic culture, we are more a combination of our respective parts then partially diluted celts.

It's historical differnces that cause pointless outrages like this. People must still have the mistaken subconcious image of an evil john bull reveling in even the slightest undermining of the irish people. Most of the worlds people don't notice or don't care.

Gurgle

Tristrame wrote:

Correct me somebody if I am wrong but I'd imagine that term was propegated by the British atlas and has spread from there into more common parlance.

Gurgle wrote:

in 320 BC they were referred to as the 'Islands of Prettanike', inhabited by the 'Pritani'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_isles
Somehow the 'P' became a 'B' and its all political from there.

Consider yourself corrected.

Gurgle

Gurgle wrote:

Consider yourself corrected.

I meant how the term was propegated.The origin is interesting though as you say because well its devoid of the current politics surrounding the name.

JaysusMacfeck

British Isles me arse. YOU'VE ALL GONE OFF TOPIC!

The replies in this thread haven't confirmed if the UK is foreign or not. Is it a foreign nation under the eyes of the Oireachtas?

British Isles thread is here by the way.

philologos

if it is a different juristiction and it has different laws its a different state to me

redspider

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

British Isles me arse. YOU'VE ALL GONE OFF TOPIC!
The replies in this thread haven't confirmed if the UK is foreign or not. Is it a foreign nation under the eyes of the Oireachtas?

Its off-topic and I'll go to that other thread for the British Isles issue and would suggest that everybody else does too.

In answer to the original question:
> Is the UK a foreign country?

Ireland is a country, a nation, a republic.
The UK is a country, a nation, a queendom(!).

Foreign, if you take the meaning as:
of, pertaining to, or derived from another country or nation; not native

Then, if you accept that UK is one country and Ireland is another country, then by definition, you have answered your own question, the UK is a foreign country to Ireland and Ireland is a foreign country to the UKoGB+NI.


> Is it a foreign nation under the eyes of the Oireachtas?

Of course. Where have you been for the last 90-odd years?

Redspider